The effects of science on theists.

Some people love to believe that as long as we keep getting smarter, religious beliefs will diminish. In fact, that's exactly what James Leuba, an atheist scholar, believed in 1914. Upon a study he conducted, it was discovered that, amazingly (for that time), only about 40% of scientists believed in some form of religion. Leuba predicted that as scientific knowledge grows, religious beliefs will eventually vanish.

In recent years, studies have been conducted that paralleled Leuba's, to see if his prediction was correct. The results were nearly identical to Leuba's. This is a bad thing for people who think science is somehow destroying religion.

After almost 100 years, amazingly (for this time), nearly forty percent of scientists believe in God. That belief seems to hinge greatly on their respective areas of expertise--Physicists are not likely to believe in God, while mathematicians are more likely to believe.

An excerpt from this article:

"The authors of that article set out to determine whether the atheistic trend in science had increased or not. They repeated the questions of the 1914 poll to the same level of scientists and discovered that today there are still 40% of scientists who believe in God. They conclude, "scientists today no more jettison Christianity's 'two cardinal beliefs' than their counterparts did in 1914. Gallup surveys suggest the same about the general population."

From Discovery.com:

The new poll proved that widespread education did not destroy the need to believe in a greater force. . . In fact, the only major shift occurred among scientific disciplines.

In Leuba's day, biologists showed the highest rate of disbelief (69.5 per cent). "That ranking is now given to physicists/astronomers (77.9 per cent).

Mathematicians, who were the most inclined to believe in God, (44.6 per cent) remained consistent over time.

I highly recommend those links be read (the discovery one is about ten years old, so it may be off by a few margins).

I wonder how they got those statistics in the first place......

This says absolutely nothing and doesn't prove the existence of God in any way, shape, or form. Not to mention the scientist didn't state that they follow a certain religion, they just believe in a god, which is understandable. Why do theists act like science is the "religion" of atheist and that the scientists are our preachers? Even if 90% of scientists believed in God, I still wouldn't. Does the article even state specifically what scientists they surveyed?

What was your whole point with the creation of this thread?

Edit: Did you notice how many "scientists" they actually polled? Only 600.......not even close to being enough to make an accurate statistic, especially for not even specifying what kind of scientists they polled (I'm talking specifcally what they are, not a general "astronomers" or "physicist"....).

Religion will never die, what else would be the point of ourlifes?? Hopefully there will always be people smart enough to know there's a greater reason for being alive than just beingevolved into existance.

Also,there's so many flaws in the scientific explaination of evolution and the "big bang theory" that there'll always be scientists that see how flawed it is and won't believe it.

Science will eventually prove the existence of God and all of these bickering can end...

Edit:

The thing that really ticks me off is this is presented from the view point that scientists or people who believe in science are somehow out to destroy religion. It's as though we're some sneaky bastards who thrive on robbing people of their faith.

In reality we want to see religion disappear because RELIGIOUS PEOPLE KEEP ****ING UP THE WORLD. It has nothing to do with testing faith or any of that BS. It's people who carry these grudges that keep piling **** on all of humanity.

We want religion to end not because it robs you of your faith, but because you are robbing us of our lives.

When a theist is presented with undeniable scientific evidence they melt. Everyone knows that... :|MattUD1

Indeed. You will quite often see them trot out all sorts of simply untrue arguments or smeared positions. My favorite of which is the "science isn't 100% accurate" complaint, or the "it's just a theory" nonsense. They simply don't understand the basis of the scientific method or logic.

Science will eventually prove the existence of God and all of these bickering can end...D9-THC

Actually, using the scientific law of Occam's Razor, it has proven that God is totally unecassary, for the creation and continuation of this universe.

Religion will never die, what else would be the point of ourlifes?? Hopefully there will always be people smart enough to know there's a greater reason for being alive than just beingevolved into existance.

Also,there's so many flaws in the scientific explaination of evolution and the "big bang theory" that there'll always be scientists that see how flawed it is and won't believe it.

Toyeboy

Ok, write a compelling and descriptive book distinguishing what these "flaws" are. Deal? And you do know that even if evolution is somehow wrong, it still doesn't prove the existence of a god in any way.....

It's funny that you talk about flaws too, because the Bible is full of them......

[QUOTE="MattUD1"]When a theist is presented with undeniable scientific evidence they melt. Everyone knows that... :|CaptHawkeye

Indeed. You will quite often see them trot out all sorts of simply untrue arguments or smeared positions. My favorite of which is the "science isn't 100% accurate" complaint, or the "it's just a theory" nonsense. They simply don't understand the basis of the scientific method or logic.

Most people don't even know what the scientificdefinition of a theory is, or what it takes to become one. They think of it as in the everyday use of the word. They don't even know there's such things as "Cell Theory" or the "Theory of Electricity".

Everyone should go look up what a scientific Theory actually is. Please, just do it.

Religion will never die, what else would be the point of ourlifes?? Hopefully there will always be people smart enough to know there's a greater reason for being alive than just beingevolved into existance. Toyeboy

Except that all of the smartest people on the planet believe in evolution. Or as the fundy wackos have coined it, "evolutionism". Because to them, every that that isn't in100% agreeance with their views is a rival political ideal. Again, not even the fogiest concept of how science works.

Also,there's so many flaws in the scientific explaination of evolution and the "big bang theory"

:lol: And as we all know, the Bible's accuracy is 100% perfect right?

that there'll always be scientists that see how flawed it is and won't believe it.

:roll: Here we go, find one or two mavericks who dispute the commonly accepted theory and boop! It's "in question".

[QUOTE="CaptHawkeye"]

[QUOTE="MattUD1"]When a theist is presented with undeniable scientific evidence they melt. Everyone knows that... :|trix5817

Indeed. You will quite often see them trot out all sorts of simply untrue arguments or smeared positions. My favorite of which is the "science isn't 100% accurate" complaint, or the "it's just a theory" nonsense. They simply don't understand the basis of the scientific method or logic.

Most people don't even know what the scientificdefinition of a theory is, or what it takes to become one. They think of it as in the everyday use of the word. They don't even know there's such things as "Cell Theory" or the "Theory of Electricity".

Everyone should go look up what a scientific Theory actually is. Please, just do it.

That's another thing that annoys me too. They smear the definition and application of the scientific concept of "theory" because again, they have no concept of science. They actually treat science like it's some kind of rivalreligion. They just don't get it.

[QUOTE="Toyeboy"]

Religion will never die, what else would be the point of ourlifes?? Hopefully there will always be people smart enough to know there's a greater reason for being alive than just beingevolved into existance.

Also,there's so many flaws in the scientific explaination of evolution and the "big bang theory" that there'll always be scientists that see how flawed it is and won't believe it.

trix5817

Ok, write a compelling and descriptive book distinguishing what these "flaws" are. Deal? And you do know that even if evolution is somehow wrong, it still doesn't prove the existence of a god in any way.....

It's funny that you talk about flaws too, because the Bible is full of them......

so many questions, so little answers....How did we evolve from animals if all creatures today produce the same creature, did they magically work differently back then?? Animals do not have a conscience, how do we have a conscience if we evolved from a monkey? How could we know what right and wrong is if not for God plantinga consciencein man?? Where did morals come from? How does our society know what right and wrong is without God to have put it in our little brains? where did love come from? Our ancestors were not primitive. Archeologists have discovered that our ancestors mined, had metallurgical factories, created air-conditioned buildings, designed musical instruments, studied the stars, and much more. This evidence directly contradicts the theory of evolution, but agrees completely with God's Word.

The fact is, I could go on and on and you most likely would still come up with some weird off the wall arguement that is flawed even worse. But there over 100 sciencficical facts found in the Bible you can view them all here... http://www.understandthetimes.org/101scientific.shtml(please note I DO NOT agree in all the teaching of this website)

Religion will never die, what else would be the point of ourlifes?? Hopefully there will always be people smart enough to know there's a greater reason for being alive than just beingevolved into existance.

Also,there's so many flaws in the scientific explaination of evolution and the "big bang theory" that there'll always be scientists that see how flawed it is and won't believe it.

Toyeboy

you know, when you said, "smart enough" it's like you're saying non-believers are stupid. way to go for making yourself look self-righteous and arrogant.

i hope you realize there aremore flaws in the genesis and the whole bible in itself as compared to the theory of evolution, and that the theory of evolution has more evidence to support its cause?

i dont think you do.

im catholic, btw. i believe in both science and religion, in case you're wondering. :)

so many questions, so little answers....How did we evolve from animals if all creatures today produce the same creature, did they magically work differently back then??Animals do not have a conscience, how do we have a conscience if we evolved from a monkey? How could we know what right and wrong is if not for God plantinga consciencein man??Toyeboy

"Dis/prove everything or I win". The infamous O.J. Simpson defense. I like how you seem to think that since their are "unanswered questions" in science, it is therefore less accurate than religion. Words cannot express the absurdity of this view. It's the same view the idiot 9/11 truthers like to use. And I have noless disgust of their use of it either. Pseudoscience is pseudoscience. No matter who uses it.

Where did morals come from? How does our society know what right and wrong is without God to have put it in our little brains? where did love come from? Our ancestors were not primitive.

:roll: If their is anything fundies do that DOES piss me off, it is claim that MORALS, of all things, came from THEM. Morals, from religion. Yes, morals came from them. The same group of people who have also committed the greatest numbers of historical attrocities in history. Everything from war to genocide to cultural oppression. And that if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't know what things like love, loyalty, and selflessness were.

Archeologists have discovered that our ancestors mined, had metallurgical factories, created air-conditioned buildings, designed musical instruments, studied the stars, and much more.

Our ancestors were quite scientific weren't they? This isn't hard to believe.Lots of animals havea basic understanding of engineering concepts.Ever heard of a bee hive? Bird's nest? Beaver damn?

This evidence directly contradicts the theory of evolution, but agrees completely with God's Word.

Fundy circular logic as usual. Their is nothing to link the previous two statements together, but like a good religious nut, he will claim their is. Without a shred of actual evidence to back it up. Except for whatever random snipets from the Bible he can find that seemingly support his position. (Another annoyance, fundies will regularly take phrases out of context from the Bible to attack your position, but get quite vexated when you so much as quote the bible.)

The fact is, I could go on and on and you most likely would still come up with some weird off the wall arguement that is flawed even worse.

The word "hypocrite" doesn't begin to describe you. We make weird off the wall arguments? Sure dude. We aren't the ones claiming that the Bible is more accurate source of information than the scientific method. But like a good fundy, you know what to do when confronted by superior logic. Just smear its position. And if that doesn't work, keep regurgitating the same arguments over and over again in the hopes that the audience won't realize that they'd been crushed at the very start of the debate.

But there over 100 sciencficical facts found in the Bible you can view them all here... http://www.understandthetimes.org/101scientific.shtml(please note I DO NOT agree in all the teaching of this website)

I don't care what you think of the website. It's an evangelical book store and thus not to be trusted. It's funny to watch the book your advertising take little snipets from the Bible and use them to, of all things, validate the Bible's scientific credibility. This is too funny for words.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Toyeboy"]

Religion will never die, what else would be the point of ourlifes?? Hopefully there will always be people smart enough to know there's a greater reason for being alive than just beingevolved into existance.

Also,there's so many flaws in the scientific explaination of evolution and the "big bang theory" that there'll always be scientists that see how flawed it is and won't believe it.

Toyeboy

Ok, write a compelling and descriptive book distinguishing what these "flaws" are. Deal? And you do know that even if evolution is somehow wrong, it still doesn't prove the existence of a god in any way.....

It's funny that you talk about flaws too, because the Bible is full of them......

so many questions, so little answers....How did we evolve from animals if all creatures today produce the same creature, did they magically work differently back then?? Animals do not have a conscience, how do we have a conscience if we evolved from a monkey? How could we know what right and wrong is if not for God plantinga consciencein man?? Where did morals come from? How does our society know what right and wrong is without God to have put it in our little brains? where did love come from? Our ancestors were not primitive. Archeologists have discovered that our ancestors mined, had metallurgical factories, created air-conditioned buildings, designed musical instruments, studied the stars, and much more. This evidence directly contradicts the theory of evolution, but agrees completely with God's Word.

The fact is, I could go on and on and you most likely would still come up with some weird off the wall arguement that is flawed even worse. But there over 100 sciencficical facts found in the Bible you can view them all here... http://www.understandthetimes.org/101scientific.shtml(please note I DO NOT agree in all the teaching of this website)

W....O......W.........

I wonder how they got those statistics in the first place......

Surveys.

This says absolutely nothing and doesn't prove the existence of God in any way, shape, or form. Not to mention the scientist didn't state that they follow a certain religion, they just believe in a god, which is understandable. Why do theists act like science is the "religion" of atheist and that the scientists are our preachers? Even if 90% of scientists believed in God, I still wouldn't. Does the article even state specifically what scientists they surveyed?

I'm not trying to prove the existence of God.:| I also said that the scientists follow some form of religion; I never gavce an exact religion. Learn to read.

Theists don't act like science is the religion of atheists; Atheists do.;)

What was your whole point with the creation of this thread?

To show how idiiotic it is to believe that science is somehow destroying religion.

Edit: Did you notice how many "scientists" they actually polled? Only 600.......not even close to being enough to make an accurate statistic, especially for not even specifying what kind of scientists they polled (I'm talking specifcally what they are, not a general "astronomers" or "physicist"....).

"We polled 1000 and got back 600 responses...not a real robust sample but on par with what Leuba got,"

They reviewed all fields of scientists. Physicists are not as likely to believe in God, while mathemeticians are more likely. Learn to read; It works wonders in life.

trix5817

The thing that really ticks me off is this is presented from the view point that scientists or people who believe in science are somehow out to destroy religion. It's as though we're some sneaky bastards who thrive on robbing people of their faith.

In reality we want to see religion disappear because RELIGIOUS PEOPLE KEEP ****ING UP THE WORLD. It has nothing to do with testing faith or any of that BS. It's people who carry these grudges that keep piling **** on all of humanity.

We want religion to end not because it robs you of your faith, but because you are robbing us of our lives.

D9-THC

You have misunderstood. This is presented from the viewpoint that some people foolishly think that science is out to destroy religion.

As for religious people who keep ****ing up the world, I invite you to take a look at the RRS, along with the atheist leaders of communistic countries throughout history.

[QUOTE="D9-THC"]Science will eventually prove the existence of God and all of these bickering can end...CaptHawkeye

Actually, using the scientific law of Occam's Razor, it has proven that God is totally unecassary, for the creation and continuation of this universe.

Occam's Razor can ONLY be applied to falsifiable theories. ;)

Except that all of the smartest people on the planet believe in evolution. Or as the fundy wackos have coined it, "evolutionism". Because to them, every that that isn't in100% agreeance with their views is a rival political ideal. Again, not even the fogiest concept of how science works.

CaptHawkeye

From dictionary.com:

ev·o·lu·tion·ism (ěv'ə-lōō'shə-nĭz'əm, ē'və-) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. A theory of biological evolution, especially that formulated by Charles Darwin.
2. Advocacy of or belief in biological evolution.

It's funny that you talk about flaws too, because the Bible is full of them......

trix5817

Wow. That is SUCH an extensive list of errors.:roll:

"Dis/prove everything or I win". The infamous O.J. Simpson defense. I like how you seem to think that since their are "unanswered questions" in science, it is therefore less accurate than religion. Words cannot express the absurdity of this view. It's the same view the idiot 9/11 truthers like to use. And I have noless disgust of their use of it either. Pseudoscience is pseudoscience. No matter who uses it.

Where did morals come from? How does our society know what right and wrong is without God to have put it in our little brains? where did love come from? Our ancestors were not primitive.

:roll: If their is anything fundies do that DOES piss me off, it is claim that MORALS, of all things, came from THEM. Morals, from religion. Yes, morals came from them. The same group of people who have also committed the greatest numbers of historical attrocities in history. Everything from war to genocide to cultural oppression. And that if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't know what things like love, loyalty, and selflessness were.

Baseless claims for the loss. Atheists have commited more atrocities than all theistic conflicts in the history of the world.

This evidence directly contradicts the theory of evolution, but agrees completely with God's Word.

Fundy circular logic as usual. Their is nothing to link the previous two statements together, but like a good religious nut, he will claim their is. Without a shred of actual evidence to back it up. Except for whatever random snipets from the Bible he can find that seemingly support his position. (Another annoyance, fundies will regularly take phrases out of context from the Bible to attack your position, but get quite vexated when you so much as quote the bible.)

Uh, atheists rip verses out of context and act like the Bible is wrong ALL. THE. TIME.

The fact is, I could go on and on and you most likely would still come up with some weird off the wall arguement that is flawed even worse.

The word "hypocrite" doesn't begin to describe you. We make weird off the wall arguments? Sure dude. We aren't the ones claiming that the Bible is more accurate source of information than the scientific method. But like a good fundy, you know what to do when confronted by superior logic. Just smear its position. And if that doesn't work, keep regurgitating the same arguments over and over again in the hopes that the audience won't realize that they'd been crushed at the very start of the debate.

"Superior logic"? Did you use the scientific method to come to that conclusion?

But there over 100 sciencficical facts found in the Bible you can view them all here... http://www.understandthetimes.org/101scientific.shtml(please note I DO NOT agree in all the teaching of this website)

I don't care what you think of the website. It's an evangelical book store and thus not to be trusted. It's funny to watch the book your advertising take little snipets from the Bible and use them to, of all things, validate the Bible's scientific credibility. This is too funny for words.

Calling "Bias!" does nothing to address an argument. In fact, it only shows that you have no argument.

By the way, I'm not a YEC.;)

CaptHawkeye

[QUOTE="MattUD1"]When a theist is presented with undeniable scientific evidence they melt. Everyone knows that... :|CaptHawkeye

Indeed. You will quite often see them trot out all sorts of simply untrue arguments or smeared positions. My favorite of which is the "science isn't 100% accurate" complaint, or the "it's just a theory" nonsense. They simply don't understand the basis of the scientific method or logic.

I do;) (understand the scientific method and am a Christian) It is like some people don't pay attention the first week of science.

Francis S. Collins, the director of the Human Genome Project had a fascinating book called the Language of God. He is a Christian and he talks about pure creationism, pure evolution, discusses the flaws in each, and then talks about a more amalgam of the two.

what's the point of this thread?Pearl_of_Egypt

hey silver_dragon :)

so still going at the religion threads I see?

hey silver_dragon :)

so still going at the religion threads I see?

muppet1010

What else would I do all day? :P

[QUOTE="Pearl_of_Egypt"]what's the point of this thread?EboyLOL

No, I just don't like idiotic statements about me and what I believe being paraded around as fact by people who routinely state that they quit learning about it when they were 8 with a sunday school knowledge of the subject.

[QUOTE="Pearl_of_Egypt"]what's the point of this thread?EboyLOL

If I remember correctly he made a lot of very convincing arguments. And there's nothing wrong with being insecure about one's own beliefs, doubt is actually a large part of being christian.

But yeah trying to convince people to leave their beliefs on GS is pointless.

[QUOTE="EboyLOL"][QUOTE="Pearl_of_Egypt"]what's the point of this thread?Dracargen

No, I just don't like idiotic statements about me and what I believe being paraded around as fact by people who routinely state that they quit learning about it when they were 8 with a sunday school knowledge of the subject.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="EboyLOL"][QUOTE="Pearl_of_Egypt"]what's the point of this thread?EboyLOL

No, I just don't like idiotic statements about me and what I believe being paraded around as fact by people who routinely state that they quit learning about it when they were 8 with a sunday school knowledge of the subject.

My opinions on music effect my credibility in religious discussions?:|

Anyway, I'm not trying to convert anybody or make the change their minds. I'm showing that the propoganda being paraded by people like Hitchens is false and idiotic.

Why does everyone think religion=Creationism? darkIink

The same reason everyone thinks Islam = suicide bombers

After almost 100 years, amazingly (for this time), nearly forty percent of scientists believe in God. That belief seems to hinge greatly on their respective areas of expertise--Physicists are not likely to believe in God, while mathematicians are more likely to believe.

Dracargen

Just my 2 cents.

Atheists have commited more atrocities than all theistic conflicts in the history of the world.Dracargen

wow. how about a little refreshing course on the millions killed.

THE CRUSADES

-The Crusaders commited numerous atrocities against Muslim populations: mass excecutions, throwing of the heads of Muslim over besieged cities, exhibition and mutilation of naked Muslim cadavers, or cannibalism as in the 1098 Siege of Maarat. They also executed thousands of civilians in all 3 crusades.

The HOLOCAUST

-The term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the National Socialist regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler.

In 1209, Pope Innocent III launched an armed crusade against Albigenses Christians in southern France. When the besieged city of Beziers fell, soldiers reportedly asked their papal adviser how to distinguish the faithful from the infidel among the captives. He commanded: "Kill them all. God will know his own." Nearly 20,000 were slaughtered -- many first blinded, mutilated, dragged behind horses, or used for target practice.

Incans, Mayans, and Aztecs each executed tens of thousands of people each year to please the gods.

Islamic jihads (holy wars), mandated by the Koran, killed millions over 12 centuries.

Many more at http://www.skeptically.org/enlightenment/id7.html

Please, top these with your list of terrible atheist atrocities.

I don't understand why the debate about god is never about definition. Physicists believe in all different kinds of 'god'.quiglythegreat

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Atheists have commited more atrocities than all theistic conflicts in the history of the world.towel_

wow. how about a little refreshing course on the millions killed.

THE CRUSADES

-The Crusaders commited numerous atrocities against Muslim populations: mass excecutions, throwing of the heads of Muslim over besieged cities, exhibition and mutilation of naked Muslim cadavers, or cannibalism as in the 1098 Siege of Maarat. They also executed thousands of civilians in all 3 crusades.

The HOLOCAUST

-The term generally used to describe the killing of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the National Socialist regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler.

In 1209, Pope Innocent III launched an armed crusade against Albigenses Christians in southern France. When the besieged city of Beziers fell, soldiers reportedly asked their papal adviser how to distinguish the faithful from the infidel among the captives. He commanded: "Kill them all. God will know his own." Nearly 20,000 were slaughtered -- many first blinded, mutilated, dragged behind horses, or used for target practice.

Incans, Mayans, and Aztecs each executed tens of thousands of people each year to please the gods.

Islamic jihads (holy wars), mandated by the Koran, killed millions over 12 centuries.

Many more at http://www.skeptically.org/enlightenment/id7.html

Please, top these with your list of terrible atheist atrocities.

Don't forget the Spanish Inquisition.

I am not against religion. I'm against organized religion.