"The rise of man child is caused by women empowerment"

A lot of preadult young men are reacting to this new stage of life by embracing the pleasures and the persona of their youth. This is a source of frustration to a lot of women and one of the reasons I wrote the book. If you were going to find him in his most extreme form you could look at the movie Knocked Up. What you hear from a lot of women is guys who are slow to commit, heavily ironic, uncertain about how they should behave or what women want. Theres a funny blog post on The Frisky, a dating website, titled Ask Me Out On A Damn Date. Dont ask me to hang out. Ask me out on a date.

The culture at large is uncertain about what it wants from its men. We give a lot of mixed messages. We say, on the one hand, that fathers are so important. At the same time, we say that fathers are optional. Many women seem to want men that are confident and have a strong sense of themselves. At the same time, they are put off by too much masculine, authoritativeness. I think a lot of men react to these mixed signals by retreating into themselves, becoming passive and reluctant and often waiting for women to make the first move.

Read More.

what is this...

tbo, i'm glad i'm not needed.

women can take care of themselves and it has worked out great for me.

This is the dumbest thing I have read in a very long time. Makhaidos

And I've been following American politics.

This is the dumbest thing I have read in a very long time. Makhaidos

This is the smartest thing I have read in a very long time.

Here's a thought: We stop trying to live up to what society (and by society I mean the media, which seems to be what society is all about), live our lives as best as we can and try to find some happiness within each and every one of us and our own means instead of chasing what they want us to believe is happiness. 

This is the dumbest thing I have read in a very long time. Makhaidos

Here's a thought: We stop trying to live up to what society (and by society I mean the media, which seems to be what society is all about), live our lives as best as we can and try to find some happiness within each and every one of us and our own means instead of chasing what they want us to believe is happiness. 

LordQuorthon

I've been riding that train for a very long time.  Lot's of leg room on it too!

[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"]

Here's a thought: We stop trying to live up to what society (and by society I mean the media, which seems to be what society is all about), live our lives as best as we can and try to find some happiness within each and every one of us and our own means instead of chasing what they want us to believe is happiness. 

Mikey132

I've been riding that train for a very long time.  Lot's of leg room on it too!

[QUOTE="Makhaidos"]This is the dumbest thing I have read in a very long time. metroidfood

I thought this was going to be stupid. However, I actually think she brings up some points that are valid. Men and women are definitely on different life clocks. There is definitely a societal disconnect when it comes to "do women like gentlemanly acts/traditionalism? Or is opening doors/paying for dates now a thing of the past?" That's a legitimate concept. This whole "Neutral gender society" has increased rapidly since the 70's- 80's, and times have changed.

I don't know if I agree with the "20 year old men are children" vibe of the article, but this person isn't completely wrong.

Read the article, pretty interesting.

It's also almost exactly the subject of my wife's master thesis.

The only issue I see with that article is women being the dominate in college.

Of course women are now becoming the dominate ones in college. Men don't need college when they have jobs that require skills; skills women generally lack, or don't do (construction, plumbing, electrician, etc..) - all of which pay more, or at college level jobs.

Men have more opportunity for success; women either get an education, or just stay at home watching Ellen @ 2.

The only issue I see with that article is women being the dominate in college.

Of course women are now becoming the dominate ones in college. Men don't need college when they have jobs that require skills; skills women generally lack, or don't do (construction, plumbing, electrician, etc..) - all of which pay more, or at college level jobs.

Men have more opportunity for success; women either get an education, or just stay at home watching Ellen @ 2.

Fightingfan

Not even close/10

It took me a while to figure women out, but I'll admit that when I was younger I was baffled by women saying they like nice guys then dating guys who abused them. It really made me feel like sh*t.

It took me a while to figure women out, but I'll admit that when I was younger I was baffled by women saying they like nice guys then dating guys who abused them. It really made me feel like sh*t.

MakeMeaSammitch

Words of wisdom from MakeMeaSammitch

Don't agree with everything they say, but I think it's an interesting discussion nonetheless.  One thing I definitely disagree on is that it's specific to males.  This is just anecdotal, but I can point to dozens of examples of woman-children that I know in real life.  I think this is less about gender and more about the fact that we're living in a society that glorifies the consumption of media and consumer goods, so why wouldn't you expect people to spend tons of money on media and overpriced merchandise?  It's only being pushed down our throats 24/7.

I also dislike the equivalence drawn between passivity and "man-childishness."  Just because some men aren't extroverts doesn't mean they sit around all day playing video games, smoking weed, drinking, and doing nothing with their lives.  I interpret this as a problem of changing gender roles.  We've moved beyond the days of chivalry and expectations that men always have to make the first move, and now women are having to deal with some of the uncertainty that goes along with that.  I think more women need to start getting used to the idea that if they like a guy they should ask him out, welcome to the world of equality.  

Honestly, who gives a ****? Are you really going to live your life according to what someone else expects of you? Find out who you want to be, be it (or work towards it, rather), and then seek out someone who wants that.mattbbpl

I don't think it's so much living up to others' expectations as it is living in a society.  We are necessarily influenced by our interactions with other people and base our expectations and behavior in part on dominant norms.  Hell is other people.

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

It took me a while to figure women out, but I'll admit that when I was younger I was baffled by women saying they like nice guys then dating guys who abused them. It really made me feel like sh*t.

metroidfood

Words of wisdom from MakeMeaSammitch

  Thats kind of what the article is talking about, that you posted sayying it was dumb.  Trust me there is a lot of misinformation and bs out their about men and women.  The way I see it there is a clash between idealogy and nature.  

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]Honestly, who gives a ****? Are you really going to live your life according to what someone else expects of you? Find out who you want to be, be it (or work towards it, rather), and then seek out someone who wants that.theone86

I don't think it's so much living up to others' expectations as it is living in a society.  We are necessarily influenced by our interactions with other people and base our expectations and behavior in part on dominant norms.  Hell is other people.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]Honestly, who gives a ****? Are you really going to live your life according to what someone else expects of you? Find out who you want to be, be it (or work towards it, rather), and then seek out someone who wants that.mattbbpl

I don't think it's so much living up to others' expectations as it is living in a society.  We are necessarily influenced by our interactions with other people and base our expectations and behavior in part on dominant norms.  Hell is other people.

I don't mean that in a metaphysical, abstract kind of way either. In very concrete terms you should identify who you want to be, how you fall short, and then identify a way to work towards that actualization. Do you want to be more assertive and vocal? Do you want to be a better listener? Do you want to more confident? Do you want to display more humility? There are positive traits along a sliding spectrum (within reason, of course - too much of a good thing and all that), but where you want to fall on that scale is a personal decision.

Messages about who we should be influece who we choose to be, whether we follow them exactly or not.  One person may read this article and think the writer is dead wrong, the next may think the writer is right, and a third may fall somewhere in-between.  Each one of them reacts to the article, though, and in some small way (or perhaps large way) adjusts their behavior accordingly.  There are necessarily going to be contradictory messages about who we should be floating around in society, it's our job to sort through those messages and choose how we react to them.

The only issue I see with that article is women being the dominate in college.

Of course women are now becoming the dominate ones in college. Men don't need college when they have jobs that require skills; skills women generally lack, or don't do (construction, plumbing, electrician, etc..) - all of which pay more, or at college level jobs.

Men have more opportunity for success; women either get an education, or just stay at home watching Ellen @ 2.

Fightingfan

[QUOTE="Mikey132"]

[QUOTE="LordQuorthon"]

Here's a thought: We stop trying to live up to what society (and by society I mean the media, which seems to be what society is all about), live our lives as best as we can and try to find some happiness within each and every one of us and our own means instead of chasing what they want us to believe is happiness. 

WilliamRLBaker

I've been riding that train for a very long time.  Lot's of leg room on it too!

Well, I gotta say I was not expecting that reply.   That could happen whether you follow society or not.  That would just be plain bad luck.    

I need an education just as much as women do, don't make me laugh.soolkiki

No one needs an education for financial prosperity.

People will learn when they're 30+ years old paying off student loans, and still don't have a stable job.

[QUOTE="soolkiki"] I need an education just as much as women do, don't make me laugh.Fightingfan

This is a misconception about a college degree.  Yes, it is getting increasingly harder to find steady work in the field which you studied for, but college degrees still increase your odds of landing employment with each subsequent degree, with the exception of possibly a doctorate.  

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

It took me a while to figure women out, but I'll admit that when I was younger I was baffled by women saying they like nice guys then dating guys who abused them. It really made me feel like sh*t.

mahlasor

Words of wisdom from MakeMeaSammitch

  Thats kind of what the article is talking about, that you posted sayying it was dumb.  Trust me there is a lot of misinformation and bs out their about men and women.  The way I see it there is a clash between idealogy and nature.  

So now this?  I thought men were misogynists.  Maybe it's the women have an identity issue.

So by empowering women, we've disempowered men, stunting their growth to adulthood? I don't agree. Just because more and more women are out there making a life for themselves doesn't mean men have less opportunity for success. Men can still be men while man-children choose to remain man-children.

The article suggests that it's fear of competition and/or rejection that pushes men to their glass box where they don't need to grow up. I think that's partially why there's such animosity towards feminism these days (on the internet especially). It's because men have always been the primary workforce and the highest educated, and it creates a cognitive dissonance for men who aren't successful or (i.e. the man-child) when feminists say that men have an inherent advantage because of their gender. Rather than thinking that MAYBE there's a shred of truth to that statement, they dismiss it outright because they haven't personally benefited from being male.

I dunno, I'm no sociologist, just a guy who reads a lot of asinine things from man-children on the internet and tries not to get distressed by it.

Don't agree with everything they say, but I think it's an interesting discussion nonetheless.  One thing I definitely disagree on is that it's specific to males.  This is just anecdotal, but I can point to dozens of examples of woman-children that I know in real life.  I think this is less about gender and more about the fact that we're living in a society that glorifies the consumption of media and consumer goods, so why wouldn't you expect people to spend tons of money on media and overpriced merchandise?  It's only being pushed down our throats 24/7.

I also dislike the equivalence drawn between passivity and "man-childishness."  Just because some men aren't extroverts doesn't mean they sit around all day playing video games, smoking weed, drinking, and doing nothing with their lives.  I interpret this as a problem of changing gender roles.  We've moved beyond the days of chivalry and expectations that men always have to make the first move, and now women are having to deal with some of the uncertainty that goes along with that.  I think more women need to start getting used to the idea that if they like a guy they should ask him out, welcome to the world of equality.  

theone86

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Don't agree with everything they say, but I think it's an interesting discussion nonetheless.  One thing I definitely disagree on is that it's specific to males.  This is just anecdotal, but I can point to dozens of examples of woman-children that I know in real life.  I think this is less about gender and more about the fact that we're living in a society that glorifies the consumption of media and consumer goods, so why wouldn't you expect people to spend tons of money on media and overpriced merchandise?  It's only being pushed down our throats 24/7.

I also dislike the equivalence drawn between passivity and "man-childishness."  Just because some men aren't extroverts doesn't mean they sit around all day playing video games, smoking weed, drinking, and doing nothing with their lives.  I interpret this as a problem of changing gender roles.  We've moved beyond the days of chivalry and expectations that men always have to make the first move, and now women are having to deal with some of the uncertainty that goes along with that.  I think more women need to start getting used to the idea that if they like a guy they should ask him out, welcome to the world of equality.  

Capitan_Kid

The only issue I see with that article is women being the dominate in college.

Of course women are now becoming the dominate ones in college. Men don't need college when they have jobs that require skills; skills women generally lack, or don't do (construction, plumbing, electrician, etc..) - all of which pay more, or at college level jobs.

Men have more opportunity for success; women either get an education, or just stay at home watching Ellen @ 2.

Fightingfan

I'm pretty sure women can become construction workers or plumbers if they want to. It's not like they're physcially or mentally incapable of doings those things. It's just that they are not encouraged to pursue those things. Gender roles and all that crap.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Don't agree with everything they say, but I think it's an interesting discussion nonetheless.  One thing I definitely disagree on is that it's specific to males.  This is just anecdotal, but I can point to dozens of examples of woman-children that I know in real life.  I think this is less about gender and more about the fact that we're living in a society that glorifies the consumption of media and consumer goods, so why wouldn't you expect people to spend tons of money on media and overpriced merchandise?  It's only being pushed down our throats 24/7.

I also dislike the equivalence drawn between passivity and "man-childishness."  Just because some men aren't extroverts doesn't mean they sit around all day playing video games, smoking weed, drinking, and doing nothing with their lives.  I interpret this as a problem of changing gender roles.  We've moved beyond the days of chivalry and expectations that men always have to make the first move, and now women are having to deal with some of the uncertainty that goes along with that.  I think more women need to start getting used to the idea that if they like a guy they should ask him out, welcome to the world of equality.  

Capitan_Kid

It happens its how i got all my girlfriends

So by empowering women, we've disempowered men, stunting their growth to adulthood? I don't agree. Just because more and more women are out there making a life for themselves doesn't mean men have less opportunity for success. Men can still be men while man-children choose to remain man-children.Guppy507

So by empowering women, we've disempowered men, stunting their growth to adulthood? I don't agree. Just because more and more women are out there making a life for themselves doesn't mean men have less opportunity for success. Men can still be men while man-children choose to remain man-children.

The article suggests that it's fear of competition and/or rejection that pushes men to their glass box where they don't need to grow up. I think that's partially why there's such animosity towards feminism these days (on the internet especially). It's because men have always been the primary workforce and the highest educated, and it creates a cognitive dissonance for men who aren't successful or (i.e. the man-child) when feminists say that men have an inherent advantage because of their gender. Rather than thinking that MAYBE there's a shred of truth to that statement, they dismiss it outright because they haven't personally benefited from being male.

I dunno, I'm no sociologist, just a guy who reads a lot of asinine things from man-children on the internet and tries not to get distressed by it.

Guppy507

No, it's a whole generation of little girls being empowered while little boys got ignored or cast aside.  Little boys have no power whatsoever.  There is no inherent advantage while you are a child.  Humans are social creatures, so if you raise 1 group to think they are special and raise another group with the idea that they are unneeded you see the fruits of that when they grow up.

This is exactly how children were educated before the 80's and 90's except it was the girls who were being left out.

Seems people are threatened by a strong man because there are so many frankly wimpy men these days. There are alot of children who don't even know who their fathers are with no strong male role models. Often children are raised by a bitter single woman who talks badly about men. The children grow up and have no idea how a family fuctions or even how a relationship works. Then they become adults and just make things up and hope for the best. The men let the women take the dominate role because that is what they saw growing up.

Seems people are threatened by a strong man because there are so many frankly wimpy men these days. There are alot of children who don't even know who their fathers are with no strong male role models. Often children are raised by a bitter single woman who talks badly about men. The children grow up and have no idea how a family fuctions or even how a relationship works. Then they become adults and just make things up and hope for the best. The men let the women take the dominate role because that is what they saw growing up.

 

no-scope-AK47

My theory has been that the guys who are able to be man-children (support from parents) do so because they realize it's probably a better lifestyle than the alternative of working their ass off at McDonalds. It's arisen due to the current economic reality facing young men who often have parents with money.

Hymowitz agreed to discuss her controversial theory, how she did her research and why she is not engaging in male bashing but is actually sympathetic to men who find themselves in a post-feministworld.Article

I shiggy diggy

Seems people are threatened by a strong man because there are so many frankly wimpy men these days. There are alot of children who don't even know who their fathers are with no strong male role models. Often children are raised by a bitter single woman who talks badly about men. The children grow up and have no idea how a family fuctions or even how a relationship works. Then they become adults and just make things up and hope for the best. The men let the women take the dominate role because that is what they saw growing up.

 no-scope-AK47

  In my observations I think there is a lot of truth to that.  

My theory has been that the guys who are able to be man-children (support from parents) do so because they realize it's probably a better lifestyle than the alternative of working their ass off at McDonalds. It's arisen due to the current economic reality facing young men who often have parents with money.

superfluidity

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

Seems people are threatened by a strong man because there are so many frankly wimpy men these days. There are alot of children who don't even know who their fathers are with no strong male role models. Often children are raised by a bitter single woman who talks badly about men. The children grow up and have no idea how a family fuctions or even how a relationship works. Then they become adults and just make things up and hope for the best. The men let the women take the dominate role because that is what they saw growing up.

 

HoolaHoopMan

  That is the dumbest thing I have read in a while.  So if a guy is strong, he is a dumb caveman?  You do realise that Arnold Swartzeneggar was a really strong guy who is also really smart... right?  I guess you have been living under a rock all these years.  

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

Seems people are threatened by a strong man because there are so many frankly wimpy men these days. There are alot of children who don't even know who their fathers are with no strong male role models. Often children are raised by a bitter single woman who talks badly about men. The children grow up and have no idea how a family fuctions or even how a relationship works. Then they become adults and just make things up and hope for the best. The men let the women take the dominate role because that is what they saw growing up.

 

mahlasor

  That is the dumbest thing I have read in a while.  So if a guy is strong, he is a dumb caveman?  You do realise that Arnold Swartzeneggar was a really strong guy who is also really smart... right?  I guess you have been living under a rock all these years.  

[QUOTE="no-scope-AK47"]

Seems people are threatened by a strong man because there are so many frankly wimpy men these days. There are alot of children who don't even know who their fathers are with no strong male role models. Often children are raised by a bitter single woman who talks badly about men. The children grow up and have no idea how a family fuctions or even how a relationship works. Then they become adults and just make things up and hope for the best. The men let the women take the dominate role because that is what they saw growing up.

 

HoolaHoopMan

Damn, that's harsh.

He is dumb and he is one of the OT's resident manchildren, but using the word "animal" is going too far IMO.