So you hate corporations huh? Then free up the market

a lot of these are proposed to "bring jobs" but the only real way to do that is to have a completely free market in which the consumer has all the power. Which we dont currently have at all. Some say a free market means corporate control, but why is it the more we regulate the more power they get? I believe the government should stay out of business. Afraid for the environment? Boycott them, capitalism has ALWAYS pushed for innovation and that would NOT stop now.

THIS VIDEO IS A DECENT SHORT EXPLANATION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6ACg745CtI

The kid is a bit goofy, but he makes some strong points.

Corporate welfare. One particular reason this was "bought" by the american people is that they thought it would help businessess stay afloat... well it does but it also removes the possibility of crappy companies going under

the U.S. federal government spent $92 billion on corporate welfare during fiscal year 2006. Recipients included Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, and General Electric (GE is one of the most profitable companies in the world, do they really NEED this??)

Limited Liability: Speaks for its self.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability

Lobbying: regulations give incentive to lobby for further regulation that usually go in corporate favor. which a lot of times keep out competition. theyve made it SO hard for the little guy to compete. A lot of you hate Wal-mart and how they close down mom and pop shops. Well did you ever stop and think that if you vote to make it easier for companies to fall apart maybe this wouldnt happen? A lot of our tax dollars goes STRAIGHT to corporations, even a lot of our sales tax does.

so let me break this down for you: if we have a free market (rather than the mixed economy that we have now) companies like walmart REALLY REALLY need to put a huge focus on making YOU happy in EVERYWAY, otherwise theres NOBODY to save them!

Competition drives prices down, especially when the corporations know they are fighting for their survival with nobody to help them. In a free market, starting your own business is easier.

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

duxup

wow....there's a GS MOD who understands how business and economics work....:o....i'm impressed....:wink:

A completely free market is bad.

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

duxup

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

A completely free market is bad.

The_Ish

oh yeah, you're right my bad

[QUOTE="duxup"]

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

H8sMikeMoore

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

Monopolies only exist with government help? I suggest you do some book learn'n.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"]

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

duxup

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

Monopolies only exist with government help? I suggest you do some book learn'n.

Since you dont give any reason to proving your statement I wont either (I actually I will)

Yes, monopolies only exist with government help.

Well ill prove my point by asking you a question, how exactly does competition encourage monopolies? the short answer: it dosent ever.

as far as economic books, suggest me something that dosent have anything to do with Noam Chomsky and ill give it a chance. Although i cant imagine someone saying competition encourages a monopoly, because its just not the way things work

[QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"]

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

H8sMikeMoore

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

Monopolies only exist with government help? I suggest you do some book learn'n.

Since you dont give any reason to proving your statement I wont either (I actually I will)

Yes, monopolies only exist with government help.

Well ill prove my point by asking you a question, how exactly does competition encourage monopolies? the short answer: it dosent ever.

as far as economic books, suggest me something that dosent have anything to do with Noam Chomsky and ill give it a chance. Although i cant imagine someone saying competition encourages a monopoly, because its just not the way things work

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

H8sMikeMoore

take a look at the late 19th century.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"]

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

carrot-cake

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

Monopolies only exist with government help? I suggest you do some book learn'n.

Since you dont give any reason to proving your statement I wont either (I actually I will)

Yes, monopolies only exist with government help.

Well ill prove my point by asking you a question, how exactly does competition encourage monopolies? the short answer: it dosent ever.

as far as economic books, suggest me something that dosent have anything to do with Noam Chomsky and ill give it a chance. Although i cant imagine someone saying competition encourages a monopoly, because its just not the way things work

yeah, but in a free market assuming the country didnt have laws against monopolies how exactly would a corporation not avoid a boycott?

Now, in a free market we would have more business. In America, its very hard to start a business nowadays with the SOCIALIZATION we have. More business = less chance for a monopoly. There would simply be too much to buy

Microsoft is a monopoly, and you dont exactly see our government do anything now do you? If it were easier to compete with Microsoft then we might be running something else right now.

[QUOTE="carrot-cake"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"]

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

H8sMikeMoore

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

Monopolies only exist with government help? I suggest you do some book learn'n.

Since you dont give any reason to proving your statement I wont either (I actually I will)

Yes, monopolies only exist with government help.

Well ill prove my point by asking you a question, how exactly does competition encourage monopolies? the short answer: it dosent ever.

as far as economic books, suggest me something that dosent have anything to do with Noam Chomsky and ill give it a chance. Although i cant imagine someone saying competition encourages a monopoly, because its just not the way things work

yeah, but in a free market assuming the country didnt have laws against monopolies how exactly would a corporation not avoid a boycott?

Now, in a free market we would have more business. In America, its very hard to start a business nowadays with the SOCIALIZATION we have. More business = less chance for a monopoly. There would simply be too much to buy

Microsoft is a monopoly, and you dont exactly see our government do anything now do you? If it were easier to compete with Microsoft then we might be running something else right now.

yeah, but in a free market assuming the country didnt have laws against monopolies how exactly would a corporation not avoid a boycott?

H8sMikeMoore

if they monopolize a needed product, naturally. they wouldn't get a negative reaction (or at least not a noticeable one) unless they severely pissed people off. and I mean if they did it suddenly. if done gradually, people will accept choices being taken away.

At least Michael Moore grasps the basic fundamentals of economics.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="carrot-cake"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="duxup"]

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

carrot-cake

not true in the slightest

monopolies only exist with government help. Plus our governmetn has laws against these things. When I say completely free I mean no socialization. Keep that in mind

Competition BRINGS lower prices, please read any economic book available.

Monopolies only exist with government help? I suggest you do some book learn'n.

Since you dont give any reason to proving your statement I wont either (I actually I will)

Yes, monopolies only exist with government help.

Well ill prove my point by asking you a question, how exactly does competition encourage monopolies? the short answer: it dosent ever.

as far as economic books, suggest me something that dosent have anything to do with Noam Chomsky and ill give it a chance. Although i cant imagine someone saying competition encourages a monopoly, because its just not the way things work

yeah, but in a free market assuming the country didnt have laws against monopolies how exactly would a corporation not avoid a boycott?

Now, in a free market we would have more business. In America, its very hard to start a business nowadays with the SOCIALIZATION we have. More business = less chance for a monopoly. There would simply be too much to buy

Microsoft is a monopoly, and you dont exactly see our government do anything now do you? If it were easier to compete with Microsoft then we might be running something else right now.

people are lazy? how does that prove people wont buy things when all they have to do is NOT buy from there. Remember in this scenerio theres a ton of business and a lot of options. A Much more healthy economy

Okay, well instead of bogging this thread down, look up "how to start a business" on google. Take a look at some of the steps. Its ridiculous. You should be able to sell whatever you have anyway you want.

I disagree, YOU may like Windows, hell even I do. But more options = more innovation. For example. IE has always sucked right? thats because its been the only browser. Now that firefox is on the scene, you finally see an updated in IE. Compeition drives innovation. The only difference is, in this scenerio instead of having 3 or 4 major browsers we would have 20 or 30. Imagine the innovation THEN. Everyone would have there own little browser that catered to THERE need. While you had the one that YOU like.

But instead, in order to turn your little project into a business you have to do endless paper work and pay out the ass.

"a completely free market"

No regulations? :roll: That just results in monopolies, less competition, and higher prices.

duxup

At least Michael Moore grasps the basic fundamentals of economics.

bradleybhoy

Oh he did now? Okay first of all. Prove to me where I am not grasping economics. because it seems that im the only one here who understands how capitalism even works

Michael Moore dosent even understand socialism, let alone capitalism. And to be honest I bet you dont either. So quit with the flames, and how about you actually back up what you say? Can you even do that?

The corporations sit in their corporation buildings being all....Corporationy! Its madness! People who complain about the corporations are annoying beyond belief.specialedpal

You just don't understand why they complain. They don't do complain just for the hell of it or to "fight the power", there are legitimate reasons.

[QUOTE="specialedpal"]The corporations sit in their corporation buildings being all....Corporationy! Its madness! People who complain about the corporations are annoying beyond belief.bradleybhoy

You just don't understand why they complain. They don't do complain just for the hell of it or to "fight the power", there are legitimate reasons.

[QUOTE="specialedpal"]The corporations sit in their corporation buildings being all....Corporationy! Its madness! People who complain about the corporations are annoying beyond belief.bradleybhoy

You just don't understand why they complain. They don't do complain just for the hell of it or to "fight the power", there are legitimate reasons.

Of course they complain for legitimate reasons, but if they understood economics more maybe they would find better solutions instead of helping the beast ;)

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]

At least Michael Moore grasps the basic fundamentals of economics.

H8sMikeMoore

Oh he did now? Okay first of all. Prove to me where I am not grasping economics. because it seems that im the only one here who understands how capitalism evern works

Michael Moore dosent even understand socialism, let alone capitalism. And to be honest I bet you dont either. So quit with the flames, and how about you actually back up what you say? Can you even do that?

Um, the fact that you're saying business monopolies and corporations are the result of goverment intervention... when in fact if there were less government regulation small businesses wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of competing and eventually only an extremely small number of corporations would run the market and they would exploit the crap out of workers and consumers.

So government regulation of the economy is a good thing, and no we don't need less of it, especially if small businesses are to survive.

But I see what type of regulation you are referring to in the first post and I can see that it is a curious form of government intervention in the economy. :lol:

[QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]

[QUOTE="specialedpal"]The corporations sit in their corporation buildings being all....Corporationy! Its madness! People who complain about the corporations are annoying beyond belief.specialedpal

You just don't understand why they complain. They don't do complain just for the hell of it or to "fight the power", there are legitimate reasons.

If that applies to me, then it applies to you and just about everyone else here. :|

[QUOTE="specialedpal"][QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]

[QUOTE="specialedpal"]The corporations sit in their corporation buildings being all....Corporationy! Its madness! People who complain about the corporations are annoying beyond belief.bradleybhoy

You just don't understand why they complain. They don't do complain just for the hell of it or to "fight the power", there are legitimate reasons.

If that applies to me, then it applies to you and just about everyone else here. :|

Of course they complain for legitimate reasons, but if they understood economics more maybe they would find better solutions instead of helping the beast ;)

H8sMikeMoore

boycotting is only effective if you have a significant amount of people doing so. and, like stated before, it isn't effective if the company controls a necessity.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="bradleybhoy"]

At least Michael Moore grasps the basic fundamentals of economics.

bradleybhoy

Oh he did now? Okay first of all. Prove to me where I am not grasping economics. because it seems that im the only one here who understands how capitalism evern works

Michael Moore dosent even understand socialism, let alone capitalism. And to be honest I bet you dont either. So quit with the flames, and how about you actually back up what you say? Can you even do that?

Um, the fact that you're saying business monopolies and corporations are the result of goverment intervention... when in fact if there were less government regulation small businesses wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of competing and eventually only an extremely small number of corporations would run the market and they would exploit the crap out of workers and consumers.

So government regulation of the economy is a good thing, and no we don't need less of it, especially if small businesses are to survive.

okay then. I want you to answer this, DO NOT SPIN IT

If you are right then why have small businesses declined even though corporate power is increased?

Do you know how to start your own business?

This thread is priceless. When you say government intervention allows monopolies to exist, and everyone says the opposite, how can you assume you're right? :lol:

This thread is priceless. When you say government intervention allows monopolies to exist, and everyone says the opposite, how can you assume you're right? :lol: Vyse_The_Daring

Thats the point of my thread. I know theres a lot of misinformed socialists here. Do you think just because someone else says something they have to be right?

The fact that, EVERY person so far has spun what ive said, and then ran out of here shows that im clearly right. I mean theyre trying to tell you competition dosent make things better. They assume that corporations would somehow be able to buy everything without giving any kind of example of how they can manage that

Also, Ive already given clear examples of why im right, that happened. So far im knocking everyone out

If you are right then why have small businesses declined even though corporate power is increased?

Do you know how to start your own business?H8sMikeMoore

I edited my post. ;)

Since you dont give any reason to proving your statement I wont either (I actually I will)

Yes, monopolies only exist with government help.

Well ill prove my point by asking you a question, how exactly does competition encourage monopolies? the short answer: it dosent ever.

as far as economic books, suggest me something that dosent have anything to do with Noam Chomsky and ill give it a chance. Although i cant imagine someone saying competition encourages a monopoly, because its just not the way things work

H8sMikeMoore

They assume that corporations would somehow be able to buy everything without giving any kind of example of how they can manage that

H8sMikeMoore

Standard Oil?

The TC is right. Laisseiz faire capitalism in it's purest form does not create monopolies, it makes sure monopolies can't exist. The only way for a single company to truly control the markets is through government interventionism. The corporate control and monopolization is the result of mixed economies, not free markets.Rhazakna

they dont know what Laisseiz faire capitalism means. They dont even understand our own economy

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]This thread is priceless. When you say government intervention allows monopolies to exist, and everyone says the opposite, how can you assume you're right? :lol: H8sMikeMoore

Thats the point of my thread. I know theres a lot of misinformed socialists here. Do you think just because someone else says something they have to be right?

The fact that, EVERY person so far has spun what ive said, and then ran out of here shows that im clearly right. I mean theyre trying to tell you competition dosent make things better. They assume that corporations would somehow be able to buy everything without giving any kind of example of how they can manage that

Also, Ive already given clear examples of why im right, that happened. So far im knocking everyone out

Just went back and re-read some of your points. Your Microsoft example is a perfect example of government intervention preventing a total monopoly. The US government breaks up monopolies, and that was the way MS was headed. So what did they do? Purchased $150+ million in non-voting shares in Apple to keep the company alive!

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

Since you dont give any reason to proving your statement I wont either (I actually I will)

Yes, monopolies only exist with government help.

Well ill prove my point by asking you a question, how exactly does competition encourage monopolies? the short answer: it dosent ever.

as far as economic books, suggest me something that dosent have anything to do with Noam Chomsky and ill give it a chance. Although i cant imagine someone saying competition encourages a monopoly, because its just not the way things work

DeeJayInphinity

okay, first did they even do anything? no they decision got over turned

second, without CORPORATE WELFARE. they wouldnt be getting FREE money to do things like that

with a freer economy, guess what we would have MORE ALTERNATIVES besides linux and mac. FREE ECONOMY WOULD BRING MICROSOFT DOWN,

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]The TC is right. Laisseiz faire capitalism in it's purest form does not create monopolies, it makes sure monopolies can't exist. The only way for a single company to truly control the markets is through government interventionism. The corporate control and monopolization is the result of mixed economies, not free markets.H8sMikeMoore

they dont know what Laisseiz faire capitalism means. They dont even understand our own economy

I reccomend everyone read some Ludwig von Mises before spouting off their opinions about free markets.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]This thread is priceless. When you say government intervention allows monopolies to exist, and everyone says the opposite, how can you assume you're right? :lol: Vyse_The_Daring

Thats the point of my thread. I know theres a lot of misinformed socialists here. Do you think just because someone else says something they have to be right?

The fact that, EVERY person so far has spun what ive said, and then ran out of here shows that im clearly right. I mean theyre trying to tell you competition dosent make things better. They assume that corporations would somehow be able to buy everything without giving any kind of example of how they can manage that

Also, Ive already given clear examples of why im right, that happened. So far im knocking everyone out

Just went back and re-read some of your points. You're not nearly as bright as you think. unfortunately. Your Microsoft example is a perfect example of government intervention preventing a total monopoly. The US government breaks up monopolies, and that was the way MS was headed. So what did they do? Purchased $150+ million in non-voting shares in Apple to keep the company alive!

microsoft is just as powerful as it was before hand, they retained their power and won the court case. So your argument failed unfortunately. as i said earlier about 100 times (nobody likes to pay attention to that) If there were more competition to MS they would have never gotten to the size they were at in the first place.

Sorry, but you dont know what you're talking about

okay, first did they even do anything? no they decision got over turned

second, without CORPORATE WELFARE. they wouldnt be getting FREE money to do things like that

with a freer economy, guess what we would have MORE ALTERNATIVES besides linux and mac. FREE ECONOMY WOULD BRING MICROSOFT DOWN,

H8sMikeMoore

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]This thread is priceless. When you say government intervention allows monopolies to exist, and everyone says the opposite, how can you assume you're right? :lol: Vyse_The_Daring

Thats the point of my thread. I know theres a lot of misinformed socialists here. Do you think just because someone else says something they have to be right?

The fact that, EVERY person so far has spun what ive said, and then ran out of here shows that im clearly right. I mean theyre trying to tell you competition dosent make things better. They assume that corporations would somehow be able to buy everything without giving any kind of example of how they can manage that

Also, Ive already given clear examples of why im right, that happened. So far im knocking everyone out

Just went back and re-read some of your points. Your Microsoft example is a perfect example of government intervention preventing a total monopoly. The US government breaks up monopolies, and that was the way MS was headed. So what did they do? Purchased $150+ million in non-voting shares in Apple to keep the company alive!

Microsoft NEVER would have become that big a company if we had unregulated markets. There's just no way.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]The TC is right. Laisseiz faire capitalism in it's purest form does not create monopolies, it makes sure monopolies can't exist. The only way for a single company to truly control the markets is through government interventionism. The corporate control and monopolization is the result of mixed economies, not free markets.Rhazakna

they dont know what Laisseiz faire capitalism means. They dont even understand our own economy

I reccomend everyone read some Ludwig von Mises before spouting off their opinions about free markets.

Indeed.

microsoft is just as powerful as it was before hand, they retained their power and won the court case. So your argument failed unfortunately. as i said earlier about 100 times (nobody likes to pay attention to that) If there were more competition to MS they would have never gotten to the size they were at in the first place.

Sorry, but you dont know what you're talking about

H8sMikeMoore

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

okay, first did they even do anything? no they decision got over turned

second, without CORPORATE WELFARE. they wouldnt be getting FREE money to do things like that

with a freer economy, guess what we would have MORE ALTERNATIVES besides linux and mac. FREE ECONOMY WOULD BRING MICROSOFT DOWN,

DeeJayInphinity

no we dont have a free market. Not like the kind im talking about. a free market implies that if iwant to sell something then I have the right to. but if i operate as a business I can be fined if im not doing it the way the government wants to.

We have two alternatives, neither are practical (IN MY OPINION) if we had a free economy like intended then guess what there would be so many alternatives that you couldnt possibly complain!

You just proved my point, Linux and Mac. WHY ARENT THERE MORE OPTIONS THAT ARE ABLE TO COMPETE WITH MICROSOFT? because its too hard to enter the business!

The "you lose thing" was cute. Do a little research on capitalism chum ;)

Microsoft NEVER would have become that big a company if we had unregulated markets. There's just no way.

Rhazakna

worked for Standard Oil.

microsoft is just as powerful as it was before hand, they retained their power and won the court case. So your argument failed unfortunately. as i said earlier about 100 times (nobody likes to pay attention to that) If there were more competition to MS they would have never gotten to the size they were at in the first place.

Sorry, but you dont know what you're talking about

H8sMikeMoore

Isn't the fact that it went to court proof that the government does intervene to prevent monopolies, and that the reason it was overturned is because the courts thought they didn't have too much control? I want to know what prevents Microsoft from buying up smaller companies and creating a total monopoly in the absence of government intervention.

Or explain why the EU investigated Google`s merger with DoubleClick to make sure it didn`t impede competition.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

microsoft is just as powerful as it was before hand, they retained their power and won the court case. So your argument failed unfortunately. as i said earlier about 100 times (nobody likes to pay attention to that) If there were more competition to MS they would have never gotten to the size they were at in the first place.

Sorry, but you dont know what you're talking about

DeeJayInphinity

We do not have free markets. The US has what's called a mixed economy.