Proof that God does exist

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elkoldo

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#1  Edited By elkoldo
Member since 2009 • 1832 Posts

Alright , I took an Islamic thought course this semester ,and now that the semester is over , I got a handful of days before the final exam.One of the course's main topics was Saint Anselm's proof regarding the existence of God.I believe most of the Christians are already familiar with this ,nevertheless, I'm gonna explain it in here and leave it for discussion.I hope we draw some meaningful result out of it.And hopefully I can use the result in the final exam !

  1. God , according to definition which is accepted by both believers and non-believers ,is an entity greater than which can't possibly be imagined.
  2. An entity that exists only in mind is one thing ,and an entity which exists both in mind and out of it is another thing.
  3. The entity which exists both in mind and out of it is greater than the entity which exists only in mind.
  4. Therefore, God must exist both in mind and out of mind ,because otherwise (i.e. if God existed only in mind) ,another entity could be imagined existing both in mind and out of it , and therefore this entity would be greater than God (3),which contradicts the definition of God stated in 1.

If you think something's wrong with the proof , please elaborate on your reason.I know there will probably be trolls , but disruptive activity will not be tolerated ,and will be flagged on sight.Which of course I hope won't happen.

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jasean79

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#2 jasean79
Member since 2005 • 2593 Posts

Maybe it's the way it's worded, but 3 and 4 are confusing to me. I had to read it a few times to try and make sense of it.

Is your paper based on the Islamic view of God only? Or are you pulling from Christian doctrine as well?

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elkoldo

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#3 elkoldo
Member since 2009 • 1832 Posts

@jasean79 The paper is strictly Christian view , it's actually Sanit Anselm's very words.Trust me I went to incredible lengths translating it into English so that it would be as clear as possible.Maybe it's "otherwise" that's confusing you ? I'm gonna edit it.

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jasean79

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#4 jasean79
Member since 2005 • 2593 Posts

Ahh I see. You know, you're probably not going to get a lot of positive feedback from this topic. Judging from the threads of recent, it appears that there are a lot of non-believers and science enthusiasts on this forum.

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Master_Live

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#5 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts

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deactivated-598fc45371265

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#6 deactivated-598fc45371265
Member since 2008 • 13247 Posts

@elkoldo said:

If you think something's wrong with the proof , please elaborate on your reason.I know there will probably be trolls , but disruptive activity will not be tolerated ,and will be flagged on sight.Which of course I hope won't happen.

Lol, this is just a glorified homework help thread.

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lostrib

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#7  Edited By lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

@Storm_Marine said:

@elkoldo said:

If you think something's wrong with the proof , please elaborate on your reason.I know there will probably be trolls , but disruptive activity will not be tolerated ,and will be flagged on sight.Which of course I hope won't happen.

Lol, this is just a glorified homework help thread.

Lol

TC use your own ideas for your final

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elkoldo

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#8 elkoldo
Member since 2009 • 1832 Posts

@jasean79 said:

Ahh I see. You know, you're probably not going to get a lot of positive feedback from this topic. Judging from the threads of recent, it appears that there are a lot of non-believers and science enthusiasts on this forum.

I don't need positivity or negativity , I just want to see how they react to the proof.It's notable that this christian proof was stated in an Islamic scholar book.Really notable.

Anyway , I already know that , there's something wrong with the proof.Even Saint Anselms has declared that.

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elkoldo

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#9 elkoldo
Member since 2009 • 1832 Posts

@lostrib said:

@Storm_Marine said:

@elkoldo said:

If you think something's wrong with the proof , please elaborate on your reason.I know there will probably be trolls , but disruptive activity will not be tolerated ,and will be flagged on sight.Which of course I hope won't happen.

Lol, this is just a glorified homework help thread.

Lol

TC use your own ideas for your final

Lol I got mine.

Also Lol at "glorified" but seriously , everyone says what they thinks ,everyone passes the couse.There's no wrong or right.You have absolutely no idea of education system in here :P

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ChefPers0n

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#10 ChefPers0n
Member since 2012 • 44 Posts

@elkoldo said:

Alright , I took an Islamic thought course this semester ,and now that the semester is over , I got a handful of days before the final exam.One the course's main topics was Saint Anselm's proof regarding the existence of God.I believe most of the Christians are already familiar with this ,nevertheless, I'm gonna explain it in here and leave it for discussion.I hope we draw some meaningful result out of it.And hopefully I can use the result in the final exam !

  1. God , according to definition which is accepted by both believers and non-believers ,is an entity greater than which can't possibly be imagined.
  2. An entity that exists only in mind is one thing ,and an entity which exists both in mind and out of it is another thing.
  3. The entity which exists both in mind and out of it is greater than the entity which exists only in mind.
  4. Therefore, God must exist both in mind and out of mind ,because otherwise (i.e. if God existed only in mind) ,another entity could be imagined existing both in mind and out of it , and therefore this entity would be greater than God (3),which contradicts the definition of God stated in 1.

If you think something's wrong with the proof , please elaborate on your reason.I know there will probably be trolls , but disruptive activity will not be tolerated ,and will be flagged on sight.Which of course I hope won't happen.

WHAT
ARE
YOU
EVEN
SAYING
!!!!
????

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ferrari2001

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#11 ferrari2001
Member since 2008 • 17772 Posts

That proof has nothing to do with a particular denomination but rather deals in generals. That proof, in it's content only, says that there exists something that is greater then everything else. And that the greatest thing in the universe is what we call God. It doesn't however prove that this entity created anything, or that this entity does anything even remotely for our benefit. Overall it's an ok proof, but the implications of such a proof says that God could be a supernova or a nebula, or whatever the greatest object in the universe is that exists both in and out of thought. In fact this argument could be used to prove the existence of almost anything by simply substituting words for God, for example the perfect pancake exists. Another major criticism came from Kant. Can you definitively claim that having existence necessarily makes something greater? What is it about existence that makes it automatically better then something that exists only in the mind?

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lostrib

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#12 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

You would need to show evidence of how you came to those conclusions

and in 1 god can't possibly be imagined, then it can't exist as an entity in the mind. Kind of screws everything else