is this the correct use of a semi colon?

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wallmart56

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#1 wallmart56
Member since 2008 • 360 Posts

Is this correct? (I will be there in a few minutes; i'll see you then)

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#2 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

No I don't think so.

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wallmart56

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#3 wallmart56
Member since 2008 • 360 Posts

No I don't think so.

airshocker

do you know how its supossed to be used?

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Blacklight2

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#4 Blacklight2
Member since 2007 • 1212 Posts
I think it would be more like "I'll be there in a few minutes; see you then.
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Necrifer

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#5 Necrifer
Member since 2010 • 10629 Posts

I:D...forgot:(

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Salacon

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#6 Salacon
Member since 2003 • 1460 Posts

I believe it is. Technically a semicolon can replace a period whenever you want it to as long as there are related, independent clauses before and after the semicolon. I may very well be wrong, of course, but I think what I'm saying is correct.

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yabbicoke

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#7 yabbicoke
Member since 2007 • 4069 Posts
Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?
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wallmart56

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#8 wallmart56
Member since 2008 • 360 Posts

I believe it is. Technically a semicolon can replace a period whenever you want it to as long as there are related, independent clauses before and after. I may very well be wrong, of course, but I think what I'm saying is correct.

Salacon

i belive your right thank you

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GabuEx

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#9 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Yes, it is. A semicolon serves the same function as a period; the difference, however, is that it is a softer stop that serves to join together two related independent clauses. You can see another use of it in the last sentence. :P

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xTheExploited

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#10 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts
I think so yes. It is connecting two things that could be a sentence. I'm not sure if its fully necessary but I think its correct.
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GabuEx

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#11 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?yabbicoke

No, that would result in a comma splice.

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wallmart56

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#12 wallmart56
Member since 2008 • 360 Posts

Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?yabbicoke
a comma is only used when the word following the comma is: and,but,so,or,for,nor,yet.

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funsohng

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#13 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
grammatically correct, although I don't think I would ever use that in that kind of fashion, never.
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Communistik

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#14 Communistik
Member since 2010 • 774 Posts

I don't know if I would word each clause that way, but yes that is correct.

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VendettaRed07

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#15 VendettaRed07
Member since 2007 • 14012 Posts

Nobody knows the right way to use a semicolon.

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wallmart56

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#16 wallmart56
Member since 2008 • 360 Posts

thanks for the responses everyone; you've been a great help. (yay i used it correctly haha)

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xTheExploited

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#17 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts

[QUOTE="yabbicoke"]Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?wallmart56

a comma is only used when the word following the comma is: and,but,so,or,for,nor,yet.

Thats not exactly true. A comma is used when you are connecting more than one clauses together in a sentence that are related, they're not the same thing but they are related. And, but, so, or, for, nor, yet are normally used instead of commas I think.
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wallmart56

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#18 wallmart56
Member since 2008 • 360 Posts

[QUOTE="wallmart56"]

[QUOTE="yabbicoke"]Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?xTheExploited

a comma is only used when the word following the comma is: and,but,so,or,for,nor,yet.

Thats not exactly true. A comma is used when you are connecting more than one clauses together in a sentence that are related, they're not the same thing but they are related. And, but, so, or, for, nor, yet are normally used instead of commas I think.

I don't know your probably correct grammer makes my head hurt haha

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idk761

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#19 idk761
Member since 2008 • 3229 Posts
I think it is correct, semi colons is used to separate sentences that are closely related to each other. I think...
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#20 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="yabbicoke"]Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?GabuEx

No, that would result in a comma splice.

Did you google up the same site that I did? Just wondering because I had never heard the term comma splice before; lol
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GabuEx

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#21 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="yabbicoke"]Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?xaos

No, that would result in a comma splice.

Did you google up the same site that I did? Just wondering because I had never heard the term comma splice before; lol

Nah, I'm a huge English nerd. :P

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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#22 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Nah, I'm a huge English nerd. :P

GabuEx

Definitely a nerd. :P

Did you start reading G.W.'s book yet?

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UserBane

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#23 UserBane
Member since 2010 • 994 Posts

Semi colons are used to separate two independent clauses, which you have, but why not just use a period? Unless you are going for effect.

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poptart

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#24 poptart
Member since 2003 • 7298 Posts

Use it; wherever you like - just freestyle baby.

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SgtKevali

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#25 SgtKevali
Member since 2009 • 5763 Posts

Yes it is.

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xTheExploited

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#26 xTheExploited
Member since 2007 • 12094 Posts
[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="yabbicoke"]Wouldn't a comma be more appropriate for that?xaos

No, that would result in a comma splice.

Did you google up the same site that I did? Just wondering because I had never heard the term comma splice before; lol

:lol: I was using that site too.
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#27 Joshywaa
Member since 2002 • 10991 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

No, that would result in a comma splice.

GabuEx

Did you google up the same site that I did? Just wondering because I had never heard the term comma splice before; lol

Nah, I'm a huge English nerd. :P

Aha!

It is also proper to use a semi colon in the following example, right?

"Vancouver, British Columbia; Dayton, Ohio; Miami, Florida" (etc etc etc)

...

That was not a sentance, but you catch my drift ;)

Don't call yourself a nerd. Having a strong grasp of the English language is a very noble trait, in my opinion.

Most people seem to lack that "grasp" :P

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Human-after-all

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#28 Human-after-all
Member since 2009 • 2972 Posts

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] Did you google up the same site that I did? Just wondering because I had never heard the term comma splice before; lolJoshywaa

Nah, I'm a huge English nerd. :P

Aha!

It is also proper to use a semi colon in the following example, right?

"Vancouver, British Columbia; Dayton, Ohio; Miami, Florida" (etc etc etc)

...

That was not a sentance, but you catch my drift ;)

Don't call yourself a nerd. Having a strong grasp of the English language is a very noble trait, in my opinion.

Most people seem to lack that "grasp" :P

Yes COMPLEX lists should be fine with semicolons; however, transitional words can also use them. There isn't enough uses of semicolons and periods. Some peoples use of commas gets a little old. Dashes can also be used in complex lists, unless I am mistaken.

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GabuEx

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#29 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Aha!

It is also proper to use a semi colon in the following example, right?

"Vancouver, British Columbia; Dayton, Ohio; Miami, Florida" (etc etc etc)

...

That was not a sentance, but you catch my drift ;)

Joshywaa

Yes, elements in a list which themselves contain commas should be separated by semicolons.

Don't call yourself a nerd. Having a strong grasp of the English language is a very noble trait, in my opinion.

Most people seem to lack that "grasp" :P

Joshywaa

Hey, I'm not necessarily using it in a pejorative sense, but I know so many obscure portions of English grammar that I think the term is appropriate. :P

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SolidSnake35

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#30 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58971 Posts
If it sounds good... I go for it. Grammar follows my rules.
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GabuEx

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#31 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Dashes can also be used in complex lists, unless I am mistaken.

Human-after-all

What, you mean in the sense of, "I've lived in Houston, TX - Miami, FL - Birmingham, AL - and Fargo, ND"? If so, I have never heard of that usage pattern before.

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funsohng

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#32 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

No, that would result in a comma splice.

GabuEx

Did you google up the same site that I did? Just wondering because I had never heard the term comma splice before; lol

Nah, I'm a huge English nerd. :P

huh, comma splice may be a Canadian thing then, we use the term all the time in high school grammar.
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#33 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts

Is this correct? (I will be there in a few minutes; i'll see you then)

wallmart56
Yes, that is correct.
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Human-after-all

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#34 Human-after-all
Member since 2009 • 2972 Posts

[QUOTE="Human-after-all"]

Dashes can also be used in complex lists, unless I am mistaken.

GabuEx

What, you mean in the sense of, "I've lived in Houston, TX - Miami, FL - Birmingham, AL - and Fargo, ND"? If so, I have never heard of that usage pattern before.

I was mistakenly thinking of double hyphen but not for lists, obviously. I saw a double hyphen used one time on something that was almost list-like but I am wrong. Or em hyphen whatever one calls it.

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#35 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Human-after-all"]

Dashes can also be used in complex lists, unless I am mistaken.

Human-after-all

What, you mean in the sense of, "I've lived in Houston, TX - Miami, FL - Birmingham, AL - and Fargo, ND"? If so, I have never heard of that usage pattern before.

I was mistakenly thinking of double-hyphen but not for lists, obviously. I saw a double hyphen used one time on something that was almost list-like but I am wrong.

Can you give an example?

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#36 RogueShodown
Member since 2009 • 2818 Posts

[QUOTE="Human-after-all"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

What, you mean in the sense of, "I've lived in Houston, TX - Miami, FL - Birmingham, AL - and Fargo, ND"? If so, I have never heard of that usage pattern before.

GabuEx

I was mistakenly thinking of double-hyphen but not for lists, obviously. I saw a double hyphen used one time on something that was almost list-like but I am wrong.

Can you give an example?

I've also seen dashes used like a colon, but placed in the middle of a sentence.

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#37 Human-after-all
Member since 2009 • 2972 Posts

[QUOTE="Human-after-all"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

What, you mean in the sense of, "I've lived in Houston, TX - Miami, FL - Birmingham, AL - and Fargo, ND"? If so, I have never heard of that usage pattern before.

GabuEx

I was mistakenly thinking of double-hyphen but not for lists, obviously. I saw a double hyphen used one time on something that was almost list-like but I am wrong.

Can you give an example?

Not sure I am using double hyphen appropriately but: I love roller coasters -- just not when they go in loops -- or straight down. It's used to convey a pause in thought; however, not for lists and I don't know but I think I used it appropriately.

You can use them a few times so sometimes it can look like you are breaking up a complex list of tasks.

I have to mow the lawn -- then maybe clean the garage -- after I get the milk. But I am not entirely sure I have used it correctly. But I have seen it used to make a sentence look like a list but it is really just a break in the thoughts of whoever the writing is meant for.

Also why does GS compress my text together after I submit? I always have to edit it...

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ghoklebutter

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#38 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
Yes; a semicolon is used to join two independent clauses together, which is what you have written.
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GabuEx

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#39 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Not sure I am using double hyphen appropriately but: I love roller coasters -- just not when they go in loops -- or straight down. It's used to convey a pause in thought; however, not for lists and I don't know but I think I used it appropriately.

You can use them a few times so sometimes it can look like you are breaking up a complex list of tasks.

I have to mow the lawn -- then maybe clean the garage -- after I get the milk. But I am not entirely sure I have used it correctly. But I have seen it used to make a sentence look like a list.

Also why does GS compress my text together after I submit? I always have to edit it...

Human-after-all

Ah, OK, I get you. That's mostly used to indicate an aside, which is the technical term for a thought tangentially but not directly to the current train of thought that is inserted into that current train of thought. An example of a correct usage of this grammatical construct might look like this:

"The mayor - he's always such a busy man - has finally agreed to meet with me today about my proposal."

The sentence, "The mayor has finally agreed to meet with me today about my proposal," stands alone as a full thought, and does not require the aside to convey its full meaning. Similarly, the aside, "He's always such a busy man," also stands alone as a full thought, and does not require its containing sentence to convey its full meaning, either. The two here have been put together to combine the mayor's business with his agreement to meet the speaker in order to convey to the listener the additional point that this agreement is particularly noteworthy due to the mayor's constant business.

I don't believe that the examples you provide are a grammatically correct usage of this construct. The aside and the sentence in which it resides must both be full independent clauses that could stand alone as separate sentences. The correct way to formulate your examples would be as follows:

"I love roller coasters, just not when they go in loops or straight down."

"I have to mow the lawn and then maybe clean the garage after I get the milk."

If you want to show noteworthy pauses in dialog in, say, a piece of fiction, that's the job of ellipses. For example:

"I love roller coasters... just not when they go in loops... or straight down."

Dashes can also be used to separate two independent clauses much in the same way as a semicolon can be used, like this:

"OK, that sounds great - I'll see you tomorrow."

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ghoklebutter

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#40 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
That's what you would call a parenthetical clause.
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#41 v13_KiiLtz
Member since 2010 • 2791 Posts
:| meh... Why would you want to use a semi-colon? It contributes nothing of value... use elipses... it gives a much more... dramatic effect... and avoids pointless subjective disputes.... about semantics. ;)
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#42 PS2_ROCKS
Member since 2003 • 4679 Posts
The way I think about it is the sentence after the semicolon expands on the sentence before it. It semi-defines the sentence; at least in the way I use them. I could be wrong all around though; I'm not in engineering because of my grammar skills. Also I type the way I speak; with a liberal use of semicolons. This is stupid; I'm going to bed now.
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#43 Communistik
Member since 2010 • 774 Posts

[QUOTE="Human-after-all"]

Not sure I am using double hyphen appropriately but: I love roller coasters -- just not when they go in loops -- or straight down. It's used to convey a pause in thought; however, not for lists and I don't know but I think I used it appropriately.

You can use them a few times so sometimes it can look like you are breaking up a complex list of tasks.

I have to mow the lawn -- then maybe clean the garage -- after I get the milk. But I am not entirely sure I have used it correctly. But I have seen it used to make a sentence look like a list.

Also why does GS compress my text together after I submit? I always have to edit it...

GabuEx

Ah, OK, I get you. That's mostly used to indicate an aside, which is the technical term for a thought tangentially but not directly to the current train of thought that is inserted into that current train of thought. An example of a correct usage of this grammatical construct might look like this:

"The mayor - he's always such a busy man - has finally agreed to meet with me today about my proposal."

The sentence, "The mayor has finally agreed to meet with me today about my proposal," stands alone as a full thought, and does not require the aside to convey its full meaning. Similarly, the aside, "He's always such a busy man," also stands alone as a full thought, and does not require its containing sentence to convey its full meaning, either. The two here have been put together to combine the mayor's business with his agreement to meet the speaker in order to convey to the listener the additional point that this agreement is particularly noteworthy due to the mayor's constant business.

I don't believe that the examples you provide are a grammatically correct usage of this construct. The aside and the sentence in which it resides must both be full independent clauses that could stand alone as separate sentences. The correct way to formulate your examples would be as follows:

"I love roller coasters, just not when they go in loops or straight down."

"I have to mow the lawn and then maybe clean the garage after I get the milk."

If you want to show noteworthy pauses in dialog in, say, a piece of fiction, that's the job of ellipses. For example:

"I love roller coasters... just not when they go in loops... or straight down."

Dashes can also be used to separate two independent clauses much in the same way as a semicolon can be used, like this:

"OK, that sounds great - I'll see you tomorrow."

Actually, all of your examples are incorrect. You are using hyphens as dashes. As most people who have been through a writing-intensive academic program know, there are three essential types of dashes in writing: the hyphen (though some authorities don't consider this a dash), the en dash, and the em dash.

The hyphen is the weakest; it merely links combinations of closely related adjectives, adverbs, verbs, and prefixes together for convenience and easier understanding. Examples would be, "He is a lonely-looking boy," or, "Turn to page thirty-two." There are many rules for using hyphens, two of which I just demonstrated.

The en dash is about the length of two hyphens, but it is one line. It is a slightly stronger break and is used to create periods of time, length, distance, or connect certain compounds. Examples are, "Read pages 300--320," or "It happened during 1995--1998."

The em dash is about three hyphens long and is used for all of the miscellaneous purposes discussed earlier in this thread. It can set off a separate thought, replace a semi-colon, a colon, or a number of other things. Examples: "I saw John last night---he was really angry," or, "Last time we went there---after john broke his leg climbing---we had fun."

That's a simplistic overview.

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GabuEx

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#44 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Actually, all of your examples are incorrect. You are using hyphens as dashes. As most people who have been through a writing-intensive academic program know, there are three essential types of dashes in writing: the hyphen (though some authorities don't consider this a dash), the en dash, and the em dash.

The hyphen is the weakest; it merely links combinations of closely related adjectives, adverbs, verbs, and prefixes together for convenience and easier understanding. Examples would be, "He is a lonely-looking boy," or, "Turn to page thirty-two." There are many rules for using hyphens, two of which I just demonstrated.

The en dash is about the length of two hyphens, but it is one line. It is a slightly stronger break and is used to create periods of time, length, distance, or connect certain compounds. Examples are, "Read pages 300--320," or "It happened during 1995--1998."

The em dash is about three hyphens long and is used for all of the miscellaneous purposes discussed earlier in this thread. It can set off a separate thought, replace a semi-colon, a colon, or a number of other things. Examples: "I saw John last night---he was really angry," or, "Last time we went there---after john broke his leg climbing---we had fun."

That's a simplistic overview.

Communistik

OK, I called myself an English nerd, but you've just wandered into territory that even I don't care about. :P

A line is a line. Putting two hyphens together to compensate for the fact that no dashes exist on the keyboard just looks goofy.

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#45 Communistik
Member since 2010 • 774 Posts

[QUOTE="Communistik"]

Actually, all of your examples are incorrect. You are using hyphens as dashes. As most people who have been through a writing-intensive academic program know, there are three essential types of dashes in writing: the hyphen (though some authorities don't consider this a dash), the en dash, and the em dash.

The hyphen is the weakest; it merely links combinations of closely related adjectives, adverbs, verbs, and prefixes together for convenience and easier understanding. Examples would be, "He is a lonely-looking boy," or, "Turn to page thirty-two." There are many rules for using hyphens, two of which I just demonstrated.

The en dash is about the length of two hyphens, but it is one line. It is a slightly stronger break and is used to create periods of time, length, distance, or connect certain compounds. Examples are, "Read pages 300--320," or "It happened during 1995--1998."

The em dash is about three hyphens long and is used for all of the miscellaneous purposes discussed earlier in this thread. It can set off a separate thought, replace a semi-colon, a colon, or a number of other things. Examples: "I saw John last night---he was really angry," or, "Last time we went there---after john broke his leg climbing---we had fun."

That's a simplistic overview.

GabuEx

OK, I called myself an English nerd, but you've just wandered into territory that even I don't care about. :P

A line is a line. Putting two hyphens together to compensate for the fact that no dashes exist on the keyboard just looks goofy.

They do exist on the keyboard. For an en dash, hold Alt and push 0150 on the right-side number pad; it's Alt 0151 for an em dash (I think anyway---I haven't written anything law review-worthy recently enough to remember the shortcuts). Or you can create an en dash automatically in Word with two hyphens, no spaces on either side, and a space after the second word. The em dash is an insertable symbol in Word.

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GabuEx

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#46 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Communistik"]

Actually, all of your examples are incorrect. You are using hyphens as dashes. As most people who have been through a writing-intensive academic program know, there are three essential types of dashes in writing: the hyphen (though some authorities don't consider this a dash), the en dash, and the em dash.

The hyphen is the weakest; it merely links combinations of closely related adjectives, adverbs, verbs, and prefixes together for convenience and easier understanding. Examples would be, "He is a lonely-looking boy," or, "Turn to page thirty-two." There are many rules for using hyphens, two of which I just demonstrated.

The en dash is about the length of two hyphens, but it is one line. It is a slightly stronger break and is used to create periods of time, length, distance, or connect certain compounds. Examples are, "Read pages 300--320," or "It happened during 1995--1998."

The em dash is about three hyphens long and is used for all of the miscellaneous purposes discussed earlier in this thread. It can set off a separate thought, replace a semi-colon, a colon, or a number of other things. Examples: "I saw John last night---he was really angry," or, "Last time we went there---after john broke his leg climbing---we had fun."

That's a simplistic overview.

Communistik

OK, I called myself an English nerd, but you've just wandered into territory that even I don't care about. :P

A line is a line. Putting two hyphens together to compensate for the fact that no dashes exist on the keyboard just looks goofy.

They do exist on the keyboard. For an en dash, hold Alt and push 0150 on the right-side number pad; it's Alt 0151 for an em dash (I think anyway---I haven't written anything law review-worthy recently enough to remember the shortcuts). Or you can create an en dash automatically in Word with two hyphens, no spaces on either side, and a space after the second word. The em dash is an insertable symbol in Word.

On the keyboard as in on the keyboard. I'm not going to hold Alt down and press four numbers just to get a symbol that holds absolutely no greater power of communication than the one I can get in a single key press.

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Communistik

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#47 Communistik
Member since 2010 • 774 Posts

[QUOTE="Communistik"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

OK, I called myself an English nerd, but you've just wandered into territory that even I don't care about. :P

A line is a line. Putting two hyphens together to compensate for the fact that no dashes exist on the keyboard just looks goofy.

GabuEx

They do exist on the keyboard. For an en dash, hold Alt and push 0150 on the right-side number pad; it's Alt 0151 for an em dash (I think anyway---I haven't written anything law review-worthy recently enough to remember the shortcuts). Or you can create an en dash automatically in Word with two hyphens, no spaces on either side, and a space after the second word. The em dash is an insertable symbol in Word.

On the keyboard as in on the keyboard. I'm not going to hold Alt down and press four numbers just to get a symbol that holds absolutely no greater power of communication than the one I can get in a single key press.

Lesser intellects require lesser detail, and that's fine. :)

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#48 Suzy_Q_Kazoo
Member since 2010 • 9899 Posts

I believe so! I think semicolons make for some nice eye candy in the midst of text or writing :P

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#49 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Communistik"]

They do exist on the keyboard. For an en dash, hold Alt and push 0150 on the right-side number pad; it's Alt 0151 for an em dash (I think anyway---I haven't written anything law review-worthy recently enough to remember the shortcuts). Or you can create an en dash automatically in Word with two hyphens, no spaces on either side, and a space after the second word. The em dash is an insertable symbol in Word.

Communistik

On the keyboard as in on the keyboard. I'm not going to hold Alt down and press four numbers just to get a symbol that holds absolutely no greater power of communication than the one I can get in a single key press.

Lesser intellects require lesser detail, and that's fine. :)

I mean if one's job requires the distinction, then one's gotta do what one's gotta do, but if one honestly believes that the distinction matters rather than recognizing it as the utter theater that it is, then that's an entirely different matter. Language is a wholly human-created phenomenon whose rules come not from a divine edict but rather simple common-use convention, and whose purpose is to enable complex communication between those animals who share a common understanding of the language. To focus on something that is technically incorrect but whose correction would quite literally impart on the text absolutely no greater power of communication whatsoever is not only to waste one's time, but also to demonstrate either complete ignorance of or complete apathy towards the very purpose of language itself.

But hey, what do I know.

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#50 Communistik
Member since 2010 • 774 Posts

[QUOTE="Communistik"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

On the keyboard as in on the keyboard. I'm not going to hold Alt down and press four numbers just to get a symbol that holds absolutely no greater power of communication than the one I can get in a single key press.

GabuEx

Lesser intellects require lesser detail, and that's fine. :)

I mean if one's job requires the distinction, then one's gotta do what one's gotta do, but if one honestly believes that the distinction matters rather than recognizing it as the utter theater that it is, then that's an entirely different matter. Language is a wholly human-created phenomenon whose rules come not from a divine edict but rather simple common-use convention, and whose purpose is to enable complex communication between those animals who share a common understanding of the language. To focus on something that is technically incorrect but whose correction would quite literally impart on the text absolutely no greater power of communication whatsoever is not only to waste one's time, but also to demonstrate either complete ignorance of or complete apathy towards the very purpose of language itself.

But hey, what do I know.

You're entitled to your opinion. I feel that the fluidity of the English language (or the attitude of, "Who cares as long as they know what I mean") is what breeds ignorance. I prefer discipline and attention to detail. Try filing a trial or appellate brief with dash errors in any Americanfederal court; you're going to cripple your case before you even recite to the judge, because he's going to think you're an idiot who didn't pay attention in legal research and writing class. You might not consider it important, but that's not because it isn't important. It's because you don't know it's important.