OK, so UAVs have killed people in Pakistan on the war on terror

And I am talking about innocent civilians. However, there is something I thought about. I think I remember reading on these forums about these drone attacks killing civilians along the way. The people who responded said something that sounded like, "Well, they're just casualties." IMO, that's the problem. If it happens in some far off country, we are like, "Well, too bad." But if some country different from our own were to do that stuff in our territory and killing innocent civilians, I think we'd be pretty mad. What do you guys think?

Well...they are casualties. War doesn't exempt civilians. DroidPhysX

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]Well...they are casualties. War doesn't exempt civilians. hydralisk86

Maybe if they didnt hang out with terrorists they wouldnt be killedevilrobot1991

Uhhh what? Hang around with terrorists? hydralisk86

Osama bin Laden was hiding in their country. Fertilizer from their plants goes into making IEDs that are used against enemy troops. That doesn't sound like an innocent country.

The civilian casualties are regrettable, but that's the nature of this kind of warfare.

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]Uhhh what? Hang around with terrorists? airshocker

Osama bin Laden was hiding in their country. Fertilizer from their plants goes into making IEDs that are used against enemy troops. That doesn't sound like an innocent country.

The civilian casualties are regrettable, but that's the nature of this kind of warfare.

[QUOTE="evilrobot1991"]Maybe if they didnt hang out with terrorists they wouldnt be killedhydralisk86

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]Uhhh what? Hang around with terrorists? airshocker

Osama bin Laden was hiding in their country. Fertilizer from their plants goes into making IEDs that are used against enemy troops. That doesn't sound like an innocent country.

The civilian casualties are regrettable, but that's the nature of this kind of warfare.

This whole situation is full of hypocrisy.

[QUOTE="evilrobot1991"]Maybe if they didnt hang out with terrorists they wouldnt be killedhydralisk86

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"][QUOTE="evilrobot1991"]Maybe if they didnt hang out with terrorists they wouldnt be killedatony12

[QUOTE="atony12"][QUOTE="hydralisk86"] Uhhh what? Hang around with terrorists? DigitalExile

**** happens, things change. One day they are the land that produces rainbows and the next day they become the base of terrorists. It was unfortunate for the innocent people that these terrorists chose to use their home.Crunchy_Nuts

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] **** happens, things change. One day they are the land that produces rainbows and the next day they become the base of terrorists. It was unfortunate for the innocent people that these terrorists chose to use their home.DigitalExile

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] **** happens, things change. One day they are the land that produces rainbows and the next day they become the base of terrorists. It was unfortunate for the innocent people that these terrorists chose to use their home.DigitalExile

So are you saying those civilians deserve to die? hydralisk86

I thought it was pretty clear what I was saying. Pakistan deserves the UAV strikes that it's getting. Perhaps it shouldn't harbor terrorists.

And what if he'd somehow made his way to America and hid out there? Would you be saying "Oh America is harbouring terrorists! Let's get 'em!" or would you be all "shock horror, how could this happen under our noses?"

This whole situation is full of hypocrisy.

DigitalExile

He wasn't in America. He was in Pakistan. A state that had terrorist training camps until we forced them to shut it down.

[QUOTE="hydralisk86"]So are you saying those civilians deserve to die? airshocker

I thought it was pretty clear what I was saying. Pakistan deserves the UAV strikes that it's getting. Perhaps it shouldn't harbor terrorists.

With that kind of logic, America deserved the 9/11 attacks since it's been meddling in the middle east which, in the eyes of many, has been a primary cause for a low standard of life for many of the people there.Crunchy_Nuts

You attack the military if you want to get at the United States. Innocents don't deserve that. We don't go out of our way to kill civilians, contrary to popular belief. Terrorists do.

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] **** happens, things change. One day they are the land that produces rainbows and the next day they become the base of terrorists. It was unfortunate for the innocent people that these terrorists chose to use their home.mems_1224

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="DigitalExile"]Yeah but you can't blame people if they are being complacent with their bullies. Americans might have the power to stand up against tyrants but farmers and villagers don't. Again, just like the gangs in America, if you cooperate with them the cops wants you, if you cooperate with the cops the gangs want you. You can't win. You deal with whoever is in power, and unfortunately it's usually the tyrant that lives next door not the cops who police the area when they feel like it.

DigitalExile

That's never good. Any civilian death is unacceptable. I understand they can happen, but that doesnt mean we should accept it. We really need to assess our goals and the cost to achieve them.

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]With that kind of logic, America deserved the 9/11 attacks since it's been meddling in the middle east which, in the eyes of many, has been a primary cause for a low standard of life for many of the people there.airshocker

You attack the military if you want to get at the United States. Innocents don't deserve that. We don't go out of our way to kill civilians, contrary to popular belief. Terrorists do.

That's never good. Any civilian death is unacceptable. I understand they can happen, but that doesnt mean we should accept it. We really need to assess our goals and the cost to achieve them.

sonicare

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

[QUOTE="mems_1224"] well they could always movemems_1224

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

[QUOTE="mems_1224"] well they could always movemems_1224

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]With that kind of logic, America deserved the 9/11 attacks since it's been meddling in the middle east which, in the eyes of many, has been a primary cause for a low standard of life for many of the people there.airshocker

You attack the military if you want to get at the United States. Innocents don't deserve that. We don't go out of our way to kill civilians, contrary to popular belief. Terrorists do.

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

[QUOTE="mems_1224"] well they could always movemems_1224

Then why are so many civilians/children dead? http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/11/us-drone-war-kills-up-to-168-children-in-pakistan-report.html Or are they just casualties of war . . .JasonDarksavior

Well let's see...if they were killed in a military operation against a legitimate military target...then they must be casualties of war. God, that was hard.

[QUOTE="sonicare"]

That's never good. Any civilian death is unacceptable. I understand they can happen, but that doesnt mean we should accept it. We really need to assess our goals and the cost to achieve them.

hydralisk86

Some may say that the US' repeated attacks at the human shield (largely composed of innocent civilians who have no choice) of the terrorists is itself a terrorist act.Crunchy_Nuts

When another Geneva convention-esque body changes what are legitimate military targets, then maybe those people will have a case.

Civilian deaths are always tragic. I wish we could do more to avoid them but unfortunately it's sometimes unavoidable especially when terrorists hide among the locals. The difference between the US and the terrorists is that when we killed innocent people it was an accident while when the terrorists do it it's intentional. Kind of like the difference between accidently killing somebody in a car accident and intentionally shooting somebody because you didn't like them.

[QUOTE="JasonDarksavior"]Then why are so many civilians/children dead? http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/11/us-drone-war-kills-up-to-168-children-in-pakistan-report.html Or are they just casualties of war . . .airshocker

Well let's see...if they were killed in a military operation against a legitimate military target...then they must be casualties of war. God, that was hard.

[QUOTE="mems_1224"][QUOTE="DigitalExile"]Move WHERE?

hydralisk86

So you think it is completely acceptable for these casualties to occur or?JasonDarksavior

If I knew what every single one of those operations were, what their targets were, what intelligence we had at the time, I could give you an answer.

In a perfect world there would be no civilian casualties. Unfortunately, this place isn't perfect in any sense of the word. If it's a high-value target I'd be more inclined to accept some civilian casualties, yes.

[QUOTE="JasonDarksavior"]So you think it is completely acceptable for these casualties to occur or?airshocker

If I knew what every single one of those operations were, what their targets were, what intelligence we had at the time, I could give you an answer.

In a perfect world there would be no civilian casualties. Unfortunately, this place isn't perfect in any sense of the word. If it's a high-value target I'd be more inclined to accept some civilian casualties, yes.

Would you have the same opinion if I accidentally wiped out your family in order to eliminate a target, and passed them off as collateral damage?Crunchy_Nuts

My family doesn't live in Pakistan. I don't see how that would be possible. ;)

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]With that kind of logic, America deserved the 9/11 attacks since it's been meddling in the middle east which, in the eyes of many, has been a primary cause for a low standard of life for many of the people there.JasonDarksavior

You attack the military if you want to get at the United States. Innocents don't deserve that. We don't go out of our way to kill civilians, contrary to popular belief. Terrorists do.

It's an unfortunate part of war.

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]

If I knew what every single one of those operations were, what their targets were, what intelligence we had at the time, I could give you an answer.

In a perfect world there would be no civilian casualties. Unfortunately, this place isn't perfect in any sense of the word. If it's a high-value target I'd be more inclined to accept some civilian casualties, yes.

airshocker

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

If I knew what every single one of those operations were, what their targets were, what intelligence we had at the time, I could give you an answer.

In a perfect world there would be no civilian casualties. Unfortunately, this place isn't perfect in any sense of the word. If it's a high-value target I'd be more inclined to accept some civilian casualties, yes.

mems_1224

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] Would you have the same opinion if I accidentally wiped out your family in order to eliminate a target, and passed them off as collateral damage?Crunchy_Nuts

[QUOTE="JasonDarksavior"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

You attack the military if you want to get at the United States. Innocents don't deserve that. We don't go out of our way to kill civilians, contrary to popular belief. Terrorists do.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="JasonDarksavior"] Then why are so many civilians/children dead? http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/11/us-drone-war-kills-up-to-168-children-in-pakistan-report.html Or are they just casualties of war . . .DigitalExile

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="airshocker"]thats a dumb questionmems_1224