Israel rebuffs US call for total settlement freeze

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majwill24

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#1 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

Honestly, this unwavernig support is the most baffling aspect of the US....

Hopefully the Israeli overtures to China dont take hold, because the last thing the world need is Israel jumping to the next superpowers breast.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090528/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians;_ylt=Ajq8Mit7Kgl35HeyoNYkI.dzfNdF

By MATTI FRIEDMAN, Associated Press Writer–ThuMay28, 9:42amET

JERUSALEM –Israeldefied a surprisingly blunt U.S. demand that it freeze all building inWest BankJewish settlements, saying Thursday it will press ahead with construction.

U.S. Secretary ofState Hillary Rodham Clintonsaid Wednesday thatPresident Barack Obamawants Israel to halt to all settlement construction — including "natural growth." She was referring to Israel's insistence that new construction is necessary to accommodate the expansion of families already living in existing settlements.

Government spokesmanMark Regevresponded by saying "normal life in those communities must be allowed to continue." He confirmed that this meant some construction will continue in existing settlements.

The new conflict with Washington came on the same day Obama was to meetPalestinian President Mahmoud Abbasat theWhite House. Abbas has said the Palestinian demand for freezing settlements will be at the top of his agenda in the talks.

Obama's administration has been more explicit in its criticism ofIsraeli settlement policythan its predecessor. The U.S. and much of the world consider the settlements an obstacle to peace because they are built on land the Palestinians claim for a future state.

More than 280,000 Jewish settlers live among more than 2 millionPalestiniansin the West Bank.

Regev said the fate of existing settlements will be determined in peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. He said Israel has pledged to build no new settlements and to remove unauthorized outposts in the West Bank.

While Israel could flout U.S. opposition, it is wary of picking a fight with its closest and most important ally.

Israeli officials proposed a compromise earlier this week. In exchange for removing some 22 outposts, they would ask the U.S. to permit new construction in existing settlements. Clinton's remarks followed that proposal.

But even the limited step of removing outposts faces stiff opposition from the Israeli right. Settler news siteArutz Shevareported Thursday that leading rabbis linked to thesettlement movementhad issued a call to soldiers to disobey orders to demolish the outposts.

"The holy Torah (scripture) prohibits taking part in any act of uprooting Jews from any part of our sacred land," the site quoted the rabbis' statement as saying.

The new Israeli and the U.S. leaders have strikingly different approaches to Israeli-Palestinian relations. Netanyahu refuses to endorse Palestinian independence, a notion supported by Obama, his predecessor and the previous Israeli government.

Clinton said Obama told Netanyahu last week when the two met at theWhite Housethat the U.S. sees stopping settlements as key to a peace deal that would see a Palestinian state created alongside Israel.

"He wants to see a stop to settlements — not some settlements, not outposts, not 'natural growth' exceptions," Clinton said. "We think it is in the best interests (of the peace process) that settlement expansion cease. That is our position. That is what we have communicated very clearly. ... And we intend to press that point."

The U.S. and many other Western countries have been dealing with Abbas, who leads the Palestinian Authority from theWest Bank, while mostly shunning the militant IslamicHamasgroup that controls theGaza Strip.

Hamas took overGazanearly two years ago after routing Abbas' forces in bloody street battles. Repeated attempts to reconcile between the two bitter rivals have failed to yield any results.

A senior Hamas militant was killed Thursday by Israeli forces in theWest Bank city of Hebronafter a 14-year manhunt.

The Israeli military said they surrounded the militant's house and called on him to surrender, but he instead opened fire at soldiers who shot back and killed him.

The military said the wanted man, Abed Majid Daodin, 45, had recruited and dispatchedsuicide bombers, including two who killed 10 Israelis and wounded over 100 when they blew themselves up on commuter buses in 1995.

Daodin was jailed by the Palestinian Authority after the bombings but was set free after violence erupted between Israel and thePalestiniansin 2000.

Hamas vowed to avenge the militants death.

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duxup

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#2 duxup
Member since 2002 • 43443 Posts

I have no problem cutting back their funding / support to make a point.

I don't see any reason for China to support Israel. It provides them no advantage and plenty of disadvantages.

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majwill24

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#3 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

I have no problem cutting back their funding / support to make a point.

I don't see any reason for China to support Israel. It provides them no advantage and plenty of disadvantages.

duxup

Ssshh, someone may hear you and call you anti semitic. Happened to me at UofH, being surrounded by so many Christian evangelicals.

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dramaybaz

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#4 dramaybaz
Member since 2005 • 6020 Posts
Majwill, thanks for coming up with intelligent discussions in OT, usually its same ol crap. :D On topic; yes I agree with what duxup said, China really doesn't have any need to support Israel for their Growth. They will not want to be dragged down in this.
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Famiking

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#5 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts
:bow: Obama :bow: Great to see a non-Zionist in power :D
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MattUD1

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#6 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts
I approve of the White House.
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LosDaddie

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#8 LosDaddie
Member since 2006 • 10318 Posts

Another great decision by Obama. :)

Israel is a great ally to have, but they are not perfect and the USA should treat them as such. Unfortunately, we have too many Americans who believe Israel is 100% innocent on every issue.

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Nexus-Replicant

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#9 Nexus-Replicant
Member since 2009 • 34 Posts
Israel can do no wrong
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comp_atkins

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#10 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38938 Posts

this whole idea of "god wants us to live on this land" has seriously got to go..... time for the us to grow some friggin' balls when dealing with israel. how long will the us allow israel to suck at its teat while being defiant over and over again?

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Siofen

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#12 Siofen
Member since 2008 • 987 Posts

this whole idea of "god wants us to live on this land" has seriously got to go..... time for the us to grow some friggin' balls when dealing with israel. how long will the us allow israel to suck at its teat while being defiant over and over again?

comp_atkins

What do you mean sucking at the U.S's teet? Israel has a VERY strong economy because it's a very technology driven nation, there are many things that you use every day that was invented in Israel and U.S aid is just a tiny fragment of their military budget, the myth that Israel depends on the U.S each and every way has got to go. Infact since Israel is such a technology driven nation, it's very much the U.S that benefits in having the Israel around. Both when it comes to military technology and private industres.

a list of a few things invented in Israel

So yea with an economy like that Israel, Israel is far from leeching off any other government.

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snakes_codec

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#13 snakes_codec
Member since 2008 • 2754 Posts

Another great decision by Obama. :)

Israel is a great ally to have, but they are not perfect and the USA should treat them as such. Unfortunately, we have too many Americans who believe Israel is 100% innocent on every issue.

LosDaddie

why is Israel a great ally to have there more trouble than there worth and they cost U.S taxes payers a fortune all they do is take take take to continue there war against the Arabs .

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Siofen

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#14 Siofen
Member since 2008 • 987 Posts

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]

Another great decision by Obama. :)

Israel is a great ally to have, but they are not perfect and the USA should treat them as such. Unfortunately, we have too many Americans who believe Israel is 100% innocent on every issue.

snakes_codec

why is Israel a great ally to have there more trouble than there worth and they cost U.S taxes payers a fortune all they do is take take take to continue there war against the Arabs .

Trust me, if Israel was at war with all arabs they would have been done a LOOOONG time ago. They have one of the best militaries in the world.

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majwill24

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#15 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

In a Nov. 10, 1945 meeting with American diplomats brought in from their posts in the Middle East to urge Truman not to heed Zionist urgings, Truman had bluntly explained his motivation:

"I'm sorry, gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism: I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents."

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0591/9105017.htm

Truman going against the advice of nearly everyone and siding with the zionist will be regarded as one of worst decisions in US history IMO.

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UnknownSniper65

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#16 UnknownSniper65
Member since 2004 • 9238 Posts

If China has any sense at all they wouldn't get involved at all...No need in making a new friend at the cost of making 10 new enemies.

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#17 snakes_codec
Member since 2008 • 2754 Posts

[QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]

Another great decision by Obama. :)

Israel is a great ally to have, but they are not perfect and the USA should treat them as such. Unfortunately, we have too many Americans who believe Israel is 100% innocent on every issue.

Siofen

why is Israel a great ally to have there more trouble than there worth and they cost U.S taxes payers a fortune all they do is take take take to continue there war against the Arabs .

Trust me, if Israel was at war with all arabs they would have been done a LOOOONG time ago. They have one of the best militaries in the world.

i don't think you understand what i said Israel is a tiny country yes it military is good on paper but you have to take other factors into account such as there economy which is very small and there little defence industry which as i said is hugely funded by the U.S to put it simple Israel is nothing with out U.S aid to subsidize them so they can fight wars against there neighbours .

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majwill24

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#18 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

If China has any sense at all they wouldn't get involved at all...No need in making a new friend at the cost of making 10 new enemies.

UnknownSniper65

Israel has been trying to form a friendship out what is currently business deals of selling US arms and secrets. Israel are big suppliers of military arms to china and india. The cynic in me says this is conscious choice improve to relations with the rising super powers so when America loses it super power status, they have a new big brother to watch over them.

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Ace_WondersX

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#19 Ace_WondersX
Member since 2003 • 4455 Posts

Someone said U.S. benefits more from Israel than Israel benefis from the U.S.?

If the west ever ignored Israel, Libya, Iran, and Palestine would advance on it as quick as possible.

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UnknownSniper65

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#20 UnknownSniper65
Member since 2004 • 9238 Posts

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

If China has any sense at all they wouldn't get involved at all...No need in making a new friend at the cost of making 10 new enemies.

majwill24

Israel has been trying to form a friendship out what is currently business deals of selling US arms and secrets. Israel are big suppliers of military arms to china and india. The cynic in me says this is conscious choice improve to relations with the rising super powers so when America loses it super power status, they have a new big brother to watch over them.

Israel's alliances are always incredibly one sided...the risk of dealing with them is not worth the reward in my opinion. After the 1973 war, we should have pulled out of the region a long with the Russians...We had already accomplished our goal.
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UnknownSniper65

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#21 UnknownSniper65
Member since 2004 • 9238 Posts

Someone said U.S. benefits more from Israel than Israel benefis from the U.S.?

If the west ever ignored Israel, Libya, Iran, and Palestine would advance on it as quick as possible.

Ace_WondersX
Not to mention we already have allies who don't have a habit of spying on us and selling our technology off to foreign powers.
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Norg

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#22 Norg
Member since 2002 • 15959 Posts

isreal is costing us money i wish we would of allied with IRAN and Syria instead LOL

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majwill24

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#23 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

If China has any sense at all they wouldn't get involved at all...No need in making a new friend at the cost of making 10 new enemies.

UnknownSniper65

Israel has been trying to form a friendship out what is currently business deals of selling US arms and secrets. Israel are big suppliers of military arms to china and india. The cynic in me says this is conscious choice improve to relations with the rising super powers so when America loses it super power status, they have a new big brother to watch over them.

Israel's alliances are always incredibly one sided...the risk of dealing with them is not worth the reward in my opinion. After the 1973 war, we should have pulled out of the region a long with the Russians...We had already accomplished our goal.

My fingers are crossed. I know it will be infinitely more difficult for zionist infiltration and propaganda to brainwash the Chinese as they did with west, but you can never underestimate the will to survive. The zionist are extremely fearful as the world oil reserves deplete, the desire for it will be stronger than ever and that will give Arba nations even a stronger hand, They fear that the Asian powers will make deals that will effectively obliterate the jews from Israel and with weakened western powers, the UN resistance will be anemic.

IT may seem far fetched but that paranoia is reasonable because the Asian powers are less altruistic and frankly dont give a damn what happens to a few million people espcially if those people are a hindrance to national interests of billions of lives.

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#24 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38938 Posts

[QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

[QUOTE="LosDaddie"]

Another great decision by Obama. :)

Israel is a great ally to have, but they are not perfect and the USA should treat them as such. Unfortunately, we have too many Americans who believe Israel is 100% innocent on every issue.

Siofen

why is Israel a great ally to have there more trouble than there worth and they cost U.S taxes payers a fortune all they do is take take take to continue there war against the Arabs .

Trust me, if Israel was at war with all arabs they would have been done a LOOOONG time ago. They have one of the best militaries in the world.

too small for anything meaningful other than their own defense ( which of course they are quite good at ).. but offensive wars are far more difficult.
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#25 haloraider
Member since 2006 • 3110 Posts

Let's hope the US government follows through with their claims and cuts off aid to Israel.

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majwill24

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#26 majwill24
Member since 2004 • 1355 Posts

Majwill, thanks for coming up with intelligent discussions in OT, usually its same ol crap. :D On topic; yes I agree with what duxup said, China really doesn't have any need to support Israel for their Growth. They will not want to be dragged down in this.dramaybaz

Thanks.

I found it extremely disturbing that forum is mainly for religion, as those topics get the most comments. Issues of economics, foreign policy and aid are things we need to evaluate and discuss because in the homeland, people are losing jobs and prices are going up.

Maybe, its because I wasnt born here and I grew up in a east asian country before I came to the States and so I dont share in the national obsession with social issues like most Americans do. Still, it is frightening, no matter the forum Social topics get 10x the debate over economic issues, even in these troubles financial times

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12Bullets

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#27 12Bullets
Member since 2009 • 1024 Posts
everytime i criticise israels someone calls me anti-smetic or brings up the holocaust
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CombatHigh

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#28 CombatHigh
Member since 2008 • 286 Posts

everytime i criticise israels someone calls me anti-smetic or brings up the holocaust12Bullets

Yeah, lol, trust me bro i know what you mean.

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#29 snakes_codec
Member since 2008 • 2754 Posts

everytime i criticise israels someone calls me anti-smetic or brings up the holocaust12Bullets

same here in Britain mate the media and most of the people support Israel with out question I'm one of few people who don't like how they handle there problems and I'm half Jewish doesn't mean i hate the people of Israel Ive met a few Israelis there nice people but how they act politically is wrong in my opinion but that doesn't excuse the Palestinians who fire rockets at Israeli cities if you ask me both sides need to do some growing up and try to get along but we all know that wont happen .

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#30 th3warr1or
Member since 2007 • 20637 Posts

If China has any sense at all they wouldn't get involved at all...No need in making a new friend at the cost of making 10 new enemies.

UnknownSniper65
But when your new friend is worth 15, I'd do it. Lulz.
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dramaybaz

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#31 dramaybaz
Member since 2005 • 6020 Posts
[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"]

If China has any sense at all they wouldn't get involved at all...No need in making a new friend at the cost of making 10 new enemies.

th3warr1or
But when your new friend is worth 15, I'd do it. Lulz.

A joke ofcourse :)
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#32 Makemap
Member since 2007 • 3755 Posts

[QUOTE="UnknownSniper65"][QUOTE="majwill24"]

Israel has been trying to form a friendship out what is currently business deals of selling US arms and secrets. Israel are big suppliers of military arms to china and india. The cynic in me says this is conscious choice improve to relations with the rising super powers so when America loses it super power status, they have a new big brother to watch over them.

majwill24

Israel's alliances are always incredibly one sided...the risk of dealing with them is not worth the reward in my opinion. After the 1973 war, we should have pulled out of the region a long with the Russians...We had already accomplished our goal.

My fingers are crossed. I know it will be infinitely more difficult for zionist infiltration and propaganda to brainwash the Chinese as they did with west, but you can never underestimate the will to survive. The zionist are extremely fearful as the world oil reserves deplete, the desire for it will be stronger than ever and that will give Arba nations even a stronger hand, They fear that the Asian powers will make deals that will effectively obliterate the jews from Israel and with weakened western powers, the UN resistance will be anemic.

IT may seem far fetched but that paranoia is reasonable because the Asian powers are less altruistic and frankly dont give a damn what happens to a few million people espcially if those people are a hindrance to national interests of billions of lives.

The Asians are too busy protecting themselves against western powers, of course they won't do anything about it. Imagine US controlling China. The culture would have been lost big time. Would you be pissed off if entire Asia turns into a place like America? Westerners tend to replace their culture against others. Better to keep it seperate.

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Return-Fire

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#33 Return-Fire
Member since 2009 • 134 Posts
Did you guys hear what Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said about Israel at the racism conference? Iran is joke and the only reason nations back them is oil. If you back Israel you get nothing but a head ache regaurdless whos right or wrong it's not easy on the political stage to befreind Israel. You can't just bail on your freinds when things get tough.