So, can someone explain the USA healcare system to me?

So you have to pay for it, got that far, and you can chose to insure yourself if you can afford it. But what about people who can't afford insurance, do they still get treated and left with a bill? or are they just ignored and don't get treatment?

Thanks to anyone who answers.

If you don't have insurance, you are totally screwed. If you have insurance, you are screwed but not as badly.

People can get treatment but it's very expensive so most people don't. You can be treated but you will be billed.

Even people with insurance have to pay as insurance doesn't cover everything. There are varying levels and insurance products out there.

People without insurance can get SOME treatment (not all), but if they have a serious / expensive illness they're often out of luck.

You get what you pay for, which is a better system than socialized health care. Socialized health care creates disincentives for doctors, long lines, and an overall lack of quality in health care.Strider212

You might get what you pay for, but what if you cannot afford treatment you need?

[QUOTE="Strider212"]You get what you pay for, which is a better system than socialized health care. Socialized health care creates disincentives for doctors, long lines, and an overall lack of quality in health care.Engrish_Major

You might get what you pay for, but what if you cannot afford treatment you need?

You're SOL.

A harsh reality of life, but a true one.

You get what you pay for, which is a better system than socialized health care. Socialized health care creates disincentives for doctors, long lines, and an overall lack of quality in health care.Strider212

To an extent maybe, but the NHS in Britain may have it's problems, but I'd rather have free health care for those that can't afford it, then for those same people to go without any heath care just because they can't afford to get any.

At least here in Britain you can go private as well...but the NHS is always there for those who can't afford to.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]

[QUOTE="Strider212"]You get what you pay for, which is a better system than socialized health care. Socialized health care creates disincentives for doctors, long lines, and an overall lack of quality in health care.Strider212

You might get what you pay for, but what if you cannot afford treatment you need?

You're SOL.

That's exactly why we need a better system.

If you don't have insurance, you are totally screwed. If you have insurance, you are screwed but not as badly.

People can get treatment but it's very expensive so most people don't. You can be treated but you will be billed.

Boba_Fett_3710

Well that sucks. NHS for the win; we pay for it in our taxes (if anyone didn't know that). Wouldn't it be possible for the US to do something similer, as that health system seems to be making profit out of sickness. Can't be that hard; just increase the taxes slightly and make healthcare free.

Private health care isn't that much better over here, just shorter lines. Cuba seems to have done health care right, from what I've heard.

If you can't pay you get treated and left with the bill. Hospitals can't deny you care if they have an emergency room.

Some people qualify for the government's healthcare.

If you have health insurance you pay what the insurance company doesn't cover.

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]

If you don't have insurance, you are totally screwed. If you have insurance, you are screwed but not as badly.

People can get treatment but it's very expensive so most people don't. You can be treated but you will be billed.

redwolf22

Well that sucks. NHS for the win; we pay for it in our taxes (if anyone didn't know that). Wouldn't it be possible for the US to do something similer, as that health system seems to be making profit out of sickness. Can't be that hard; just increase the taxes slightly and make healthcare free.

We're probably headed towards something like that. More of a hybrid system where you can have private insurance if you want to, but providers will not be able to cancel your coverage if you get sick.

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]

If you don't have insurance, you are totally screwed. If you have insurance, you are screwed but not as badly.

People can get treatment but it's very expensive so most people don't. You can be treated but you will be billed.

redwolf22

Well that sucks. NHS for the win; we pay for it in our taxes (if anyone didn't know that). Wouldn't it be possible for the US to do something similer, as that health system seems to be making profit out of sickness. Can't be that hard; just increase the taxes slightly and make healthcare free.

Honestly, I would love healthcare to be included in our taxes. The insurance I have with my job is taken out of my paycheck anyways so I really don't see the difference.

[QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]

If you don't have insurance, you are totally screwed. If you have insurance, you are screwed but not as badly.

People can get treatment but it's very expensive so most people don't. You can be treated but you will be billed.

redwolf22

Well that sucks. NHS for the win; we pay for it in our taxes (if anyone didn't know that). Wouldn't it be possible for the US to do something similer, as that health system seems to be making profit out of sickness. Can't be that hard; just increase the taxes slightly and make healthcare free.

Yes it is possible. It would take a lot of work, but yeah the American system stinks, and is getting worse.

[QUOTE="Strider212"]You get what you pay for, which is a better system than socialized health care. Socialized health care creates disincentives for doctors, long lines, and an overall lack of quality in health care.Wren28

To an extent maybe, but the NHS in Britain may have it's problems, but I'd rather have free health care for those that can't afford it, then for those same people to go without any heath care just because they can't afford to get any.

At least here in Britain you can go private as well...but the NHS is always there for those who can't afford to.

Furthermore, patients that have no business being at the hospitals (i.e. colds) create long lines because the cost of health care is driven down to zero. This means that real emergencies have to fight through the masses before they can be given legitimate health care.

The economics of handouts teaches that its costs outweigh the benefits, which means that is not socially optimal.

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]

[QUOTE="Strider212"]You get what you pay for, which is a better system than socialized health care. Socialized health care creates disincentives for doctors, long lines, and an overall lack of quality in health care.Engrish_Major

You might get what you pay for, but what if you cannot afford treatment you need?

You're SOL.

That's exactly why we need a better system.

That system ought not be associated with socialization. Even with all of the ridiculous taxes that doctors pay, the U.S. health care system is still the best in the entire world. Why do you think people come from Canada to receive treatment in the U.S.? The quality is much better.

And that health care is of a much lower quality than private health care. Socialization of health care creates HUGE disincentives for doctors. Rather than getting paid for their productivity as doctors, they are paid a flat rate. This is essentially like tenuring your supply of doctors.

Furthermore, patients that have no business being at the hospitals (i.e. colds) create long lines because the cost of health care is driven down to zero. This means that real emergencies have to fight through the masses before they can be given legitimate health care.

The economics of handouts teaches that its costs outweigh the benefits, which means that is not socially optimal.

Strider212

The incentive for doctors/insurance companies now is not to heal patients, it is to make a profit. That is a backwards incentive to me.

[QUOTE="redwolf22"][QUOTE="Boba_Fett_3710"]

If you don't have insurance, you are totally screwed. If you have insurance, you are screwed but not as badly.

People can get treatment but it's very expensive so most people don't. You can be treated but you will be billed.

duxup

Well that sucks. NHS for the win; we pay for it in our taxes (if anyone didn't know that). Wouldn't it be possible for the US to do something similer, as that health system seems to be making profit out of sickness. Can't be that hard; just increase the taxes slightly and make healthcare free.

Yes it is possible. It would take a lot of work, but yeah the American system stinks, and is getting worse.

That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.

That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.Strider212

[QUOTE="Strider212"]That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.Engrish_Major

US healthcare blows. I can't apply for a job unless I get full health coverage. I currently have 2 health insurance providers because health care in America is so bad.

[QUOTE="Wren28"]

[QUOTE="Strider212"]You get what you pay for, which is a better system than socialized health care. Socialized health care creates disincentives for doctors, long lines, and an overall lack of quality in health care.Strider212

To an extent maybe, but the NHS in Britain may have it's problems, but I'd rather have free health care for those that can't afford it, then for those same people to go without any heath care just because they can't afford to get any.

At least here in Britain you can go private as well...but the NHS is always there for those who can't afford to.

Furthermore, patients that have no business being at the hospitals (i.e. colds) create long lines because the cost of health care is driven down to zero. This means that real emergencies have to fight through the masses before they can be given legitimate health care.

The economics of handouts teaches that its costs outweigh the benefits, which means that is not socially optimal.

I don't know...I've been to doctors in America and in Britain and have had excellent treatment in both places...in fact, over here in England I finally got my tonsils taken out, which no insurance company in the States would pay for and the doctors wouldn't recommend it even though I had tonsilitis more than once every year for more than 12 years...and they were over large. Doctor over here took one look at them and said they HAD to come out. And for the other reasons, they have been just helpful...

[QUOTE="Strider212"]

And that health care is of a much lower quality than private health care. Socialization of health care creates HUGE disincentives for doctors. Rather than getting paid for their productivity as doctors, they are paid a flat rate. This is essentially like tenuring your supply of doctors.

Furthermore, patients that have no business being at the hospitals (i.e. colds) create long lines because the cost of health care is driven down to zero. This means that real emergencies have to fight through the masses before they can be given legitimate health care.

The economics of handouts teaches that its costs outweigh the benefits, which means that is not socially optimal.

Engrish_Major

The incentive for doctors/insurance companies now is not to heal patients, it is to make a profit. That is a backwards incentive to me.

Their incentive, like every other profession, is to heal people and to make good money doing it. If you remove the chance to make good money, you remove the incentive to provide quality health care. Remember, if they are an awful doctor, they may be fired or sued for malpractice. With socialized health care, there would be less care about the health of patients because they have no opportunity to be paid more.

Simple economic analysis.

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="redwolf22"]

Well that sucks. NHS for the win; we pay for it in our taxes (if anyone didn't know that). Wouldn't it be possible for the US to do something similer, as that health system seems to be making profit out of sickness. Can't be that hard; just increase the taxes slightly and make healthcare free.

Strider212

Yes it is possible. It would take a lot of work, but yeah the American system stinks, and is getting worse.

That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.

so true indeed. they can afford a ps3, but not a few checkups...so sad.

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="redwolf22"]

Well that sucks. NHS for the win; we pay for it in our taxes (if anyone didn't know that). Wouldn't it be possible for the US to do something similer, as that health system seems to be making profit out of sickness. Can't be that hard; just increase the taxes slightly and make healthcare free.

Strider212

Yes it is possible. It would take a lot of work, but yeah the American system stinks, and is getting worse.

That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.

If your being serious, take a look around at other countries beside the UK. Hey the NHS isn't perfect, but it gets the job done in a way that helps everyone. Theres alot of better systems out there.

First off, doctors do not make nearly as much money as you think they do. The AMA has to control the supply of doctors up in order to even keep their wages at a decent level. Second, doctors work more hours than normal professions, yet they still do not make enough money, due to the taxes that they pay.

Their incentive, like every other profession, is to heal people and to make good money doing it. If you remove the chance to make good money, you remove the incentive to provide quality health care. Remember, if they are an awful doctor, they may be fired or sued for malpractice. With socialized health care, there would be less care about the health of patients because they have no opportunity to be paid more.

Simple economic analysis.

Strider212

Even if the doctors did have the right incentives, the insurance companies do not. And they are often the deciding factor on whether or not a treatment is done. The problem in the US is not the doctors, it is the for-profit corporations that have a hand in everything.

[QUOTE="Strider212"]That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.Engrish_Major

Alright quote me one; however, realize that I have several doctors in my family that would know better than you or I. Again, why does the U.S. draw so many experts from other countries to practice here? It is because there is a better opportunity to make money than their socialized home countries. When you attract the talent, you attract the quality.

Easy enough? No?

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Strider212"]That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.Boba_Fett_3710

US healthcare blows. I can't apply for a job unless I get full health coverage. I currently have 2 health insurance providers because health care in America is so bad.

That isn't a problem with the health care itself. That is a problem with the insurance companies. Those two are not one in the same.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Strider212"]That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.Strider212

Alright quote me one; however, realize that I have several doctors in my family that would know better than you or I. Again, why does the U.S. draw so many experts from other countries to practice here? It is because there is a better opportunity to make money than their socialized home countries. When you attract the talent, you attract the quality.

Easy enough? No?

[QUOTE="Strider212"]

First off, doctors do not make nearly as much money as you think they do. The AMA has to control the supply of doctors up in order to even keep their wages at a decent level. Second, doctors work more hours than normal professions, yet they still do not make enough money, due to the taxes that they pay.

Their incentive, like every other profession, is to heal people and to make good money doing it. If you remove the chance to make good money, you remove the incentive to provide quality health care. Remember, if they are an awful doctor, they may be fired or sued for malpractice. With socialized health care, there would be less care about the health of patients because they have no opportunity to be paid more.

Simple economic analysis.

Engrish_Major

Even if the doctors did have the right incentives, the insurance companies do not. And they are often the deciding factor on whether or not a treatment is done. The problem in the US is not the doctors, it is the for-profit corporations that have a hand in everything.

Then that's another issue. I can agree with you that insurance companies pose huge problems, but that problem doesn't rest on the shoulders of the medical community, it rests on the shoulders of the insurance companies.

I'd still rather have a fair healthcare system. A system in which everyone gets decent health-care instead of the rich getting great health care and the poor getting screwed.

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="duxup"]

Yes it is possible. It would take a lot of work, but yeah the American system stinks, and is getting worse.

redwolf22

That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.

If your being serious, take a look around at other countries beside the UK. Hey the NHS isn't perfect, but it gets the job done in a way that helps everyone. Theres alot of better systems out there.

But see it doesn't help everyone. Don't think about the immediate visible effects but the immediate unseen effects. Any economist will tell you that socializtion of any good is an AWFUL idea. It creates long lines and clogs the system due to the fact that the good is priced at zero dollars. This means everyone is clammoring for something that is free, which means that the people that truly need that health care cannot gain access to it because the system is clogged; however, if you allow people to pay for their health care, only the people that truly need it will pay for it, ensuring that those people receive their proper health care.

I'd still rather have a fair healthcare system. A system in which everyone gets decent health-care instead of the rich getting great health care and the poor getting screwed.

Luncbox1

Yeah. America is the best if you are rich. But for everyone else...

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Strider212"]That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.Strider212

Alright quote me one; however, realize that I have several doctors in my family that would know better than you or I. Again, why does the U.S. draw so many experts from other countries to practice here? It is because there is a better opportunity to make money than their socialized home countries. When you attract the talent, you attract the quality.

Easy enough? No?

Bad attitude. Its possible with the correct funding and management, a effienct none-profit system could be made that would elimanate the lack of "incentive" these doctors seem to have. Last time I checked, my cousin was doing it because he wanted to help people.

And America doesn't attract most of the talent, which is only usefull when developing new medicine. Other wise, it doesn't make that much of a difference in general use.

I'd still rather have a fair healthcare system. A system in which everyone gets decent health-care instead of the rich getting great health care and the poor getting screwed.

Luncbox1

Trust me, you wouldn't. If you were suffering from a heart attack and you arrived at the hospital, only to find 100 people ahead of you, you would certainly change your tune.

Everyone seems to be willing to give up a little of their own comfort, that is until they're in the situation themselves.

[QUOTE="Luncbox1"]

I'd still rather have a fair healthcare system. A system in which everyone gets decent health-care instead of the rich getting great health care and the poor getting screwed.

Strider212

Trust me, you wouldn't. If you were suffering from a heart attack and you arrived at the hospital, only to find 100 people ahead of you, you would certainly change your tune.

Everyone seems to be willing to give up a little of their own comfort, that is until they're in the situation themselves.

Did you read the study I posted? The US is not even close to the most efficient system. Why does everyone assume that you have to wait in such long lines in other countries?

[QUOTE="redwolf22"][QUOTE="Strider212"]

That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.

Strider212

If your being serious, take a look around at other countries beside the UK. Hey the NHS isn't perfect, but it gets the job done in a way that helps everyone. Theres alot of better systems out there.

But see it doesn't help everyone. Don't think about the immediate visible effects but the immediate unseen effects. Any economist will tell you that socializtion of any good is an AWFUL idea. It creates long lines and clogs the system due to the fact that the good is priced at zero dollars. This means everyone is clammoring for something that is free, which means that the people that truly need that health care cannot gain access to it because the system is clogged; however, if you allow people to pay for their health care, only the people that truly need it will pay for it, ensuring that those people receive their proper health care.

It's not the ones who truly need it that will get healthcare. It's the ones who can afford it. Rich family brings their kid in who has a head cold. Poor father can't afford to send his wife for cancer treatment, and so she dies.

Neither of us have cited any sources. Both our statements are completely true.

[QUOTE="Strider212"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"] Not according to most studies, it is not.redwolf22

Alright quote me one; however, realize that I have several doctors in my family that would know better than you or I. Again, why does the U.S. draw so many experts from other countries to practice here? It is because there is a better opportunity to make money than their socialized home countries. When you attract the talent, you attract the quality.

Easy enough? No?

Bad attitude. Its possible with the correct funding and management, a effienct none-profit system could be made that would elimanate the lack of "incentive" these doctors seem to have. Last time I checked, my cousin was doing it because he wanted to help people.

And America doesn't attract most of the talent, which is only usefull when developing new medicine. Other wise, it doesn't make that much of a difference in general use.

How? What economic incentive could you provide that is stronger than the ability to make more money?

Your cousin may say his reasoning for being a doctor is strictly so that he can help people, but let's see what he says when his pay drops by $30,000 or $40,000?

My brother-in-law and my sister are both doctors, and while they do in fact enjoy helping people, they also enjoy making money and enjoy being compensated for the hard work that they do. Removing that is a disservice to doctors everywhere. We might as well socialize everything else, just to be "fair".

And that health care is of a much lower quality than private health care. Socialization of health care creates HUGE disincentives for doctors. Rather than getting paid for their productivity as doctors, they are paid a flat rate. This is essentially like tenuring your supply of doctors.

Furthermore, patients that have no business being at the hospitals (i.e. colds) create long lines because the cost of health care is driven down to zero. This means that real emergencies have to fight through the masses before they can be given legitimate health care.

The economics of handouts teaches that its costs outweigh the benefits, which means that is not socially optimal.Strider212

I'm a bit late, but i'd like to contradict all of this.

I luckily have NHS available, and i must say all your points are misguided. The quality of the health care depends on the doctors. pretty much all the doctors i had were very good, mostly because it is very hard to become a doctor where i live. If they went for it, they did it because they enjoyed it, and that's much better than going for it for the money. That alone makes sure you're being taken care of by someone who really wants to help you, assuring a good health care service.

Next, as far as i know, you DO get paid by productivity. And even if you're not working much, you're still getting paid a lot more that most people.

Finally, as anyone could have guessed, we have different services for different situations. If something urgent appears, hospitals can take care of you immediately, while patients with smaller problems can still be treated separately.

And of course, you have the benefit of not paying. My grandmother is going through cancer, and not one cent is coming out of her pocket, and she has at her disposal the best care in the country. Not bad, eh.

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="Luncbox1"]

I'd still rather have a fair healthcare system. A system in which everyone gets decent health-care instead of the rich getting great health care and the poor getting screwed.

Engrish_Major

Trust me, you wouldn't. If you were suffering from a heart attack and you arrived at the hospital, only to find 100 people ahead of you, you would certainly change your tune.

Everyone seems to be willing to give up a little of their own comfort, that is until they're in the situation themselves.

Did you read the study I posted? The US is not even close to the most efficient system. Why does everyone assume that you have to wait in such long lines in other countries?

Begging your pardon, but I cannot seem to find any study that you've posted.

Furthermore, would you like me to draw an economic mathematical model so that you can see why you are wrong? Math doesn't lie.

Let me give you an example: one of my economics professors was abroad in Europe when he suffered from a terrible allergic reaction. If this reaction isn't treated, he can die within a couple of days. So, he called the local hospital and asked if he could see a doctor. He said that he would pay in cash. When he arrived at the hospital, he found close to 100 people in the waiting room, yet as soon as he checked in, he was immediatley called by name, treated, and released, circumventing all of the others in line.

Why was all this? Because this country had socialized health care and he was paying in cash, which means this hospital stood to make more money in treating him over the other patients.

Simple economics. It's all about incentives.

[QUOTE="redwolf22"][QUOTE="Strider212"]

Alright quote me one; however, realize that I have several doctors in my family that would know better than you or I. Again, why does the U.S. draw so many experts from other countries to practice here? It is because there is a better opportunity to make money than their socialized home countries. When you attract the talent, you attract the quality.

Easy enough? No?

Strider212

Bad attitude. Its possible with the correct funding and management, a effienct none-profit system could be made that would elimanate the lack of "incentive" these doctors seem to have. Last time I checked, my cousin was doing it because he wanted to help people.

And America doesn't attract most of the talent, which is only usefull when developing new medicine. Other wise, it doesn't make that much of a difference in general use.

How? What economic incentive could you provide that is stronger than the ability to make more money?

Your cousin may say his reasoning for being a doctor is strictly so that he can help people, but let's see what he says when his pay drops by $30,000 or $40,000?

My brother-in-law and my sister are both doctors, and while they do in fact enjoy helping people, they also enjoy making money and enjoy being compensated for the hard work that they do. Removing that is a disservice to doctors everywhere. We might as well socialize everything else, just to be "fair".

Some do not believe that it is right to make money from the wallets of sick and dying people.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="Strider212"]

Trust me, you wouldn't. If you were suffering from a heart attack and you arrived at the hospital, only to find 100 people ahead of you, you would certainly change your tune.

Everyone seems to be willing to give up a little of their own comfort, that is until they're in the situation themselves.

Strider212

Did you read the study I posted? The US is not even close to the most efficient system. Why does everyone assume that you have to wait in such long lines in other countries?

Begging your pardon, but I cannot seem to find any study that you've posted.

Furthermore, would you like me to draw an economic mathematical model so that you can see why you are wrong? Math doesn't lie.

Let me give you an example: one of my economics professors was abroad in Europe when he suffered from a terrible allergic reaction. If this reaction isn't treated, he can die within a couple of days. So, he called the local hospital and asked if he could see a doctor. He said that he would pay in cash. When he arrived at the hospital, he found close to 100 people in the waiting room, yet as soon as he checked in, he was immediatley called by name, treated, and released, circumventing all of the others in line.

Why was all this? Because this country had socialized health care and he was paying in cash, which means this hospital stood to make more money in treating him over the other patients.

Simple economics. It's all about incentives.

:roll: it's on the previous page. I quoted your post asking for it. Again, it is here.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678

[QUOTE="Strider212"][QUOTE="redwolf22"]

Bad attitude. Its possible with the correct funding and management, a effienct none-profit system could be made that would elimanate the lack of "incentive" these doctors seem to have. Last time I checked, my cousin was doing it because he wanted to help people.

And America doesn't attract most of the talent, which is only usefull when developing new medicine. Other wise, it doesn't make that much of a difference in general use.

Engrish_Major

How? What economic incentive could you provide that is stronger than the ability to make more money?

Your cousin may say his reasoning for being a doctor is strictly so that he can help people, but let's see what he says when his pay drops by $30,000 or $40,000?

My brother-in-law and my sister are both doctors, and while they do in fact enjoy helping people, they also enjoy making money and enjoy being compensated for the hard work that they do. Removing that is a disservice to doctors everywhere. We might as well socialize everything else, just to be "fair".

Some do not believe that it is right to make money from the wallets of sick and dying people.

[QUOTE="redwolf22"][QUOTE="Strider212"]

That is a myth. The U.S. health care system is the absolute best in the world.

Strider212

If your being serious, take a look around at other countries beside the UK. Hey the NHS isn't perfect, but it gets the job done in a way that helps everyone. Theres alot of better systems out there.

But see it doesn't help everyone. Don't think about the immediate visible effects but the immediate unseen effects. Any economist will tell you that socializtion of any good is an AWFUL idea. It creates long lines and clogs the system due to the fact that the good is priced at zero dollars. This means everyone is clammoring for something that is free, which means that the people that truly need that health care cannot gain access to it because the system is clogged; however, if you allow people to pay for their health care, only the people that truly need it will pay for it, ensuring that those people receive their proper health care.

And the rest are just left to die, sound kinda familiar? Not to mention insurance doesn't even pay the whole thing, its just a coupon. What kind of good healthcare is it when the majority can't even afford it?

So how does that belief fix our problem? If a doctor isn't making money, how are they feeding themselves? Doctors are paid on what they know and their ability to execute that knowledge to the best of their ability. If you believe that doctors exist to exploit the sick, then we no longer need to discuss anything else. Next time you are sick, tell your doctor what you think of the hippocratic oath that they took and see how they react. Strider212

Doctors in other industrialized countries seem to be doing pretty well.

[QUOTE="Luncbox1"]

I'd still rather have a fair healthcare system. A system in which everyone gets decent health-care instead of the rich getting great health care and the poor getting screwed.

Strider212

Trust me, you wouldn't. If you were suffering from a heart attack and you arrived at the hospital, only to find 100 people ahead of you, you would certainly change your tune.

Everyone seems to be willing to give up a little of their own comfort, that is until they're in the situation themselves.

Have you even been to a British Hospital or are you simply basing your argument on logic and economics? The NHS may not be perfect, indeed its far from it but it provides free healthcare from 'the cradle to the grave' and its been running since 1948 without many earth shatering problems.

Your comment about a person with a heart attack dying because there was 100 people in front of them is utter rubbish! The system is worked the same as private hospital with a trianage system.

As for pay, you do realise that many NHS consultants also do private work too. When the NHS was first formed many doctors wouldn't sign up untill the government of the day decided to allow them to continue with their private work.