Russia finally has the right idea on how to deal with pedophiles

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killblade37

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#1 killblade37
Member since 2006 • 1091 Posts

http://rt.com/news/pedophilia-russia-chemical-castration-059/

Personally i think this is an amazing idea. Teach the scum of the earth a lesson so they could never harm a child ever again.

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Frame_Dragger

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#2 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts
[QUOTE="killblade37"]

http://rt.com/news/pedophilia-russia-chemical-castration-059/

Personally i think this is an amazing idea. Teach the scum of the earth a lesson so they could never harm a child ever again.

This is nothing new, and it requires the complience of the pedophile.
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Fightingfan

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#3 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
So what happens if you're falsely accused?
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ExoticAnimal

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#4 ExoticAnimal
Member since 2010 • 39796 Posts
It's been done before but I like this idea.
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Frame_Dragger

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#5 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts
It's been done before but I like this idea. ExoticAnimal
Again, it's been tried in the USA and Europe... it doesn't work unless the pedophile wants it to... which is unrealiable to say the least. The action of the drug (hormones really) can be counteracted with testosterone, and you'd STILL appear to be on it. I'm sure it's really hard to get Testosterone in some form in Russia... I mean Codeien is OTC, so... yeah. The second-time life setnence thing is an idea, and if it works under the russian legal system... great. The chemical bit however is a failed experiment.
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ExoticAnimal

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#6 ExoticAnimal
Member since 2010 • 39796 Posts
[QUOTE="ExoticAnimal"]It's been done before but I like this idea. Frame_Dragger
Again, it's been tried in the USA and Europe... it doesn't work unless the pedophile wants it to... which is unrealiable to say the least. The action of the drug (hormones really) can be counteracted with testosterone, and you'd STILL appear to be on it. I'm sure it's really hard to get Testosterone in some form in Russia... I mean Codeien is OTC, so... yeah. The second-time life setnence thing is an idea, and if it works under the russian legal system... great. The chemical bit however is a failed experiment.

I should have made my original post more clearer. I was referring to the 2nd time life sentence and bans on all parole and such.
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Frame_Dragger

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#7 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts
[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="ExoticAnimal"]It's been done before but I like this idea. ExoticAnimal
Again, it's been tried in the USA and Europe... it doesn't work unless the pedophile wants it to... which is unrealiable to say the least. The action of the drug (hormones really) can be counteracted with testosterone, and you'd STILL appear to be on it. I'm sure it's really hard to get Testosterone in some form in Russia... I mean Codeien is OTC, so... yeah. The second-time life setnence thing is an idea, and if it works under the russian legal system... great. The chemical bit however is a failed experiment.

I should have made my original post more clearer. I was referring to the 2nd time life sentence and bans on all parole and such.

Yeah, that totally works for me. We can't do it in the USA because of our laws, but if Russia can... go for it! People who are multiple offenders seem to be incurable under current regimes... best to lock them away if no other option exists. Better a child rapist be in jail than more kids are harmed.
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ExoticAnimal

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#8 ExoticAnimal
Member since 2010 • 39796 Posts
[QUOTE="ExoticAnimal"][QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"] Again, it's been tried in the USA and Europe... it doesn't work unless the pedophile wants it to... which is unrealiable to say the least. The action of the drug (hormones really) can be counteracted with testosterone, and you'd STILL appear to be on it. I'm sure it's really hard to get Testosterone in some form in Russia... I mean Codeien is OTC, so... yeah. The second-time life setnence thing is an idea, and if it works under the russian legal system... great. The chemical bit however is a failed experiment.Frame_Dragger
I should have made my original post more clearer. I was referring to the 2nd time life sentence and bans on all parole and such.

Yeah, that totally works for me. We can't do it in the USA because of our laws, but if Russia can... go for it! People who are multiple offenders seem to be incurable under current regimes... best to lock them away if no other option exists. Better a child rapist be in jail than more kids are harmed.

We should do it here too. I just checked for registered sex offenders in my area and there are hundreds upon hundreds of names close by to me. Its not a problem for me but if I had a kid, I wouldn't want them around my child.
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almasdeathchild

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#9 almasdeathchild
Member since 2011 • 8922 Posts

meh.....murder is worse dont need another one of these threads.....but still it's nothing new

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ChampionoChumps

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#11 ChampionoChumps
Member since 2008 • 2381 Posts
Yeah the pedophile has to agree with it, but if they didn't, that would be messed up.
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Frame_Dragger

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#12 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts
Yeah the pedophile has to agree with it, but if they didn't, that would be messed up.ChampionoChumps
Ummm... they're ******g kids, they're already messed up.
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ChampionoChumps

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#13 ChampionoChumps
Member since 2008 • 2381 Posts
[QUOTE="ChampionoChumps"]Yeah the pedophile has to agree with it, but if they didn't, that would be messed up.Frame_Dragger
Ummm... they're ******g kids, they're already messed up.

Don't feel like having this argument again....
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JustPlainLucas

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#16 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80441 Posts

Ummm... they're ******g kids, they're already messed up.Frame_Dragger
I'm sure forcing a drug on people that - 'while its side effects include depression, fatigue, diabetes," - can give someone diabetes could be considered corporal punishment. If you disagree, then maybe you should write a new constitution.

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foxhound_fox

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#17 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
I hate how pedophilia is now demonised to the point where people have forgotten that they are mentally ILL and need help. But then again, it seems a lot of people need something to despise in life so they can forget about their own misgivings and issues.
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LieutenantFeist

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#19 LieutenantFeist
Member since 2008 • 1529 Posts

It really depends on the case if it makes sense, but I'd say in every case at least 20 years of imprisonment seems like a good idea.

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ChampionoChumps

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#20 ChampionoChumps
Member since 2008 • 2381 Posts
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]I hate how pedophilia is now demonised to the point where people have forgotten that they are mentally ILL and need help. But then again, it seems a lot of people need something to despise in life so they can forget about their own misgivings and issues.

True that. (Now you get to argue with Frame_Dagger :D)
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Frame_Dragger

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#22 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"]Ummm... they're ******g kids, they're already messed up.JustPlainLucas

I'm sure forcing a drug on people that - 'while its side effects include depression, fatigue, diabetes," - can give someone diabetes could be considered corporal punishment. If you disagree, then maybe you should write a new constitution.

It's Russia... my first statement was clear that if this works under their system of law, fine. AFAIK they don't operate under the US constitution. My view about what should be done in this country is different, and involves total reform of the prison system and gutted mental health infrastructure. Russia =/= USA however, so I was being topical... and frankly didn't want to rehash a debate any more than ChanionoChumps wants to.
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Frame_Dragger

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#23 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts

[QUOTE="ChampionoChumps"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]I hate how pedophilia is now demonised to the point where people have forgotten that they are mentally ILL and need help. But then again, it seems a lot of people need something to despise in life so they can forget about their own misgivings and issues.InEMplease

True that. (Now you get to argue with Frame_Dagger :D)

As long as you instruct him to write in yellow or red text...just to make his point clear.

You're making a series of really great points, and in a way that engenders my instant respect, admiration, and lasting affection. I want to hear more of what you think, and based on your posts in other threads, I expect not only to agree with those posts, but do be in awe of your delivery.

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Kcube

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#24 Kcube
Member since 2003 • 25398 Posts
Drugging them won't work. My fix is simple..If someone is a pedo change their sex.
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SquirrelTamer

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#25 SquirrelTamer
Member since 2011 • 1185 Posts
[QUOTE="Kcube"]Drugging them won't work. My fix is simple..If someone is a pedo change their sex.

How would that help?
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Kcube

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#26 Kcube
Member since 2003 • 25398 Posts
[QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"][QUOTE="Kcube"]Drugging them won't work. My fix is simple..If someone is a pedo change their sex.

How would that help?

It would be funny..make a man a woman and a woman a man.
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SquirrelTamer

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#27 SquirrelTamer
Member since 2011 • 1185 Posts
[QUOTE="Kcube"][QUOTE="SquirrelTamer"][QUOTE="Kcube"]Drugging them won't work. My fix is simple..If someone is a pedo change their sex.

How would that help?

It would be funny..make a man a woman and a woman a man.

It wouldn't help that much though... But as long as it's funny why the hell not?
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jimmyjammer69

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#28 jimmyjammer69
Member since 2008 • 12239 Posts
I'm pretty sure this already exists in the US. I've got mixed feelings, but it can't be such a bad option if it's voluntary and effective.
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chandlerr_360

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#29 chandlerr_360
Member since 2006 • 5078 Posts

Or you know, you could just always chemically execute them...not that I would be for that or anything, no way, it makes far too much sense.

But seriously lets be honest, people who are capable of commiting such heinous acts really have no place in society. Trying to reintegrate them is usually ineffective, jailing them is inefficient and costly, and rehabiliting them seems to not work so well eithersince the repeat offenses for molesters and pedophiles tend to be pretty high.

So as far as common sense goes, the two obvious options are either execution (if PROVEN, beyond a shadow of a doubt) or to exile/deport them to have them ruin the innocent young life of another child somewhere else around the globe I guess. If you can do it once, you can do it again.

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Johnny_Rock

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#30 Johnny_Rock
Member since 2002 • 40314 Posts

So what happens if you're falsely accused? Fightingfan

Of course this would not be applied until after a trial.

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Just-Breathe

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#31 Just-Breathe
Member since 2011 • 3130 Posts
For those wondering, chemical castration involves giving the men drugs that make you unable to feel sexually aroused. There is no surgery involved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration Also, people have to remember that pedophile and child molester are two different things. The article does refer to child molesters as being the ones who will be chemically castrated.
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LJS9502_basic

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#32 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180144 Posts
I think if they touch a child they stay isolated from society.
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Frame_Dragger

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#33 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts
I'm pretty sure this already exists in the US. I've got mixed feelings, but it can't be such a bad option if it's voluntary and effective.jimmyjammer69
It's not effective; pedophiles realized that they could do things like take testosterone, or use a topical testosterone gel/cream and temporarily bypass the effects, and still pass their screening. It's a false sense of security, which in this case is not helpful. It IS arguably useful for pedophiles who are not actually child molesters, but want to be free of their sex drive, but that's not the context it's being used in here. It's ironic... this is a case where a pedophile who isn't a child molester makes a far better candidate than a child molester.
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Just-Breathe

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#34 Just-Breathe
Member since 2011 • 3130 Posts
I think if they touch a child they stay isolated from society.LJS9502_basic
Or they could also receive the help they need and possibly be integrated back into society. Of course there are always people who cannot be helped, unfortunately.
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foxhound_fox

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#35 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Of course this would not be applied until after a trial.Johnny_Rock
Unfortunately, due to the mindset of many Americans being "guilty until proven innocent" that is a major problem. Also, there is another significant problem, people who deal in child sex abuse media (images and videos) tend to know a lot about computers, allowing them to easily break into an innocent person's network, and hide all their material their rather than on a personal computer. Which can lead to a very long sentence in the US (Americans despise child sex abuse images so much, they hand out a two year sentence for EACH image someone us caught in possession of). So an innocent person who doesn't have proper network security could end up in jail for the rest of their life, and have no way of proving their innocence. My biggest problem with the "war on child sex abuse" is that we aren't trying to help the mentally ill people doing these things... just lock them away. But then again, what is else new?
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LJS9502_basic

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#36 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180144 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I think if they touch a child they stay isolated from society.Just-Breathe
Or they could also receive the help they need and possibly be integrated back into society. Of course there are always people who cannot be helped, unfortunately.

You can't make a pedophile stop being a pedophile. Thus, you can only contain those that act on urges.
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-Unreal-

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#37 -Unreal-
Member since 2004 • 24650 Posts

Wonder what happens to them in China.

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LJS9502_basic

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#38 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180144 Posts
[QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]Of course this would not be applied until after a trial.foxhound_fox
Unfortunately, due to the mindset of many Americans being "guilty until proven innocent" that is a major problem. Also, there is another significant problem, people who deal in child sex abuse media (images and videos) tend to know a lot about computers, allowing them to easily break into an innocent person's network, and hide all their material their rather than on a personal computer. Which can lead to a very long sentence in the US (Americans despise child sex abuse images so much, they hand out a two year sentence for EACH image someone us caught in possession of). So an innocent person who doesn't have proper network security could end up in jail for the rest of their life, and have no way of proving their innocence. My biggest problem with the "war on child sex abuse" is that we aren't trying to help the mentally ill people doing these things... just lock them away. But then again, what is else new?

Yeah that isn't how the justice system works. And frankly it doesn't matter what opinion Joe Public has if one is acquitted in court....one is acquitted in court. You cannot change the sexual interests of individuals. A pedophile will always be attracted to children. The question is....can they use self control? And for the sake of the children....if they have displayed that they cannot....then they should not be allowed near children anymore. Too much of a risk and the innocent should be protected before the guilty.
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tenaka2

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#39 tenaka2
Member since 2004 • 17958 Posts

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]Of course this would not be applied until after a trial.LJS9502_basic
Unfortunately, due to the mindset of many Americans being "guilty until proven innocent" that is a major problem. Also, there is another significant problem, people who deal in child sex abuse media (images and videos) tend to know a lot about computers, allowing them to easily break into an innocent person's network, and hide all their material their rather than on a personal computer. Which can lead to a very long sentence in the US (Americans despise child sex abuse images so much, they hand out a two year sentence for EACH image someone us caught in possession of). So an innocent person who doesn't have proper network security could end up in jail for the rest of their life, and have no way of proving their innocence. My biggest problem with the "war on child sex abuse" is that we aren't trying to help the mentally ill people doing these things... just lock them away. But then again, what is else new?

Yeah that isn't how the justice system works. And frankly it doesn't matter what opinion Joe Public has if one is acquitted in court....one is acquitted in court. You cannot change the sexual interests of individuals. A pedophile will always be attracted to children. The question is....can they use self control? And for the sake of the children....if they have displayed that they cannot....then they should not be allowed near children anymore. Too much of a risk and the innocent should be protected before the guilty.

it would seem we agree once again :)

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surrealnumber5

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#40 surrealnumber5
Member since 2008 • 23044 Posts
so if the us decriminalizes drugs russia will have the largest prison population? neat
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LJS9502_basic

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#41 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180144 Posts
it would seem we agree once again :)tenaka2
Again?:o It happens.:P
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foxhound_fox

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#42 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
You cannot change the sexual interests of individuals.LJS9502_basic
You can't say that with any sort of certainty. Sexual psychology is still in its infancy. As is the mapping of the human brain (on a non-visual scale). Once we know why people develop these sexual thoughts, there is a possibility that can be fixed. To think that science can never find an answer, and prevent people from ever getting this way (and thus saving children from the abuse in the first place) is very close-minded of you. But not really unexpected.
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comp_atkins

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#43 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38934 Posts
[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="ExoticAnimal"] I should have made my original post more clearer. I was referring to the 2nd time life sentence and bans on all parole and such. ExoticAnimal
Yeah, that totally works for me. We can't do it in the USA because of our laws, but if Russia can... go for it! People who are multiple offenders seem to be incurable under current regimes... best to lock them away if no other option exists. Better a child rapist be in jail than more kids are harmed.

We should do it here too. I just checked for registered sex offenders in my area and there are hundreds upon hundreds of names close by to me. Its not a problem for me but if I had a kid, I wouldn't want them around my child.

there have been hundreds upon hundreds of "sex offenders" living around children for ever.. the only difference is now you know about them.
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Frame_Dragger

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#45 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="Johnny_Rock"]Of course this would not be applied until after a trial.LJS9502_basic
Unfortunately, due to the mindset of many Americans being "guilty until proven innocent" that is a major problem. Also, there is another significant problem, people who deal in child sex abuse media (images and videos) tend to know a lot about computers, allowing them to easily break into an innocent person's network, and hide all their material their rather than on a personal computer. Which can lead to a very long sentence in the US (Americans despise child sex abuse images so much, they hand out a two year sentence for EACH image someone us caught in possession of). So an innocent person who doesn't have proper network security could end up in jail for the rest of their life, and have no way of proving their innocence. My biggest problem with the "war on child sex abuse" is that we aren't trying to help the mentally ill people doing these things... just lock them away. But then again, what is else new?

Yeah that isn't how the justice system works. And frankly it doesn't matter what opinion Joe Public has if one is acquitted in court....one is acquitted in court. You cannot change the sexual interests of individuals. A pedophile will always be attracted to children. The question is....can they use self control? And for the sake of the children....if they have displayed that they cannot....then they should not be allowed near children anymore. Too much of a risk and the innocent should be protected before the guilty.

This is a good point, but the thing is we've so gutted our mental health infrastructure and so bloated and homogeonized our prison system that there is no humane place to "put" these people to seperate them from society. Our laws which keep the courts from keeping people in prison for life are more precious than anything, and yes, I include children. Those children's futures could be very grim if we ignored our principles to lock away the mentally ill in prison.

We can't possibly continue the way we are, and expect success. We need to deal with addicts as ADDICTS, not criminals, and seperate them from people who indulge in drugs as part of a general pattern of criminality or the self-destructive actions of a sociopath. Those who are criminals, but not sociopathic should be placed in progressive prisons, educated, and reformed to be re-intigrated into society. Our system was meant to be about reform, not slaking the desire for revenge people have.

Sociopaths, as long as no viable treatment exists, should be kept seperately from others under the kind of strict controls they require. they're a constant risk to themselves and others, and removing them from a general population of criminals is only prudent. People who are drug addicts... need to be treated as such. If they committed crimes then they need to do the time for it, but in the context of also dealing with their addictions so that we're not running revolving doors, and packing prisons. If you have addicts who don't commit crimes beyond posession/use.. they shouldn't be in jail at all, but treatment. It's better for them, cheaper for society, and it's humane.

Finally, child molesters, violent sex offenders (i.e. rapists and the like), but not some twit who pisses in a park and gets on a list of sex offenders... need to be contained. It would generally seem that rapists and child molesters share a common trait, which is that they will continue their actions if not contained. IMO, they should be contained under the care of doctors, and released only on their orders as per 'mental defect' law. We'd need to be vigilant that it doesn't become an exercise in warehousing, but rather humane attempts to treat these people, reasearch their conditions and find ways to overcome them. In the meantime, as long as those treatments DON'T exist, they would be living in humane facilities in wich they are not allowed to harm each other, be harmed by mainstream criminals and gangs, and can be a subject of voluntary research into cures/treatments.

ALL of this would save us money in the long run, compared to warehousing people like wild animals in our prison system, which simply does NOT work. It's not soft on crime, just practical and it leavs the law intact so that if you commit crime you don't go to jail forever because it's deemed a "speical" crime. The mentally ill are recognized as such, criminals are recognized, addicts are recognized, and those who committ serial offenses, and sociopaths are too. We can either come to this eventually, or watch as our system collapses under its own weight; we already will look back on this period in the USA with shame... do we have to continue?

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#46 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"]

[QUOTE="InEMplease"]

As long as you instruct him to write in yellow or red text...just to make his point clear.

InEMplease

You're making a series of really great points, and in a way that engenders my instant respect, admiration, and lasting affection. I want to hear more of what you think, and based on your posts in other threads, I expect not only to agree with those posts, but do be in awe of your delivery.

Red = scary. O_O

You're a funny guy, say more stuff that makes us all think deeply about important issue.

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Frame_Dragger

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#48 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts
[QUOTE="InEMplease"]

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"]

[QUOTE="InEMplease"]

Red = scary. O_O

You're a funny guy, say more stuff that makes us all think deeply about important issue.

Real men write in pink?

You're the Jack*** fan... you tell me. Get a medium and lets see what Ryan Dunn thinks about this. :)
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#50 Frame_Dragger
Member since 2009 • 9581 Posts

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"][QUOTE="InEMplease"]

Real men write in pink?

InEMplease

You're the Jack*** fan... you tell me. Get a medium and lets see what Ryan Dunn thinks about this. :)

You can say "jackass."

Ryan loves pink.

I thought he loved flaming red?

edit: My bad, I meant charcoal black