My house was broken into, and my dads a murder suspect?!?!

So I just got a call a while ago from my mom when I was leaving school....

Police broke into our house during the day about 12:00 today....I came home and doors, windows, and other crap was knocked over and broken.....BY THE POLICE

Apparently, last night, a murderer was running from the police, and hid in our neighborhood, where they lost him.... he dropped his gun in our front yard, and they are convinced my dad murdered someone.

My mom and I were explaining to the police that nothing at all happened, our dad wouldnt do that cause he was at work, that stuff.

So right now there is all this DNA testing and crime scene **** going on in my front yard and wherever, and our house is a **** mess.....some of my moms favorite porcelain jars from when she was a kid were destroyed when the police were looking for my dad.

Do you think the authorities should be given the right to do this?? The murderer is either still in our neighborhood or hundreds of miles away now, and my family is stuck with a bunch of bull****. Another thing that pisses me off is that we got pulled over in our boat the other day RIGHT NEXT TO THE **** DOCK because my 10 year old brother didnt have his lifejacket on. The government can pull us over for a 200 dollar fine for not wearing a worthless floating device, but they can destroy our house even when they are 50 percent sure that someone bad is in our house. TELL ME THATS NOT **** UP.

Well, since your nick is THE BRUTALIZER, I say... YOU DID IT!

If your father is truly innocent, he should have nothing to hide and cooperate with the police at hand.MissRiotmaker

Im sure he will be fine...but this is just ridiculous

I've always had an innate distrust of any authority figures.BlueBirdTS

i actually respected them until recently.....

If your father is truly innocent, he should have nothing to hide and cooperate with the police at hand.MissRiotmaker

True, but if they really messed things up as bad as you say then that is a bit outrageous.

[QUOTE="MissRiotmaker"]If your father is truly innocent, he should have nothing to hide and cooperate with the police at hand.bigboss00

True, but if they really messed things up as bad as you say then that is a bit outrageous.

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, less than a day after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

That sucks. If your dad is in any trouble and needs to go to court, I know the perfect guy that could help

just joking :P I hope your dad ends up okay.

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, less than a day after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

The_Mac_Daddy

Maybe they have more evidence than the TC knows about.

If your father is truly innocent, he should have nothing to hide and cooperate with the police at hand.MissRiotmaker

Because... we all know innnocent people never go to jail. At least 1/3 of the prison population is innocent for violent crimes.

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, 5 hours after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

The_Mac_Daddy

[QUOTE="MissRiotmaker"]If your father is truly innocent, he should have nothing to hide and cooperate with the police at hand.EMOEVOLUTION

Because... we all know innnocent people never go to jail. At least 1/3 of the prison population is innocent for violent crimes.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, less than a day after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

MrGeezer

Maybe they have more evidence than the TC knows about.

If anything, they got a warrant (highly doubtful consideing the crime just happened a day before the "broke in") and got the parents to comply. But since when do police officers break through windows and destroy property just to prove their point? and don't bring me some bogus case that you found from the 1970s in Detroit where some guy was falsely accussed.

And if the police are doing all of that CSI stuff in your front yard, you're house is trashed, your windows are smashed, your door is kicked down, and police are wandering around you're house (which they would be if your father is a prime murder suspect), then you would not be POSTING HERE.

You sir, are lying. I'm amazed at how many peopel believed him.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, 5 hours after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

Big_player

They would have no reason at all to get a warrant to search that specific house for that specific crime.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, less than a day after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

cpo335

Maybe they have more evidence than the TC knows about.

If anything, they got a warrant (highly doubtful consideing the crime just happened a day before the "broke in") and got the parents to comply. But since when do police officers break through windows and destroy property just to prove their point? and don't bring me some bogus case that you found from the 1970s in Detroit where some guy was falsely accussed.

And if the police are doing all of that CSI stuff in your front yard, you're house is trashed, your windows are smashed, your door is kicked down, and police are wandering around you're house (which they would be if your father is a prime murder suspect), then you would not be POSTING HERE.

You sir, are lying. I'm amazed at how many peopel believed him.

I don't think you read my post. The kid is saying that they're tearing up his house and there's not even any evidence that his dad is the killer. I'm saying that if they managed to get a warrant, maybe there really IS evidence that his dad is the killer.

I'm sure the guy doesn't want to think that his dad is a murderer. But for all anyone here knows, a dozen people could have IDed the guy, and he could've been caught on camera running down the street with the murder weapon.

[QUOTE="cpo335"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, less than a day after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

MrGeezer

Maybe they have more evidence than the TC knows about.

If anything, they got a warrant (highly doubtful consideing the crime just happened a day before the "broke in") and got the parents to comply. But since when do police officers break through windows and destroy property just to prove their point? and don't bring me some bogus case that you found from the 1970s in Detroit where some guy was falsely accussed.

And if the police are doing all of that CSI stuff in your front yard, you're house is trashed, your windows are smashed, your door is kicked down, and police are wandering around you're house (which they would be if your father is a prime murder suspect), then you would not be POSTING HERE.

You sir, are lying. I'm amazed at how many peopel believed him.

I don't think you read my post. The kid is saying that they're tearing up his house and there's not even any evidence that his dad is the killer. I'm saying that if they managed to get a warrant, maybe there really IS evidence that his dad is the killer.

I'm sure the guy doesn't want to think that his dad is a murderer. But for all anyone here knows, a dozen people could have IDed the guy, and he could've been caught on camera running down the street with the murder weapon.

Has no one here heard of probable cause? I would say finding a murder weapon in their front yard would give them all they need to search the house without a warrant.LukeAF24

Yeah, but at least in most people's homes, ANYONE has access to the front yard. If someone's running through the neighborhood with a gun and decides to ditch the gun, it's gonna end up on somebody's front lawn.

Shouldn't they follow all leads? If they find a gun at your property then it's common sense that they would suspect you of the crime. Just imagine it from their point of view. They find a gun at your house, should they just ignore the fact that it's at your house and look for the suspect elsewhere?

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]Has no one here heard of probable cause? I would say finding a murder weapon in their front yard would give them all they need to search the house without a warrant.MrGeezer

Yeah, but at least in most people's homes, ANYONE has access to the front yard. If someone's running through the neighborhood with a gun and decides to ditch the gun, it's gonna end up on somebody's front lawn.

True, but the point still stands. If the murder weapon is in someones front yard, that house would be the first place I would look. Especially if they were in pursuit.

Shouldn't they follow all leads? If they find a gun at your property then it's common sense that they would suspect you of the crime. Just imagine it from their point of view. They find a gun at your house, should they just ignore the fact that it's at your house and look for the suspect elsewhere?

BlackAlpha666

Since when is destroying property standard procedure in making an arrest?

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="cpo335"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, less than a day after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

cpo335

Maybe they have more evidence than the TC knows about.

If anything, they got a warrant (highly doubtful consideing the crime just happened a day before the "broke in") and got the parents to comply. But since when do police officers break through windows and destroy property just to prove their point? and don't bring me some bogus case that you found from the 1970s in Detroit where some guy was falsely accussed.

And if the police are doing all of that CSI stuff in your front yard, you're house is trashed, your windows are smashed, your door is kicked down, and police are wandering around you're house (which they would be if your father is a prime murder suspect), then you would not be POSTING HERE.

You sir, are lying. I'm amazed at how many peopel believed him.

I don't think you read my post. The kid is saying that they're tearing up his house and there's not even any evidence that his dad is the killer. I'm saying that if they managed to get a warrant, maybe there really IS evidence that his dad is the killer.

I'm sure the guy doesn't want to think that his dad is a murderer. But for all anyone here knows, a dozen people could have IDed the guy, and he could've been caught on camera running down the street with the murder weapon.

Yeah, but that's a "this story is bull****" issue, and not a "they had no right to search his home" issue.

I'm not making any claims as to whether or not this story is true or not. I'm just saying that if it were true, the police may very well have some extremely damning evidence that the TC's dad is the murderer.

Has no one here heard of probable cause? I would say finding a murder weapon in their front yard would give them all they need to search the house without a warrant.LukeAF24

Anybody could have just thrown the gun on the front lawn. If something like that was found, they would probably first, knock on their door and tell them the situation. They might ask to look around, question his mom if she's seen anything. And that would be that.

[QUOTE="BlackAlpha666"]

Shouldn't they follow all leads? If they find a gun at your property then it's common sense that they would suspect you of the crime. Just imagine it from their point of view. They find a gun at your house, should they just ignore the fact that it's at your house and look for the suspect elsewhere?

Gamer556

Since when is destroying property standard procedure in making an arrest?

What was destroyed? You sure it was destroyed and not just damaged slightly?

I'd just like to take a moment to suggest a fine product for your father......

[QUOTE="cpo335"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="cpo335"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

Umm... they cannot do that. You should sue the hell out of them. They cannot just break into your house anytime they feel like it and start collecting evidence. Especially only what, less than a day after the crime happened? And all the evidence they have is they found a gun on your front lawn?

They do not have permission to break into your house like that.

MrGeezer

Maybe they have more evidence than the TC knows about.

If anything, they got a warrant (highly doubtful consideing the crime just happened a day before the "broke in") and got the parents to comply. But since when do police officers break through windows and destroy property just to prove their point? and don't bring me some bogus case that you found from the 1970s in Detroit where some guy was falsely accussed.

And if the police are doing all of that CSI stuff in your front yard, you're house is trashed, your windows are smashed, your door is kicked down, and police are wandering around you're house (which they would be if your father is a prime murder suspect), then you would not be POSTING HERE.

You sir, are lying. I'm amazed at how many peopel believed him.

I don't think you read my post. The kid is saying that they're tearing up his house and there's not even any evidence that his dad is the killer. I'm saying that if they managed to get a warrant, maybe there really IS evidence that his dad is the killer.

I'm sure the guy doesn't want to think that his dad is a murderer. But for all anyone here knows, a dozen people could have IDed the guy, and he could've been caught on camera running down the street with the murder weapon.

Yeah, but that's a "this story is bull****" issue, and not a "they had no right to search his home" issue.

I'm not making any claims as to whether or not this story is true or not. I'm just saying that if it were true, the police may very well have some extremely damning evidence that the TC's dad is the murderer.

You should be able to get the money back on house insurance otherwise you may be able to sue them, they destroyed your possesions they're not above the law

eems a bit strange to blame your dad when all there is is a gun on your lawn, could've been thrown from a car window or somin, needs a DNA or at least fingerprint to try and proove anythiing

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]Has no one here heard of probable cause? I would say finding a murder weapon in their front yard would give them all they need to search the house without a warrant.LukeAF24

Yeah, but at least in most people's homes, ANYONE has access to the front yard. If someone's running through the neighborhood with a gun and decides to ditch the gun, it's gonna end up on somebody's front lawn.

True, but the point still stands. If the murder weapon is in someones front yard, that house would be the first place I would look. Especially if they were in pursuit.

Well I don't know the law, so maybe someone can fill me in on whether or not that's enough evidence for a warrant.

But logically speaking, finding a gun on someone's front lawn would actually suggest to me that the killer DOESN'T live there.

I mean, if you're gonna ditch a murder weapon, why would you leave it on your own front lawn, where anyone can find it? As stated, anyone has access to his front lawn, which means that his own front lawn is not even a plausible place for the dude's dad to leave a gun.

If you're going to ditch the gun, you ditch it SOMEWHERE ELSE. Preferably somewhere where no one will find it.

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]Has no one here heard of probable cause? I would say finding a murder weapon in their front yard would give them all they need to search the house without a warrant.MrGeezer

Yeah, but at least in most people's homes, ANYONE has access to the front yard. If someone's running through the neighborhood with a gun and decides to ditch the gun, it's gonna end up on somebody's front lawn.

True, but the point still stands. If the murder weapon is in someones front yard, that house would be the first place I would look. Especially if they were in pursuit.

Well I don't know the law, so maybe someone can fill me in on whether or not that's enough evidence for a warrant.

But logically speaking, finding a gun on someone's front lawn would actually suggest to me that the killer DOESN'T live there.

I mean, if you're gonna ditch a murder weapon, why would you leave it on your own front lawn, where anyone can find it? As stated, anyone has access to his front lawn, which means that his own front lawn is not even a plausible place for the dude's dad to leave a gun.

If you're going to ditch the gun, you ditch it SOMEWHERE ELSE. Preferably somewhere where no one will find it.

Well I don't know the law, so maybe someone can fill me in on whether or not that's enough evidence for a warrant.

But logically speaking, finding a gun on someone's front lawn would actually suggest to me that the killer DOESN'T live there.

I mean, if you're gonna ditch a murder weapon, why would you leave it on your own front lawn, where anyone can find it? As stated, anyone has access to his front lawn, which means that his own front lawn is not even a plausible place for the dude's dad to leave a gun.

If you're going to ditch the gun, you ditch it SOMEWHERE ELSE. Preferably somewhere where no one will find it.

MrGeezer

Logically, you would be correct. But, criminals, by definition, aren't logical. We aren't debating if that's enough for a warrant or not. We are debating if that is enough for probable cause to enter the home. I say it is. Can anyone just run by and toss the gun there? Sure can. But, that should certainly be the first place anyone would look. If someone tosses a bag of crack into the back seat of my car because my window was down, you sure as heck better believe to cops are searching my car if I get pulled over.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Well I don't know the law, so maybe someone can fill me in on whether or not that's enough evidence for a warrant.

But logically speaking, finding a gun on someone's front lawn would actually suggest to me that the killer DOESN'T live there.

I mean, if you're gonna ditch a murder weapon, why would you leave it on your own front lawn, where anyone can find it? As stated, anyone has access to his front lawn, which means that his own front lawn is not even a plausible place for the dude's dad to leave a gun.

If you're going to ditch the gun, you ditch it SOMEWHERE ELSE. Preferably somewhere where no one will find it.

LukeAF24

Logically, you would be correct. But, criminals, by definition, aren't logical. We aren't debating if that's enough for a warrant or not. We are debating if that is enough for probable cause to enter the home. I say it is. Can anyone just run by and toss the gun there? Sure can. But, that should certainly be the first place anyone would look. If someone tosses a bag of crack into the back seat of my car because my window was down, you sure as heck better believe to cops are searching my car if I get pulled over.

That's not a good analogy. It would be better if someone tosses some crack NEXT to your car.. not in it.

A gun on the lawn is NOT probable cause to enter the home. It might be probable cause to get a warrent to search the peremiter of the home.. but not the home itself, since there is no reason to believe the residents had anything to do with it.

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]Has no one here heard of probable cause? I would say finding a murder weapon in their front yard would give them all they need to search the house without a warrant.MrGeezer

Yeah, but at least in most people's homes, ANYONE has access to the front yard. If someone's running through the neighborhood with a gun and decides to ditch the gun, it's gonna end up on somebody's front lawn.

True, but the point still stands. If the murder weapon is in someones front yard, that house would be the first place I would look. Especially if they were in pursuit.

Well I don't know the law, so maybe someone can fill me in on whether or not that's enough evidence for a warrant.

But logically speaking, finding a gun on someone's front lawn would actually suggest to me that the killer DOESN'T live there.

I mean, if you're gonna ditch a murder weapon, why would you leave it on your own front lawn, where anyone can find it? As stated, anyone has access to his front lawn, which means that his own front lawn is not even a plausible place for the dude's dad to leave a gun.

If you're going to ditch the gun, you ditch it SOMEWHERE ELSE. Preferably somewhere where no one will find it.

A gun on a lawn would not be enough evidence for a search warrant at all. If a killer was running through a neighborhood with a gun, and they spot the gun on someone's lawn, then it's pretty obvious the killer just ditched the gun. I mean, the killer could live at the house where the gun was ditched... but they have absoluetly NO evidence of that.

So like I said, what would probably happen is, they would knock on the door of that house and explain to them the situation. Ask them if they can ask them some questions, then probably ask if they can search around the rest of the lawn. Give their name and ask them to call if they know anything. And that would be that.

That's not a good analogy. It would be better if someone tosses some crack NEXT to your car.. not in it.

The_Mac_Daddy

The crack is on my property. If it was on the street next to my car, it would NOT be on my property.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"][QUOTE="LukeAF24"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]Has no one here heard of probable cause? I would say finding a murder weapon in their front yard would give them all they need to search the house without a warrant.cpo335

Yeah, but at least in most people's homes, ANYONE has access to the front yard. If someone's running through the neighborhood with a gun and decides to ditch the gun, it's gonna end up on somebody's front lawn.

True, but the point still stands. If the murder weapon is in someones front yard, that house would be the first place I would look. Especially if they were in pursuit.

Well I don't know the law, so maybe someone can fill me in on whether or not that's enough evidence for a warrant.

But logically speaking, finding a gun on someone's front lawn would actually suggest to me that the killer DOESN'T live there.

I mean, if you're gonna ditch a murder weapon, why would you leave it on your own front lawn, where anyone can find it? As stated, anyone has access to his front lawn, which means that his own front lawn is not even a plausible place for the dude's dad to leave a gun.

If you're going to ditch the gun, you ditch it SOMEWHERE ELSE. Preferably somewhere where no one will find it.

Well, most people (killers or not) keep their guns inside their homes. You know, so that random passersby won't accidentally find it on the front lawn. The only reason to leave it on your front lawn (as opposed to in your own house) is if you think that there's enough evidence for your house to get searched (in which case you don't want the gun to be found in your house, since you then can't claim that someone else planted it there).

But the thing is, if you think that there's enough evidence for your house to be searched, you still don't leave the gun ON YOUR OWN FRONT LAWN. A gun on your front lawn might be evidence against you if there's already OTHER evidence against you.

That's all I'm saying. If there's absolutely NO evidence that the TC did the murder, and then the police find the gun on his front lawn, I'd assume that the killer just dropped it there. But if they ALREADY think that the TC's dad is the murderer, and THEN they find the gun on his front lawn, that's when I'd start to get suspicious.

But like I said before, I don't know what kind of evidence is required for a search warrant, so I'm probably wrong.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

That's not a good analogy. It would be better if someone tosses some crack NEXT to your car.. not in it.

LukeAF24

The crack is on my property. If it was on the street next to my car, it would NOT be on my property.

Cars and houses are different. There are different rules that police follow. So it was not a good analogy. But the best you could do with it was to say crack next to your car.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

That's not a good analogy. It would be better if someone tosses some crack NEXT to your car.. not in it.

LukeAF24

The crack is on my property. If it was on the street next to my car, it would NOT be on my property.

That's still different. Only you have access to your car. So if they find crack in your car, then they have reason to believe it's yours. That's NOT the same as finding crack (or a gun) on your front lawn.

And yeah, you mentioned that someone threw the crack in your car because you left the doors unlocked. Still, that's your fault for leaving the doors unlocked. A better analogy there would be if the cops found crack in your refrigerator because you left the front door open and a criminal walked INTO YOUR HOUSE and hid it there.

[QUOTE="LukeAF24"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

That's not a good analogy. It would be better if someone tosses some crack NEXT to your car.. not in it.

MrGeezer

The crack is on my property. If it was on the street next to my car, it would NOT be on my property.

That's still different. Only you have access to your car. So if they find crack in your car, then they have reason to believe it's yours. That's NOT the same as finding crack (or a gun) on your front lawn.

And yeah, you mentioned that someone threw the crack in your car because you left the doors unlocked. Still, that's your fault for leaving the doors unlocked. A better analogy there would be if the cops found crack in your refrigerator because you left the front door open and a criminal walked INTO YOUR HOUSE and hid it there.

I said windows rolled down, but that's irrelevant at this point.

I think everyone is missing the point here. You need to meet two criteria to prove probable cause:

1) A crime has been committed. - That's not disputed here.

2) There is a fair probability (a logical, reasonable belief) that a person or evidence to prove #1 above, will be found. I think everyone here would logically assume, that if a gun is found in someones yard, or a getaway car is parked in someones driveway, that would be enough to enter someones home.

You don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt here. You just need to have reasonable belief.