Personal relationship with Jesus

What exactly does that phrase mean to you?

Just to give a context so that I'm not hiding anything, I'm an atheist who has strong questions and skepticism about theology.

It means SEXY TIME ALL NIGHT!solid_mario

I'm inclined to agree..perhaps not to that extent, but a personal relationship would lead to that

It's personal. majadamus

[QUOTE="majadamus"]It's personal. solid_mario

Somewhat....I guess.

[QUOTE="solid_mario"]It means SEXY TIME ALL NIGHT!HybridPhoenix

I'm inclined to agree..perhaps not to that extent, but a personal relationship would lead to that

I dont think jesus has sexual apparatus, sorry solid_mario :(

To have a personal relationship with Jesus means to have a desire to not only learn about Christ but to speak to him regularly. To not only speak to him in prayer but to have him Lord and Master over your life. Jesus said the sheep know their master. A Christian is to know Christ.

If you are married and do not speak to your spouse regularly and communicate with him or her then the relationship will fail. This is the same thing with a person's relationship with Christ.

I have a bad feeling that this thread is not going to end well.

I don't have a "personal relationship" with Jesus. I think he was a great man and a great mind and one of the greatest moralists/minds in human history. That said, the stories about him have passed through so many hands and through so much political purpose, that at this point it's often hard to determine exactly how much of what's in the Gospel that we have today actually came from Jesus' mouth. That said, the very core of his philosophies are probably his own (i'm being optimistic), and they are good and well-intentioned. Though impossible, if the whole world lived by his ideas, the world would be a great place.

That said, I do not believe that Jesus is an aspect of God, nor do I believe him to be the literal son of God. I do believe in God, but I think statement's about Christ's relation to God is either purely metaphorical or purely hyperbole. I do not believe that Christ came back from the dead and floated into the clouds. I do believe that it is, like much of the Bible, metaphor. I won't go into detail as to what I believe those metaphors to be, but certainly, each of us is free to have our own interpretation of them.

Frankly, my personal relationship with God is a lot more interesting than my personal relationship to Jesus, which frankly is only slight more than my personal relationship with other great moralists, like Kant or Mill. As far as God goes, it truly is "personal": I do not believe in any church whatsoever. I find the whole idea and the whole reverence of the church to be insupportable. That said, if you believe in the Church, that's your right...I just can't make myself believe in any Church, nor do I want to. Religion becomes a lot less "personal" when it is "organized." I will do higher powers proud as best I can, not how others tell me to.

REACH OUT AND TOUCH FAITH! Personal Jesus ftw.DrSponge

I like that song.

Schizophrenia.foxhound_fox

I have not literally heard the voice of God but that does not mean God has not spoken to me... which he does quite often.

I have not literally heard the voice of God but that does not mean God has not spoken to me... which he does quite often. mindstorm

YOU WANT TO TALK TO GOD?

LET'S GO SEE HIM TOGETHER!

I have a bad feeling that this thread is not going to end well.

I don't have a "personal relationship" with Jesus. I think he was a great man and a great mind and one of the greatest moralists/minds in human history. That said, the stories about him have passed through so many hands and through so much political purpose, that at this point it's often hard to determine exactly how much of what's in the Gospel that we have today actually came from Jesus' mouth. That said, the very core of his philosophies are probably his own (i'm being optimistic), and they are good and well-intentioned. Though impossible, if the whole world lived by his ideas, the world would be a great place.

That said, I do not believe that Jesus is an aspect of God, nor do I believe him to be the literal son of God. I do believe in God, but I think statement's about Christ's relation to God is either purely metaphorical or purely hyperbole. I do not believe that Christ came back from the dead and floated into the clouds. I do believe that it is, like much of the Bible, metaphor. I won't go into detail as to what I believe those metaphors to be, but certainly, each of us is free to have our own interpretation of them.

Frankly, my personal relationship with God is a lot more interesting than my personal relationship to Jesus, which frankly is only slight more than my personal relationship with other great moralists, like Kant or Mill. As far as God goes, it truly is "personal": I do not believe in any church whatsoever. I find the whole idea and the whole reverence of the church to be insupportable. That said, if you believe in the Church, that's your right...I just can't make myself believe in any Church, nor do I want to. Religion becomes a lot less "personal" when it is "organized." I will do higher powers proud as best I can, not how others tell me to.

Paladin_King

You have to question yourself a lot, huh?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I have not literally heard the voice of God but that does not mean God has not spoken to me... which he does quite often. foxhound_fox

Reminds me of a friend I was talking to who told me about her worst date ever. Apparently it was all going really well until this part of the convo. He was good-looking, they liked similar things, he had a good sense of humor, bladdy bla.

Guy: "Man, I can't believe I've never met you before! Look, we're getting on really great, and I don't tell this to many people, but can I share a secret with you?"

Girl: "Sure."

Guy: "Sometimes, I hear Jesus Christ. He talks to me."

Girl: "Oh. I'm not Christian, but that's cool. I don't judge. I totally understand having a spiritual relationship with Christ, like hearing his words and all that."

Guy: "No, I mean, I literally hear him. Like, when I wake up in the morning, sometimes I can hear his voice. I can hear him talking to me."

Girl: "..... Oh...listen, it's been great, but I just remembered I've got to meet someone. Catch you later!"

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I have not literally heard the voice of God but that does not mean God has not spoken to me... which he does quite often. foxhound_fox

I have met people with illnesses like that actually... rather interesting people I must say. It's not a mental problem.

Each time I've had the Lord speak to me it has come true or inspired me greatly in either my praising towards God or for me to take a specific course of action. This might be God laying on my heart to tell a person something or the wealth of emotion when praising God. Some may say this is natural as opposed to supernaturel. I, however, attribute all of this to God and his working through the Holy Spirit.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I have not literally heard the voice of God but that does not mean God has not spoken to me... which he does quite often. Paladin_King

Reminds me of a friend I was talking to who told me about her worst date ever. Apparently it was all going really well until this part of the convo. He was good-looking, they liked similar things, he had a good sense of humor, bladdy bla.

Guy: "Man, I can't believe I've never met you before! Look, we're getting on really great, and I don't tell this to many people, but can I share a secret with you?"

Girl: "Sure."

Guy: "Sometimes, I hear Jesus Christ. He talks to me."

Girl: "Oh. I'm not Christian, but that's cool. I don't judge. I totally understand having a spiritual relationship with Christ, like hearing his words and all that."

Guy: "No, I mean, I literally hear him. Like, when I wake up in the morning, sometimes I can hear his voice. I can hear him talking to me."

Girl: "..... Oh...listen, it's been great, but I just remembered I've got to meet someone. Catch you later!"

I have no doubt that happens with some people. You may think them (and me for that matter) to be crazy but I don't care. :P ...I'm willing to be considered crazy for God. :D

I have met people with illnesses like that actually... rather interesting people I must say. It's not a mental problem.mindstorm

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I have met people with illnesses like that actually... rather interesting people I must say. It's not a mental problem.foxhound_fox

If these voices are telling a person to do things that are morally wrong and against the teachings of the Bible (like killing someone) then they are not from God but somewhere else.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I have met people with illnesses like that actually... rather interesting people I must say. It's not a mental problem.foxhound_fox

What if those "voices" are just telling you to eat food?

Many instances of people being "spoken to" by their God can be attributed to mental illness.

I have met people with illnesses like that actually... rather interesting people I must say. It's not a mental problem.

Each time I've had the Lord speak to me it has come true or inspired me greatly in either my praising towards God or for me to take a specific course of action. This might be God laying on my heart to tell a person something or the wealth of emotion when praising God. Some may say this is natural as opposed to supernaturel. I, however, attribute all of this to God and his working through the Holy Spirit.

mindstorm

I don't think that's what foxhound meant by God speaking to people. I could try and debunk what you just said, but I'm not a jerk. Freedom of belief rules.

That said, I too have met two people who literally believe to have been "spoken to" by God. Not in your sense, but literally. I'll tell you what, you're right, they weren't crazies and they were interesting people with a lot of cool ideas.

However, for both of them, God spoke to them when they were totally down in the dumps mentally. For example, one was suffering from serious alcoholism and depression and was contemplating suicide and heard God dissuade him from suicide while he sat alone in a chapel. I mean, that makes for a great story, but did God REALLY speak to him...verbally, as he says? I don't know. For both people, God spoke to them at a time when their mind was totally cooked due to chemical imbalances and substance abuse. This seems to be quite common. Maybe God did reach out to them, but I don't believe for a second that he literally spoke to them.

If these voices are telling a person to do things that are morally wrong and against the teachings of the Bible (like killing someone) then they are not from God but somewhere else. mindstorm

It means SEXY TIME ALL NIGHT!solid_mario

Pretty much.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Many instances of people being "spoken to" by their God can be attributed to mental illness.

I have met people with illnesses like that actually... rather interesting people I must say. It's not a mental problem.

Each time I've had the Lord speak to me it has come true or inspired me greatly in either my praising towards God or for me to take a specific course of action. This might be God laying on my heart to tell a person something or the wealth of emotion when praising God. Some may say this is natural as opposed to supernaturel. I, however, attribute all of this to God and his working through the Holy Spirit.

Paladin_King

I don't think that's what foxhound meant by God speaking to people. I could try and debunk what you just said, but I'm not a jerk. Freedom of belief rules.

That said, I too have met two people who literally believe to have been "spoken to" by God. Not in your sense, but literally. I'll tell you what, you're right, they weren't crazies and they were interesting people with a lot of cool ideas.

However, for both of them, God spoke to them when they were totally down in the dumps mentally. For example, one was suffering from serious alcoholism and depression and was contemplating suicide and heard God dissuade him from suicide while he sat alone in a chapel. I mean, that makes for a great story, but did God REALLY speak to him...verbally, as he says? I don't know. For both people, God spoke to them at a time when their mind was totally cooked due to chemical imbalances and substance abuse. This seems to be quite common. Maybe God did reach out to them, but I don't believe for a second that he literally spoke to them.

I'm aware of the difference between being spoken to audibly and spoken to through the heart. I know some who have been spoken to audibly but as for me, it's only been through my heart.

Btw, a person isn't going to hear the voice of God unless they are listening for it such as when a person is down in the dumps or going through a spiritual high.

It's personal, but I feel comfortable enough to share. I imagine Him, lying next to me under the covers. A wreath of thorns is laid gently on the top of His head and His hair flows magestically down His chiseled features, culimating in the cutest little beard that I cannot help but reach out and tug gently. He's clothed in nothing but the same simple loincloth that He died for our sins in.

I reach down and feel the coarse, first century canvas-like cloth, smell the two thousand year old dirt and grime and a surge of pity and reverence washes over me, and I reach out, lean forward and

[QUOTE="HybridPhoenix"]

[QUOTE="solid_mario"]It means SEXY TIME ALL NIGHT!Mr_Kowaski

I'm inclined to agree..perhaps not to that extent, but a personal relationship would lead to that

I dont think jesus has sexual apparatus, sorry solid_mario :(

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]If these voices are telling a person to do things that are morally wrong and against the teachings of the Bible (like killing someone) then they are not from God but somewhere else. foxhound_fox

I completely disagree. I know who is speaking to me because of the Bible. If I did not already know God then I wouldn't know it was from him. The Bible specifically mentions this even.

1 John 4:1-6 states, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood."

[

I'm aware of the difference between being spoken to audibly and spoken to through the heart. I know some who have been spoken to audibly but as for me, it's only been through my heart.

Btw, a person isn't going to hear the voice of God unless they are listening for it such as when a person is down in the dumps or going through a spiritual high.

mindstorm

I know you're aware, I was just making it clear that I, and i think foxhound, were speaking of different things from what you were speaking of.

That said, I do think that foxhound is really relying to heavily on rudimentary psychology here. I think he's making this out to be far more black and white and far less complex than it really is. That said, I think that part of it is that difficulty of defining what sort of "being spoken to" we're talking about.

As far as your second paragraph goes, I know you won't, but there are some serious logical problems in your statement. While you could say that a person down in the dumps is most ready to "listen for" God, he/she is also at their most mentally unstable point as well and is at the point where he/she is most likely to hear things. Also, you're definition of "listening for" is also dangerously close to a self-fulling prophecy. You want something so bad that you make it happen mentally.

I completely disagree. I know who is speaking to me because of the Bible. If I did not already know God then I wouldn't know it was from him. The Bible specifically mentions this even.mindstorm

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][

I'm aware of the difference between being spoken to audibly and spoken to through the heart. I know some who have been spoken to audibly but as for me, it's only been through my heart.

Btw, a person isn't going to hear the voice of God unless they are listening for it such as when a person is down in the dumps or going through a spiritual high.

Paladin_King

I know you're aware, I was just making it clear that I, and i think foxhound, were speaking of different things from what you were speaking of.

That said, I do think that foxhound is really relying to heavily on rudimentary psychology here. I think he's making this out to be far more black and white and far less complex than it really is. That said, I think that part of it is that difficulty of defining what sort of "being spoken to" we're talking about.

As far as your second paragraph goes, I know you won't, but there are some serious logical problems in your statement. While you could say that a person down in the dumps is most ready to "listen for" God, he/she is also at their most mentally unstable point as well and is at the point where he/she is most likely to hear things. Also, you're definition of "listening for" is also dangerously close to a self-fulling prophecy. You want something so bad that you make it happen mentally.

The problem with the self-fulfilling prophecy part is we often hear just the opposite of what we want to hear...

I see why you'd believe what you do as we seem to actually be arguing the same points for the most part. The difference is I believe the voices are supernatural as opposed to natural. The same evidence exists for both like that of the person down in the dumps.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I completely disagree. I know who is speaking to me because of the Bible. If I did not already know God then I wouldn't know it was from him. The Bible specifically mentions this even.foxhound_fox

I agree that some of the voices are indeed caused by mental illness (typically caused by demons but that's another matter entirely :P).

[QUOTE="Paladin_King"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][

I'm aware of the difference between being spoken to audibly and spoken to through the heart. I know some who have been spoken to audibly but as for me, it's only been through my heart.

Btw, a person isn't going to hear the voice of God unless they are listening for it such as when a person is down in the dumps or going through a spiritual high.

mindstorm

I know you're aware, I was just making it clear that I, and i think foxhound, were speaking of different things from what you were speaking of.

That said, I do think that foxhound is really relying to heavily on rudimentary psychology here. I think he's making this out to be far more black and white and far less complex than it really is. That said, I think that part of it is that difficulty of defining what sort of "being spoken to" we're talking about.

As far as your second paragraph goes, I know you won't, but there are some serious logical problems in your statement. While you could say that a person down in the dumps is most ready to "listen for" God, he/she is also at their most mentally unstable point as well and is at the point where he/she is most likely to hear things. Also, you're definition of "listening for" is also dangerously close to a self-fulling prophecy. You want something so bad that you make it happen mentally.

The problem with the self-fulfilling prophecy part is we often hear just the opposite of what we want to hear...

I see why you'd believe what you do as we seem to actually be arguing the same points for the most part. The difference is I believe the voices are supernatural as opposed to natural. The same evidence exists for both like that of the person down in the dumps.

lol, to be fair, I think we can't really even to pretend to talk about evidence here, which is by nature empirical. If we're discussing faith and all ;)

Again though, i can see you're speaking from personal experience. it's tough. You say people don't hear what they want to hear, yet the people who have literally HEARD God that I know...even if they didn't hear what they wanted to hear, they heard what they NEEDED to hear, and the moment they realized it, they knew it was what they needed. The unconscious mind is a lovely thing. On the other hand, if some other force had a hand in revealing or making plain to you things you already knew....

I am Jesus.yabbicoke

No you're not. GTFO. :P

I agree that some of the voices are indeed caused by mental illness (typically caused by demons but that's another matter entirely :P).mindstorm

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Paladin_King"][QUOTE="mindstorm"][

I'm aware of the difference between being spoken to audibly and spoken to through the heart. I know some who have been spoken to audibly but as for me, it's only been through my heart.

Btw, a person isn't going to hear the voice of God unless they are listening for it such as when a person is down in the dumps or going through a spiritual high.

Paladin_King

I know you're aware, I was just making it clear that I, and i think foxhound, were speaking of different things from what you were speaking of.

That said, I do think that foxhound is really relying to heavily on rudimentary psychology here. I think he's making this out to be far more black and white and far less complex than it really is. That said, I think that part of it is that difficulty of defining what sort of "being spoken to" we're talking about.

As far as your second paragraph goes, I know you won't, but there are some serious logical problems in your statement. While you could say that a person down in the dumps is most ready to "listen for" God, he/she is also at their most mentally unstable point as well and is at the point where he/she is most likely to hear things. Also, you're definition of "listening for" is also dangerously close to a self-fulling prophecy. You want something so bad that you make it happen mentally.

The problem with the self-fulfilling prophecy part is we often hear just the opposite of what we want to hear...

I see why you'd believe what you do as we seem to actually be arguing the same points for the most part. The difference is I believe the voices are supernatural as opposed to natural. The same evidence exists for both like that of the person down in the dumps.

lol, to be fair, I think we can't really even to pretend to talk about evidence here, which is by nature empirical. If we're discussing faith and all ;)

Again though, i can see you're speaking from personal experience. it's tough. You say people don't hear what they want to hear, yet the people who have literally HEARD God that I know...even if they didn't hear what they wanted to hear, they heard what they NEEDED to hear, and the moment they realized it, they knew it was what they needed. The unconscious mind is a lovely thing. On the other hand, if some other force had a hand in revealing or making plain to you things you already knew....

God didn't make us to be simple creatures. :P

Even with our many complexities and inability to completely understand our own lives, it is all the more difficult to understand and grasp the mighty nature of an infinite God.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I agree that some of the voices are indeed caused by mental illness (typically caused by demons but that's another matter entirely :P).foxhound_fox

Hence the reason I said caused by demons. Can not an outside force cause the imbalances?

Hence the reason I said caused by demons. Can not an outside force cause the imbalances? mindstorm