Obama's dangerous plan for dealing with Iran.

He's not even president yet :?Jandurin

He's not even president yet :?Jandurin

I'm not bothered and by the way Muslims don't have religious mandates to kill Jews...AnObscureName

I am totally against any support for Israel.gobo212

He's not even president yet :?Jandurin

He's allowed to have plans for when he is president. . . .

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]He's not even president yet :?Theokhoth

He's allowed to have plans for when he is president. . . .

I am totally against any support for Israel.gobo212

[QUOTE="gobo212"]I am totally against any support for Israel.superheromonkey

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"][QUOTE="gobo212"]I am totally against any support for Israel.Franklinstein

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

How would bombing Iran in retaliation of Israel getting bombed galvanize a world war?LikeHaterade

Honestly, I agree with you. I'm sure people said the same thing for if we attacked Afghanistan, or if we attacked Vietnam, or if we attacked Iraq, or if we attack Korea, or etc, etc, etc.

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"][QUOTE="gobo212"]I am totally against any support for Israel.Franklinstein

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"] so we shouldn't respect and protect the sovereignty of nations?Jandurin

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

Great!, thanks alot, now I have to go listen to that song, lol. That song is so hilarious.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"]I'm not bothered and by the way Muslims don't have religious mandates to kill Jews...superheromonkey

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"] so we shouldn't respect and protect the sovereignty of nations?superheromonkey

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

[QUOTE="gobo212"]I am totally against any support for Israel.superheromonkey

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"][QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

AnObscureName

He didn't say America decides what nations have the right to exist. . . .in case you haven't noticed, America isn't trying to wipe out whole countries and replace them with new ones. He said "We as a community," meaning the entire world and the United Nations.

[QUOTE="gobo212"]I am totally against any support for Israel.superheromonkey

Hahahaha, you're joking right? We haven't been respecting the "sovereignty" of nations for quite some time...remember the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq??? Good ol' vanishing WMD's.

Secondly, how does one "respect the sovereignty of nations" by invading one (Iran)? We have enough wars already, thank you. Enough needless blood has been shed. And by the way, the Iranian people aren't the problem...in fact they were, Pre-Bush anyway, fond of America. It's the leadership in that country that's troubling, not the citizenry. But ignorant talk like this thread is another example of pushing the good-will of the globe away while cultivating exactly what produces terrorism and hate for the US.

The Bush Doctrine is a recipe for endless war...pre-emptive attacks are not a smart strategy, let alone the moral implications for attacking someone who has not attacked you.

I'm just glad we'll have intelligence at least, restored to the White House on Jan. 20th.

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"] so we shouldn't respect and protect the sovereignty of nations?superheromonkey

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

If you are suggesting that isolationism was tried in WWI, and WWII, it wasn't, because we never actually took our hands out of everyone elses' bussiness. And that is besides the point, because as a country back then, we were doing better. Right now though, we are having some serious problems, and I'm not just talking about Economic bumps and all that, this has been going on since the 80's, we have a serious problem with poverty in the U.S. I believe the number is somewhere in the upper 30 millions. Not to mention, what is unemployment right now around 6%? And a big idea in the whole presidential race, health care. I'm pretty sure crime rates are not to low right now although I'm not sure. Look, my point is, our Nation is not in a good way right now, and it needs some mending.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"][QUOTE="superheromonkey"] isolationism has already proven to be ineffective. If we don't as a community of the world defend nations' rights to exist then we are all eventually screwed. Theokhoth

He didn't say America decides what nations have the right to exist. . . .in case you haven't noticed, America isn't trying to wipe out whole countries and replace them with new ones. He said "We as a community," meaning the entire world and the United Nations.

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"][QUOTE="gobo212"]I am totally against any support for Israel.Leostatic

Hahahaha, you're joking right? We haven't been respecting the "sovereignty" of nations for quite some time...remember the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq??? Good ol' vanishing WMD's.

Secondly, how does one "respect the sovereignty of nations" by invading one (Iran)? We have enough wars already, thank you. Enough needless blood has been shed. And by the way, the Iranian people aren't the problem...in fact they were, Pre-Bush anyway, fond of America. It's the leadership in that country that's troubling, not the citizenry. But ignorant talk like this thread is another example of pushing the good-will of the globe away while cultivating exactly what produces terrorism and hate for the US.

The Bush Doctrine is a recipe for endless war...pre-emptive attacks are not a smart strategy, let alone the moral implications for attacking someone who has not attacked you.

I'm just glad we'll have intelligence at least, restored to the White House on Jan. 20th.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="AnObscureName"] And who are America to decide what nations have a right to exist?gobo212

He didn't say America decides what nations have the right to exist. . . .in case you haven't noticed, America isn't trying to wipe out whole countries and replace them with new ones. He said "We as a community," meaning the entire world and the United Nations.

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"][QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

I believe we should take care of ourselves, before we go and try to 'save the world'.

Franklinstein

If you are suggesting that isolationism was tried in WWI, and WWII, it wasn't, because we never actually took our hands out of everyone elses' bussiness. And that is besides the point, because as a country back then, we were doing better. Right now though, we are having some serious problems, and I'm not just talking about Economic bumps and all that, this has been going on since the 80's, we have a serious problem with poverty in the U.S. I believe the number is somewhere in the upper 30 millions. Not to mention, what is unemployment right now around 6%? And a big idea in the whole presidential race, health care. I'm pretty sure crime rates are not to low right now although I'm not sure. Look, my point is, our Nation is not in a good way right now, and it needs some mending.

Holy Hell, This is NOT the place for intellectuallism or historical facts apparently...we were in a better position in WWII??? Unemployment then was almost 33%! We were in the midst of the Great Depression...besides that little tidbit of history, I agree that we're in a terrible position abroad and at home. A lot of "mending" needs to be done before we can even think of exerting our military might. We're stretched to the breaking point already...

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"][QUOTE="superheromonkey"] isolationism has already proven to be ineffective. If we don't as a community of the world defend nations' rights to exist then we are all eventually screwed. Theokhoth

He didn't say America decides what nations have the right to exist. . . .in case you haven't noticed, America isn't trying to wipe out whole countries and replace them with new ones. He said "We as a community," meaning the entire world and the United Nations.

[QUOTE="Leostatic"]

[QUOTE="superheromonkey"] so we shouldn't respect and protect the sovereignty of nations?sonicare

Hahahaha, you're joking right? We haven't been respecting the "sovereignty" of nations for quite some time...remember the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq??? Good ol' vanishing WMD's.

Secondly, how does one "respect the sovereignty of nations" by invading one (Iran)? We have enough wars already, thank you. Enough needless blood has been shed. And by the way, the Iranian people aren't the problem...in fact they were, Pre-Bush anyway, fond of America. It's the leadership in that country that's troubling, not the citizenry. But ignorant talk like this thread is another example of pushing the good-will of the globe away while cultivating exactly what produces terrorism and hate for the US.

The Bush Doctrine is a recipe for endless war...pre-emptive attacks are not a smart strategy, let alone the moral implications for attacking someone who has not attacked you.

I'm just glad we'll have intelligence at least, restored to the White House on Jan. 20th.

Evidence please...statements like that really do need to be backed up with events. But the point was a pre-emptive war was addopted under George W Bush. A strategy that publicly stated we will attack and invade those nations who MIGHT be a threat in the future. That, sir, was a new and terrible direction for this country. No other president had gone that far...none.

We have called for airstrikes before, yes...and in some cases targeted groups we believed DID attack us or our interests. These people at times were within the borders of countries whose goverments may have not been complicit in these attacks, but that is hardly the same thing as invading a country who did not attack us, did not threaten us...and then carried on that war for 6+ years to our present day.

Get the difference? :)

He didn't say America decides what nations have the right to exist. . . .in case you haven't noticed, America isn't trying to wipe out whole countries and replace them with new ones. He said "We as a community," meaning the entire world and the United Nations.

Evidence? Look up Cuba - Bay of Pigs. Look up Vietnam war. Look up Grenada. Look up Panama. Look up Bosnia. Look up Somalia. Look up Iraq - both Bush, sr. and Clinton authorized attacks there. This really is common knowldege. If you're going to make claims that George moron Bush, Jr. is the only president to use preemptive wars, you really should know your history.sonicare

LOL I do know a bit of it...and you still, apparently, fail to see the chasm of difference between Grenada and Iraq. I'm gonna give you a few minutes, re-read...think about it for just a moment.

Every single incident you described has inherent, critical disparities between themselves and every other incident. Please tell me you comprehend the difference between a set policy THE BUSH DOCTRINE, and isolated forays into countires ( Somalia/Bosnia were UN conducted peace-keeping missions). The examples you mentioned aren't some general category that mean the same to each other...

Vietnam was also another mess that comes the closest to the Iraq comparison but still falls woefully short of a doctrine of pre-emptive war. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was one precursor to the conflict, as was alliances with the South (and France). Please to save me and the readers from walls of text from me correcting your misconceptions, read some history and save me some time. :)

Ah religion, the reason for so much good in the world, oh wait.... :evil:

No wonder Judgement day is near, the stupidity of man is infinite.

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="gobo212"] And yet US politicians (both democrats and republicans) operate under the idea that the US is above the UN and international law.gobo212

He didn't say America decides what nations have the right to exist. . . .in case you haven't noticed, America isn't trying to wipe out whole countries and replace them with new ones. He said "We as a community," meaning the entire world and the United Nations.

[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="sonicare"] As opposed to the rest of the world which is always so noble and follows the international law. Yes, the great UN and international community which has no problem allowing genocide to go unchecked in Darfur and other regions of the world. Yes, I certainly respect that great international community. They're real heroes.sonicare

He didn't say that...again, it seems you are putting words into people's posts they didn't put there themselves. He did not comment on the interests or behaviors of other nations. He commented on the US disregard for the international community, which under our current administration has flourished. It's a specific comment about a specific country.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]Evidence? Look up Cuba - Bay of Pigs. Look up Vietnam war. Look up Grenada. Look up Panama. Look up Bosnia. Look up Somalia. Look up Iraq - both Bush, sr. and Clinton authorized attacks there. This really is common knowldege. If you're going to make claims that George moron Bush, Jr. is the only president to use preemptive wars, you really should know your history.Leostatic

LOL I do know a bit of it...and you still, apparently, fail to see the chasm of difference between Grenada and Iraq. I'm gonna give you a few minutes, re-read...think about it for just a moment.

Every single incident you described has inherent, critical disparities between themselves and every other incident. Please tell me you comprehend the difference between a set policy THE BUSH DOCTRINE, and isolated forays into countires ( Somalia/Bosnia were UN conducted peace-keeping missions). The examples you mentioned aren't some general category that mean the same to each other...

Vietnam was also another mess that comes the closest to the Iraq comparison but still falls woefully short of a doctrine of pre-emptive war. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was one precursor to the conflict, as was alliances with the South (and France). Please to save me and the readers from walls of text from me correcting your misconceptions, read some history and save me some time. :)

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="gobo212"] And yet US politicians (both democrats and republicans) operate under the idea that the US is above the UN and international law.jointed

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="gobo212"] When did I say the UN was great? I simply said that it's obvious that America doesn't care about the opinion of the international community.Leostatic

He didn't say that...again, it seems you are putting words into people's posts they didn't put there themselves. He did not comment on the interests or behaviors of other nations. He commented on the US disregard for the international community, which under our current administration has flourished. It's a specific comment about a specific country.

[QUOTE="Leostatic"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"] Newsflash - Most if not all nations don't. If you honestly believe that most nations don't act in their own best interests, I don't know what to say.sonicare

He didn't say that...again, it seems you are putting words into people's posts they didn't put there themselves. He did not comment on the interests or behaviors of other nations. He commented on the US disregard for the international community, which under our current administration has flourished. It's a specific comment about a specific country.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="sonicare"] As opposed to the rest of the world which is always so noble and follows the international law. Yes, the great UN and international community which has no problem allowing genocide to go unchecked in Darfur and other regions of the world. Yes, I certainly respect that great international community. They're real heroes.sonicare

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Leostatic"]

He didn't say that...again, it seems you are putting words into people's posts they didn't put there themselves. He did not comment on the interests or behaviors of other nations. He commented on the US disregard for the international community, which under our current administration has flourished. It's a specific comment about a specific country.

gobo212

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="jointed"] The UN wasn't created for that purpose, so I fail to your point. There's no correlation.jointed

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="sonicare"] I believe that genocide is not in accordance with international law . . . . . . .sonicare

[QUOTE="gobo212"][QUOTE="sonicare"] But that's like the pot calling the kettle black. AnObscureName