I view things as phases in our social evolution. I think religion was of great help in giving humanity a certain moral guidance in order to maintain a certain level of integrity and "peace" (loosely used here) in large groups of people. I think if we didn't use such things we would probably have socially evolved much slower initially in that we would probably have been a tribal-based humans for a much longer time than coming together into civilizations cohesively. This doesn't just apply to Christianity and Muslim but as long as religion has been gathering groups of populations together.
But I think now humanity has socially evolved and no longer needs religion as a moral coexisting guidance as we have a set standard of morality now with use of law and order. It was a very handy tool, that's how I view it.
Religious topics are getting a tad old today though.
LULZ...no The principles of both promote kindness towards others. Those in power just use religion as a rallying cry to get what they want. Without religion, they would just find another substitute.
It's virtually impossible to objectively know the course of human history were Christianity and Islam to not exist. However, essentially no wars were not fought for religion, contrary to popular belief. Unrestrained greed seems to be the actual cause.
It's virtually impossible to objectively know the course of the universe were Christianity and Islam to not exist. However, most wars were not fought for religion, contrary to popular belief. Greed seems to be the actual cause.
coolbeans90
Of course greed is the actual cause, religion was conveniently there to justify atrocities and reasons for going to war without causing massive unrest in a nation (In many cases). Religion was and is a powerful tool for obtaining even (more) power.
[QUOTE="rawsavon"]LULZ...no The principles of both promote kindness towards others. Those in power just use religion as a rallying cry to get what they want. Without religion, they would just find another substitute. Definitely this.
People use religion for evil, but religion in and of itself is not evil. But this promotes the assumption that the problem is man, which I entirely believe. When people gain power, whether through religion, politics, war (or a mix of all three), their inclination is to gain more. That's always how it has worked.
It's virtually impossible to objectively know the course of the universe were Christianity and Islam to not exist. However, most wars were not fought for religion, contrary to popular belief. Greed seems to be the actual cause.
carrot-cake
Of course greed is the actual cause, religion was conveniently there to justify atrocities and reasons for going to war without causing massive unrest in a nation (In many cases). Religion was and is a powerful tool for obtaining even (more) power.
There seems to have been no shortage of means to manipulate populations to war aside from religion. Furthermore, how does one weigh this against wars avoided due to religion? Can it be actually be proven that religion causes a net gain in war? How about other factors in religion causing other benefits towards humanity? Then of course there are other potential drawbacks to religion. To quantify these, and then to qualify which qualities outweigh which leave me skeptical that the question regarding religion being good or bad can be answered.
True enough. People used religion to get what they wanted. ...but it at least has many redeeming qualities What would be the case had religion never existed and those in power used something with no redeeming qualities to get what they wanted?
[QUOTE="rawsavon"]True enough. People used religion to get what they wanted. ...but it at least has many redeeming qualities What would be the case had religion never existed and those in power used something with no redeeming qualities to get what they wanted? Well, we can be sure that there would be something else that people would use as a claim to power. Other religions could be invented for such a purpose theoretically. I mean, the Caesar's used Roman Mythology to justify their power, even going as far to say as they are divine in themselves. These religions teach good natured values. People are the ones who ultimately use it as a means for power. it doesn't mean the religion itself is a cause for violence.
It's virtually impossible to objectively know the course of the universe were Christianity and Islam to not exist. However, most wars were not fought for religion, contrary to popular belief. Greed seems to be the actual cause.
coolbeans90
Of course greed is the actual cause, religion was conveniently there to justify atrocities and reasons for going to war without causing massive unrest in a nation (In many cases). Religion was and is a powerful tool for obtaining even (more) power.
There seems to have been no shortage of means to manipulate populations to war aside from religion. Furthermore, how does one weigh this against wars avoided due to religion? Can it be actually be proven that religion causes a net gain in war? How about other factors in religion causing other benefits towards humanity? Then of course there are other potential drawbacks to religion. To quantify these, and then to qualify which qualities outweigh which leave me skeptical that the question regarding religion being good or bad can be answered.
A religion in its self is not bad unless its teaching are intended for it's followers to harm one another or disbelievers in that religion. It cannot be proven that religion causes a net gain in war, nor can it really be disproven with stronge evidence. We haven't had an entire world void of religion for an extended period of time, so proof against or for isn't possible. A logical proof could be made that religion in its self isn't terrible, just the people who manipulate it to make it into an engine for war. Many wars seemingly caused by religion likely go against the teachings of the religion which is being used to justify war. Religion has many benefits for society, such as creating and enforcing common morals and beliefs, which most are arguably beneficial for the society it is present in. Its nearly impossible to say whether religion is good or bad for a society since there are too many variables upon variables to consider. Theoretically, most religion should be generally beneficial for society, since the society which follows a religion is usually the one who created it and thus the morals and rules which the religion dictates should be forward moving and beneficial for the society. *should*.
This will probably get locked, but the world would definitely NOT be a better place.
battlefront23
Indeed.
During the Dark Ages, it was the scholarly Catholic monks that preserved much of the knowledge accumulated by Western civilization from the Romans, Greeks, and etc.
[QUOTE="carrot-cake"] Of course greed is the actual cause, religion was conveniently there to justify atrocities and reasons for going to war without causing massive unrest in a nation (In many cases). Religion was and is a powerful tool for obtaining even (more) power.
carrot-cake
There seems to have been no shortage of means to manipulate populations to war aside from religion. Furthermore, how does one weigh this against wars avoided due to religion? Can it be actually be proven that religion causes a net gain in war? How about other factors in religion causing other benefits towards humanity? Then of course there are other potential drawbacks to religion. To quantify these, and then to qualify which qualities outweigh which leave me skeptical that the question regarding religion being good or bad can be answered.
A religion in its self is not bad unless its teaching are intended for it's followers to harm one another or disbelievers in that religion. It cannot be proven that religion causes a net gain in war, nor can it really be disproven with stronge evidence. We haven't had an entire world void of religion for an extended period of time, so proof against or for isn't possible. A logical proof could be made that religion in its self isn't terrible, just the people who manipulate it to make it into an engine for war. Many wars seemingly caused by religion likely go against the teachings of the religion which is being used to justify war. Religion has many benefits for society, such as creating and enforcing common morals and beliefs, which most are arguably beneficial for the society it is present in. Its nearly impossible to say whether religion is good or bad for a society since there are too many variables upon variables to consider. Theoretically, most religion should be generally beneficial for society, since the society which follows a religion is usually the one who created it and thus the morals and rules which the religion dictates should be forward moving and beneficial for the society. *should*.
There is nothing in this post that I disagree with.
This will probably get locked, but the world would definitely NOT be a better place.
reagan80_basic
Indeed.
During the Dark Ages, it was the scholarly Catholic monks that preserved much of the knowledge accumulated by Western civilization from the Romans, Greeks, and etc.
Christianity isn't entirely composed of Luddites.
That and the actual red letters of Jesus are well received and well agreed upon by almost everyone as a good way to live a life. In fact, I don't really think many people really have problems with Jesus or Muhammed (sp?). So to make an assumption that the world would be a better place without their teachings I think is not only ignorant, but it also attacks a problem without going to the root of what the problem ACTUALLY is.
... Other religions would take there place... And we would be at the same place over again.. Religion is a cornerstone to human society... The idea of agnostic and atheism is a modern day invention/belief.
[QUOTE="rawsavon"]LULZ...no The principles of both promote kindness towards others. Those in power just use religion as a rallying cry to get what they want. Without religion, they would just find another substitute. ^This^ There will always be people who will find another reason to fuel their own violence and hatred. The World would in no way be a better place in my opinion.
This will probably get locked, but the world would definitely NOT be a better place.
reagan80_basic
Indeed.
During the Dark Ages, it was the scholarly Catholic monks that preserved much of the knowledge accumulated by Western civilization from the Romans, Greeks, and etc.
Christianity isn't entirely composed of Luddites.
That doesn't mean anything.. Christianity and Islam would merely be replaced by a different religion to fill the void.. We can not declare one way or the other..
All of gotta say is wow to all those ignorant enough to think religion is the primary reason for wars. It is mearly a scap goat or explotable reason. Without it, something else would've been used.
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