It's a myth that everyone needs to go to college.

I was watching the documentary "Waiting For Superman" recently, and one message they kept repeating was the stipulation that every child needs to be raised to go to college.

It's a myth that you need to go to college to achieve a better standard of living. College offers only a small guarantee of future professional success. I know quite a few people who regret taking on the debt and receiving only worthless degrees in the liberal arts in return. Even certain professional schools, like law schools, can no longer guarantee its students a career in whatever field that professional school specializes in.

This may be the cynical view, but I believe that kids are encouraged to go to college because there is so much money to be made off each student. There are Pell Grants, government loans (which is up to the government to collect, not the school), and various other monies floating around for the taking. So why not encourage this nation's young children to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans and go to college? It only benefits the universities (who get the money upfront, no collection duties required) and the people who securitize the cash flows from these loans and sell them off to investors. All at the expense of taxpayers and creating a new underclass of serfs with college degrees and no means of paying them back.

We need shut down for-profit colleges, increase enrollment standards so that only the best academic performers go to college, and end certain free trade agreements to get manufacturing jobs back on US soil, so that those who don't go to college will still have something in life to look forward to.

Not everyone needs to go to college, but it does increase the average lifetime earnings of a person by a significant amount.

What "certain free trade agreements" would you end, and why do you think this would grant the US an advantage in the manufacturing sector?

Limit the amount of education available to future generations, allow only a select few to ascend beyond a basic education, and cut certain free-trade agreements so that these people can settle into a life of manufacturing that is, essentially, determined for them? I have heard of this before but I don't know where.clayron

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

[QUOTE="clayron"]Limit the amount of education available to future generations, allow only a select few to ascend beyond a basic education, and cut certain free-trade agreements so that these people can settle into a life of manufacturing that is, essentially, determined for them? I have heard of this before but I don't know where.The_Capitalist

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

The_Capitalist

College is a principally a choice. So people who often go to college are those who have determined to do so of their own volition. I don't understand how by capping the amount of people allowed into college would benefit the U.S. Particularly since it's not always the best academic performers who do well post-college. It seems sort of self-defeating to limit the talent pool to those who did exceedingly well in college.

I truly don't understand how this would help our country.

Haha I remember there was a teenage girl at the gas station I worked at she's like: "I'm going to stick with it and graduate high shcool!" And Im all: "Yeah that's great! I graduated highschool and look at me, I WORK AT A GAS STATION!!!" It was great and many lawls were had.

Yeah but college is not for everybody.

[QUOTE="clayron"]Limit the amount of education available to future generations, allow only a select few to ascend beyond a basic education, and cut certain free-trade agreements so that these people can settle into a life of manufacturing that is, essentially, determined for them? I have heard of this before but I don't know where.The_Capitalist

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

In some cases you can do just fine without a college eductation. But the fact of the matter is for most jobs you need a b.s.

[QUOTE="clayron"]Limit the amount of education available to future generations, allow only a select few to ascend beyond a basic education, and cut certain free-trade agreements so that these people can settle into a life of manufacturing that is, essentially, determined for them? I have heard of this before but I don't know where.The_Capitalist

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

College is not for everyone, but you still need to learn a trade (or two) after high school. Not going to college doesn't mean your education ends at high school.

That´s right. Hobos don´t go to college.

[QUOTE="clayron"]Limit the amount of education available to future generations, allow only a select few to ascend beyond a basic education, and cut certain free-trade agreements so that these people can settle into a life of manufacturing that is, essentially, determined for them? I have heard of this before but I don't know where.The_Capitalist

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

right just let a few go to college, and limit education to people great idea.

Well if you want a well paying job yes you need to get a degree from college. It's a shame most jobs don't put people on a trial bases to see if they're qualified for the job but could take longer to get through applicants.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

clayron

College is a principally a choice. So people who often go to college are those who have determined to do so of their own volition. I don't understand how by capping the amount of people allowed into college would benefit the U.S. Particularly since it's not always the best academic performers who do well post-college. It seems sort of self-defeating to limit the talent pool to those who did exceedingly well in college.

I truly don't understand how this would help our country.

Is it really a choice when your parents, your peers, and TV commercials tell you to go to college?

Plus, the last thing the US needs is more people with degrees in the liberal arts.

Perhaps I should have phrased my proposal better. Encourage children to go to college in a way that will benefit them and the country the best (by pursuing degrees in the sciences, technology, and engineering). Allow children to be aware of the strings of going to college and studying something that has few career prospects.

People just need to make their decisions more clearly, that is all. The ethos of this country is encouraging everyone to go to college, whether it benefits the country or not. Does it benefit the country if most college graduates end with six figures in debt and few avenues to paying it off? No.

We need people in the word who clean toilets, build houses, dig ditches.ferrari2001

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]We need people in the word who clean toilets, build houses, dig ditches.kamikaze_pigmy

Everyone should go to college. It pisses me off how expensive it is here in the U.S, education is the most important thing a person can have. Even if it is uncertain if you'll get a great job after graduation you should still try and get a higher education.

Yes it's a Myth. We need people in the word who clean toilets, build houses, dig ditches. If everyone went to college and tried to get jobs based on their majors the world would fall apart. Gotta have people who do the grunt work. ferrari2001

We need shut down for-profit colleges, increase enrollment standards so that only the best academic performers go to college, and end certain free trade agreements to get manufacturing jobs back on US soil, so that those who don't go to college will still have something in life to look forward to.

The_Capitalist

Yes it's a Myth. We need people in the word who clean toilets, build houses, dig ditches. If everyone went to college and tried to get jobs based on their majors the world would fall apart. Gotta have people who do the grunt work. ferrari2001

College? I didn't even went to high school

[QUOTE="clayron"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

The_Capitalist

College is a principally a choice. So people who often go to college are those who have determined to do so of their own volition. I don't understand how by capping the amount of people allowed into college would benefit the U.S. Particularly since it's not always the best academic performers who do well post-college. It seems sort of self-defeating to limit the talent pool to those who did exceedingly well in college.

I truly don't understand how this would help our country.

Is it really a choice when your parents, your peers, and TV commercials tell you to go to college?

Exactly, I need people to serve me food at mcdonalds, and people to mop and sweep the floors of places I go. Thank god those people didn't go to college, so they can't hope to compete with me.

Is it really a choice when your parents, your peers, and TV commercials tell you to go to college?

Plus, the last thing the US needs is more people with degrees in the liberal arts.

Perhaps I should have phrased my proposal better. Encourage children to go to college in a way that will benefit them and the country the best (by pursuing degrees in the sciences, technology, and engineering). Allow children to be aware of the strings of going to college and studying something that has few career prospects.

People just need to make their decisions more clearly, that is all. The ethos of this country is encouraging everyone to go to college, whether it benefits the country or not. Does it benefit the country if most college graduates end with six figures in debt and few avenues to paying it off? No.

The_Capitalist

Your prejudice seems to be against those with degrees in liberal arts, which in your mind are useless. I can't argue this point since I don't know the statistics on liberal arts majors and post-graduate job opportunities. However, I'd be hesitant to say that the degree is absolutely useless based on whatever criteria you are using. A degree that does not translate into direct vocational training does not mean it is useless. But, again, I can't argue the point since I don't have the information necessary to make an argument.

Even if you "encouraged" people to go to college in a way that benefits the country best; how would you accomplish this? Make all students study engineering/business/and or various other sciences? Then, as the previous point states, that creates a huge labor supply of people who will not be able to get jobs due to an over-saturated market. A factoid that a lot of science majors are dealing with when the economy goes south and businesses contract. Why avoid such studies as history, latin, social sciences, etc? Why encourage students to avoid these majors? Even if they didn't get a job post-graduation there is always further educational opportunities (grad-school) that would allow these students to further specialize in their own major and possibly move into other fields. I don't know how you measure a college degree's benefit to a country.

Ehh, I don't agree with the TC's premise that college should be made less accessible, but clearly not everyone is cut out for college, even if they do go. Instead we need to better promote trade schools as a viable alternative. This country is facing, in many areas, a shortage of skilled trade laborers who do essential, but hard and unglamourous work. Plumbers, for example, are indespensible in our society, but no one wants to do the work anymore. They're too good to get their hands dirty. Everyone wants to go to college and become a lawyer, a businessman, or a liberal arts major. All three this country has an overabundance of.

Everybody has their own situation. College isn't for everybody but it's not a bad idea to have them go anyway. I wouldn't use the excuse "we need people not to go because of labor" because you have plenty of college and high school kids who can work in those jobs until they get their degrees. The degree makes you more competitive. But yes, OP, I know plenty of people without degrees that make a decent living. I don't have my degree (yet) but I make about $70,000 a year in my current job. I know of plenty of truck drivers who make over $50,000 a year and some who make close to six figures. Then you have people who get lucky and make a ton of money for being in the right place in the right time. Then you look at people like teachers who do a hard job that requires a four year degree and make less than $40,000 a year. Or, you have people who end up taking over a hundred thousand dollars in loans to get a higher degree so they can get a job that gives the big bucks.

People need to realise that college by itself can be useless. However, it's a big stepping stone for most corporate jobs. You can walk into a lot of jobs with your degree and they may push you to the end of the line because you don't have experience to back it up. It's kind of like the credit paradox, you can't get credit until you build a solid credit history but you can't build a solid credit history when you have people denying you left and right for a lack of history. Which requires you to find alternative ways to build credit such as prepaid cards. But without a degree they might not even be allowed to apply at all.I'm taking my time on my degree because by the time I leave the military I'll have a degree and leadership experience to go with it versus having only a degree and four years of partying in college to present to an employer. There are plenty of ways out there somebody can make themselves look more marketable. But without the degree they're pretty much lowering their appeal no matter what they did in the past.

[QUOTE="kamikaze_pigmy"][QUOTE="ferrari2001"]We need people in the word who clean toilets, build houses, dig ditches.CosmoKing7717

[QUOTE="clayron"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

The_Capitalist

College is a principally a choice. So people who often go to college are those who have determined to do so of their own volition. I don't understand how by capping the amount of people allowed into college would benefit the U.S. Particularly since it's not always the best academic performers who do well post-college. It seems sort of self-defeating to limit the talent pool to those who did exceedingly well in college.

I truly don't understand how this would help our country.

Is it really a choice when your parents, your peers, and TV commercials tell you to go to college?

I'm not sure whether to take this seriously or not. College is a choice, its not mandatory. Parent's are really the only strong force of influence in this situation. If seeing a commercial for college (which never come on where I live, unless its a tech school) is tramatic enough for you to feel nervous about not going to college...you have some other things you need to work on. Same goes for peers, I don't think peers could be considered as a strong force of influence either, at least not to the point where you feel obligated to go if you don't want to. As far as parents go, of course they want their child to achieve higher education, are they supposed to discourage going to college?..

YOu could make an arugment for certain trade professions. But they kind of have their own schools.

Ehh, I don't agree with the TC's premise that college should be made less accessible, but clearly not everyone is cut out for college, even if they do go. Instead we need to better promote trade schools as a viable alternative. This country is facing, in many areas, a shortage of skilled trade laborers who do essential, but hard and unglamourous work. Plumbers, for example, are indespensible in our society, but no one wants to do the work anymore. They're too good to get their hands dirty. Everyone wants to go to college and become a lawyer, a businessman, or a liberal arts major. All three this country has an overabundance of.

worlock77

Everybody has their own situation. College isn't for everybody but it's not a bad idea to have them go anyway. I wouldn't use the excuse "we need people not to go because of labor" because you have plenty of college and high school kids who can work in those jobs until they get their degrees. The degree makes you more competitive. But yes, OP, I know plenty of people without degrees that make a decent living. I don't have my degree (yet) but I make about $70,000 a year in my current job. I know of plenty of truck drivers who make over $50,000 a year and some who make close to six figures. Then you have people who get lucky and make a ton of money for being in the right place in the right time. Then you look at people like teachers who do a hard job that requires a four year degree and make less than $40,000 a year. Or, you have people who end up taking over a hundred thousand dollars in loans to get a higher degree so they can get a job that gives the big bucks.

People need to realise that college by itself can be useless. However, it's a big stepping stone for most corporate jobs. You can walk into a lot of jobs with your degree and they may push you to the end of the line because you don't have experience to back it up. It's kind of like the credit paradox, you can't get credit until you build a solid credit history but you can't build a solid credit history when you have people denying you left and right for a lack of history. Which requires you to find alternative ways to build credit such as prepaid cards. But without a degree they might not even be allowed to apply at all.I'm taking my time on my degree because by the time I leave the military I'll have a degree and leadership experience to go with it versus having only a degree and four years of partying in college to present to an employer. There are plenty of ways out there somebody can make themselves look more marketable. But without the degree they're pretty much lowering their appeal no matter what they did in the past.

ad1x2

Both of you touch on something that is true. Trades. We are losing people who work at such jobs in droves, but the irony is, as pointed out, can earn big money. Boilermakers, millwrights, pipefitters, ironworkersall make big money and in some cases, only work 6-9 months out of the year, for 6 figures or more. I work 8-9 months a year and make close to $50,000 as a nondestructive testing technician for an engineering firm, without a college degree (the company I work forwill even train you). Granted, you might have to travel to make such money, but per diem can add up to big money if you put it aside instead of spending it by partying every night (working 12 hours a day means I just want to sleep when I get off work). Now, having a college degree will help out at the company I work for (it needs to be in engineering or chemistry or something like that), but not needed as a tech really.

One day, people will need something fixed, and instead of being able to get it fixed, it will have to be thrown away or cost a small fortune to get it fixed. Imagine how much it will cost to get your car fixed if only new car dealers are the only ones aroumd to fix your car and no independent mechanics. As mentioned, no one wants to be a plumber. Many of the places the company I work for go to only want people there that can speak and understand English. Illegal immigrants will not be able to go to these companies, even as a contractor. The need to know and understand what needs to be done in an emergency is important, your life depends on being able to understand instructions and they do not issue those in Spanish or any other language.

Going to a trade school and learning a trade isn't as bad as some think it is. Good money to be had if you get into the right company.

Not for everyone

Let me see here......

I dropped out of HS in the 11th grade. I got into the Sheet Metal Union and they sent me to school for it. Without a HS diploma I might add. I'm a Sheet Metal mechanic. Been doing this for 23 years now. I make $41.00 and hour. I did later on get a GED. I make more money then most of my friends who went to college.

College is already tough enough to get into and pay for, making it harder to get there just makes the world die faster than it already seems to be

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="clayron"]Limit the amount of education available to future generations, allow only a select few to ascend beyond a basic education, and cut certain free-trade agreements so that these people can settle into a life of manufacturing that is, essentially, determined for them? I have heard of this before but I don't know where.sonicare

People will still be expected to complete high school. We just need to make college less accessible, that is all. Because not everyone is ready for/should go to college.

to further separate the common folk from the elite, of course! It's not enough to be smart, now you need to be filthy rich and have connections! :P

:roll:

Not for everyone

Let me see here......

I dropped out of HS in the 11th grade. I got into the Sheet Metal Union and they sent me to school for it. Without a HS diploma I might add. I'm a Sheet Metal mechanic. Been doing this for 23 years now. I make $41.00 and hour. I did later on get a GED. I make more money then most of my friends who went to college.

Kage1

this is a good argument, but if you had a college degree (even a basic degree in, idunno, business) and 23 years invested in a stable company, you'd problably be making a significant amount more.

either way, provided you work and strive to improve yourself, I don't think it really matters where you go.

Overall, though, I feel college should be for people that want a specific job, and that college should not be the standard, nor a basis for discrimination.

Exactly, I need people to serve me food at mcdonalds, and people to mop and sweep the floors of places I go. Thank god those people didn't go to college, so they can't hope to compete with me.

CaveJohnson1

A lot of them DID go to college.

That's the funny thing about the whole "everyone should go to college" thing. Even if literally EVERYONE got a college degree, we still need people to serve us at restaurants and work the cash register at Wal-Mart. Those jobs are just going to get filled by college graduates. Which sort of sucks for the college graduates who realize that their degrees are useless, and that they wasted all of that time and money just to work at Red Lobster.

Now, I'm all for everyone having the OPPORTUNITY to go to college. But if you're not serious about it, and only get a worthless liberal arts degree, and then spend your entire time at college basically half-assing it, then maybe you SHOULDN'T go to college. The more people that are going to college, the more worthless a college education is going to become unless you really make yourself stand out from all of the other ****loads of people who are also going to college for the exact same degree as you.

I like knowledge, and knowledge is good for humanity in general, not simply for the sake of earning money.dramaybaz

Here's the thing about that...you don'tt need to go to college to increase your (general) knowledge. If you're really wanting to make genuine scientific breakthroughs, then yeah...you'll probably need to go to college for a LONG time. Because you're probably not going to be able to do that without access to state of the art lab equipment, funding to do your research, and the credibility to be allowed to just be trusted to provide results.

But otherwise...hardly anyone goes to college for the sole (or even MAIN) purpose of learning. The main purpose is to get a job. If you just want more knowledge, it has never been easier for a motivated person to gain VAST amounts of knowledge.