The Dark Knight: Not as good as it could've been (spoilers inside)

TDK was a great movie. Let me get that out of the way. Casting, special effects, acting, story, character development, it all worked well to make a solid movie. However, there were a few things that held it back from being spectacular.

I'd say overall, TDK and Batman Begins were aimed to turn the batman series in a more believable, human direction. While there were aspects to the first movie that flirted with impossibility, it was in general a fairly believable movie. The characters had real emotions and passions which influenced and often times drove their actions. The action parts of the movie were jazzed up for the sake of entertainment, but not to the point where you were rolling your eyes or letting out a disgruntled 'psh!'

However, things changed slightly for TDK. Mixed in with the believable characters and plot were aspects that were not just improbable or downright impossible, but just plain silly. I mean, miniature sonar devices installed into EVERY phone in a city that is home to millions while keeping it under the radar of EVERYONE? Batman driving his bike up to a wall and somehow doing a 180-flip? All these unnecessary scenes did was water down a relatively deep and thought provoking story line into Hollywood action-movie garbage.

In addition to the rather small aforementioned details, one glaring plot defect was the death of Harvey Dent/Two Face. This move was absolutely unforgivable, in my opinion. Dent was primarily a secondary character in the movie, though they were able to beautifully develop his character from the 'White Knight' to a ruthless serial killer. However, right as his character's story is getting interesting, they kill him off. Two Face's survival would've segued perfectly into a third movie (which is now obsolete and unneeded, thanks to the sub-par ending). Additionally, Rachel's death was the primary catalyst for Dent turning into Two face. In fact, it was the ONLY catalyst. Killing off Two Face so early in his 'life', if you will, makes Rachel's death irrelevant. The whole 'you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain' moral was great, and leaving Two Face alive would spell some great confrontations, both in action and in dialogue, between him and Batman.

Overall it was a damned good movie. Joker's character was mesmerizing, and the rest of the cast did a solid job (though mostly overshadowed by Ledger). However, these few, glaring problems kept me from falling head over heels for it.

Anyways, do you guys agree or disagree? Did you have any other problems with the movie?

From what I gathered, they didn't install chips or anything into the cell phones, they just were able to tap into cell phone sound waves and use them as a sonar thing. They can only spy on people who are talking on the phone.

The 180 bike reversal is possible. It can't be done as suddenly as batman did it, but it's possible.

In my opinion, the movie could've done better with an R-rating, or at least PG 13 (I'm from Canada, I don't know what it was rated in USA but it was PG in Canada).

And they should've gotten rid of any line that was even close to being cheesy.

[spoiler] Although it is implied that Two-Face is dead, they could easily bring him back. Batman fell the exact same distance, and walked away unharmed. Furthermore, it could very well be that Dent is secretly locked away in Arkham Asylum, and that he never really died at all. We actually have sort of a precedent for this, since earlier in the same movie, Gordon was publicly announced to be dead even though he was secretly very much alive. [/spoiler] MrGeezer

Agreed. I also think that they killed Two Face off way to fast, but who knows where this will/can go.

It's called a movie. Movies aren't real. You could say the same things about any movie.

Oh, Star wars is so unrealistic. i mean, magical laser swords, thats not even possible. And a powerful force that holds the universe together, which a few people can control? Jedis? Wookies? Ewaks? Seriously impossible.

Movies are not made too seem completely real, if they were, they would be boring.

R Rating? What for?

Harvey Dent could be unconscious for all we know but there really wasn't any hard evidence to suggest that he was dead. I thought the movie was fantastic. I was very surprised that they killed Rachel Dawes, but I suppose it had to be done sooner or later.

The question is though, who would be the villan for the third movie installment?

damn spoilers not quotingMrGeezer

yes [spoiler] they could bring him back, it would help with the story line with the cops vs batman, because as for right now, i have no idea how they will solve that issue, I mean no matter what good he does now, he will still be remember for being a cop killer, so something willl have to come up to redeem him, and Dent being alive would do that. [/spoiler]

As for the Batpod thing....that is not impossible at all, if youve seen any stunts drivers youd know that, all he did was drive it up the wall and spin on the back wheel to turn aroond.

SaintLeonidas

True, but those were dirty cops that died.

R Rating? What for?

Harvey Dent could be unconscious for all we know but there really wasn't any hard evidence to suggest that he was dead. I thought the movie was fantastic. I was very surprised that they killed Rachel Dawes, but I suppose it had to be done sooner or later.

The question is though, who would be the villan for the third movie installment?

LadyShanoa

Well.. They basically do a eulogy for him at the end. I suppose this could be to make the public believe that he's dead, but I don't think so. It would way to hard for them to convict Harvey without the media picking up on it. He pretty much has to be dead.

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

LadyShanoa

True, but those were dirty cops that died.

Not really. They were blackmailed/controlled by the mob. If your mother was going to die unless you did the mob's bidding, I bet you'd work with them too.

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

LadyShanoa

True, but those were dirty cops that died.

well [spoiler] they did it because they "had to in a sense" and it was called in andn the city is up in arms. They could keep with the story line of him being a hero by being a villain to the people, but I think evetually teh citizens will need him to be a hero again, and to do that he will need to be set against somthing very important. [/spoiler]

There were consequences for those cops who made a deal with the devil. The female cop whose mother was sick and had medical bills out the wah-zoo needed money badly. So instead of asking other people for help she makes a deal with the Mob.

Dirty cops die without honor. If my mother was sick, I'd find another way before signing my soul over.

They also had us fooled thinking Gordon was dead. Anything is possible.

There were consequences for those cops who made a deal with the devil. The female cop whose mother was sick and had medical bills out the wah-zoo needed money badly. So instead of asking other people for help she makes a deal with the Mob.

Dirty cops die without honor. If my mother was sick, I'd find another way before signing my soul over.

They also had us fooled thinking Gordon was dead. Anything is possible.

LadyShanoa

I saw the movie, but i don't remember any of that.

An issue I had with TDK was they made Batman sound like someon whos been smoking for 60 years.EVOLV3

Well if you were smart enough or were paying attention. The reason why he talks in a deep voice is to hide his identity so people wont recognize his real voice.

MikeG, Why so serious?

[spoiler] Sorry I had to say it. Anyways I went to go see this movie for two reasons. I wanted the see the Joker and I wanted to see a semi flip completly over. I got both of those along with a super hero movie with more stones than the rest of them combined. The fact that they actually killed the girl made me so happy. I mean I can't think of an action movie in years that even attempted to have the kind of character development that this movie had. Though I thought that one of the members of Gordon's family dieing would have added an extra touch to the movie. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="LadyShanoa"]

There were consequences for those cops who made a deal with the devil. The female cop whose mother was sick and had medical bills out the wah-zoo needed money badly. So instead of asking other people for help she makes a deal with the Mob.

Dirty cops die without honor. If my mother was sick, I'd find another way before signing my soul over.

They also had us fooled thinking Gordon was dead. Anything is possible.

harashawn

I saw the movie, but i don't remember any of that.

When Two-Face is going around searching for everyone involved in Rachel's death he confronts the cops that kidnapped her for the Joker. Ramirez (the female cop) tells Two-Face that she "had to" help the mob (who were helping the Joker) because it was the only way to safe her hospitalized mother. He flips a coin, and she gets to live.

[QUOTE="EVOLV3"]An issue I had with TDK was they made Batman sound like someon whos been smoking for 60 years.-sharp-shooter-

Well if you were smart enough or were paying attention. The reason why he talks in a deep voice is to hide his identity so people wont recognize his real voice.

This. Bruce Wayne is way too recognized of a person. Batman encounters many people who could easily recognize Bruce Wayne's voice, so he has to mask it.

[QUOTE="EVOLV3"]An issue I had with TDK was they made Batman sound like someon whos been smoking for 60 years.-sharp-shooter-

Well if you were smart enough or were paying attention. The reason why he talks in a deep voice is to hide his identity so people wont recognize his real voice.

yeah, i dont get this problem people have, I mean have they seen teh first? do they realize that Bruce Wayne is a playboy, known by most if not all who live in the city, this isnt Peter Parker who is only known by a few, so he doesnt have to worry about some random guy noticing his voice, almosy all in Gotham know Wayne, so he needs to hid his voice more then most superheros, also its to strike fear in his enemies, I mean if not like that, what would you want for him to hid his voice, talk like a lollipo kid in Oz????

Jojojo, this guy is funny, alright whenever you see a realistic movie on the theater call me, ok?

Movies are made with impossible stunts and non-real things to entertain cause making a movie realistic, ummmm is not that

great.
NimbusEx

...not really, a movie doesnt have to be unrealistic to be good, not at all.

From what I gathered, they didn't install chips or anything into the cell phones, they just were able to tap into cell phone sound waves and use them as a sonar thing. They can only spy on people who are talking on the phone.

The 180 bike reversal is possible. It can't be done as suddenly as batman did it, but it's possible.

In my opinion, the movie could've done better with an R-rating, or at least PG 13 (I'm from Canada, I don't know what it was rated in USA but it was PG in Canada).

And they should've gotten rid of any line that was even close to being cheesy.

DOMenico

It might have been a better movie with an R rating, but the PG-13 rating is CRUCIAL for maximum revenue lol.

TDK was a great movie. Let me get that out of the way. Casting, special effects, acting, story, character development, it all worked well to make a solid movie. However, there were a few things that held it back from being spectacular.

I'd say overall, TDK and Batman Begins were aimed to turn the batman series in a more believable, human direction. While there were aspects to the first movie that flirted with impossibility, it was in general a fairly believable movie. The characters had real emotions and passions which influenced and often times drove their actions. The action parts of the movie were jazzed up for the sake of entertainment, but not to the point where you were rolling your eyes or letting out a disgruntled 'psh!'

However, things changed slightly for TDK. Mixed in with the believable characters and plot were aspects that were not just improbable or downright impossible, but just plain silly. I mean, miniature sonar devices installed into EVERY phone in a city that is home to millions while keeping it under the radar of EVERYONE? You do realize that all phones emmit a high signal? if you can get a machine that can convert that it could in theory work, so it was actually very believable. Batman driving his bike up to a wall and somehow doing a 180-flip? Have you ever been to a bike trick show? those things are easy, especially when you have a bike that has wheels that can do a 0 degree turn. All these unnecessary scenes did was water down a relatively deep and thought provoking story line into Hollywood action-movie garbage.

In addition to the rather small aforementioned details, one glaring plot defect was the death of Harvey Dent/Two Face. This move was absolutely unforgivable, in my opinion. Dent was primarily a secondary character in the movie, though they were able to beautifully develop his character from the 'White Knight' to a ruthless serial killer. However, right as his character's story is getting interesting, they kill him off. Two Face's survival would've segued perfectly into a third movie (which is now obsolete and unneeded, thanks to the sub-par ending). Additionally, Rachel's death was the primary catalyst for Dent turning into Two face. In fact, it was the ONLY catalyst. Killing off Two Face so early in his 'life', if you will, makes Rachel's death irrelevant. The whole 'you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain' moral was great, and leaving Two Face alive would spell some great confrontations, both in action and in dialogue, between him and Batman.

Overall it was a damned good movie. Joker's character was mesmerizing, and the rest of the cast did a solid job (though mostly overshadowed by Ledger). However, these few, glaring problems kept me from falling head over heels for it.

Anyways, do you guys agree or disagree? Did you have any other problems with the movie?

mikeg0788

First off...

[spoiler] The never confirmed that Harvey Dent was dead, well Harvey Dent is dead but more than likely Two-Face is not [/spoiler]

Secondly

You are complaining about things being unrealistic in a Batman movie? Like gliding around with ease with a cape is feasible? Inducing fear(at the levels Scarecrow can) through a breathable substance is real? You are just nit-picking about the180-turn.

[spoiler] Although it is implied that Two-Face is dead, they could easily bring him back. Batman fell the exact same distance, and walked away unharmed. Furthermore, it could very well be that Dent is secretly locked away in Arkham Asylum, and that he never really died at all. We actually have sort of a precedent for this, since earlier in the same movie, Gordon was publicly announced to be dead even though he was secretly very much alive. [/spoiler] MrGeezer

I agree. And although TC, you bring up some good points, I still thought it was great. Definitely better than most of the horrific films being made nowadays. Bevery Hills Chihuaha anyone?

It's called a movie. Movies aren't real. You could say the same things about any movie.

Oh, Star wars is so unrealistic. i mean, magical laser swords, thats not even possible. And a powerful force that holds the universe together, which a few people can control? Jedis? Wookies? Ewaks? Seriously impossible.

Movies are not made too seem completely real, if they were, they would be boring.

harashawn

I went to extraordinary lengths to explain myself so people like you (read: idiots) wouldn't get the wrong idea. I guess either your comprehension skills are null or you didn't read my post at all.

Different movies give off different vibes. You don't go into a movie like Star Wars thinking you'll see something probable or believable, you go in there to be wowed by the special effects.

TDK, on the other hand, gives off a more realistic vibe. However, 'more realistic' isn't 'absolutely realistic', and I for one know how to differentiate the two.