I think an argument could be made for "both", in fact. Strictly speaking, mathematics is a completely artificial construct with symbols and operations defined by humans, and which does not exist external to humans. This is what makes mathematical facts 100% provably true, as we understand everything about the way in which the framework has been defined, and as such, the results of operations are correct effectively because we say they are. However, it was designed such that it would model and thus be applicable to the real world, and thus many facts within mathematics are genuinely discovered, such as the value of pi.
can someone actually explain how math could be discovered? i don't see how can discover a concept.dkdk999
it started with the egyptians, they created what is known as the hieroglypic numberals ( number one looked a small staright line, two were two lines, ten looked like a U upside down and on...) then they came up with the hieratic numerals ), they also dealt with fractions, they used a symbol know as ro (sort of like an open mouth), then they created the hieractic numerals and on.
can someone actually explain how math could be discovered? i don't see how can discover a concept.dkdk999
The universe started with certain constants (concepts). These concepts are discovered and studied by math, utilizing symbols and methods created by humans.
[QUOTE="dkdk999"]can someone actually explain how math could be discovered? i don't see how can discover a concept._en1gma_
The universe started with certain constants (concepts). These concepts are discovered and studied by math, utilizing symbols and methods created by humans.
Those constants don't really fall within the purview of math itself, though, in that they themselves do not form any part of what makes math math.
(Or are you talking about pi and such? I'm not sure if that's what you mean or if you mean stuff like the universal gravitational constant.)
[QUOTE="_en1gma_"][QUOTE="dkdk999"]can someone actually explain how math could be discovered? i don't see how can discover a concept.GabuEx
The universe started with certain constants (concepts). These concepts are discovered and studied by math, utilizing symbols and methods created by humans.
Those constants don't really fall within the purview of math itself, though, in that they themselves do not form any part of what makes math math.
(Or are you talking about pi and such? I'm not sure if that's what you mean or if you mean stuff like the universal gravitational constant.)
I'm talking about pi and whatnot....and as such the nature of the universe.
Maths is the only universal truth, it could not have been invented as the universe could not exist without it.
Flanker15
Well, technically speaking math is only our way of capturing sets of essential aspects of the universe such that we can derive order from apparent chaos and find meaningful results that can then be applied back to the universe itself. The extent to which mathematics is applicable to the universe is only as good as the extent to which we correctly model the universe in mathematical terms. Garbage in, garbage out.
[QUOTE="_en1gma_"] I'm talking about pi and whatnot....and as such the nature of the universe. The Fibonacci numbers are a better example if you want math represented in the universe.
I'm talking about pi and whatnot....and as such the nature of the universe._en1gma_
Although, one might ask: does a truly perfect circle actually exist in the universe? Or is such a thing an abstract simplifying concept invented by humans?
can someone actually explain how math could be discovered? i don't see how can discover a concept.dkdk999
I agree; isn't it a bit presumptuous to apply the terms for the tools man has crafted to deal with theoretical phenomena into the realm of the not yet conceived?
[QUOTE="_en1gma_"]I'm talking about pi and whatnot....and as such the nature of the universe.GabuEx
Although, one might ask: does a truly perfect circle actually exist in the universe? Or is such a thing an abstract simplifying concept invented by humans?
I think the latter is true regardless of whether or not one can be created. That being said, I highly doubt a perfect circle can actually be exist in the form of matter.
I think it was discovered. I pretty much feel the same way Guybrush_3 does about it. [QUOTE="Bedizen"]
Don't care
Mr_Leonis
i dont care .
rook2rook
For the record, post like these^ should not exist in ANY thread. :|how you will never find an aswer for this its like saying i belive in god but i dont have the proof, i believ in god by the way.
[QUOTE="_en1gma_"]I'm talking about pi and whatnot....and as such the nature of the universe.coolbeans90
Although, one might ask: does a truly perfect circle actually exist in the universe? Or is such a thing an abstract simplifying concept invented by humans?
I think the latter is true regardless of whether or not one can be created. That being said, I highly doubt a perfect circle can actually be exist in the form of matter.
I suppose one could make the argument, in thinking about it, that regardless of whether or not a perfect circle actually exists, that the laws of nature would still say the same thing about the ratio between its circumference and diameter.
how you will never find an aswer for this its like saying i belive in god but i dont have the proof, i believ in god by the way.
rook2rook
How does this have anything to do with belief in something factual that we cannot know?
The question of whether math is discovered or invented is a question in three parts: first, about the precise nature of what math is; second, about the precise definitions of "invented" and "discovered"; and third, about to what extent what math is fits those two definitions.
Of course, this can still lead you not to care, but if so, why post in a thread about it? Obviously you cared enough to post that you don't care. :P
Well, numbers, theorems and methods of finding these theorems and proving them were created, however things such as the mathematical constants arent something that I would consider to be created. They were discovered using the system we created, but without purposly putting these constants in place. They were developed, or discovered, not invented. We invented the methods to discover mathematical constants, which happen to work with the real world very nicely.
how you will never find an aswer for this its like saying i belive in god but i dont have the proof, i believ in god by the way.
GabuEx
How does this have anything to do with belief in something factual that we cannot know?
The question of whether math is discovered or invented is a question in three parts: first, about the precise nature of what math is; second, about the precise definitions of "invented" and "discovered"; and third, about to what extent what math is fits those two definitions.
Of course, this can still lead you not to care, but if so, why post in a thread about it? Obviously you cared enough to post that you don't care. :P
math is detriment by man ,man will go on on how they can say this is that but proof is in the fact that it is not produced till man says it is. manspawn there own mathematics.
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