Libertarians

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Are libertarians the ones who think its ok to beat your kids?

I hold many Libertarian beliefs, but I'm not gonna label myself under any political party.

I don't like the reasoning behind Libertarian beliefs nor do I like its core of individualist philosophy.

Although I don't like classifying myself as being under the wing of any political party, my views would probably be equivalent to those of a Libertarian Socialist.

I don't like the reasoning behind Libertarian beliefs nor do I like its core of individualist philosophy.

Theokhoth

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

With so much political text being tossed around in these forums additional topics can not be damaging. Sign here if you support Libertarian beliefs.

RevolutionGun

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I don't like the reasoning behind Libertarian beliefs nor do I like its core of individualist philosophy.

Hot-Tamale

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

The nice thing is that you can get all of that under the libertarian banner with L. Socialism. That's primarily why I don't identify fully with the mainstream Libertarian platform.

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

Hot-Tamale

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

Hot-Tamale

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

Hot-Tamale

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I don't like the reasoning behind Libertarian beliefs nor do I like its core of individualist philosophy.

tycoonmike

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

The nice thing is that you can get all of that under the libertarian banner with L. Socialism. That's primarily why I don't identify fully with the mainstream Libertarian platform.

That's a little too idealistic for me. Also, the unfortunate truth is that freedom and equality ARE mutually exclusive, and we need to find the ideal balance to match our society's mores. Of course, our mores can change at any given moment, but the possibility is always there. :)

That's a little too idealistic for me. Also, the unfortunate truth is that freedom and equality ARE mutually exclusive, and we need to find the ideal balance to match our society's mores. Of course, our mores can change at any given moment, but the possibility is always there. :)

Hot-Tamale

:| It's exactly what you describe: a society in which a person can both be himself or herself and still have an obligation to the community at large. Conformation and non-conformation, freedom and equality, total yin and total yang, combined.

It is idealistic, but it is also the true utopia. Not democracy, not communism, but this. I agree that we can only find a compromise to freedom and equality, but that's only as we are now. If, God forbid, some event in the future makes all of humanity (or what is left of it, as the case may be) realize that our petty differences and competitive nature is what is holding us back as a species, this is what will come to pass.

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"] You don't understand individualism. Individualism is the freedom for the individual to do as he pleases so as long as it doesn't conflict with other individual's rights. Going to Internet forums and town hall meetings aren't collectivists. These social activities are done to promote individualism, because the individual is free to be sociable. [QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

Genetic_Code

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

Hot-Tamale

You're suggesting voluntarism, I realize that. But guess what. Community involvement cuts productivity to less than a third of what it would be under mandates. Here's the research, http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/data_access/data/datasets/social_capital_community_survey.html

I've even heard Libertarians talk about voluntary taxes, *facepalm :lol:.

Anyway, nothing can be done in one person's self-interest without someone else losing something, which is why true mutualism is a myth (someone had to get taken advantage of somewhere along the scale of making a product or providing a service). That is why individualism cannot be practiced as it is idealistically typified.

I support some libertarian beliefs, particularly on the economy. However, I am not a libertarian. I am a conservative and support the government's role in enforcing universal authoritarian moral law and regulating economy only so much as to promote a free market.Genetic_Code

What moral "laws" do you support enforcing, beyond necessities to society such as no murder, theft, etc.?

Libertarians believe in abolishing the "age of consent" laws, don't they?

I support some libertarian beliefs, particularly on the economy. However, I am not a libertarian. I am a conservative and support the government's role in enforcing universal authoritarian moral law and regulating economy only so much as to promote a free market.Genetic_Code

Authoritarian moral law doesn't sound very individualistic to me...let alone voluntaristic. To each his own, I suppose...:)

Authoritarian moral law doesn't sound very individualistic to me...let alone voluntaristic. To each his own, I suppose...:)

Hot-Tamale

What moral "laws" do you support enforcing, beyond necessities to society such as no murder, theft, etc.?

chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Authoritarian moral law doesn't sound very individualistic to me...let alone voluntaristic. To each his own, I suppose...:)

Genetic_Code

What moral "laws" do you support enforcing, beyond necessities to society such as no murder, theft, etc.?

chessmaster1989

Abortion and drug use I can understand. What are your moral objections to prostitution, pornography, and gay (I presume) marriage? And what are your views on sex education?

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"] I'm not a libertarian nor do I support individualism. I was playing the devil's advocate earlier. [QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

What moral "laws" do you support enforcing, beyond necessities to society such as no murder, theft, etc.?

chessmaster1989

Abortion and drug use I can understand. What are your moral objections to prostitution, pornography, and gay (I presume) marriage? And what are your views on sex education?

The idea of people selling themselves. . .and if the individual is to be considered greater than the collective, then arguably the act of selling yourself is morally worse than selling someone else; the person running the brothel is making a profit, you're just sacrificing yourself (willingly or no) for whatever.

That's one reason why I don't like Libertarian beliefs. The value of the individual is placed above the value of the collective ("do what thou wilt, but stay away from me"), but it's perfectly moral for the individual to harm, killl, or sell themselves; it is, in fact, immoral to deny them this. This logic is not consistent.

Abortion and drug use I can understand. What are your moral objections to prostitution, pornography, and gay (I presume) marriage? And what are your views on sex education?

chessmaster1989

Anti-signs. Aside from being diametrically opposed to Libertarians political philosophies, I don't see why socialism is demonized and libertarian, the far-right equivalent of communism, is a supremely good thing. And don't get me started on how moderately left politicians get labeled as socialists while extreme libertarians try to pass themselves off as moderates. Libertarianism is the worst thing to happen to American politics ever.

Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?bronxxbombers

Anarchy for adults. :P

Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?bronxxbombers

Abortion and drug use I can understand. What are your moral objections to prostitution, pornography, and gay (I presume) marriage? And what are your views on sex education?

[QUOTE="bronxxbombers"]Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?Genetic_Code

There's also the issue of what happiness is; are we talking pleasure (quick fixes that fade away) or some other, more permanent kind of happiness? And is the pursuit of happiness referring to the individual or the collective pursuit?

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Abortion and drug use I can understand. What are your moral objections to prostitution, pornography, and gay (I presume) marriage? And what are your views on sex education?

Genetic_Code

What's so terrible about encouraging sex? :|

Since most people reach sexual maturity at or around the age of 12, it's absurd to delay sex education until age 18.

Nonetheless, I can accommodate your argument about teaching sex education before the age of consent. We just need to lower the age of consent to 12! :P

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Abortion and drug use I can understand. What are your moral objections to prostitution, pornography, and gay (I presume) marriage? And what are your views on sex education?

Genetic_Code

Pornography is not public, so that argument does not apply. If anything, I would argue it provides an alternative to sex, as opposed to encouraging it. Besides this, you then have to argue why sex is immoral. Again, with prostitution, the act is not done publically, and you can't outlaw a person dressing "like a prostitute."

I take it you essentially support gay marriage, just not under the name of marriage... whatever, that I can deal with, though I think it a little silly to ask for a distinction to be made.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Abortion and drug use I can understand. What are your moral objections to prostitution, pornography, and gay (I presume) marriage? And what are your views on sex education?

Stesilaus

What's so terrible about encouraging sex? :|

Since most people reach sexual maturity at or around the age of 12, it's absurd to delay sex education until age 18.

Nonetheless, I can accommodate your argument about teaching sex education before the age of consent. We just need to lower the age of consent to 12! :P

I'd so post a pedobear if it wasn't banned, so I'll just say

[QUOTE="bronxxbombers"]Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?Genetic_Code

If Libertarianism were only applied to moral issues I'd be all for it. Sadly, that description leaves a whole lot of information out about where Libertarianism gets very toxic. Most Libertarians believe that government should be close to non-existent. In other words, Libertarians are the closest thing you can get to political anarchists without actually getting into anarchy, and sometimes even then some of them say they support anarchy as a political theory. They believe in flat taxes, they believe in maintaining a strong military in order to maintain strong nationalism, although how they propose doing so while cutting taxes is beyond me. They oppose almost any form of government sponsored programs. They oppose social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment, minimum wage laws. Some of them want to privatize services like fire and police services. They support private industry almost unquestioningly. They're in favor of deregulating to absolutely absurd levels. I think I can safely say that the only issues I can agree with Libertarians on are the ones where they don't think government should interfere in people's moral choices, issues like legalization of drugs, prostitution, gay marriage, and abortion. With everything else, I think Libertarians are complete nutters.

I hold many views of Libertarianism. Mostly due to my extreme cynicism of government and politicians. Don't blame me, I grew up in Massachusetts. I guess you either become a Kennedyocrat or me.

Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?bronxxbombers

[QUOTE="bronxxbombers"]Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?savebattery

Well, ignorance and misconception are the prime means of spreading the Libertarian philosophy. It's very easy to make broad statements about moral stances and act as if that can be a legitimate political philosophy, it's quite another thing to actually put those principles to work. We've already seen how well heavy deregulation works, the guru of lassiez-faire, the bread and butter philiosophy of Libertarians, Alan Greenspan himself has said how deregulation fails if left unchecked. Libertarians are so keen on calling communism utopian, but I fail to see how the same doesn't apply to their political philosophy.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"][QUOTE="bronxxbombers"]Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?theone86

If Libertarianism were only applied to moral issues I'd be all for it. Sadly, that description leaves a whole lot of information out about where Libertarianism gets very toxic. Most Libertarians believe that government should be close to non-existent. In other words, Libertarians are the closest thing you can get to political anarchists without actually getting into anarchy, and sometimes even then some of them say they support anarchy as a political theory. They believe in flat taxes, they believe in maintaining a strong military in order to maintain strong nationalism, although how they propose doing so while cutting taxes is beyond me. They oppose almost any form of government sponsored programs. They oppose social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment, minimum wage laws. Some of them want to privatize services like fire and police services. They support private industry almost unquestioningly. They're in favor of deregulating to absolutely absurd levels. I think I can safely say that the only issues I can agree with Libertarians on are the ones where they don't think government should interfere in people's moral choices, issues like legalization of drugs, prostitution, gay marriage, and abortion. With everything else, I think Libertarians are complete nutters.

this, or as someone else said, the conservatives equvielent of communism.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I don't like the reasoning behind Libertarian beliefs nor do I like its core of individualist philosophy.

Hot-Tamale

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

I'd so post a pedobear if it wasn't banned

Theokhoth

Wait a minute. Posting a picture of Pedobear is banned? I mean, I guess I understand it considering its ties to a certain, disreputable forum but that still doesn't make sense. Indeed, have V masks been banned due to how the group Anonymous uses them?

Libertarian here.

[QUOTE="savebattery"][QUOTE="bronxxbombers"]Not sure what Libertarian is, I'm only 14, so, and I'm American, so most likely the ignorance is strong within me. Anyone care to offer a synopsis on Libertarian beliefs?theone86

Well, ignorance and misconception are the prime means of spreading the Libertarian philosophy. It's very easy to make broad statements about moral stances and act as if that can be a legitimate political philosophy, it's quite another thing to actually put those principles to work. We've already seen how well heavy deregulation works, the guru of lassiez-faire, the bread and butter philiosophy of Libertarians, Alan Greenspan himself has said how deregulation fails if left unchecked. Libertarians are so keen on calling communism utopian, but I fail to see how the same doesn't apply to their political philosophy.

Ugh *facepalm*, Libertarians are about *individual liberty*. There's nothing wrong with groups, and Libertarians recognize this. Libertarians dont agree that people should be forced to adhere to a specific group. You can call it collectivism, but its still voluntary, and that its voluntary is all that matters.

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:Hot-Tamale

*facepalm*. Its not like Libertarians are radical survivalist, or that we buy guns to protect ourselves against "everyone else", we buy guns because there ARE people out there who wish to deprive us of life, liberty, or property. Further, the idea that humans are evil and stupid is not in the least bit a coherent argument for the state. In fact, its a self-refuting argument for the State.

If people naturally form gangs and kill eachother without Governments, then the most irresponsible and irrational thing to do would be to deliberately form such a gang. Further, democracy is the only defensible form of Government. But the people who are dumb and irrational would certainly elect dumb and irrational people as their leaders.

Perhaps we could set up a technocracy where an enlightened elite run society. But its hard to see why one class of humans if fundamentally different from everyone else.

But let's say this technocracy happens. The police and bureaucrats running government certainly wouldn't be part of this enlightened elite. But let's say that they are. Then what? Well the authoritarianism and violence needed to maintain such a government would be unlimited, and so we get the sort of violence that the State was supposed to curb.

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:Hot-Tamale

Yes, Dont get started with the Gold standard, the abolition of which was only because States couldn't wage absolutely barbaric wars (Like the American Civil war, or both World Wars). Dont get started with a currency system that would prevent any sort of currency debasement (which would disproportionately hurt those in poverty).

No, just sweep it under the rug because CLEARLY fiat currency (which literally destroyed the economies of several nations throughout history) is superior to a currency backed by tangible wealth :roll:

Urban sprawl? Puh-leeze! Look up ANY Cato articles or lectures about this "suburban sprawl"

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

Hot-Tamale

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

You're taking individualism to the limits. Libertarians do not do that or believe it should be taken as such. They take it and use it as a backing for the majority of their ideology, that is true, but they don't take it to the extreme of "one man on his own doing things purely for himself," which is the way you described it. In society there are laws, and Libertarians are not Anarchists and thus they still need laws, just less of them regarding the personal lives of the collective populace. How else to discuss which laws should be enforced than at a collective meeting? One person doesn't make all of the laws, do they?

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

A gun will not harm anyone on it's own. There is no reason they should have that freedom taken away from them in the rare instance someone is killed (especially when Libertarians advocate a stronger peace-keeping force to begin with). If we did that for everything someone was killed by you might as well say goodbye to your knives, powertools, etc. It sounds like your argument is based on nothing other than preconceived, half-brained notions of what the ideology is about.

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

Well, the gold standard isn't something most Libertarians advocate anyway (at least the ones I've talked to). The rest is just a generalization. All Republicans are backwater hicks that live out in the country and all Democrats are immoral, welfare check and food stamp consuming buffoons.

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

Hot-Tamale

Libertarianism is just Anarchism for rich people.

Libertarianism is just Anarchism for rich people.

KG86

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="savebattery"] Libertarians, on the whole, believe that the only legitimate function is the protection of rights. In essence, you should be able to do whatever you please so long as you're not violating anyone else's rights to life, liberty, or property in the process. In addition, taxation that doesn't serve that direct purpose is theft. Also, there is so much ignorance and misconception in this thread regarding libertarian philosophy that I don't even know where to begin.savebattery

Well, ignorance and misconception are the prime means of spreading the Libertarian philosophy. It's very easy to make broad statements about moral stances and act as if that can be a legitimate political philosophy, it's quite another thing to actually put those principles to work. We've already seen how well heavy deregulation works, the guru of lassiez-faire, the bread and butter philiosophy of Libertarians, Alan Greenspan himself has said how deregulation fails if left unchecked. Libertarians are so keen on calling communism utopian, but I fail to see how the same doesn't apply to their political philosophy.

I never said Greenspan was a Libertarian, I said he was a championof lassiez-faire and that Libertarians advocated lassiez-faire. And no, we actually haven't regulated more every year since Reagan, quite the opposite in fact. We have done everything else that conservatives say they don't advocate but really do, such as spend money we don't have on wars, medicare increases, and basically spending in general, but we have, for the most part since Reagan, deregulated private industry. We've loosened banking regulations, we've loosened stock trading regulations, we haven't made a concerted effor to go after corporate fraud, we've rolled back estate taxes, corporate taxes, taxes on the wealthy, you name it, we've done it. Greenspan's mantra was basically deregulation and he was supported by both Republican and Democratic Presidents, I have no idea how you can say we haven't deregulated.

[QUOTE="KG86"]

Libertarianism is just Anarchism for rich people.

danwallacefan

But didn't Bill Gates work for his riches?