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So I haven't seen a question like this yet, and I'm in a philosophy club at my high school, so I have decided to bring some of the topics that we discuss here to OT. A couple weeks ago we discussed greed. Here are some questions for you to ponder on:
1. What do you define as greed?
2. Is there a line between survival instinctsand greed, or are they the same? Why?
3. Can greed be a positive thing?
Discuss. Please try to make your opinions a couple sentences long.
1. What do you define as greed?
2. Is there a line between survival and greed, or are they the same? Why?
3. Can greed be a positive thing?
Discuss. Please try to make your opinions a couple sentences long.
RushMetallica
My opinion.
1. Getting more of your wants at the expense of other's needs.
2. Yes there's a difference. Survival starts with an S and greed starts with a G. Haw! :lol: Oh ok I'll try being serious...:? Survival is more of getting what you need in order to survive, greed is not. See answer no.1.
3. Sure I guess. It can spark ambition.
[QUOTE="RushMetallica"]
1. What do you define as greed?
2. Is there a line between survival and greed, or are they the same? Why?
3. Can greed be a positive thing?
Discuss. Please try to make your opinions a couple sentences long.
My opinion.
1. Getting more of your wants at the expense of other's needs.
2. Yes there's a difference. Survival starts with an S and greed starts with a G. Haw! :lol: Oh ok I'll try being serious...:? Survival is more of getting what you need in order to survive, greed is not. See answer no.1.
3. Sure I guess. It can spark ambition.
But if your getting what you need to survive, then aren't you, in some cases as least, taking from others? Couldn't that be argued as greed. You are surviving at the expense of other's needs. Example: There are two people living on an island, one person finds enough food just to survive, but there is only enough food for that person, and so the other human dies. Was the man's need for survival fueled by greed?[QUOTE="RushMetallica"]
1. What do you define as greed?
2. Is there a line between survival and greed, or are they the same? Why?
3. Can greed be a positive thing?
Discuss. Please try to make your opinions a couple sentences long.
My opinion.
1. Getting more of your wants at the expense of other's needs.
2. Yes there's a difference. Survival starts with an S and greed starts with a G. Haw! :lol: Oh ok I'll try being serious...:? Survival is more of getting what you need in order to survive, greed is not. See answer no.1.
3. Sure I guess. It can spark ambition.
But if your getting what you need to survive, then aren't you, in some cases as least, taking from others? Couldn't that be argued as greed. You are surviving at the expense of other's needs. Example: There are two people living on an island, one person finds enough food just to survive, but there is only enough food for that person, and so the other human dies. Was the man's need for survival fueled by greed? No it wasnt fueled by greed since he didnt want the food he needed it. If there was enough food for two and he kept it all for himself that would be greed.
1. Not sharing or thinking about your own self interests and ignoring others. 2. No, greed tends to be a greed for wants, not needs. 3. No, I'd say it's the root of all evil.Famiking
I agree. If there is one thing which will eventually destroy humanity it's greed among others things like lust and capitalism. Darwin believed in the struggle for life and that evolution forces all of us to be greedy. Richard Dawkins believes that our genes are inherently selfish but I don't really buy into that. I believe there are things such as altruism, self-sacrifice for others and love and compassion for the suffering of others which evolution cannot explain.
I think greed is the unabated "want" for something unnecessary to happiness, sometimes at the expense of others but always to the expense of the self.
I think greed and survival instinct are different; survival instinct is usually bred of something we need whereas greed is something we want.
I think greed can have good consequences but inevitably turns out bad.
1) My definition of greeds is thirsty to gather all of your "wants" even though your "needs" are fulfilled
2) There is a line between survival insticts and greed. As I have mentioned, survival is focused on gaining your "needs" to be able to live another day. Greed is picking up anything extra that you don't need to live. I guess in a situation where a thief steals money because he has no food or shelter, he/she is acting upon survival insticts.
3)Greed can be a positive thing, but 99% of the time it is a negative thing. If you use greed to help others that don't have their "needs" fulfilled, then it can be viewed as a good thing.
Humans are naturally selfish and naturally self serving. We do good deeds to help others only to fulfill our own feelings of satisfaction. Not saying its a bad thing. I'm just saying its natural.SajedeneIndeed. Greed is much like almost all other human states of mind-sadness, anger, happiness, etc. Much like all of these other emotions, greed can be motivation for both good and bad. Sadness can bring either self-destruction or attempts to rectify that which makes you sad; anger can bring the destruction of others or the desire to set right that which wronged you; happiness can bring complacency, a desire to spread it, or a desire to prolong it; and greed can cause you to either get what you want no matter what you must do to get it or to go about getting it by legitimate means. Greed is only bad when you cheat to get what you want.
1) My definition of greeds is thirsty to gather all of your "wants" even though your "needs" are fulfilledMoroes
Greed always turns out bad, maybe not to you but to other people. The biggest problem today is laziness. People want to get good jobs and become wealthy easily or by investing very little effort. And many of those who do invest a lot of effort like study hard for university and work at multiple jobs, stay poor. And that's the real injustice.
My basic needs are pretty much fullfied. I have enough food, clothing, good hygiene, a pretty good computer but I want more. My biggest dream is to live in Canada. My short-term goal for the next 3 or 4 years is to get a 6-core Westmere with the new 64 bit Windows 7.
It's quite natural to want more or better but it's only when you prevent others from achieving the same thing, that's the real injustice. It's only when our collective greed and material desires become institutionized in State and economic institutions, then that's the real evil.
Yes-without greed, there would be no motivation for humans to elevate themselves above the level of animals.thepwninator
Is our motivation to be greater than animals due to greed? I would think our reasonable ability to recognise what is right and wrong among other things would do that without the influence of greed.
[QUOTE="Famiking"]1. Not sharing or thinking about your own self interests and ignoring others. 2. No, greed tends to be a greed for wants, not needs. 3. No, I'd say it's the root of all evil.X4D
I agree. If there is one thing which will eventually destroy humanity it's greed among others things like lust and capitalism. Darwin believed in the struggle for life and that evolution forces all of us to be greedy. Richard Dawkins believes that our genes are inherently selfish but I don't really buy into that. I believe there are things such as altruism, self-sacrifice for others and love and compassion for the suffering of others which evolution cannot explain.
I agree, I don't think it's natural or original sin. I personally think people are encouraged to be greedy.[QUOTE="thepwninator"]Yes-without greed, there would be no motivation for humans to elevate themselves above the level of animals.Theokhoth
Is our motivation to be greater than animals due to greed? I would think our reasonable ability to recognise what is right and wrong among other things would do that without the influence of greed.
You are sitting in front of a computer right now taking in as much information as possible, inciting discussion as much as possible. Why? Because you have a greed for knowledge, for self-affirmation, and for something to pass the time.The quest for knowledge is the greatest quest one can go on, and it is indubitably a quest with origins rooted in greed. It is you who wants the knowledge for yourself. It is not one of the basic needs of your life, but you want it nonetheless. Your desire is therefore a greed for knowledge.
The search for knowledge is an instance of greed, but does that make it bad? I already asserted that the search is the greatest thing one can do. Therefore, since it is an instance of greed, but is not bad, it follows that greed is not inherently bad.
Greed is simply like hunger. It is not inherently bad. It is how you satisfy it that makes it good or bad.
Satisfying yourself is not greed, satisfying yourself at the expense of others is.FamikingSatisfying yourself at the expense of others is bad greed.
Satisfying your own wants that are not absolutely necessary to your survival is still greed, but greed is not inherently bad.
Greed is simply defined as "the desire for that which one does not have or need". If you obtain that which you do not have or need through legitimate means, is the desire for it bad?
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]
[QUOTE="thepwninator"]Yes-without greed, there would be no motivation for humans to elevate themselves above the level of animals.thepwninator
Is our motivation to be greater than animals due to greed? I would think our reasonable ability to recognise what is right and wrong among other things would do that without the influence of greed.
You are sitting in front of a computer right now taking in as much information as possible, inciting discussion as much as possible. Why? Because you have a greed for knowledge, for self-affirmation, and for something to pass the time.The quest for knowledge is the greatest quest one can go on, and it is indubitably a quest with origins rooted in greed. It is you who wants the knowledge for yourself. It is not one of the basic needs of your life, but you want it nonetheless. Your desire is therefore a greed for knowledge.
The search for knowledge is an instance of greed, but does that make it bad? I already asserted that the search is the greatest thing one can do. Therefore, since it is an instance of greed, but is not bad, it follows that greed is not inherently bad.
Greed is simply like hunger. It is not inherently bad. It is how you satisfy it that makes it good or bad.
I don't think that my want for knowledge is the equivalent to my greed for knowledge. It's also arguable whether or not knowledge is necessary, but I'll assume that it's not.
Do I want knowledge for my sake, or for knowledge's sake? I highly doubt the latter, since that makes knowledge inherently boring; there's no real end to the means but the means itself. If it is the former, then to what end do I want to apply my knowledge?
That brings us to the use of knowledge. Knowledge is garnered for future use in a given field, but almost invariably knowledge is given to somebody else through the form of teaching; on-the-job training, cIassroom teaching, teaching your children, and so on. So knowledge is not for my sake inasmuch as it's for the sake of those to whom I'll give that knowledge.
When we give something away, we call that charity, and charity is the opposite of greed. If I keep my knowledge to myself then that is greedily pursuing knowledge purely for my sake, and in turn I harm others by omitting the share of my knowledge, making greed inherently bad in this case. And as I said before, knowledge that is not applied is boring and useless, which would mean greed degrades the very concept of knowledge.
So no, I do not agree that the pursuit of knowledge is one of greed nor do I agree that greed is in itself a good thing; I do agree that greed is natural and can garner good results on occasion, but I also contend that greed ALWAYS ends up becoming a bad thing either for the greedy person or the greedy person and people around him (such as when the greedy person does not share his knowledge).
I also disagree that searching for knowledge is the greatest thing a person can do, but that's another topic.
You are sitting in front of a computer right now taking in as much information as possible, inciting discussion as much as possible. Why? Because you have a greed for knowledge, for self-affirmation, and for something to pass the time.[QUOTE="thepwninator"]
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]
Is our motivation to be greater than animals due to greed? I would think our reasonable ability to recognise what is right and wrong among other things would do that without the influence of greed.
Theokhoth
The quest for knowledge is the greatest quest one can go on, and it is indubitably a quest with origins rooted in greed. It is you who wants the knowledge for yourself. It is not one of the basic needs of your life, but you want it nonetheless. Your desire is therefore a greed for knowledge.
The search for knowledge is an instance of greed, but does that make it bad? I already asserted that the search is the greatest thing one can do. Therefore, since it is an instance of greed, but is not bad, it follows that greed is not inherently bad.
Greed is simply like hunger. It is not inherently bad. It is how you satisfy it that makes it good or bad.
I don't think that my want for knowledge is the equivalent to my greed for knowledge. It's also arguable whether or not knowledge is necessary, but I'll assume that it's not.
Do I want knowledge for my sake, or for knowledge's sake? I highly doubt the latter, since that makes knowledge inherently boring; there's no real end to the means but the means itself. If it is the former, then to what end do I want to apply my knowledge?
That brings us to the use of knowledge. Knowledge is garnered for future use in a given field, but almost invariably knowledge is given to somebody else through the form of teaching; on-the-job training, cIassroom teaching, teaching your children, and so on. So knowledge is not for my sake inasmuch as it's for the sake of those to whom I'll give that knowledge.
When we give something away, we call that charity, and charity is the opposite of greed. If I keep my knowledge to myself then that is greedily pursuing knowledge purely for my sake, and in turn I harm others by omitting the share of my knowledge, making greed inherently bad in this case.
So no, I do not agree that the pursuit of knowledge is one of greed nor do I agree that greed is in itself a good thing; I do agree that greed is natural and can garner good results on occasion, but I also contend that greed ALWAYS ends up becoming a bad thing either for the greedy person or the greedy person and people around him (such as when the greedy person does not share his knowledge).
I also disagree that searching for knowledge is the greatest thing a person can do, but that's another topic.
However, knowledge isn't something you can give away, as giving away implies that you will no longer have it after sharing it. Sharing your knowledge is not the opposite of greed, because you are not actually getting rid of something you have and actually want to have to give to someone else. It is, however, the opposite of miserliness, which I will agree is a bad thing.Greed lies in the pursuit, not after the time at which that which is pursued is obtained.
And I never said that greed itself is an inherently good thing. I am arguing against all of the assertions that it is inherently bad.
As I said, it is humanity's greatest merit and its greatest flaw-it can foster mankind's greatest advances and its worst atrocities.
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]
[QUOTE="thepwninator"] You are sitting in front of a computer right now taking in as much information as possible, inciting discussion as much as possible. Why? Because you have a greed for knowledge, for self-affirmation, and for something to pass the time.
The quest for knowledge is the greatest quest one can go on, and it is indubitably a quest with origins rooted in greed. It is you who wants the knowledge for yourself. It is not one of the basic needs of your life, but you want it nonetheless. Your desire is therefore a greed for knowledge.
The search for knowledge is an instance of greed, but does that make it bad? I already asserted that the search is the greatest thing one can do. Therefore, since it is an instance of greed, but is not bad, it follows that greed is not inherently bad.
Greed is simply like hunger. It is not inherently bad. It is how you satisfy it that makes it good or bad.
thepwninator
I don't think that my want for knowledge is the equivalent to my greed for knowledge. It's also arguable whether or not knowledge is necessary, but I'll assume that it's not.
Do I want knowledge for my sake, or for knowledge's sake? I highly doubt the latter, since that makes knowledge inherently boring; there's no real end to the means but the means itself. If it is the former, then to what end do I want to apply my knowledge?
That brings us to the use of knowledge. Knowledge is garnered for future use in a given field, but almost invariably knowledge is given to somebody else through the form of teaching; on-the-job training, cIassroom teaching, teaching your children, and so on. So knowledge is not for my sake inasmuch as it's for the sake of those to whom I'll give that knowledge.
When we give something away, we call that charity, and charity is the opposite of greed. If I keep my knowledge to myself then that is greedily pursuing knowledge purely for my sake, and in turn I harm others by omitting the share of my knowledge, making greed inherently bad in this case.
So no, I do not agree that the pursuit of knowledge is one of greed nor do I agree that greed is in itself a good thing; I do agree that greed is natural and can garner good results on occasion, but I also contend that greed ALWAYS ends up becoming a bad thing either for the greedy person or the greedy person and people around him (such as when the greedy person does not share his knowledge).
I also disagree that searching for knowledge is the greatest thing a person can do, but that's another topic.
However, knowledge isn't something you can give away, as giving away implies that you will no longer have it after sharing it. Sharing your knowledge is not the opposite of greed, because you are not actually getting rid of something you have and actually want to have to give to someone else. It is, however, the opposite of miserliness, which I will agree is a bad thing.Greed lies in the pursuit, not after the time at which that which is pursued is obtained.
And I never said that greed itself is an inherently good thing. I am arguing against all of the assertions that it is inherently bad.
As I said, it is humanity's greatest merit and its greatest flaw-it can foster mankind's greatest advances and its worst atrocities.
If I give one hundred dollars to somebody and then gain one hundred dollars five minutes later, is the fact that I gave a hundred dollars away no longer charity?
If greed has nothing to do with the end and is only a means, then there should be no end; we define greed by what we obtain, not just how we obtain and why we want to obtain it. After all, there needs to be an "it" before we can want it, see?
I think mankind's greatest developments can be achieved independently from greed, but many of our worst atrocities are inherently linked with greed.
Ever read Ayn Rand?
However, knowledge isn't something you can give away, as giving away implies that you will no longer have it after sharing it. Sharing your knowledge is not the opposite of greed, because you are not actually getting rid of something you have and actually want to have to give to someone else. It is, however, the opposite of miserliness, which I will agree is a bad thing.[QUOTE="thepwninator"]
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]
I don't think that my want for knowledge is the equivalent to my greed for knowledge. It's also arguable whether or not knowledge is necessary, but I'll assume that it's not.
Do I want knowledge for my sake, or for knowledge's sake? I highly doubt the latter, since that makes knowledge inherently boring; there's no real end to the means but the means itself. If it is the former, then to what end do I want to apply my knowledge?
That brings us to the use of knowledge. Knowledge is garnered for future use in a given field, but almost invariably knowledge is given to somebody else through the form of teaching; on-the-job training, cIassroom teaching, teaching your children, and so on. So knowledge is not for my sake inasmuch as it's for the sake of those to whom I'll give that knowledge.
When we give something away, we call that charity, and charity is the opposite of greed. If I keep my knowledge to myself then that is greedily pursuing knowledge purely for my sake, and in turn I harm others by omitting the share of my knowledge, making greed inherently bad in this case.
So no, I do not agree that the pursuit of knowledge is one of greed nor do I agree that greed is in itself a good thing; I do agree that greed is natural and can garner good results on occasion, but I also contend that greed ALWAYS ends up becoming a bad thing either for the greedy person or the greedy person and people around him (such as when the greedy person does not share his knowledge).
I also disagree that searching for knowledge is the greatest thing a person can do, but that's another topic.
Theokhoth
Greed lies in the pursuit, not after the time at which that which is pursued is obtained.
And I never said that greed itself is an inherently good thing. I am arguing against all of the assertions that it is inherently bad.
As I said, it is humanity's greatest merit and its greatest flaw-it can foster mankind's greatest advances and its worst atrocities.
If I give one hundred dollars to somebody and then gain one hundred dollars five minutes later, is the fact that I gave a hundred dollars away no longer charity?
If greed has nothing to do with the end and is only a means, then there should be no end; we define greed by what we obtain, not just how we obtain and why we want to obtain it. After all, there needs to be an "it" before we can want it, see?
I think mankind's greatest developments can be achieved independently from greed, but many of our worst atrocities are inherently linked with greed.
Ever read Ayn Rand?
Sharing knowledge is still charity, but charity is not the opposite of greed, as I asserted. I said that it was the opposite of miserliness.In response to your second paragraph: greed does not indeed have an end. Even when you have everything, you will still want more, but wanting more isn't bad. It's natural.
Our greatest developments can be achieved independently from greed, but so can our greatest atrocities; the Holocaust wasn't particularly closely linked to greed. Greed, however, is the oil that makes the machines of both our greatest achievements and our most terrible atrocities running.
And, yes, I have read Ayn Rand's works. I am quite fond of them (except Atlas Shrugged, but that was for literary reasons rather than reasons of message).
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]
[QUOTE="thepwninator"] However, knowledge isn't something you can give away, as giving away implies that you will no longer have it after sharing it. Sharing your knowledge is not the opposite of greed, because you are not actually getting rid of something you have and actually want to have to give to someone else. It is, however, the opposite of miserliness, which I will agree is a bad thing.
Greed lies in the pursuit, not after the time at which that which is pursued is obtained.
And I never said that greed itself is an inherently good thing. I am arguing against all of the assertions that it is inherently bad.
As I said, it is humanity's greatest merit and its greatest flaw-it can foster mankind's greatest advances and its worst atrocities.
thepwninator
If I give one hundred dollars to somebody and then gain one hundred dollars five minutes later, is the fact that I gave a hundred dollars away no longer charity?
If greed has nothing to do with the end and is only a means, then there should be no end; we define greed by what we obtain, not just how we obtain and why we want to obtain it. After all, there needs to be an "it" before we can want it, see?
I think mankind's greatest developments can be achieved independently from greed, but many of our worst atrocities are inherently linked with greed.
Ever read Ayn Rand?
Sharing knowledge is still charity, but charity is not the opposite of greed, as I asserted. I said that it was the opposite of miserliness.In response to your second paragraph: greed does not indeed have an end. Even when you have everything, you will still want more, but wanting more isn't bad. It's natural.
Our greatest developments can be achieved independently from greed, but so can our greatest atrocities; the Holocaust wasn't particularly closely linked to greed. Greed, however, is the oil that makes the machines of both our greatest achievements and our most terrible atrocities running.
And, yes, I have read Ayn Rand's works. I am quite fond of them (except Atlas Shrugged, but that was for literary reasons rather than reasons of message).
Then the opposite of greed is contentment?
But for us to want more, there needs to be something for us to want; I can't just say "I want" and that's the end of my sentence; I have want something or I'm just a blathering lunatic.
The Holocaust was executed so that Hitler could instill what he considered to be a perfect world: namely one without Jews. I think, by both your definition and mine, that the Holocaust was tied with greed. Do you think that the advancement of medicine, for example, is tied in with greed?
Sharing knowledge is still charity, but charity is not the opposite of greed, as I asserted. I said that it was the opposite of miserliness.[QUOTE="thepwninator"]
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]
If I give one hundred dollars to somebody and then gain one hundred dollars five minutes later, is the fact that I gave a hundred dollars away no longer charity?
If greed has nothing to do with the end and is only a means, then there should be no end; we define greed by what we obtain, not just how we obtain and why we want to obtain it. After all, there needs to be an "it" before we can want it, see?
I think mankind's greatest developments can be achieved independently from greed, but many of our worst atrocities are inherently linked with greed.
Ever read Ayn Rand?
Theokhoth
In response to your second paragraph: greed does not indeed have an end. Even when you have everything, you will still want more, but wanting more isn't bad. It's natural.
Our greatest developments can be achieved independently from greed, but so can our greatest atrocities; the Holocaust wasn't particularly closely linked to greed. Greed, however, is the oil that makes the machines of both our greatest achievements and our most terrible atrocities running.
And, yes, I have read Ayn Rand's works. I am quite fond of them (except Atlas Shrugged, but that was for literary reasons rather than reasons of message).
Then the opposite of greed is contentment?
But for us to want more, there needs to be something for us to want; I can't just say "I want" and that's the end of my sentence; I have want something or I'm just a blathering lunatic.
The Holocaust was executed so that Hitler could instill what he considered to be a perfect world: namely one without Jews. I think, by both your definition and mine, that the Holocaust was tied with greed. Do you think that the advancement of medicine, for example, is tied in with greed?
The advancement of medicine? In many cases, yes. Most medicines are made for the purpose of generating money. If they weren't, none of the major drug manufacturers (which also do a lot of research, for the record) would be publicly traded organizations, would they?And, yes, greed is the opposite of contentment.
Regarding the Holocaust: the main factor was not greed, but fear. Hitler feared he would have problems with his people if he did not have a group to blame their problems on, so he used the Jews as a scapegoat. There's more to it, but I have to go on an errand. I'll be back shortly, however.
So I haven't seen a question like this yet, and I'm in a philosophy club at my high school, so I have decided to bring some of the topics that we discuss here to OT. A couple weeks ago we discussed greed. Here are some questions for you to ponder on:
1. What do you define as greed?
2. Is there a line between survival instinctsand greed, or are they the same? Why?
3. Can greed be a positive thing?
Discuss. Please try to make your opinions a couple sentences long.
RushMetallica
1. Greed=the belief that self-interest is a virtue, and the practice of that philosophy (individualism).
2. Not necessarily. Conservatives and Libertarians believe that human nature is that of competition. I think that there is ample evidence to prove that in the wild, interdependence is key to the survival.
3. Ayn Rand definitely thinks so. Humans need to balance greed with altruism in order to survive, exchanging favors for favors. Greed hurts other, so it's inherently negative.
So I haven't seen a question like this yet, and I'm in a philosophy club at my high school, so I have decided to bring some of the topics that we discuss here to OT. A couple weeks ago we discussed greed. Here are some questions for you to ponder on:
1. What do you define as greed?
2. Is there a line between survival instinctsand greed, or are they the same? Why?
3. Can greed be a positive thing?
Discuss. Please try to make your opinions a couple sentences long.
1. wishing something for your self. life is greed... 2.i think its linked to instincts. you know how dogs always ask for food, even after theyve had a full meal, eaten the whole garbage, and cleaned out the lower shelves of the refriderator? their just making sure they have enough, in case there isnt enough food later on. athough humans have the ability to stockpile more than just food. 3. NO! imagine, a post apocalyptic world... less than 100 people left alive... half of them sycopathic killers... 1 bomb shelter with suplies left... bob: OH NOOO!!! timmy: BOB!! bob: MY LEG!!! AGH!!!! bobette: save him timmy dear, wont you? timmy:... I KNOW!!! ill shoot you both i the head and run like #$%$!!! random zombie: BRAINZZZ!!! shotgun: kasboom! kasboom! kasboom! kasboom! random zombie: FOODZ!!!Please Log In to post.
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