Proofs and evidences of the existence of God

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ultimameteora

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#1 ultimameteora
Member since 2003 • 2573 Posts

One of the proofs and demonstrations of the existence of God is the fact that man did not create himself: nay, his creator and designer is another than himself.

It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being. The maker, the creator, has to possess all perfections in order that he may create.

Can the creation be perfect and the creator imperfect? Can a picture be a masterpiece and the painter imperfect in his art? For it is his art and his creation. Moreover, the picture cannot be like the painter; otherwise, the painting would have created itself. However perfect the picture may be, in comparison with the painter it is in the utmost degree of imperfection.

The contingent world is the source of imperfections: God is the origin of perfections. The imperfections of the contingent world are in themselves a proof of the perfections of God.

For example, when you look at man, you see that he is weak. This very weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of the Eternal Almighty One, because, if there were no power, weakness could not be imagined. Then the weakness of the creature is a proof of the power of God; for if there were no power, there could be no weakness; so from this weakness it becomes evident that there is power in the world. Again, in the contingent world there is poverty; then necessarily wealth exists, since poverty is apparent in the world. In the contingent world there is ignorance; necessarily knowledge exists, because ignorance is found; for if there were no knowledge, neither would there be ignorance. Ignorance is the nonexistence of knowledge, and if there were no existence, nonexistence could not be realized.

It is certain that the whole contingent world is subjected to a law and rule which it can never disobey; even man is forced to submit to death, to sleep and to other conditions-that is to say, man in certain particulars is governed, and necessarily this state of being governed implies the existence of a governor. Because a characteristic of contingent beings is dependency, and this dependency is an essential necessity, therefore, there must be an independent being whose independence is essential.

In the same way it is understood from the man who is sick that there must be one who is in health; for if there were no health, his sickness could not be proved.

Therefore, it becomes evident that there is an Eternal Almighty One, Who is the possessor of all perfections, because unless He possessed all perfections He would be like His creation.

Throughout the world of existence it is the same; the smallest created thing proves that there is a creator. For instance, this piece of bread proves that it has a maker.

Praise be to God! the least change produced in the form of the smallest thing proves the existence of a creator: then can this great universe, which is endless, be self-created and come into existence from the action of matter and the elements? How self-evidently wrong is such a supposition!

These obvious arguments are adduced for weak souls; but if the inner perception be open, a hundred thousand clear proofs become visible. Thus, when man feels the indwelling spirit he is in no need of arguments for its existence; but for those who are deprived of the bounty of the spirit, it is necessary to establish external arguments.

Abdul Baha - Some Answered Questions: Part 1, Chapter 2.

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KC_Hokie

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#2 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
Those kinds of explanations are why people become atheists.
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Oleg_Huzwog

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#3 Oleg_Huzwog
Member since 2007 • 21885 Posts

I checked your proof, and it appears you got some of your variables mixed up. This proves the existence of your dog, not god.

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parkurtommo

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#4 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts

I see that I'm the same psn trophy level as you

Oh and

I don't think that's proof or evidence at all.

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Kcube

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#5 Kcube
Member since 2003 • 25398 Posts
Jesus christ had it all figured out..Be good to each other. God though? maybe his son could teach him a thing or two.
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cybrcatter

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#6 cybrcatter
Member since 2003 • 16210 Posts
Well I'm convinced.
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hoola

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#7 hoola
Member since 2004 • 6422 Posts

If I create my children does that make me their god?

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jimmyjammer69

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#8 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
*prooves. One proof, two prooves.
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Tylendal

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#9 Tylendal
Member since 2006 • 14681 Posts
A creation cannot be better than it's creator. Man is imperfect. Therefore, man's creator is perfect. Okay... so where do you prove that man is a creation?
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deactivated-5b19214ec908b

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#10 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
Member since 2007 • 25072 Posts

I think OP just disproved god because that all seemed like nonsense to me.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#11 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
Well I'm convinced. cybrcatter
He used the word "nay" in the first line; it's incontrovertible!
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ujjval16

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#12 ujjval16
Member since 2008 • 1669 Posts
If god doesn't exist who do I pray to every night? Me: 1 Atheists: 0
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parkurtommo

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#13 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts
If god doesn't exist who do I pray to every night? Me: 1 Atheists: 0 ujjval16
I know right, and when I talk to god, I'm obviously not talking to myself.
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Ace6301

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#14 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
If man's a powerless creature that can't create other beings then what are babies? What about test tube babies? We aren't even restricted to creating offspring for other animals using lab techniques. So I guess by this logic we're Gods. Makes sense really. Over all the logic here doesn't work out. Claiming God exists because we're imperfect. Seems to me this actually disproves God existence more than anything, and I'm not an atheist.
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Kcube

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#15 Kcube
Member since 2003 • 25398 Posts
If god doesn't exist who do I pray to every night? Me: 1 Atheists: 0 ujjval16
I pray to fairies in the green fields under cotton candy skies Me 1 athiests 0
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ujjval16

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#16 ujjval16
Member since 2008 • 1669 Posts
[QUOTE="ujjval16"]If god doesn't exist who do I pray to every night? Me: 1 Atheists: 0 parkurtommo
I know right, and when I talk to god, I'm obviously not talking to myself.

Obviously :P
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cybrcatter

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#17 cybrcatter
Member since 2003 • 16210 Posts

[QUOTE="cybrcatter"]Well I'm convinced. xaos
He used the word "nay" in the first line; it's incontrovertible!

Not to mention the phrase it becomes evident, used only in the most rigorous of proofs.

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Necrifer

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#18 Necrifer
Member since 2010 • 10629 Posts

Proofs? How boring.

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parkurtommo

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#19 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts

Well

I guess it's appropriate to say "inb4 the lock"

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#20 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="cybrcatter"]Well I'm convinced. cybrcatter

He used the word "nay" in the first line; it's incontrovertible!

Not to mention the phrase it becomes evident, used only in the most rigorous of proofs.

I do appreciate him adducing the copypasta for us weak souls, also.
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Kcube

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#21 Kcube
Member since 2003 • 25398 Posts
You wouldn't have internet porn if God didn't exist. Food for thought.
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rastotm

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#22 rastotm
Member since 2011 • 1380 Posts

OMG SPREAD THE MESSAGE

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Ace6301

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#23 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts

OMG SPREAD THE MESSAGE

rastotm
If I start seeing this on facebook walls I'm going to have to abuse the unfriend button.
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cybrcatter

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#24 cybrcatter
Member since 2003 • 16210 Posts

You wouldn't have internet porn if God didn't exist. Food for thought.Kcube
Game over, atheists.

Your ontological war is lost.

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cprmauldin

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#25 cprmauldin
Member since 2009 • 1567 Posts

Has anyone here seen The Invention of Lying? A fantastic religious satire that really puts religion into perspective.

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comp_atkins

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#26 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38938 Posts
homo ergaster?
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Nude_Dude

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#27 Nude_Dude
Member since 2007 • 5530 Posts
I know have faith. Bahai faith. Heh.
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parkurtommo

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#28 parkurtommo
Member since 2009 • 28295 Posts
[QUOTE="cybrcatter"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] He used the word "nay" in the first line; it's incontrovertible!xaos

Not to mention the phrase it becomes evident, used only in the most rigorous of proofs.

I do appreciate him adducing the copypasta for us weak souls, also.

LOL This thread is AWESOME
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alexside1

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#29 alexside1
Member since 2006 • 4412 Posts

xaos

I do appreciate him adducing the copypasta for us weak souls, also.

I knew it, I knew was something fishy going on with his post and you just prove that.

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ultimameteora

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#30 ultimameteora
Member since 2003 • 2573 Posts

"Has anyone here seen The Invention of Lying? A fantastic religious satire that really puts religion into perspective."

Good movie

[QUOTE="xaos"]

alexside1

I do appreciate him adducing the copypasta for us weak souls, also.

"I knew it, I knew was something fishy going on with his post and you just prove that".

Actually I typed all of that from the book, I didn't know it was on the net, wish I did, it would have saved me some time.

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ultimameteora

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#31 ultimameteora
Member since 2003 • 2573 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"]If man's a powerless creature that can't create other beings then what are babies? What about test tube babies? We aren't even restricted to creating offspring for other animals using lab techniques. So I guess by this logic we're Gods. Makes sense really. Over all the logic here doesn't work out. Claiming God exists because we're imperfect. Seems to me this actually disproves God existence more than anything, and I'm not an atheist.

It's says man is weak, it doesn't say he's unable to create things.
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Tylendal

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#32 Tylendal
Member since 2006 • 14681 Posts
[QUOTE="ultimameteora"][QUOTE="Ace6301"]If man's a powerless creature that can't create other beings then what are babies? What about test tube babies? We aren't even restricted to creating offspring for other animals using lab techniques. So I guess by this logic we're Gods. Makes sense really. Over all the logic here doesn't work out. Claiming God exists because we're imperfect. Seems to me this actually disproves God existence more than anything, and I'm not an atheist.

It's says man is weak, it doesn't say he's unable to create things.

Man is weak, therefore, something is stronger. Something stronger is God. Still don't follow the logic there.
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Ace6301

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#33 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="ultimameteora"][QUOTE="Ace6301"]If man's a powerless creature that can't create other beings then what are babies? What about test tube babies? We aren't even restricted to creating offspring for other animals using lab techniques. So I guess by this logic we're Gods. Makes sense really. Over all the logic here doesn't work out. Claiming God exists because we're imperfect. Seems to me this actually disproves God existence more than anything, and I'm not an atheist.

It's says man is weak, it doesn't say he's unable to create things.

"It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being" That says man is a powerless creature and that a powerless creature cannot create another being.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#34 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ultimameteora"][QUOTE="Ace6301"]If man's a powerless creature that can't create other beings then what are babies? What about test tube babies? We aren't even restricted to creating offspring for other animals using lab techniques. So I guess by this logic we're Gods. Makes sense really. Over all the logic here doesn't work out. Claiming God exists because we're imperfect. Seems to me this actually disproves God existence more than anything, and I'm not an atheist.

It's says man is weak, it doesn't say he's unable to create things.

"It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being" That says man is a powerless creature and that a powerless creature cannot create another being.

So TC has actually proven that his religious assertions are demonstrably false?
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curono

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#35 curono
Member since 2005 • 7722 Posts

A creation cannot be better than it's creator. Man is imperfect. Therefore, man's creator is perfect. Okay... so where do you prove that man is a creation?Tylendal
Pretty much this. You can´t tell that there was "God" doing something. Besides this logic can be used for many things that are not necessarily true. My storyis imperfect. I am better than my creation. Therefore, I am perfect. O rly?

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Ace6301

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#36 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ultimameteora"]It's says man is weak, it doesn't say he's unable to create things.xaos
"It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being" That says man is a powerless creature and that a powerless creature cannot create another being.

So TC has actually proven that his religious assertions are demonstrably false?

Maybe we've been lied to all these years and that babies are not created through sex but God just kind of putting a baby there. We're all Jesus in purgatory.
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ultimameteora

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#37 ultimameteora
Member since 2003 • 2573 Posts
[QUOTE="Ace6301"][QUOTE="ultimameteora"][QUOTE="Ace6301"]If man's a powerless creature that can't create other beings then what are babies? What about test tube babies? We aren't even restricted to creating offspring for other animals using lab techniques. So I guess by this logic we're Gods. Makes sense really. Over all the logic here doesn't work out. Claiming God exists because we're imperfect. Seems to me this actually disproves God existence more than anything, and I'm not an atheist.

It's says man is weak, it doesn't say he's unable to create things.

"It is certain and indisputable that the creator of man is not like man because a powerless creature cannot create another being" That says man is a powerless creature and that a powerless creature cannot create another being.

It's saying God is the creator.
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majoras_wrath

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#38 majoras_wrath
Member since 2005 • 6062 Posts

"Has anyone here seen The Invention of Lying? A fantastic religious satire that really puts religion into perspective."

Good movie[QUOTE="alexside1"]

[QUOTE="xaos"]

ultimameteora

I do appreciate him adducing the copypasta for us weak souls, also.

"I knew it, I knew was something fishy going on with his post and you just prove that".

Actually I typed all of that from the book, I didn't know it was on the net, wish I did, it would have saved me some time.

Aw now I feel bad.
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ultimameteora

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#39 ultimameteora
Member since 2003 • 2573 Posts
The soul comes from god.
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DroidPhysX

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#40 DroidPhysX
Member since 2010 • 17098 Posts

So...where's the proof? :?

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#41 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

So...where's the proof? :?

DroidPhysX
In the pudding, I believe
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Ace6301

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#42 Ace6301
Member since 2005 • 21389 Posts
The soul comes from god.ultimameteora
Now if only there was proof of a soul.
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ZumaJones07

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#43 ZumaJones07
Member since 2005 • 16457 Posts
The soul comes from god.ultimameteora
Where is my soul?
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dracula_16

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#44 dracula_16
Member since 2005 • 16582 Posts

I've got a better one: Tide goes in, tide goes out. YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT!

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curono

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#45 curono
Member since 2005 • 7722 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="cybrcatter"] Not to mention the phrase it becomes evident, used only in the most rigorous of proofs.

parkurtommo

I do appreciate him adducing the copypasta for us weak souls, also.

LOL This thread is AWESOME

Strong souls and solid arguments come from copypasta... copypasta the meal of pros!!

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Tylendal

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#46 Tylendal
Member since 2006 • 14681 Posts
[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

So...where's the proof? :?

xaos
In the pudding, I believe

Should we worship pudding?
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#47 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]

So...where's the proof? :?

Tylendal
In the pudding, I believe

Should we worship pudding?

"Should" has a normative tone that I'm not entirely comfortable with. However, yes, butterscotch pudding specifically.
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THE_DRUGGIE

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#48 THE_DRUGGIE
Member since 2006 • 25110 Posts

[QUOTE="ultimameteora"]The soul comes from god.ZumaJones07
Where is my soul?

In your appendix.

That's why people who sin too much get an appendectomy and they become souless shells.

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CaveJohnson1

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#49 CaveJohnson1
Member since 2011 • 1714 Posts

Those kinds of explanations are why people become atheists. KC_Hokie
win

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Tylendal

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#50 Tylendal
Member since 2006 • 14681 Posts

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="xaos"] In the pudding, I believexaos
Should we worship pudding?

"Should" has a normative tone that I'm not entirely comfortable with. However, yes, butterscotch pudding specifically.

I google image searched Holy Pudding, and this is the first image I found. Clearly our religion is ridiculously hardcore.