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didn't know the US constitution was alive...how does it move around? XD4NTESINF3RNOXI didn't know trees were alive. How do they move around?
[QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"]didn't know the US constitution was alive...how does it move around? Fun_MallYakI didn't know trees were alive. How do they move around? Uh....trees are alive dude.
[QUOTE="Fun_MallYak"][QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"]didn't know the US constitution was alive...how does it move around? LJS9502_basicI didn't know trees were alive. How do they move around? Uh....trees are alive dude. Unless theyre dead
[QUOTE="Fun_MallYak"][QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"]didn't know the US constitution was alive...how does it move around? LJS9502_basicI didn't know trees were alive. How do they move around? Uh....trees are alive dude.
yes, because assuming a bunch of pre-Industrial farmers had enough insight to draft a document that is still relevant after 250 years is foolish at best.Hewkii
Ah, yes. The great farmers of this country providing us with wheat, apples, and a Constitution since 1776! lol sorry i had to
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Fun_MallYak"]I didn't know trees were alive. How do they move around?Free_MarxetUh....trees are alive dude. Unless theyre dead Same can be said of people. Your point?
[QUOTE="Free_Marxet"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Uh....trees are alive dude.LJS9502_basicUnless theyre dead Same can be said of people. Your point? The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around.
Same can be said of people. Your point? The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around. Well technically if they grow....they move.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Free_Marxet"] Unless theyre deadpis3rch
Same can be said of people. Your point? The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around.Trust me, nobody was owned by that.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Free_Marxet"] Unless theyre deadpis3rch
Same can be said of people. Your point? The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around.When are people going to finally stop saying "owned?"[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Free_Marxet"] Unless theyre deadpis3rch
I didn't know trees were alive. How do they move around?[QUOTE="Fun_MallYak"][QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"]didn't know the US constitution was alive...how does it move around? Lilyanne46
Trees are living things, just like plants. :|
Whooooosh!I didn't know trees were alive. How do they move around?[QUOTE="Fun_MallYak"][QUOTE="XD4NTESINF3RNOX"]didn't know the US constitution was alive...how does it move around? Lilyanne46
Trees are living things, just like plants. :|
Trees ARE plants.[QUOTE="pis3rch"]The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around. Well technically if they grow....they move. I wouldn't say so, the tree itself does not change location.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Same can be said of people. Your point?LJS9502_basic
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pis3rch"] The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around.Well technically if they grow....they move. I wouldn't say so, the tree itself does not change location. Apparently boulders move constantly too, because of erosionMrPraline
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="pis3rch"] The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around.Well technically if they grow....they move. I wouldn't say so, the tree itself does not change location. Changing location doesn't mean they don't move. In fact they do. The branches bend and twist toward the sun you know. Getting height is movement as well. I'm moving my hands to type but I'm not changing location. Does that mean I'm not moving?MrPraline
I wouldn't say so, the tree itself does not change location. Apparently boulders move constantly too, because of erosion Deposition via erosion is the best kind of deposition.[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Well technically if they grow....they move.Fun_MallYak
[QUOTE="Fun_MallYak"]Apparently boulders move constantly too, because of erosion Deposition via erosion is the best kind of deposition. Oh sm128, you put the eros into erosion[QUOTE="MrPraline"] I wouldn't say so, the tree itself does not change location. super_mario_128
Apparently boulders move constantly too, because of erosion[QUOTE="Fun_MallYak"]
[QUOTE="MrPraline"] I wouldn't say so, the tree itself does not change location. Lilyanne46
Boulders are not living things. :| Erosion moves them, not the boulder itself.
Which implies that boulders move constantly, yes. I never stated what the cause of their movement was. And also DEAR GOD THIS THREAD IS AWFUL.I think people are missing the point here. By living and breathing, the TC refers to the ability of the Constitution to change. In which case, it is indeed living and breathing because over the years amendments have added new articles to it.goth_baconI already alluded to that.......but obviously tree movement is more pressing.:P
Oh sm128, you put the eros into erosionFun_MallYakI put the Eros into a lot of things. ...That sounded a lot better in my head.
[QUOTE="pis3rch"]The first dude implied that the constitution wasn't alive because it doesn't move around. The second dude owned him by saying that trees are alive yet they don't move around. Well technically if they grow....they move.The key factor here is the "around". Phrasal verb: "move around". Refers to movement from one spot to another, not just any sort of movement.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Same can be said of people. Your point?LJS9502_basic
Lol, op, way to explain :roll: (I think it's good to raise literacy on this issue, though) This is a big debate among legal scholars and judges today.
Originalists believe that the Constitution should be understood as our founding fathers/the Congress that adopted the amendment in question saw their additions to the Constitution. For example, the right to privacy/right to abortion was (arguably) not something that the adopters of the 14th Amendment considered to be a fundamental liberty protected by the Constitution. Originalists believe that, because of this, there's no such right to privacy or abortion. Originalists' main argument is that to interpret the Constitution as "evolving" in a certain direction basically lets judges read whatever protections or rights they want into the Constitution, so long as they can somewhat justify it. Originalists prefer to have some grounding to avoid arbitrary and baseless decisions.
The Living Constitution is a concept advocated by those who believe the Constitution changes to adapt to new developments within culture and society. They do believe that we can adopt heretofore unrecognized Constitutional rights to do XYZ, regardless of whether the adopters of the 14th Amendment contemplated that particular right. Or, for another example, that"you have the rightto remain silent..." under the Fifth Amendmentintroduced in Miranda v. Arizona comes from a desire for adequate safeguards to constitutional rights andis drawn from the judges' opinions rather than the intent of the authors of the Constitution. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Constitutionfor more, if you're interested.
Currently, originalism is generally associated with conservatives (e.g. Justices Scalia and Thomas), while the Living Constitution is associated with liberals (the Warren Court, Justice Breyer).
Thanks for clearing that up. :)Lol, op, way to explain :roll: (I think it's good to raise literacy on this issue, though) This is a big debate among legal scholars and judges today.
Originalists believe that the Constitution should be understood as our founding fathers/the Congress that adopted the amendment in question saw their additions to the Constitution. For example, the right to privacy/right to abortion was (arguably) not something that the adopters of the 14th Amendment considered to be a fundamental liberty protected by the Constitution. Originalists believe that, because of this, there's no such right to privacy or abortion. Originalists' main argument is that to interpret the Constitution as "evolving" in a certain direction basically lets judges read whatever protections or rights they want into the Constitution, so long as they can somewhat justify it. Originalists prefer to have some grounding to avoid arbitrary and baseless decisions.
The Living Constitution is a concept advocated by those who believe the Constitution changes to adapt to new developments within culture and society. They do believe that we can adopt heretofore unrecognized Constitutional rights to do XYZ, regardless of whether the adopters of the 14th Amendment contemplated that particular right. Or, for another example, that"you have the rightto remain silent..." under the Fifth Amendmentintroduced in Miranda v. Arizona comes from a desire for adequate safeguards to constitutional rights andis drawn from the judges' opinions rather than the intent of the authors of the Constitution. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Constitutionfor more, if you're interested.
Currently, originalism is generally associated with conservatives (e.g. Justices Scalia and Thomas), while the Living Constitution is associated with liberals (the Warren Court, Justice Breyer).
lynxed
In that case I dont think you can characterise any constitution of any country as either. The constitution itself cannot be any of those. Its how a constitution is treated as.
In my opinion constitutions should be treated as Living Constitutions to a great degree.
I think its wrong to assume that the founding fathers of any constitution of any country were so insightful that the constitution they made has no need to be revised and/or corrected.
When people say the constitution is living and breathing they are talking metaphorically not literally. Just to clear that up.LJS9502_basicYou'd think that such a thing wouldn't have to be explained but I guess not. :lol: I beleive it is yes, because it's a much different place than it was back then. So I voted yes, but not because I thought the document itself was alive. :P
[QUOTE="lynxed"]
Lol, op, way to explain :roll: (I think it's good to raise literacy on this issue, though) This is a big debate among legal scholars and judges today.
Originalists believe that the Constitution should be understood as our founding fathers/the Congress that adopted the amendment in question saw their additions to the Constitution. For example, the right to privacy/right to abortion was (arguably) not something that the adopters of the 14th Amendment considered to be a fundamental liberty protected by the Constitution. Originalists believe that, because of this, there's no such right to privacy or abortion. Originalists' main argument is that to interpret the Constitution as "evolving" in a certain direction basically lets judges read whatever protections or rights they want into the Constitution, so long as they can somewhat justify it. Originalists prefer to have some grounding to avoid arbitrary and baseless decisions.
The Living Constitution is a concept advocated by those who believe the Constitution changes to adapt to new developments within culture and society. They do believe that we can adopt heretofore unrecognized Constitutional rights to do XYZ, regardless of whether the adopters of the 14th Amendment contemplated that particular right. Or, for another example, that"you have the rightto remain silent..." under the Fifth Amendmentintroduced in Miranda v. Arizona comes from a desire for adequate safeguards to constitutional rights andis drawn from the judges' opinions rather than the intent of the authors of the Constitution. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Constitutionfor more, if you're interested.
Currently, originalism is generally associated with conservatives (e.g. Justices Scalia and Thomas), while the Living Constitution is associated with liberals (the Warren Court, Justice Breyer).
Thanks for clearing that up. :)In that case I dont think you can characterise any constitution of any country as either. The constitution itself cannot be any of those. Its how a constitution is treated as.
In my opinion constitutions should be treated as Living Constitutions to a great degree.
I think its wrong to assume that the founding fathers of any constitution of any country were so insightful that the constitution they made has no need to be revised and/or corrected.
YW, but I do want to point out that the U.S. Constitution *does* have an amendment process in Article V. IMO, though, it's completely substandard, as it requires 3/4 of the states to ratify any amendment. I think that slows change too forcibly - it's rare you're going to get that many states to move quickly enough on an issue or even get that many to agree at all. This is why the amendment guaranteeing equal rights between the genders was never passed, and the level of protection for people facing gender discrimination is now in a very weird place. Look up the Equal Rights Amendment if you're interested.[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Thanks for clearing that up. :)[QUOTE="lynxed"]
Lol, op, way to explain :roll: (I think it's good to raise literacy on this issue, though) This is a big debate among legal scholars and judges today.
Originalists believe that the Constitution should be understood as our founding fathers/the Congress that adopted the amendment in question saw their additions to the Constitution. For example, the right to privacy/right to abortion was (arguably) not something that the adopters of the 14th Amendment considered to be a fundamental liberty protected by the Constitution. Originalists believe that, because of this, there's no such right to privacy or abortion. Originalists' main argument is that to interpret the Constitution as "evolving" in a certain direction basically lets judges read whatever protections or rights they want into the Constitution, so long as they can somewhat justify it. Originalists prefer to have some grounding to avoid arbitrary and baseless decisions.
The Living Constitution is a concept advocated by those who believe the Constitution changes to adapt to new developments within culture and society. They do believe that we can adopt heretofore unrecognized Constitutional rights to do XYZ, regardless of whether the adopters of the 14th Amendment contemplated that particular right. Or, for another example, that"you have the rightto remain silent..." under the Fifth Amendmentintroduced in Miranda v. Arizona comes from a desire for adequate safeguards to constitutional rights andis drawn from the judges' opinions rather than the intent of the authors of the Constitution. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Constitutionfor more, if you're interested.
Currently, originalism is generally associated with conservatives (e.g. Justices Scalia and Thomas), while the Living Constitution is associated with liberals (the Warren Court, Justice Breyer).
lynxed
In that case I dont think you can characterise any constitution of any country as either. The constitution itself cannot be any of those. Its how a constitution is treated as.
In my opinion constitutions should be treated as Living Constitutions to a great degree.
I think its wrong to assume that the founding fathers of any constitution of any country were so insightful that the constitution they made has no need to be revised and/or corrected.
YW, but I do want to point out that the U.S. Constitution *does* have an amendment process in Article V. IMO, though, it's completely substandard, as it requires 3/4 of the states to ratify any amendment. I think that slows change too forcibly - it's rare you're going to get that many states to move quickly enough on an issue or even get that many to agree at all. This is why the amendment guaranteeing equal rights between the genders was never passed, and the level of protection for people facing gender discrimination is now in a very weird place. Look up the Equal Rights Amendment if you're interested.Yeah I guess the specific amendments of a constitution might give it a predisposition as to how easily it can be altered and to what level.Please Log In to post.
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