http://time.com/3660891/obama-proposes-free-community-college/
Not that this has much of a chance of seeing the light of day.
Obama finally does something I approve of.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Well, I once approved of something Obama (and Congress) did.
Repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
You see? Who says I ain't a reasonable person.
@Master_Live said:
Well, I once approved of something Obama did.
Repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
You see? Who says I ain't a reasonable person.
Oh yeah there's that too. Change thread title to first good thing in years then.
That is one positive thing that he is suggesting in years.
Took him long enough...
I hope this goes through
Yes, this is a great start. It's kind of disappointing reading so many comments of people that think this is a bad idea (not here on GS mind you).
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
This is going nowhere in Congress, most likely won't even get a vote on either House.
This is just a preamble to the SOTU. Throwing red meat out to the left but these proposals are forgotten a month after and are never heard again.
Consider this more of as "food for thought" than anything.
I'm in the camp that thinks this will never happen.
I think this is fucking great. Would be perfect. I love the idea of of allowing students who maintain good grades two years to take some gen-ed classes, get them out of the way, and give them time to decide what they really want to do - putting them in a great position when they go to a real University.
Until states start funding education more this won't happen. Cool idea though.
I'd be willing to listen and see how they'd pay for it. If it includes a tax increase I won't be for it, though.
Just Obama saying crap to pander to the Left and make the Repugs look silly if they don't act. He does this all the time, just like when he finally decided to support same sex marriage. He knows this will go nowhere, which is one reason why he said it.
@TheWalkingGhost said:
He knows this will go nowhere, which is one reason why he said it.
Precisely.
This idea actually stemmed from a Republican Governor.
Tennessee is doing something similar already
Community College isn't expensive. No need to push the cost on to taxpayers though.
Well nothing is free so that means more taxes more than likely.
should also bring back vocational high schools~
@Kevlar101 said:
Wow, now I am actually more motivated to go to a Community College when I am of age.
Awesome :D
And I feel like shit knowing I already have been to a community college and have thousands of dollars in debt. :(
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
@slateman_basic said:
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job.
This is what I am worried about as well. If people realize they can do 2 years of college for free they will more likely do 2 years at a community college and then 2 years for their bachelors degree elsewhere. This means 4 year colleges have fewer tuition paying students which means higher prices to get a bachelors degree. If the government is to take a free associates degree route, then they must also provide regulations that would limit the cost increase for a typical 4 year degree, or else colleges will severely increase costs to make up the difference.
CCs are already dirt cheap, so eh.
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
No, the problem is not enough government involvement. States have slashed funding for universities by significant amounts. You are right that universities jack up prices to make up the difference but it's not for the reason you think.
@Aljosa23 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
No, the problem is not enough government involvement. States have slashed funding for universities by significant amounts. You are right that universities jack up prices to make up the difference but it's not for the reason you think.
There are many problems that contribute to it (including government loans) but the big problem is that universities are for profit and have absolutely no responsibility or risk in the process.
@Aljosa23 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
No, the problem is not enough government involvement. States have slashed funding for universities by significant amounts. You are right that universities jack up prices to make up the difference but it's not for the reason you think.
Lol, please, just stop.
Even ten years ago, a college degree was much more affordable. Why have the costs skyrocketed so much? Two reasons:
1. Demand. Employers are now demanding a four year degree, even for entry level positions. Receptionist? Want a degree in communications or English. Public affairs specialist? Yea, gonna need to cough up that degree in media studies. The demand for a college degree has vastly increased.
2. Government backing for loans. No matter what, the school gets paid and the loan company gets paid. They can charge whatever they want and there are no repercussions for them. The schools get the money up front and the loan companies don't have to stress about collections, as they get their money, one way or another.
All this is going to do is increase the cost of tuition at four year universities. Staff isn't going to take lower salaries. Book companies aren't going to take less money. Classes aren't going to get less expensive. Not so long as employers are pretty much demanding that all their employees have degrees. Not so long as parents are telling their kids it doesn't matter what they study, just get a degree. Stop wasting money at the top and spend it at the bottom. Use the money to improve education in grade school, middle school and high school.
@slateman_basic said:
@Aljosa23 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
No, the problem is not enough government involvement. States have slashed funding for universities by significant amounts. You are right that universities jack up prices to make up the difference but it's not for the reason you think.
Lol, please, just stop.
Even ten years ago, a college degree was much more affordable. Why have the costs skyrocketed so much? Two reasons:
1. Demand. Employers are now demanding a four year degree, even for entry level positions. Receptionist? Want a degree in communications or English. Public affairs specialist? Yea, gonna need to cough up that degree in media studies. The demand for a college degree has vastly increased.
2. Government backing for loans. No matter what, the school gets paid and the loan company gets paid. They can charge whatever they want and there are no repercussions for them. The schools get the money up front and the loan companies don't have to stress about collections, as they get their money, one way or another.
All this is going to do is increase the cost of tuition at four year universities. Staff isn't going to take lower salaries. Book companies aren't going to take less money. Classes aren't going to get less expensive. Not so long as employers are pretty much demanding that all their employees have degrees. Not so long as parents are telling their kids it doesn't matter what they study, just get a degree. Stop wasting money at the top and spend it at the bottom. Use the money to improve education in grade school, middle school and high school.
That logic makes no sense to me. Yes you are right that the availability of government loans raises tuition, but why blame the government for backing the loans and not blame the schools for raising prices just because they can? The way I see it, the major problem is the schools themselves. They hold absolutely no accountability and nickle and dime their students every chance they get.
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Aljosa23 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
No, the problem is not enough government involvement. States have slashed funding for universities by significant amounts. You are right that universities jack up prices to make up the difference but it's not for the reason you think.
Lol, please, just stop.
Even ten years ago, a college degree was much more affordable. Why have the costs skyrocketed so much? Two reasons:
1. Demand. Employers are now demanding a four year degree, even for entry level positions. Receptionist? Want a degree in communications or English. Public affairs specialist? Yea, gonna need to cough up that degree in media studies. The demand for a college degree has vastly increased.
2. Government backing for loans. No matter what, the school gets paid and the loan company gets paid. They can charge whatever they want and there are no repercussions for them. The schools get the money up front and the loan companies don't have to stress about collections, as they get their money, one way or another.
All this is going to do is increase the cost of tuition at four year universities. Staff isn't going to take lower salaries. Book companies aren't going to take less money. Classes aren't going to get less expensive. Not so long as employers are pretty much demanding that all their employees have degrees. Not so long as parents are telling their kids it doesn't matter what they study, just get a degree. Stop wasting money at the top and spend it at the bottom. Use the money to improve education in grade school, middle school and high school.
That logic makes no sense to me. Yes you are right that the availability of government loans raises tuition, but why blame the government for backing the loans and not blame the schools for raising prices just because they can? The way I see it, the major problem is the schools themselves. They hold absolutely no accountability and nickle and dime their students every chance they get.
Because the government doesn't need to be that involved in the process of getting loans. By backing the loan, the loan company can give the loan to whomever they want, as they are guaranteed payment in one form or another. They have no self interest in investigating who is taking a student loan out. It wasn't always like this.
Colleges nickle and dime their students . . . just like every other company and agency in the world. You don't think grade schools aren't doing the same thing? The difference is, parents don't see an itemized bill. They just end up with higher taxes and no real clarity on where that extra money is going. They hold the same accountability as every other government agency and organization. And yet, this is the same government you want to be accountable for college educations? No thanks.
You're treating college education like it's a right. Like you deserve it. It's not and you don't. You earn it. That involves first qualifying for entrance in to college. And then finding a way to pay for it. It's an investment in yourself. You pay up front to get the degree and it makes you more money in the work force.
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Aljosa23 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
No, the problem is not enough government involvement. States have slashed funding for universities by significant amounts. You are right that universities jack up prices to make up the difference but it's not for the reason you think.
Lol, please, just stop.
Even ten years ago, a college degree was much more affordable. Why have the costs skyrocketed so much? Two reasons:
1. Demand. Employers are now demanding a four year degree, even for entry level positions. Receptionist? Want a degree in communications or English. Public affairs specialist? Yea, gonna need to cough up that degree in media studies. The demand for a college degree has vastly increased.
2. Government backing for loans. No matter what, the school gets paid and the loan company gets paid. They can charge whatever they want and there are no repercussions for them. The schools get the money up front and the loan companies don't have to stress about collections, as they get their money, one way or another.
All this is going to do is increase the cost of tuition at four year universities. Staff isn't going to take lower salaries. Book companies aren't going to take less money. Classes aren't going to get less expensive. Not so long as employers are pretty much demanding that all their employees have degrees. Not so long as parents are telling their kids it doesn't matter what they study, just get a degree. Stop wasting money at the top and spend it at the bottom. Use the money to improve education in grade school, middle school and high school.
That logic makes no sense to me. Yes you are right that the availability of government loans raises tuition, but why blame the government for backing the loans and not blame the schools for raising prices just because they can? The way I see it, the major problem is the schools themselves. They hold absolutely no accountability and nickle and dime their students every chance they get.
Because the government doesn't need to be that involved in the process of getting loans. By backing the loan, the loan company can give the loan to whomever they want, as they are guaranteed payment in one form or another. They have no self interest in investigating who is taking a student loan out. It wasn't always like this.
Colleges nickle and dime their students . . . just like every other company and agency in the world. You don't think grade schools aren't doing the same thing? The difference is, parents don't see an itemized bill. They just end up with higher taxes and no real clarity on where that extra money is going. They hold the same accountability as every other government agency and organization. And yet, this is the same government you want to be accountable for college educations? No thanks.
You're treating college education like it's a right. Like you deserve it. It's not and you don't. You earn it. That involves first qualifying for entrance in to college. And then finding a way to pay for it. It's an investment in yourself. You pay up front to get the degree and it makes you more money in the work force.
I am not saying the government should be responsible for college educations at all. I am saying that colleges should be accountable for college educations. Colleges make all these empty promises about how great a degree from their institution is and they have no responsibility to back up that statement. The best example of this is all the throw away degrees they offer than wont get you anywhere. These degrees exist solely for the college to make more money from students who are too confused to understand they shouldn't be going to college.
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Aljosa23 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
Long term, what does this accomplish? Community College really wasn't that expensive to begin with. Those who wanted to go, went. They worked, but they went to school. Now, if this included trade schools, it might be a more interesting development. You could have an actual skilled labor force, instead of a bunch of people who barely got out of high school trying to do things that they don't have the background or ability to do.
I fail to see how this is going to help anything. The problem isn't with the university system. The problem is the schooling before it. Spend money fixing that garbage and then let it play out. All this is going to do is increase the costs at traditional 4 year universities and graduate school.
If you honestly believe there is no problem with our current university system then i don't know what to tell you man....
The problem is government involvement in student loans and the fact that every employer wanted a college degree, regardless of position requirements or experience the candidate had.
This does nothing. Four year universities will simply jack up prices on courses to make up the difference. You will still need a four year degree to get a decent job. Within ten years, a masters will be needed for entry level positions. Having an associates degree will be like completing 8th grade . . . an automatic assumption.
No, the problem is not enough government involvement. States have slashed funding for universities by significant amounts. You are right that universities jack up prices to make up the difference but it's not for the reason you think.
Lol, please, just stop.
Even ten years ago, a college degree was much more affordable. Why have the costs skyrocketed so much? Two reasons:
1. Demand. Employers are now demanding a four year degree, even for entry level positions. Receptionist? Want a degree in communications or English. Public affairs specialist? Yea, gonna need to cough up that degree in media studies. The demand for a college degree has vastly increased.
2. Government backing for loans. No matter what, the school gets paid and the loan company gets paid. They can charge whatever they want and there are no repercussions for them. The schools get the money up front and the loan companies don't have to stress about collections, as they get their money, one way or another.
All this is going to do is increase the cost of tuition at four year universities. Staff isn't going to take lower salaries. Book companies aren't going to take less money. Classes aren't going to get less expensive. Not so long as employers are pretty much demanding that all their employees have degrees. Not so long as parents are telling their kids it doesn't matter what they study, just get a degree. Stop wasting money at the top and spend it at the bottom. Use the money to improve education in grade school, middle school and high school.
That logic makes no sense to me. Yes you are right that the availability of government loans raises tuition, but why blame the government for backing the loans and not blame the schools for raising prices just because they can? The way I see it, the major problem is the schools themselves. They hold absolutely no accountability and nickle and dime their students every chance they get.
Because the government doesn't need to be that involved in the process of getting loans. By backing the loan, the loan company can give the loan to whomever they want, as they are guaranteed payment in one form or another. They have no self interest in investigating who is taking a student loan out. It wasn't always like this.
Colleges nickle and dime their students . . . just like every other company and agency in the world. You don't think grade schools aren't doing the same thing? The difference is, parents don't see an itemized bill. They just end up with higher taxes and no real clarity on where that extra money is going. They hold the same accountability as every other government agency and organization. And yet, this is the same government you want to be accountable for college educations? No thanks.
You're treating college education like it's a right. Like you deserve it. It's not and you don't. You earn it. That involves first qualifying for entrance in to college. And then finding a way to pay for it. It's an investment in yourself. You pay up front to get the degree and it makes you more money in the work force.
I am not saying the government should be responsible for college educations at all. I am saying that colleges should be accountable for college educations.
And how do we go about that?
@Nick3306 said:
I am not saying the government should be responsible for college educations at all. I am saying that colleges should be accountable for college educations. Colleges make all these empty promises about how great a degree from their institution is and they have no responsibility to back up that statement. The best example of this is all the throw away degrees they offer than wont get you anywhere. These degrees exist solely for the college to make more money from students who are too confused to understand they shouldn't be going to college.
Promises? What promises do colleges make? It's called marketing.
Why do those "throwaway degrees" exist? Because students keep getting them. Because their is a demand for them. It's not the universities fault that dumb students decided to get communications degrees and can't do anything with it. It's the students fault for majoring in communications when they should have been studying computer science in the first place.
They're adults. They're responsible for their own decisions.
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
I am not saying the government should be responsible for college educations at all. I am saying that colleges should be accountable for college educations. Colleges make all these empty promises about how great a degree from their institution is and they have no responsibility to back up that statement. The best example of this is all the throw away degrees they offer than wont get you anywhere. These degrees exist solely for the college to make more money from students who are too confused to understand they shouldn't be going to college.
Promises? What promises do colleges make? It's called marketing.
Why do those "throwaway degrees" exist? Because students keep getting them. Because their is a demand for them. It's not the universities fault that dumb students decided to get communications degrees and can't do anything with it. It's the students fault for majoring in communications when they should have been studying computer science in the first place.
They're adults. They're responsible for their own decisions.
In your perfect world, this would be acceptable and I believe they should be responsible for their own actions. Here in the real world however, these degrees end up driving up prices as more kids go to school and take out loans and get nothing in return. And there is a fine line between marketing and promising things that you are not sure you can deliver. If redbull can get sued for not giving you wings, I dont think it is too far fetched to call out schools for not delivering on how highly they say their degrees are valued.
@Master_Live I didn't say I had the answers, just discussing problems.
@Storm_Marine:
There is a few small barriers, but the one that made me laugh was when some lady from the press was saying that the Government actually made it harder to go to school now versus a Pell Grant. Supposedly one of the rules to getting free schooling was you have to have at least a 2.5 GPA Pffttthahahaha! If you can't at least keep a 2.5 you don't belong in any school lol
That will still require people to motivate themselves to go to class and achieve something.
@Nick3306 said:
@slateman_basic said:
@Nick3306 said:
I am not saying the government should be responsible for college educations at all. I am saying that colleges should be accountable for college educations. Colleges make all these empty promises about how great a degree from their institution is and they have no responsibility to back up that statement. The best example of this is all the throw away degrees they offer than wont get you anywhere. These degrees exist solely for the college to make more money from students who are too confused to understand they shouldn't be going to college.
Promises? What promises do colleges make? It's called marketing.
Why do those "throwaway degrees" exist? Because students keep getting them. Because their is a demand for them. It's not the universities fault that dumb students decided to get communications degrees and can't do anything with it. It's the students fault for majoring in communications when they should have been studying computer science in the first place.
They're adults. They're responsible for their own decisions.
In your perfect world, this would be acceptable and I believe they should be responsible for their own actions. Here in the real world however, these degrees end up driving up prices as more kids go to school and take out loans and get nothing in return. And there is a fine line between marketing and promising things that you are not sure you can deliver. If redbull can get sued for not giving you wings, I dont think it is too far fetched to call out schools for not delivering on how highly they say their degrees are valued.
@Master_Live I didn't say I had the answers, just discussing problems.
Oh, those poor, poor victims. Tricked in to thinking that basket weaving and women's studies will get them top paying jobs in America. For shame, for shame.
This isn't some perfect world thinking. This is preparing them for the real world. The choices that are made in college will affect them for the rest of their lives. The types of degrees aren't the problems. If there were only four concentrations in everything, the costs would still be high because employers would still be demanding candidates with a college degree.
Degrees are valued. But that value is always compared with simply getting a HS diploma. Which is all any university ever does. There's a monumental difference between saying, "If you drink this, you'll get wings," and "If you go to school here, you will increase your chances of gaining more income." If anything, colleges spend more time and money marketing their school to get students. They constantly talk about professor/student interaction, university sports, and college life. There are very few universities that look to market based on the type or quality of their programs.
And, honestly, if you're so dumb as to think that a garbage degree will actually get you anywhere in life, you deserve to be 50k in debt. You made a terrible life decision and either did no research in to what you were going to do with that degree, or you ignored your research. And your line of thinking actually explains a lot about several young college graduates I know. They complain that a degree in History or English is worthless. Yet I know people with those degrees who make plenty of money.
If they do that they should also forgive 2 years worth of debt for those who have already went there and had to pay for it. Also this proposal seems unfair to those who go straight to a regular college and have to pay.
@GamingTitan said:
should also bring back vocational high schools~
There is a vocational high school in my city, run by the state. The local public high school also has a vocational agriculture program.
@Storm_Marine: See, he and his masters do something for the people every so often. Its easy to keep the sheep happy :)
Lets say the government finds a way to pay for this that doesn't raise taxes on the middle class in any way, shape or form. For those people that squander their opportunity and fail out of this program, will they have to pay back the money?
That, to me, seems like the only way someone will actually complete this.
Why should I pay for someones education? What does that teach someone??? That they can get by on the back of others? We should be paying for this on our own, and stop looking to the government for everything. We have way to much government dependency as it is.
I don't think it will happen.
Would be neat though. Get two years out of the way and then use my GI Bill to finish up my bachelor's and get a masters out of it too.
I'm actually surprised I haven't seen the same argument against raising the minimum wage for this. Something like, "If everyone had an associates degree then that degree would be meaningless."
@mgools said:
Why should I pay for someones education? What does that teach someone??? That they can get by on the back of others? We should be paying for this on our own, and stop looking to the government for everything. We have way to much government dependency as it is.
Because we already do when it comes to k-12 education, and back then, that was sufficient to get a good job. Now it's not. Now, a bachelors is a requirement for most careers thanks to a high inflation of students wanting a bachelors and businesses demanding a better educated workforce. And despite having a larger amount of educated people, some can't find jobs or those who do find jobs still have to pay off their debt thanks to college tuition and other costs skyrocketing due to demand. This also coincides with stagnating wages and creeping costs.
I would probably agree with you if we were living in the 50s or 60s but today, a bachelors is needed. Back then, a high school grad could probably be a legal assistant or a secretary or a clerk runner but now most of those jobs require a bachelors. It's ridiculous but with a more educated crowd, standards will be raised.
Either college should be free or partially free, make high school matter more, states start funding their universities like back then, or somehow convince firms to stop discriminating against those with high school degrees. You can argue personal responsibility as much as you want but today, college is insanely expensive and is practically needed for most careers, and with everyone going, it's not going to let up soon. If it was the 50s or 60s, you could pay it off with a part time job while going to college. Try doing that today.
@drunk_pi said:
@mgools said:
Why should I pay for someones education? What does that teach someone??? That they can get by on the back of others? We should be paying for this on our own, and stop looking to the government for everything. We have way to much government dependency as it is.
Because we already do when it comes to k-12 education, and back then, that was sufficient to get a good job. Now it's not. Now, a bachelors is a requirement for most careers thanks to a high inflation of students wanting a bachelors and businesses demanding a better educated workforce. And despite having a larger amount of educated people, some can't find jobs or those who do find jobs still have to pay off their debt thanks to college tuition and other costs skyrocketing due to demand. This also coincides with stagnating wages and creeping costs.
I would probably agree with you if we were living in the 50s or 60s but today, a bachelors is needed. Back then, a high school grad could probably be a legal assistant or a secretary or a clerk runner but now most of those jobs require a bachelors. It's ridiculous but with a more educated crowd, standards will be raised.
Either college should be free or partially free, make high school matter more, states start funding their universities like back then, or somehow convince firms to stop discriminating against those with high school degrees. You can argue personal responsibility as much as you want but today, college is insanely expensive and is practically needed for most careers, and with everyone going, it's not going to let up soon. If it was the 50s or 60s, you could pay it off with a part time job while going to college. Try doing that today.
K-12 and College is state and not federal. We have become so accustom to entitlements from the federal government that we actually support these types of programs. When government was out of our lives things were much better. Wish we were back in the 50s where people worked for what they got and didn't expect others to pay for it.
FYI...Nothing is free. Get the federal government involved, and you will be paying more in the long run.
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