I know most religions attempt to explain death and the after life.. Im wondering what many religions think of before your born what exactly are you at this stage? Or do you only come into existence when you are actually born/conceived? I know a atheist would say you are the same as if you died but im wondering exactly what a christian would say (or if your another religion I would also like to hear that opinion).
I guess you're a 'plan'. That's why nobody's allowed an abortion, because God has a plan for each person and if you screw it up it's like your kid brother flushing the essential pieces of lego to finish building your pirate ship. As for what physical state you're in, some people say nothingness, some people say a baby angel come to find a family on earth, some people say an unfertilized egg. It all really depends on who you talk to, I guess, and their level of weirdness in their religion.
I guess you're a 'plan'. That's why nobody's allowed an abortion, because God has a plan for each person and if you screw it up it's like your kid brother flushing the essential pieces of lego to finish building your pirate ship.XilePrincess
No. I view abortion as wrong because it basically murder. But I do think that in the case of rape or it's one or the other then it's fine.
maybe it depends on how we look at eternity, does it encompass all time, or just a forever lasting forward progression, it it's all time then I guess you were where you'll be after you die as before you were born anyhow, Wikipedia has an article on "pre-existence" worth checking out, might answer some questions and send you on a new path of inquiry.
[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"] No. I view abortion as wrong because it basically murder. But I do think that in the case of rape or it's one or the other then it's fine. People picketing abortion clinics often cite god as the reason you shouldn't have an abortion, is all I was saying with that comment. But really, it's only murder if you believe either that an entity wants that fetus to be born or if you consider a bundle of cells that could not survive outside the body to be a human life and not simply a lump growing on the uterine wall. It isn't viewed as murder in first-world, civilized countries. It's not 'basically murder' in the same way shooting somebody with a nerf gun isn't assault with a deadly weapon. Though I find it amusing that it's murder if you kill an innocent baby (to use the words of pro lifers) that was accidentally conceived by consensual sex, but if it was an innocent baby conceived by RAPE, go ahead and murder it. Either way, simplest way to avoid being a self-titled murderer is not to have an abortion if you don't want one, or don't put anyone else in a position to need one.
I know most religions attempt to explain death and the after life.. Im wondering what many religions think of before your born what exactly are you at this stage? Or do you only come into existence when you are actually born/conceived? I know a atheist would say you are the same as if you died but im wondering exactly what a christian would say (or if your another religion I would also like to hear that opinion).fl4tlined
Some religions believe in reincarnation, in which case you were another person/animal before your current existance, for others the soul is created at conception.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Only within the mind of God do you exist before your conception.tenaka2
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Only within the mind of God do you exist before your conception.mindstorm
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living. So God knows if each person is going to be bad or not and makes them take their chances? :s
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Only within the mind of God do you exist before your conception.mindstorm
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.
But God knows all, he new mass murderes would become mass murderers because that is how he concieved them, there is no element of choice as god would already know the outcome.
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
tenaka2
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.
But God knows all, he new mass murderes would become mass murderers because that is how he concieved them, there is no element of choice as god would already know the outcome.
Exactly. He would be a very sadistic god if he knew what was going to happen like a game. Thankfully God ain't like that. At least the one I believe in.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Only within the mind of God do you exist before your conception.mindstorm
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.I never understood the whole Abrahamic God theory. What's the point in making them? So they can eventually die and be with them for eternity? I wonder if he could just do that without placing them 50+ years in this world. If he knows everything then he knows all the that murders are to be commited, but chooses not do anything about it. "It's all in his plan" Of what?
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
tenaka2
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.
But God knows all, he new mass murderes would become mass murderers because that is how he concieved them, there is no element of choice as god would already know the outcome.
Knowing their future actions are not the same thing as causing a person to make his own choices.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"] Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.mindstorm
But God knows all, he new mass murderes would become mass murderers because that is how he concieved them, there is no element of choice as god would already know the outcome.
Knowing their future actions are not the same thing as causing a person to make his own choices.But he knew the outcome, hence nothing could be changed. The person was going to commit the murders anywase. god couldn't interfere, because he knew that was going to happen. He knows all, right?
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]Only within the mind of God do you exist before your conception.mindstorm
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.
What about the ~20% of pregnancies that end in miscarriage? What is the point of having a soul if you don't live long enough to even be born?
But God knows all, he new mass murderes would become mass murderers because that is how he concieved them, there is no element of choice as god would already know the outcome.
zenogandia
Knowing their future actions are not the same thing as causing a person to make his own choices.But he knew the outcome, hence nothing could be changed. The person was going to commit the murders anywase. god couldn't interfere, because he knew that was going to happen. He knows all, right? If God in his foreknowledge did not allow people would would eventually do evil to be born then I myself would not be alive. None of us would. That stated, God has intervened through Jesus Christ partially and will intervene totally when he returns to restore all things. In that day there will be no murder, no pain, no tears, only a love for God and a love for one another.
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
Guybrush_3
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.
What about the ~20% of pregnancies that end in miscarriage? What is the point of having a soul if you don't live long enough to even be born?
This might be a somewhat corny response but heaven will have far more people in it than many Christians probably acknowledge. I'm not seeking to diminish the horrible pain that a family goes through with a miscarriage but I do seek to increase the hope that a suffering family might have.
So god imagined all the evil people before he made them a reality?
Guybrush_3
Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.
What about the ~20% of pregnancies that end in miscarriage? What is the point of having a soul if you don't live long enough to even be born?
Unbabtised babies used to go to limbo in catholic doctrine (it was also not allowed to bury unbabtised babies on holy ground in Ireland until recently).
I am not sure what happens to them now as the Catholic chuch decided to get rid of limbo (the plane of existance not the dance)
[QUOTE="hippiesanta"]soon... atheist will self proclaim "their points are better" in this threadhippiesanta
Do you really have to be so militant?
nope,.... I'm not religious myself, ..... only that some dramaqueen atheist here entertain me with their bizzare and flamboyant perspective.
Christians, and a person who follows any religion, have equally bizarre and flamboyant perspectives.
Bottom line: nobody can prove anything one way or another. Believe whatever you want to believe; it is your belief and therefore nobody can rob you of it.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"] Yes, and he provides a redemption out of that evil before conception as well. "Before the foundations of the world" as he puts it. This is not too much different than a parent knowing the type of world that they are bringing their child into. The presence of evil does not mean life is not worth living.tenaka2
What about the ~20% of pregnancies that end in miscarriage? What is the point of having a soul if you don't live long enough to even be born?
Unbabtised babies used to go to limbo in catholic doctrine (it was also not allowed to bury unbabtised babies on holy ground in Ireland until recently).
I am not sure what happens to them now as the Catholic chuch decided to get rid of limbo (the plane of existance not the dance)
Limbo was never officially Catholic Doctrine, it was a theological concept used by theologians, but it was never an article of faith. Basically the Church's position is that limbo is an acceptable theological theory, but it is not part of the deposit of faith (Heaven, Hell and Purgatory are however). Church teaching only states that when unbaptised children or babies die, they are "entrusted to the mercy of God".
Also Limbo is not as "bad" as people tend to think. Limbo, is basically a place of "perfect natural happiness" so it would be better than earth, but not as good as Heaven.
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