So did everyone go to Hell before Jesus?

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Cwagmire21

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#1 Cwagmire21
Member since 2007 • 5896 Posts

Ok, so in the Old Testament you pretty much had to be perfect to go to heaven - but in the New Testament, Jesus saves you for your sins and with faith in him, you go to heaven.

So are all the people who existed and died before Jesus rotting in hell since Jesus hadn't come yet to save them?

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Luncbox1

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#2 Luncbox1
Member since 2006 • 4543 Posts
Some would think so.
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GTA_dude

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#3 GTA_dude
Member since 2004 • 18358 Posts
I was thinking about this question about 5 months ago....
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senses_fail_06

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#4 senses_fail_06
Member since 2006 • 7033 Posts
You repented for your sins...like sacrificing animals.
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Cwagmire21

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#5 Cwagmire21
Member since 2007 • 5896 Posts
Sounds like pre-Jesus people got a sour deal.:?
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BiancaDK

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#6 BiancaDK
Member since 2008 • 19092 Posts

mhm i doubt this is how it would work, but it´s a funny notion.

:)

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dmc333

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#7 dmc333
Member since 2002 • 766 Posts
We are all going to hell anyways because the mormons are right. And I know it because some people came and knocked on my door and told me so. I'm goin' because I have a thing for satin. He's really soft.
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znator

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#8 znator
Member since 2006 • 550 Posts

Not exactly, Jesus died for our sins because he was the lamb of god, a sacrifice for our sins, in the old testament pre-Jesus you had to sacrifice a lamb in order to repent your sins, this had to be done on a yearly basis.

I have grown up in a christian household so I have learned alot from being a member of one.

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pseudodog07

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#9 pseudodog07
Member since 2008 • 1106 Posts
Christ is the alpha and omega, not just the middle part.
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Moppy64

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#10 Moppy64
Member since 2009 • 63 Posts

Righto.

Your statement is wrong. They did not have to be perfect, rather, they had to try to follow the ten commandments, and if they broke one of them, for example, adultery, they would then have sin. The way they got rid of the sin was to sacrifice a unblemished lamb. This is why when Jesus died, he was referred to as the lamb of God, which takes the sin away from the world. So when Jesus died, he died for sins. Past. Present. Future. The sins of the past were swept away, and those of the present, and of the future. This way, they did not go to hell.

Any other religious Questions?

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Luncbox1

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#11 Luncbox1
Member since 2006 • 4543 Posts

Not exactly, Jesus died for our sins because he was the lamb of god, a sacrifice for our sins, in the old testament pre-Jesus you had to sacrifice a lamb in order to repent your sins, this had to be done on a yearly basis.

I have grown up in a christian household so I have learned alot from being a member of one.

znator
Isn't that nice? God forgives your adultery because you slaughtered an innocent lamb :?
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foxhound_fox

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#12 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
No, they went to Tartarus.
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equimanthorn01

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#13 equimanthorn01
Member since 2008 • 1769 Posts

Ok, so in the Old Testament you pretty much had to be perfect to go to heaven - but in the New Testament, Jesus saves you for your sins and with faith in him, you go to heaven.

So are all the people who existed and died before Jesus rotting in hell since Jesus hadn't come yet to save them?

Cwagmire21
No. In the old testament, they did sacrefices for forgiveness for their sins. . Jesus dying on the cross eliminated the need for sacrefices because it was the ultimate sacrefice
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Me2nice

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#14 Me2nice
Member since 2008 • 459 Posts

Ok, so in the Old Testament you pretty much had to be perfect to go to heaven - but in the New Testament, Jesus saves you for your sins and with faith in him, you go to heaven.

So are all the people who existed and died before Jesus rotting in hell since Jesus hadn't come yet to save them?

Cwagmire21

I never though about that. I would think that those before him don't have to since they've been perfect and the Jesus said he'd die for our sins, he meant future generations.

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znator

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#15 znator
Member since 2006 • 550 Posts
[QUOTE="znator"]

Not exactly, Jesus died for our sins because he was the lamb of god, a sacrifice for our sins, in the old testament pre-Jesus you had to sacrifice a lamb in order to repent your sins, this had to be done on a yearly basis.

I have grown up in a christian household so I have learned alot from being a member of one.

Luncbox1
Isn't that nice? God forgives your adultery because you slaughtered an innocent lamb :?

It's a symbolic thing, and when you sacrificed a lamb its suppose to bare all your sins, and you are washed in the blood of the lamb, this yearly sacrifice was replaced and obsolete when Christ was crucified, because he took on everyones sins from that day on and given the name of the lamb of god.
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123625

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#16 123625
Member since 2006 • 9035 Posts
Its my understanding they were sent to sheol, but the Old testament or the new doesn't give a definite definition of where they went.
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Shad0ki11

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#17 Shad0ki11
Member since 2006 • 12576 Posts
No, before Jesus everyone went to Denny's.
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chrisrooR

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#18 chrisrooR
Member since 2007 • 9027 Posts

Righto.

Your statement is wrong. They did not have to be perfect, rather, they had to try to follow the ten commandments, and if they broke one of them, for example, adultery, they would then have sin. The way they got rid of the sin was to sacrifice a unblemished lamb. This is why when Jesus died, he was referred to as the lamb of God, which takes the sin away from the world. So when Jesus died, he died for sins. Past. Present. Future. The sins of the past were swept away, and those of the present, and of the future. This way, they did not go to hell.

Any other religious Questions?

Moppy64
could it possibly be because we were simply running out of lambs?
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GabuEx

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#19 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

No, before Jesus everyone went to Denny's. Shad0ki11

So, the answer is yes, then.

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pseudodog07

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#20 pseudodog07
Member since 2008 • 1106 Posts
[QUOTE="chrisrooR"][QUOTE="Moppy64"]

Righto.

Your statement is wrong. They did not have to be perfect, rather, they had to try to follow the ten commandments, and if they broke one of them, for example, adultery, they would then have sin. The way they got rid of the sin was to sacrifice a unblemished lamb. This is why when Jesus died, he was referred to as the lamb of God, which takes the sin away from the world. So when Jesus died, he died for sins. Past. Present. Future. The sins of the past were swept away, and those of the present, and of the future. This way, they did not go to hell.

Any other religious Questions?

could it possibly be because we were simply running out of lambs?

That's funny to be worried about a lamb when humans have been sacrificied in some cultures.
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pseudodog07

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#21 pseudodog07
Member since 2008 • 1106 Posts
Not to mention all the cows, lambs etc. we eat.
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pseudodog07

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#22 pseudodog07
Member since 2008 • 1106 Posts
You repented for your sins...like sacrificing animals.senses_fail_06
Are you vegetarian? Some cultures still sacrifice animals or part of animals. It's really not so out of the norm if you think about it.
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esbastica

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#23 esbastica
Member since 2008 • 1665 Posts
haven't u ever heard that god demands u just as equivalent as ur ability? with that logic animals would go to hell aswell,btw we all know that no one goes anywhere lol
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Toriko42

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#24 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts
Yeah that's why hell is where the party is, those Romans were party gods.
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Bloodbath_87

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#25 Bloodbath_87
Member since 2008 • 7586 Posts
Not to mention all the cows, lambs etc. we eat.pseudodog07
I don't eat any of that.
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pseudodog07

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#26 pseudodog07
Member since 2008 • 1106 Posts
[QUOTE="pseudodog07"]Not to mention all the cows, lambs etc. we eat.Bloodbath_87
I don't eat any of that.

Well, good for you. There's nothing wrong with being vegetarian.
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DigitalExile

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#27 DigitalExile
Member since 2008 • 16046 Posts

[QUOTE="Bloodbath_87"][QUOTE="pseudodog07"]Not to mention all the cows, lambs etc. we eat.pseudodog07
I don't eat any of that.

Well, good for you. There's nothing wrong with being vegetarian.

Depends who you ask.

Also, doesn't everyone go to purgatory to await judgement day? I think that's according to Catholicism.

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Crypto138

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#28 Crypto138
Member since 2005 • 1672 Posts

Righto.

Your statement is wrong. They did not have to be perfect, rather, they had to try to follow the ten commandments, and if they broke one of them, for example, adultery, they would then have sin. The way they got rid of the sin was to sacrifice a unblemished lamb. This is why when Jesus died, he was referred to as the lamb of God, which takes the sin away from the world. So when Jesus died, he died for sins. Past. Present. Future. The sins of the past were swept away, and those of the present, and of the future. This way, they did not go to hell.

Any other religious Questions?

Moppy64
So all the people who died before Jesus who were in Hell somehow got auto-saved, and sent to Heaven, even though they didn't believe in Jesus? Hardly seems fair that they get a free ticket into Heaven, while everyone else has to actually earn it (by suspending colossal disbelief their entire lives).
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clembo1990

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#29 clembo1990
Member since 2005 • 9976 Posts
Sounds like pre-Jesus people got a sour deal.:?Cwagmire21
And pre-Joeseph Smith ;)
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redmen12

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#30 redmen12
Member since 2005 • 137 Posts

What I beleive is that all the people; jews and gentiles; who were not perfect or sacrificed animals correctly went to purgatory. While in purgatory, Jesus was born and they had the choice to beleive him or not.

Thats what I beleive anyway.

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btaylor2404

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#31 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts
That's one of the many problems I have with the Bible. It says you must confess with your mouth that Jesus is your savior.
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Thiago26792

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#32 Thiago26792
Member since 2007 • 11059 Posts
No, they have the same destiny as people now, just that thy didn't know in their time.
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TSNAKE617

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#33 TSNAKE617
Member since 2008 • 5494 Posts
No, they went to Tartarus.foxhound_fox

I wonder who we could meet during the Dark Hour. :shock:
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kemar7856

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#34 kemar7856
Member since 2004 • 11783 Posts
did'nt the sacrifice lambs to god
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TSNAKE617

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#35 TSNAKE617
Member since 2008 • 5494 Posts
[QUOTE="Moppy64"]

Righto.

Your statement is wrong. They did not have to be perfect, rather, they had to try to follow the ten commandments, and if they broke one of them, for example, adultery, they would then have sin. The way they got rid of the sin was to sacrifice a unblemished lamb. This is why when Jesus died, he was referred to as the lamb of God, which takes the sin away from the world. So when Jesus died, he died for sins. Past. Present. Future. The sins of the past were swept away, and those of the present, and of the future. This way, they did not go to hell.

Any other religious Questions?

Crypto138
So all the people who died before Jesus who were in Hell somehow got auto-saved, and sent to Heaven, even though they didn't believe in Jesus? Hardly seems fair that they get a free ticket into Heaven, while everyone else has to actually earn it (by suspending colossal disbelief their entire lives).


But they had to spend time in Hell, that wouldn't be fun.
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VMAN-Vercetti

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#36 VMAN-Vercetti
Member since 2005 • 1836 Posts
It's highly doubtable as people from the BC period were a lot more faithful than us AD period people, yet they supposedly going to hell while we have a chance to go to heaven doesn't sound quite right.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#37 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

Righto.

Your statement is wrong. They did not have to be perfect, rather, they had to try to follow the ten commandments, and if they broke one of them, for example, adultery, they would then have sin. The way they got rid of the sin was to sacrifice a unblemished lamb. This is why when Jesus died, he was referred to as the lamb of God, which takes the sin away from the world. So when Jesus died, he died for sins. Past. Present. Future. The sins of the past were swept away, and those of the present, and of the future. This way, they did not go to hell.

Any other religious Questions?

Moppy64

Notice that things such as child molestation/abuse, rape etc etc.. Are not with in the ten commandments.. But you can't say any bad things about your PARENTS! Boy the people of the past really wee on top of their values.

Furthermore the ten commandments is relatively new piece of law.. Man existed far far FAR earlier than that.. Now whether you believe in a young earth or not, I could care less.. there is evidence that humans lived far earlier than 10k years..

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WtFDragon

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#38 WtFDragon
Member since 2004 • 4176 Posts

Short answer: No.

Elaboration I: under the Old Covenant, observance of the law and dutiful sacrifices for sins committed were deemed salvific by God, who keeps His promises. Righteous Jews who lived according to the covenant would not have been condemned to Hell.

Elaboration II: one notes that in both the Old and New Testaments, there exist passages which confirm that at least some people did enter the Heavenly kingdom prior to the birth (and, more importantly, death and resurrection) of Jesus. Elijah is the most obvious example, for having been taken up prior to his physical death, but Moses is another example, and then of one who died bodily before entering into the heavenly Kingdom.

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crazychris

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#39 crazychris
Member since 2003 • 1420 Posts
people got tired of killing perfectly good lambs so they made a elaborate story about a man who died for our sins so they didnt have to waste any more lambs. religion is an opiate for the masses.
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WtFDragon

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#40 WtFDragon
Member since 2004 • 4176 Posts

religion is an opiate for the masses.crazychris

Most of what Marx wrote has been discredited by the tests of implementation and of history.

In time, this nugget of his "wisdom" will likewise pass away.

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#41 VMAN-Vercetti
Member since 2005 • 1836 Posts

[QUOTE="crazychris"]religion is an opiate for the masses.WtFDragon

Most of what Marx wrote has been discredited by the tests of implementation and of history.

In time, this nugget of his "wisdom" will likewise pass away.

Probably the only thing I disagree in the Manifesto: lack of religion.
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crazychris

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#42 crazychris
Member since 2003 • 1420 Posts

[QUOTE="crazychris"]religion is an opiate for the masses.WtFDragon

Most of what Marx wrote has been discredited by the tests of implementation and of history.

In time, this nugget of his "wisdom" will likewise pass away.

so christianity doesnt give hope to child rapist and killers. some people honestly believe they will go to a better place after they dont things like that. if all a child rapist has to do is pray to jesus to get into heaven then thats a god i dont want to believe in. "oops i killed my family with a shotgun blast to the head! its ok though becuase jesus forgives me!"

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WtFDragon

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#43 WtFDragon
Member since 2004 • 4176 Posts

so christianity doesnt give hope to child rapist and killers.crazychris

That depends, I suppose, on exactly what you mean by "give hope."

Does it give hope in the sense that it tells even these human beings, who by choice or accident of mental illness have sunk to the depths of depravity, that there is still in them an inate and irrevocable dignity as a human being? Yes, it does that.

Does it give them hope in the sense that it says to even these human beings, low though they have sunk, that there is still some means to step up out of the muck and mire of their sinful state, in the next life if not in this one? Yes, it does that.

But how does it offer that hope? This is not a band-aid we're talking about, but the full and painful process of healing. This is not the laughing exultation of those who profess their pre-emptive salvation, but the humble plea of the "good thief" from his cross: ""Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong. Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

One cannot be an unrepentant murderer or rapist and expect the reward of Heaven.

some people honestly believe they will go to a better place after they dont things like that.crazychris

If they believe that their eternal fate will be that of salvation when in fact they carry these stains of sin in them, unrepented for, then it is they -- not religion -- which are in error.

if all a child rapist has to do is pray to jesus to get into heaven then thats a god i dont want to believe in. "oops i killed my family with a shotgun blast to the head! its ok though becuase jesus forgives me!"crazychris

Fortunately, it is not quite that simple. Believing in Jesus doesn't make one's prior sins "ok," and if one earnestly believes otherwise, one might find that one's newfound faith does not do as much for one's prospects in the hereafter as one might have hoped.

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cpo335

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#44 cpo335
Member since 2002 • 5463 Posts
[QUOTE="WtFDragon"]

[QUOTE="crazychris"]religion is an opiate for the masses.crazychris

Most of what Marx wrote has been discredited by the tests of implementation and of history.

In time, this nugget of his "wisdom" will likewise pass away.

so christianity doesnt give hope to child rapist and killers. some people honestly believe they will go to a better place after they dont things like that. if all a child rapist has to do is pray to jesus to get into heaven then thats a god i dont want to believe in. "oops i killed my family with a shotgun blast to the head! its ok though becuase jesus forgives me!"

You are TOTALLY blowing this WAY out of context. Say that guy, who killed his entire family, is truely (and I mean is REALLY is sorry) sorry and regretful, and he goes into confession and repents, he will be let into the Kingdom of God. If that same man is not TRUELY sorry, but confesses and repents, he will go to Hell, regardless of what he did when he was alive.
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sentenced83

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#46 sentenced83
Member since 2005 • 1529 Posts
its how you treated others ,you dont need a god to know that its wrong to steal or kill ...etc , how old are you ?
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Elraptor

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#47 Elraptor
Member since 2004 • 30966 Posts

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]No, before Jesus everyone went to Denny's. GabuEx

So, the answer is yes, then.

Hey now, Denny's does a great pancake platter.
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chessmaster1989

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#48 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
Sounds about right :P.
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#49 mastersword007
Member since 2005 • 6630 Posts
[QUOTE="crazychris"][QUOTE="WtFDragon"]

Most of what Marx wrote has been discredited by the tests of implementation and of history.

In time, this nugget of his "wisdom" will likewise pass away.

cpo335

so christianity doesnt give hope to child rapist and killers. some people honestly believe they will go to a better place after they dont things like that. if all a child rapist has to do is pray to jesus to get into heaven then thats a god i dont want to believe in. "oops i killed my family with a shotgun blast to the head! its ok though becuase jesus forgives me!"

You are TOTALLY blowing this WAY out of context. Say that guy, who killed his entire family, is truely (and I mean is REALLY is sorry) sorry and regretful, and he goes into confession and repents, he will be let into the Kingdom of God. If that same man is not TRUELY sorry, but confesses and repents, he will go to Hell, regardless of what he did when he was alive.



Just one question, before I leave. This may sound a bit cheesy/corny, but it's the only way to see another side of this:
Let's say that's the way it works. Let us say a man brutally rapes and kills the daughter of a kind and innocent family, but feels TRULY sorry and goes to heaven.
What about the daughter of which the life was forcibly taken after humiliation? What about the parents that lost a part of their life? Can you immagine what kind of pain they will feel for the rest of their life? No matter how much they'll try, they will never TRULY get over it.
The girls life will be ended in a horrible way and she will never ever see her parents (and vice versa) or daylight again , yet the killer will still be able to go to heaven in the end.

After ruining the life of an innocent, after ruining the life of a family, is feeling TRULY sorry, confessing and repenting, really enough to go to heaven?
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WtFDragon

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#50 WtFDragon
Member since 2004 • 4176 Posts

Just one question, before I leave. This may sound a bit cheesy/corny, but it's the only way to see another side of this:
Let's say that's the way it works. Let us say a man brutally rapes and kills the daughter of a kind and innocent family, but feels TRULY sorry and goes to heaven.
What about the daughter of which the life was forcibly taken after humiliation? What about the parents that lost a part of their life? Can you immagine what kind of pain they will feel for the rest of their life? No matter how much they'll try, they will never TRULY get over it.
The girls life will be ended in a horrible way and she will never ever see her parents (and vice versa) or daylight again , yet the killer will still be able to go to heaven in the end.

After ruining the life of an innocent, after ruining the life of a family, is feeling TRULY sorry, confessing and repenting, really enough to go to heaven?mastersword007

The short answer is: yes.

That's a hard thing to hear for some, which I think is closely tied to a lack of ability in some people to truly understand (let alone offer) forgiveness. But there it is -- genuine repentence is salvific.

Here's something to chew on, though: two of my sisters-in-law were rather brutally raped in their youth. And it would be fair to say that the experience has certainly taken its toll on them, spiritually and psychologically, elements of which linger to this day.

But will their lives end "in a horrible way," as you posit? No, not at all -- for whatever they've been through, they are today very positive people who try and live life in an optimistic, full way. Far from becoming basket cases, they've formed stable relationships again, pursued their interests and recreation with verve and vigor, and (in one case) have even brought new life into the world (by which I mean "have had kids"). And their family has remained warm and loving, close-knit and supportive -- indeed, one could argue that the earlier traumas have served to strenghten the resolve of the family (which, I should note, has always drunk deeply from the wellspring of the Catholic faith).

That doesn't excuse the horror of the rape that they suffered, of course. But I think it serves to illustrate something about your contrived attempt at an example -- you're overstating the case.

And before you think I'm straw-manning, talking about rape in which the victims have survived, let me hasten to add that in the various families to which I am related, I've seen people come through many things -- the suicide of a spouse, the murder of a child, rape, depression, and all the bloody rest of it. The story of my extended family is not suitable for family television by any means. And yet, those of us who have survived have done so in a way that has ultimately been positive and life-affirming, which has demonstrated that out of even the worst trauma good can be brought forth.

And in each case, where we've been wronged by others, we have found the resolve to offer forgiveness. Because at the end of the day, those who have wronged us have still been as human as we are, as weak and flawed as we are...and yet every bit as much someone's son or daughter as we ourselves are. And because of that, they still possess an inate dignity, and a right to be treated justly, despite whatever depravity they may have displayed in the past.

That's just common sense, really...and it's a common sense that Christianity acknowledges. No matter what we have done, we can be forgiven...and our forgiveness in Christ begins with our penitence.

Of course, there are still the lingering temporal effects of our sinfulness. The concept of salvation is not actually related to this directly, since it is primarily concerned with the eternal aspects of our fate, and the eternal ramifications of our sinful actions. Questions like yours, I think, lend credence to the Catholic notion of Purgatory...the idea that as a part of the process of our salvation, we atone for the temporal effects of our sinfulness. And if one meditates on the concept of justice, not as a human concept but as a distinct, timeless principle, I think this makes the most sense.

Every human -- even the most wretchedly sinful -- must be saveABLE, or else it is meaningless to believe in the promise of salvation that Christ brought; if the potential does not exist for Christ to save everyone, then Christ is not God, and Christ can save no one.