Some think the universe is infinite. It is my understanding that most physicists disagree with that notion. Why it's not infinite: -Consider the infinite ape conjecture: In the universe, there is an infinite amount of apes typing on computers, as infinity allows for all possibilities. It is mostly gibberish. But there will be some that type Shakespeares' Romeo and Juliet, verbatim. Actually, not some, but an infinite amount. -Consider the fact that if the universe is infinite, everywhere is the center, because at any one point, there is an infinite distance extending each direction. But how can you add to infinity? Imagine A and B are planets: A B Both have an infinite distance extending to the right. But as A is visibly left of B, each object that is an infinite distance away from B, and that distance plus the distance between A and B away from A. How can you add to infinity? Universe not being Infinite arguments: How is there an edge to the universe? Is there a wall? It is of my opinion that the universe is slightly curved. So slightly we can't detect it.
I am going to quote Eph. 1 and say, "according to the purpose of His will." He created when He did because He wanted to. I believe in aseity, so it wasn't because God needed any thing. .
It's quite possible we can't even know in the big picture. The universe as we know it...stars, galaxies, etc. That is finite. What we don't know is what the universe is expanding into. If there is a barrier or end to it, we can no longer ever detect it. Much like we can't go back further than the instant the big bang occured because of the Planck wall, as all natural laws break down and we cannot comprehend anything out of it.
 The place the physical universe, space, and time is expanding into may be infinite, but we can't really know. Not to say we shouldn't try our best to keep going as far as we can go, but we'll probably never get to that point.
Some think the universe is infinite. It is my understanding that most physicists disagree with that notion. Why it's not infinite: -Consider the infinite ape conjecture: In the universe, there is an infinite amount of apes typing on computers, as infinity allows for all possibilities. It is mostly gibberish. But there will be some that type Shakespeares' Romeo and Juliet, verbatim. Actually, not some, but an infinite amount. -Consider the fact that if the universe is infinite, everywhere is the center, because at any one point, there is an infinite distance extending each direction. But how can you add to infinity? Imagine A and B are planets: A B Both have an infinite distance extending to the right. But as A is visibly left of B, each object that is an infinite distance away from B, and that distance plus the distance between A and B away from A. How can you add to infinity? Universe not being Infinite arguments: How is there an edge to the universe? Is there a wall? It is of my opinion that the universe is slightly curved. So slightly we can't detect it.brucewayne69
None of your points put the slightest dent in the thesis that the universe is infinite, otherwise every physical law that contains a function of state wouldn't work. Also the concept of "adding to infinity" you're referring to is usually dealt with in the very first calculus course of any scientific oriented degree.
If anything we don't believe it's infinite because of the red shift.
It's quite possible we can't even know in the big picture. The universe as we know it...stars, galaxies, etc. That is finite. What we don't know is what the universe is expanding into. If there is a barrier or end to it, we can no longer ever detect it. Much like we can't go back further than the instant the big bang occured because of the Planck wall, as all natural laws break down and we cannot comprehend anything out of it.
 The place the physical universe, space, and time is expanding into may be infinite, but we can't really know. Not to say we shouldn't try our best to keep going as far as we can go, but we'll probably never get to that point.
InEMplease
Which totally sucks when you think about it.
Indeed, but I'm am proud that I am not afraid to say "I don't know" in response to questions I don't know the answer to. Much more honest than filling in the blanks with garabge
It isn't infinite, but it's apparently infinite. You cannot get to the edge of the universe, as it is expanding outward in front of you faster than light. In fact, some Galaxies we can see are retreating (apparently) faster than light.
The greater the distance between you and any given location in space, the faster it is moving away from you.
So in theory you could travel in a straight line forever and never hit the edge of the universe, but again this is only apparent infinity.
This ignoring of course the ultimate demise of the universe.
It isn't infinite, but it's apparently infinite. You cannot get to the edge of the universe, as it is expanding outward in front of you faster than light. In fact, some Galaxies we can see are retreating (apparently) faster than light.
The greater the distance between you and any given location in space, the faster it is moving away from you.
So in theory you could travel in a straight line forever and never hit the edge of the universe, but again this is only apparent infinity.
This ignoring of course the ultimate demise of the universe.
[QUOTE="brucewayne69"]Some think the universe is infinite. It is my understanding that most physicists disagree with that notion. Why it's not infinite: -Consider the infinite ape conjecture: In the universe, there is an infinite amount of apes typing on computers, as infinity allows for all possibilities. It is mostly gibberish. But there will be some that type Shakespeares' Romeo and Juliet, verbatim. Actually, not some, but an infinite amount. -Consider the fact that if the universe is infinite, everywhere is the center, because at any one point, there is an infinite distance extending each direction. But how can you add to infinity? Imagine A and B are planets: A B Both have an infinite distance extending to the right. But as A is visibly left of B, each object that is an infinite distance away from B, and that distance plus the distance between A and B away from A. How can you add to infinity? Universe not being Infinite arguments: How is there an edge to the universe? Is there a wall? It is of my opinion that the universe is slightly curved. So slightly we can't detect it.N30F3N1X
None of your points put the slightest dent in the thesis that the universe is infinite, otherwise every physical law that contains a function of state wouldn't work. Also the concept of "adding to infinity" you're referring to is usually dealt with in the very first calculus course of any scientific oriented degree.
If anything we don't believe it's infinite because of the red shift.
I have not gotten to calculus yet I'm sorry Obviously my points weren't going to prove anything, they were just some food for thought. This stuff is interesting
It's quite possible we can't even know in the big picture. The universe as we know it...stars, galaxies, etc. That is finite. What we don't know is what the universe is expanding into. If there is a barrier or end to it, we can no longer ever detect it. Much like we can't go back further than the instant the big bang occured because of the Planck wall, as all natural laws break down and we cannot comprehend anything out of it.
 The place the physical universe, space, and time is expanding into may be infinite, but we can't really know. Not to say we shouldn't try our best to keep going as far as we can go, but we'll probably never get to that point.
wis3boi
Brain hurts when I think of what the universe could expand into. Namely because I cannot think of what the universe could expand into. Mindblowing
Well considering scientists say they have a fairly accurate measurement of the universe (accurate in astronomical terms) it's clear that our universe is not infinite but has a finite amount of space. While that space is massive it certainly isn't infinite. You never never reach the end of the universe, as it is constantly expanding and upon reaching the "end" you would end up back at the beginning because of how science says our space time is shaped. Even still there is a limited amount of matter in our universe. It's possible that someone could know and see everything there is to possibly see in the universe. Can't happen practically but it is logically possible.
It's quite possible we can't even know in the big picture. The universe as we know it...stars, galaxies, etc. That is finite. What we don't know is what the universe is expanding into. If there is a barrier or end to it, we can no longer ever detect it. Much like we can't go back further than the instant the big bang occured because of the Planck wall, as all natural laws break down and we cannot comprehend anything out of it.
 The place the physical universe, space, and time is expanding into may be infinite, but we can't really know. Not to say we shouldn't try our best to keep going as far as we can go, but we'll probably never get to that point.
brucewayne69
Brain hurts when I think of what the universe could expand into. Namely because I cannot think of what the universe could expand into. Mindblowing The universe expands into nothing. There is nothing for it to expand into. It's a weird quantum phenomena that cannot really be understood. Nothing exists outside of our universe and yet our universe it expanding. There isn't a what to think about which makes it all the more difficult.
Well considering scientists say they have a fairly accurate measurement of the universe (accurate in astronomical terms) it's clear that our universe is not infinite but has a finite amount of space. While that space is massive it certainly isn't infinite. You never never reach the end of the universe, as it is constantly expanding and upon reaching the "end" you would end up back at the beginning because of how science says our space time is shaped. Even still there is a limited amount of matter in our universe. It's possible that someone could know and see everything there is to possibly see in the universe. Can't happen practically but it is logically possible. ferrari2001
They haven't approximated the size of the universe in whole, but merely the observable universe.
[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Well considering scientists say they have a fairly accurate measurement of the universe (accurate in astronomical terms) it's clear that our universe is not infinite but has a finite amount of space. While that space is massive it certainly isn't infinite. You never never reach the end of the universe, as it is constantly expanding and upon reaching the "end" you would end up back at the beginning because of how science says our space time is shaped. Even still there is a limited amount of matter in our universe. It's possible that someone could know and see everything there is to possibly see in the universe. Can't happen practically but it is logically possible. Mithrandir50
They haven't approximated the size of the universe in whole, but merely the observable universe. Yes but considering we've observed back to within very close to the big bang they've observed just about as much of the universe that you can possibly observe. Still doesn't change the fact that the universe contains a finite amount of matter and it's a closed system, at least according to physics.
I haven't read up on it on a while, but I recall that the universe is stretching and not expanding. Seemingly a mistake that many people keep on making.
I haven't read up on it on a while, but I recall that the universe is stretching and not expanding. Seemingly a mistake that many people keep on making.
rastotm
Well technically the universe is growing in size so expanding is an appropriate word. But yes stretching is even more accurate considering the universe is expanding into nothing.
I haven't read up on it on a while, but I recall that the universe is stretching and not expanding. Seemingly a mistake that many people keep on making.
ferrari2001
Well technically the universe is growing in size so expanding is an appropriate word. But yes stretching is even more accurate considering the universe is expanding into nothing. The distance between galaxies is growing, which would not happen if it was just growing in size. The term expanding is bound to confuse.
[QUOTE="Mithrandir50"][QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Well considering scientists say they have a fairly accurate measurement of the universe (accurate in astronomical terms) it's clear that our universe is not infinite but has a finite amount of space. While that space is massive it certainly isn't infinite. You never never reach the end of the universe, as it is constantly expanding and upon reaching the "end" you would end up back at the beginning because of how science says our space time is shaped. Even still there is a limited amount of matter in our universe. It's possible that someone could know and see everything there is to possibly see in the universe. Can't happen practically but it is logically possible. ferrari2001
They haven't approximated the size of the universe in whole, but merely the observable universe. Yes but considering we've observed back to within very close to the big bang they've observed just about as much of the universe that you can possibly observe. Nope, not true. For all we know, there may be other pinched out universes from the same big bang.
[QUOTE="ferrari2001"][QUOTE="Mithrandir50"] They haven't approximated the size of the universe in whole, but merely the observable universe.dramaybaz
Yes but considering we've observed back to within very close to the big bang they've observed just about as much of the universe that you can possibly observe. Nope, not true. For all we know, there may be other pinched out universes from the same big bang. His question was our universe. Is our universe infinite? No. Other universe are not a part of our universe (our finitely closed system). If you take into account the multiverse theory that says there are an infinite number of finite universes then I suppose you could say all of existence is infinite but not the universe. As our independent universe has a finite amount of matter making it finite. Our universe does not include those other universes, when talking about the multiverse theory you run into a lot of logic problems which makes that theory difficult to discuss.
[QUOTE="ferrari2001"] Yes but considering we've observed back to within very close to the big bang they've observed just about as much of the universe that you can possibly observe.ferrari2001
Nope, not true. For all we know, there may be other pinched out universes from the same big bang. His question was our universe. Is our universe infinite? No. Other universe are not a part of our universe (our finitely closed system). If you take into account the multiverse theory that says there are an infinite number of finite universes then I suppose you could say all of existence is infinite but not the universe. As our independent universe has a finite amount of matter making it finite. Our universe does not include those other universes, when talking about the multiverse theory you run into a lot of logic problems which makes that theory difficult to discuss. My comment was towards your statement "we've observed back to within very close to the big bang they've observed just about as much of the universe that you can possibly observe.", which isn't right. We most certainly have not observed most of everything since the Big Bang. Whether you want to call the pinched out Universe separate or part of he same universe depends on the definition of Universe. It may just be the light from those "separate" Universes has not reached us. Do you still call it as far as we have seen? Absolutely not.
I shouldn't have brought up multiverse, but the point I want to make is that just because we have seen a big chunk of the observable universe,, doesn't mean we have seen almost all of THE Universe, which is what the OP is talking about. The age of the Universe is 13.7 billion years, but it doesn't mean it's distance is just as big. It can actually be many times bigger.
Log in to comment