Obama signs 4-year Patriot Act extension in France

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KH-mixerX

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#1 KH-mixerX
Member since 2007 • 5702 Posts

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110527/ap_on_go_co/us_patriot_act

WASHINGTON – Congress on Thursday passed a four-year extension of post-Sept. 11 powers to search records and conduct roving wiretaps in pursuit of terrorists. Votes taken in rapid succession in the Senate and House came after lawmakers rejected attempts to temper the law enforcement powers to ensure that individual liberties are not abused.

Following the 250-153 evening vote in the House, the legislation to renew three terrorism-fighting authorities headed for the president's signature with only hours to go before the provisions expire at midnight.

With Obama currently in France, the White House said the president would use an autopen machine that holds a pen and signs his actual signature. It is only used with proper authorization of the president. Minutes before the midnight deadline, the White House said Obama had signed the bill.

Obama said he was pleased the act had been extended.

"It's an important tool for us to continue dealing with an ongoing terrorist threat," he said after a meeting with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.


A short-term expiration would not interrupt ongoing operations but would bar the government from seeking warrants for new investigations.

Congress bumped up against the deadline mainly because of the stubborn resistance from a single senator, Republican freshman Rand Paul of Kentucky, who saw the terrorist-hunting powers as an abuse of privacy rights. Paul held up the final vote for several days while he demanded a chance to change the bill to diminish the government's ability to monitor individual actions. The bill passed the Senate 72-23.

The measure would add four years to the legal life of roving wiretaps — those authorized for a person rather than a communications line or device — of court-ordered searches of business records and of surveillance of non-American "lone wolf" suspects without confirmed ties to terrorist groups.

The roving wiretaps and access to business records are small parts of the USA Patriot Act enacted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. But unlike most of the act, which is permanent law, those provisions must be renewed periodically because of concerns that they could be used to violate privacy rights. The same applies to the "lone wolf" provision, which was part of a 2004 intelligence law.

Paul argued that in the rush to meet the terrorist threat in 2001 Congress enacted a Patriot Act that tramples on individual liberties. He had some backing from liberal Democrats and civil liberties groups who have long contended the law gives the government authority to spy on innocent citizens.

Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said he voted for the act when he was a House member in 2001 "while ground zero was still burning." But "I soon realized it gave too much power to government without enough judicial and congressional oversight."

Sen. Mark Udall, D-Colo., said the provision on collecting business records can expose law-abiding citizens to government scrutiny. "If we cannot limit investigations to terrorism or other nefarious activities, where do they end?" he asked.

"The Patriot Act has been used improperly again and again by law enforcement to invade Americans' privacy and violate their constitutional rights," said Laura W. Murphy, director of the ACLU Washington legislative office.

Still, coming just a month after intelligence and military forces tracked down and killed Osama bin Laden, there was little appetite for tampering with the terrorism-fighting tools. These tools, said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, "have kept us safe for nearly a decade and Americans today should be relieved and reassured to know that these programs will continue."

Intelligence officials have denied improper use of surveillance tools, and this week both FBI Director Robert Mueller and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper sent letters to congressional leaders warning of serious national security consequences if the provisions were allowed to lapse.

The Obama administration says that without the three authorities the FBI might not be able to obtain information on terrorist plotting inside the U.S. and that a terrorist who communicates using different cell phones and email accounts could escape timely surveillance.

"When the clock strikes midnight tomorrow, we would be giving terrorists the opportunity to plot attacks against our country, undetected," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said on the Senate floor Wednesday. In unusually personal criticism of a fellow senator, he warned that Paul, by blocking swift passage of the bill, "is threatening to take away the best tools we have for stopping them."

The nation itself is divided over the Patriot Act, as reflected in a Pew Research Center poll last February, before the killing of bin Laden, that found that 34 percent felt the law "goes too far and poses a threat to civil liberties. Some 42 percent considered it "a necessary tool that helps the government find terrorists." That was a slight turnaround from 2004 when 39 percent thought it went too far and 33 percent said it was necessary.

Paul, after complaining that Reid's remarks were "personally insulting," asked whether the nation "should have some rules that say before they come into your house, before they go into your banking records, that a judge should be asked for permission, that there should be judicial review? Do we want a lawless land?"

Paul agreed to let the bill go forward after he was given a vote on two amendments to rein in government surveillance powers. Both were soundly defeated. The more controversial, an amendment that would have restricted powers to obtain gun records in terrorist investigations, was defeated 85-10 after lawmakers received a letter from the National Rifle Association stating that it was not taking a position on the measure.

According to a senior Justice Department national security official testifying to Congress last March, the government has sought roving wiretap authority in about 20 cases a year between 2001 and 2010 and has sought warrants for business records less than 40 times a year, on average. The government has yet to use the lone wolf authority.

But the ACLU also points out that court approvals for business record access jumped from 21 in 2009 to 96 last year, and the organization contends the Patriot Act has blurred the line between investigations of actual terrorists and those not suspected of doing anything wrong.

Two Democratic critics of the Patriot Act, Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon and Udall of Colorado, on Thursday extracted a promise from Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., that she would hold hearings with intelligence and law enforcement officials on how the law is being carried out.

Wyden says that while there are numerous interpretations of how the Patriot Act works, the official government interpretation of the law remains ****fied. "A significant gap has developed now between what the public thinks the law says and what the government secretly claims it says," Wyden said.

_____________

Thoughts?


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Firebird-5

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#2 Firebird-5
Member since 2007 • 2848 Posts

whenever someone says PATRIOT Act it reminds me of that time palpatine got emergency powers in star wars lol

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Danm_999

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#3 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts

Wyden says that while there are numerous interpretations of how the Patriot Act works, the official government interpretation of the law remains ****fied. "A significant gap has developed now between what the public thinks the law says and what the government secretly claims it says," Wyden said.

_____________

Thoughts?


KH-mixerX

Wow, how is that above board in any sense of the word?

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dercoo

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#4 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

Tis a lie, only evil republicans support the Patriot act

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Mafiree

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#5 Mafiree
Member since 2008 • 3704 Posts
change you can believe in /sarcasm
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manbearpig654

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#6 manbearpig654
Member since 2010 • 110 Posts

Why can't this thing just die already?

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dercoo

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#7 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

Why can't this thing just die already?

manbearpig654

Because media lobbyist are slowly pushing it to be used to fight piracy:P

:|, sadly migh be true

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JustusCF

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#8 JustusCF
Member since 2009 • 1050 Posts

Well, I agree with what Obama previously said:

I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom. That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens that are not suspected of a crime.


"That is not who we are."

Not surprised though, he's a politician. It's not like democrats are any more honest than republicans, they're just populists and are much better at selling their positions... Most of the time.

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YellowOneKinobi

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#9 YellowOneKinobi
Member since 2011 • 4128 Posts

So, I guess this is another thing that Bush was right about. Interesting.

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LJS9502_basic

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#10 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180122 Posts
And we see the promise of change was just a political slogan. It's more of the same...
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Netherscourge

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#11 Netherscourge
Member since 2003 • 16364 Posts

If you want privacy, stay in your house, pull down the shades, lock your doors and disconnect your phones and your modems.

Otherwise, your life is an open book.

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Danm_999

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#12 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts

If you want privacy, stay in your house, pull down the shades, lock your doors and disconnect your phones and your modems.

Otherwise, your life is an open book.

Netherscourge
Assuming listening devices haven't already been planted :P
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CycleOfViolence

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#13 CycleOfViolence
Member since 2011 • 2813 Posts

[QUOTE="Netherscourge"]

If you want privacy, stay in your house, pull down the shades, lock your doors and disconnect your phones and your modems.

Otherwise, your life is an open book.

Danm_999

Assuming listening devices haven't already been planted :P

Shh...shh...they're on to you. Keep it quiet.

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CycleOfViolence

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#14 CycleOfViolence
Member since 2011 • 2813 Posts

Very much an Election 2012 move. If Obama were to veto the bill, the Republicans could run on the "Obama isn't protecting America" platform and swing a lot of support towards them.

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surrealnumber5

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#15 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

Very much an Election 2012 move. If Obama were to veto the bill, the Republicans could run on the "Obama isn't protecting America" platform and swing a lot of support towards them.

CycleOfViolence

yea that would work if the voters liked the patriot act.........

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Maniacc1

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#16 Maniacc1
Member since 2006 • 5354 Posts
The Patriot Act is the most un-Constitutional bill in America today. Shame to see it renewed.
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surrealnumber5

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#17 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

The Patriot Act is the most un-Constitutional bill in America today. Shame to see it renewed. Maniacc1
for asecond time *sigh*

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LJS9502_basic

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#18 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180122 Posts

Very much an Election 2012 move. If Obama were to veto the bill, the Republicans could run on the "Obama isn't protecting America" platform and swing a lot of support towards them.

CycleOfViolence
How so? It's not popular....
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CycleOfViolence

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#19 CycleOfViolence
Member since 2011 • 2813 Posts

[QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

Very much an Election 2012 move. If Obama were to veto the bill, the Republicans could run on the "Obama isn't protecting America" platform and swing a lot of support towards them.

LJS9502_basic

How so? It's not popular....

I'm playing with hypotheticals here but a Republican candidate, who supported the renewal, could use this against were he to veto it. I know its unpopular, but not to all Americans (especially those with the "I'm not doing anything wrong, only the guilty should worry"), so it is something that could be used against him. Since he did support it this won't be an issue.

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fueled-system

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#20 fueled-system
Member since 2008 • 6529 Posts

The Patriot Act is the most un-Constitutional bill in America today. Shame to see it renewed. Maniacc1
no its not...

I hate to tell you this but this thing has been happening BEFORE the Patriot Act existed...

You might want to look into this a bit more it is quite interesting

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surrealnumber5

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#21 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

Very much an Election 2012 move. If Obama were to veto the bill, the Republicans could run on the "Obama isn't protecting America" platform and swing a lot of support towards them.

CycleOfViolence

How so? It's not popular....

I'm playing with hypotheticals here but a Republican candidate, who supported the renewal, could use this against were he to veto it. I know its unpopular, but not to all Americans (especially those with the "I'm not doing anything wrong, only the guilty should worry"), so it is something that could be used against him. Since he did support it this won't be an issue.

i dont see that view from republicans around here GS or from republicans in my state, the only ones that argue that kind of logic are self proclaimed "progressives" here, so that would only be the ultra uber left, but again i only speak form my own observations.

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surrealnumber5

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#22 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]The Patriot Act is the most un-Constitutional bill in America today. Shame to see it renewed. fueled-system

no its not...

I hate to tell you this but this thing has been happening BEFORE the Patriot Act existed...

You might want to look into this a bit more it is quite interesting

youre right the most un-constitutional bill ever was the first new deal.

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CycleOfViolence

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#23 CycleOfViolence
Member since 2011 • 2813 Posts

i dont see that view from republicans around here GS or from republicans in my state, the only ones that argue that kind of logic are self proclaimed "progressives" here, so that would only be the ultra uber left, but again i only speak form my own observations.

surrealnumber5

I just feel something like this would be something to run on, since a majority of Republicans voted to extend it and some people had expressed concern in the past over Obama's ability to protect the U.S.

I'm loosely connecting the two but again, this is all hypotheticals.

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surrealnumber5

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#24 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

i dont see that view from republicans around here GS or from republicans in my state, the only ones that argue that kind of logic are self proclaimed "progressives" here, so that would only be the ultra uber left, but again i only speak form my own observations.

CycleOfViolence

I just feel something like this would be something to run on, since a majority of Republicans voted to extend it and some people had expressed concern in the past over Obama's ability to protect the U.S.

I'm loosely connecting the two but again, this is all hypotheticals.

from a political pov sure, but if you look at approval ratings of the government in general, they are completely out of touch with the people.

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Riverwolf007

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#25 Riverwolf007
Member since 2005 • 26023 Posts

i'll be shocked if the patriot act ever goes away.

what govt would ever give up illegal and almost unlimited information collection?

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flazzle

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#26 flazzle
Member since 2007 • 6507 Posts

So, I guess this is another thing that Bush was right about. Interesting.

YellowOneKinobi

No kidding.

How times have changed...

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/10/31/102047.shtml

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weezyfb

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#27 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts

a politician won't give up that kind of power....if you were pres you wouldn't either. The Gov was doing alot of the stuff in the Act before it came in fruition

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surrealnumber5

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#28 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts

a politician won't give up that kind of power....if you were pres you wouldn't either. The Gov was doing alot of the stuff in the Act before it came in fruition

weezyfb

i am willing to say i would give up that power and many more presidential powers if i were president, but that would be to fit my own greedy view of what that role is meant to be in our government

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#29 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

So, I guess this is another thing that Bush was right about. Interesting.

YellowOneKinobi

Or they are BOTH wrong about it.. The Patriot Act stomped all over things like hebus corpus and was a spring board in condoning and allowing torture.. It was also a complete over reaction to what happened.. Yes 9/11 was terrible act, it will be remembered as thus.. Each life is precious as shown with this.. But if each life is precious why aren't we having the same fear mongering in things like influenza, car accidents, and other such things.. Stuff that claim far more people a year than anything CLOSE to terrorist attacks or the threat of one. From a pragmatic third person view of the policy it seems nonsensical at best.. Not to mention to me its feeds into the whole tampering of things like freedom of speech when that man burned the Koran.. To me I become leery whenever people like Karl Rove and Hilary Clinton begin saying that speech is a threat to every one since we are at war.. This exact same logic was used in Woodrow Wilson in which he passeda bill that would charge any one with a act of treason if they were critical towards the government.. That to me is a key feature of a tyranical government with a secret police.

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KH-mixerX

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#30 KH-mixerX
Member since 2007 • 5702 Posts

I will always support the Patriot Act. And besides, somebody here already pointed out that they are going to tap our phones, monitor our e-mails, etc, with or without the act in place. And I agree.

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Lotus-Edge

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#31 Lotus-Edge
Member since 2008 • 50513 Posts
Is it odd that the most intersting in that post, to me anyway, is the autopen machine?