Transhumanism (H+)

Transhumanism, often abbreviated as H+ or h+, is an international intellectual and cultural movement that affirms the possibility and desirability of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to eliminate aging and to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.

That's the short definition from wikipedia. To explain it simply, transhumanism in the broadest sense of the term implies the advancement of the human race in all possible domains (physical, intellectual and so on). This would be solely possible by the means of a scientific and technological progress, which really isn't something new, taking into account the technological advancement in the last 3-4 millennia, not that there was no technology much earlier, but it is difficult to compare the "technology" of the stone age and the one of the bronze age.

This progress would look quite different in various fields, for example: in biomedical sciences it would mean health improvement and life extension, in the field of AI the building intelligent machines, in neuroscience the development of cognitive enhancers, in genetics would mean redesigning the human genome etc etc.

The notion of transhuman singularity denotes a moment when an AI that is smarter than us is created, and as such it can self-improve, so the first AI generation would make an even smarter AI second generation and so and so on, probably ad infinitum, to the point where we ourselves will become the equivalent of what bacteria is to us. It is kind of scary when you think about it, but in case of a friendly AI the future certainly looks very very bright for us, as it will probably be possible during our lifetime given the fact that most predictions say that this kind of technology will be available to us in about 30 years.


Discuss... :)

Scary. Not sure if I like this.Rikusaki

You will definitly like that. ;)

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]Scary. Not sure if I like this.dramaybaz

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]Scary. Not sure if I like this.dramaybaz

[QUOTE="dramaybaz"][QUOTE="Rikusaki"]Scary. Not sure if I like this.Stavrogin_

I've played Bioshock and that's not at all how things would end up.jimmyjammer69

The notion of transhuman singularity denotes a moment when an AI that is smarter than us is created, and as such it can self-improve, so the first AI generation would make an even smarter AI second generation and so and so on, probably ad infinitum, to the point where we ourselves will become the equivalent of what bacteria is to us. It is kind of scary when you think about it, but in case of a friendly AI the future certainly looks very very bright for us, as it will probably be possible during our lifetime given the fact that most predictions say that this kind of technology will be available to us in about 30 years.

Stavrogin_

Sounds like something straight out of MGS.

I do believe a higher form of intelligence than us would be more trustworthy than any politician. In fact, if humans want to survive in the far future (provide safety to an extreme) then they will most likely have to create a global governing AI if only to monitor our intake of information and actions.
I am transhumanist and fully support that idea.
I do not think the safety of humanity should be left in our hands for much longer.

I also support the idea of finding ways to improve humans genetically, and to stop the process of aging.

The only line I draw is replacing functional parts of humans with enhanced parts unless it has some kind of major positive impact. I consider that a 'partially but permanent' solution, which sounds like something to regret.

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]
The notion of transhuman singularity denotes a moment when an AI that is smarter than us is created, and as such it can self-improve, so the first AI generation would make an even smarter AI second generation and so and so on, probably ad infinitum, to the point where we ourselves will become the equivalent of what bacteria is to us. It is kind of scary when you think about it, but in case of a friendly AI the future certainly looks very very bright for us, as it will probably be possible during our lifetime given the fact that most predictions say that this kind of technology will be available to us in about 30 years.

ksire_68

Sounds like something straight out of MGS.

Look, i'd hate to sound like a pretentious douche, but can someone please contribute to this discussion, ask a question or make a point instead of a witty remark?

I'd want to get robot arms with a built-in grappling hook and sword.

I'd be like Bionic Commando crossed with a guy with a sword in his arm.

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]
The notion of transhuman singularity denotes a moment when an AI that is smarter than us is created, and as such it can self-improve, so the first AI generation would make an even smarter AI second generation and so and so on, probably ad infinitum, to the point where we ourselves will become the equivalent of what bacteria is to us. It is kind of scary when you think about it, but in case of a friendly AI the future certainly looks very very bright for us, as it will probably be possible during our lifetime given the fact that most predictions say that this kind of technology will be available to us in about 30 years.

ksire_68

Sounds like something straight out of MGS.

I do believe a higher form of intelligence than us would be more trustworthy than any politician. In fact, if humans want to survive in the far future (provide safety to an extreme) then they will most likely have to create a global governing AI if only to monitor our intake of information and actions.
I am transhumanist and fully support that idea.
I do not think the safety of humanity should be left in our hands for much longer.

I also support the idea of finding ways to improve humans genetically, and to stop the process of aging.

The only line I draw is replacing functional parts of humans with enhanced parts unless it has some kind of major positive impact. I consider that a 'partially but permanent' solution, which sounds like something to regret.

KungfuKitten

OP 'i just played deus ex hr'Firebird-5

[QUOTE="ksire_68"]

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]
The notion of transhuman singularity denotes a moment when an AI that is smarter than us is created, and as such it can self-improve, so the first AI generation would make an even smarter AI second generation and so and so on, probably ad infinitum, to the point where we ourselves will become the equivalent of what bacteria is to us. It is kind of scary when you think about it, but in case of a friendly AI the future certainly looks very very bright for us, as it will probably be possible during our lifetime given the fact that most predictions say that this kind of technology will be available to us in about 30 years.

Stavrogin_

Sounds like something straight out of MGS.

Look, i'd hate to sound like a pretentious douche, but can someone please contribute to this discussion, ask a question or make a point instead of a witty remark?

I feel for you, so why not. Whatever the movement, the actual distance technologically from such a capability, never mind CHOICE, is vast. I think the issue with many "singularity" models are that they ignore what people WILL do, compared to what they CAN do. The first person who gets their "wetware" hacked is going to start a worldwide movement to abolish the tech, assuming that ever happens. You describe two major challenges, one is creating a meaningful AI (which is frankly as distant as ever), and understanding the human brain so well that we can "link" it effectively.

I have serious doubts that either will occur, and if they do it will be LONG and slow process with many intermediate steps during which I suspect people will find they have issues with brain-computer-brain interaction. Technological singularty theory also generally means an end to humanity as a useful element of the world... I don't see that ending in a term from Deus Ex, just ending humanity.

"The AI does not hate you, nor does it love you, but you are made out of atoms which it can use for something else." (Eliezer Yudkowsky)

illuminati.

I never asked for this.

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"]

[QUOTE="ksire_68"]

Sounds like something straight out of MGS.

Frame_Dragger

That's why i also believe 30 years or so is a realistic number. Technological advancement doesn't have to go way, though. There is a logical but not a necessary link between transhumanism and AI. Integration with nanotechnology is the other way to go, albeit it's a much harder process because if we're being realistic here, the human body is an evolutionary work that is not designed to live more than 30-40 years. The reasons for this are deep and systemic, and without completely rearranging the entire genetic make up, to the point at which rearranged "human" would be far from what we consider to be a human, radical changes are not possible. So it's more likely that we will develop AI that at worst, will just be an electronic equivalent of the human brain. Once this level is reached, this AI can (only) advance with a pace unimaginable for us. Nice eh?

Most computers (heck most refrigerators) are smarter than the majority of people I have to deal with. So as far as I'm concerned the machines have already won. Stupid people are stupid, and abundant.

[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]

I do believe a higher form of intelligence than us would be more trustworthy than any politician. In fact, if humans want to survive in the far future (provide safety to an extreme) then they will most likely have to create a global governing AI if only to monitor our intake of information and actions.
I am transhumanist and fully support that idea.
I do not think the safety of humanity should be left in our hands for much longer.

I also support the idea of finding ways to improve humans genetically, and to stop the process of aging.

The only line I draw is replacing functional parts of humans with enhanced parts unless it has some kind of major positive impact. I consider that a 'partially but permanent' solution, which sounds like something to regret.

Stavrogin_

^I share your pessimism towards humanity, for every brilliant mind there are a million dumbasses. Mediocrity everywhere... Great, i sound like a pretentious douche again. :)

A higher form of intelligence would be more trustworthy only if it's friendly towards us, but the real question is, why should it be? Why should an AI that's much more smarter than us abide us or follow the social constructs as morality. Why do good? What's good for us isn't necessarily good for it.

But as i said before, predicting what will happen after the singularity is foolish, we just can't know for sure.

[QUOTE="Frame_Dragger"]

[QUOTE="Stavrogin_"] I wouldn't know, i haven't played it. :)

Look, i'd hate to sound like a pretentious douche, but can someone please contribute to this discussion, ask a question or make a point instead of a witty remark?

Stavrogin_

That's why i also believe 30 years or so is a realistic number. Technological advancement doesn't have to go way, though. There is a logical but not a necessary link between transhumanism and AI. Integration with nanotechnology is the other way to go, albeit it's a much harder process because if we're being realistic here, the human body is an evolutionary work that is not designed to live more than 30-40 years. The reasons for this are deep and systemic, and without completely rearranging the entire genetic make up, to the point at which rearranged "human" would be far from what we consider to be a human, radical changes are not possible. So it's more likely that we will develop AI that at worst, will just be an electronic equivalent of the human brain. Once this level is reached, this AI can (only) advance with a pace unimaginable for us. Nice eh?

I'm skeptical because of the science I know, which includes knowing that there is nothing that anyone would call a "brain machine". Being able to move a cursor with training is not the same as properly interfacing with the brain, or even interpreting thoughts. Your points seem more aspirational than realistic; nothing in current computer science or human-machine interface even REMOTELY points to a 30 year mark as being close to what you describe. First, you'd need a far better integrated circuit which is going to require a new substrate. Lots of promising materials, and none of them are even CLOSE to mass production.

You need more than the crude ability to hook up an EEG and match the trace when someone thinks, "UP", "DOWN" etc... and then tell a computer to act on that. As for AI, it's as far away as it's ever been; just look at the 'Go' problem. We make computers that better mimic intelligence in VERY restricted circumstances, but it's an illusion that is far from the reality of a thinking machine. It would be realistic to hope that something better than the Monte Carlo system could play 'Go' in 30 years... maybe. It's also possible that the "cocktail part problem" for voice recognition will be handled by then, but the very fact that we have to do so much to get a computer to exist within its narrow range of capcity pretty much kiklls your argument.;

I don't mean this to cause offense, but what I'm reading in your post is a lot of pop-sci concetps that are divorced from the real worl challenges which stand in their way, the current state of the art, and what is required to move that forward. There's nothing wrong with dreaming, but if you want to take it beyond a personal fantasy you have a LOT to learn.

Deus Ex covered this. It's a bad idea!!!

Humans wont be humans forever. It's been covered by philosophers again and again. What the future holds for us is anyone guess. Ambitious people will collaborate and do what they think is in our best interest(or theirs). Progress is neutral and indifferent. Even if we evolved into slimes to deal with some change in our environment. That would still be progress. But a conscious human being would never want to be a slime. And see it as some form of DE-evolution or regression.Zhuobi

Transhumanism, often abbreviated as H+ or h+, is an international intellectual and cultural movement that affirms the possibility and desirability of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to eliminate aging and to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.Stavrogin_

While I'm not convinced that merging with technology is desirable, I think that to some degree it's a potentially good idea. However, NOT in the current economic and political system. It could marginalize even more people - especially those who would not have the means to afford it, and it could possibly be used against us.

Most computers (heck most refrigerators) are smarter than the majority of people I have to deal with. So as far as I'm concerned the machines have already won. Stupid people are stupid, and abundant.

Cactus_Matt

Reminds me of Deus Ex...I don't know if I want a chip in my brain, but many of the augmentations in the game seem pretty cool.

One of them allows you to jump from any height and not take any damage.

They will not stop us

I never asked for this.

Reminds me of Deus Ex...I don't know if I want a chip in my brain, but many of the augmentations in the game seem pretty cool.

One of them allows you to jump from any height and not take any damage.

Transhumanish might sound like a good idea on paper, until you realize that it would only benefite those with wealth. That works out wonderfully for folks like Ray Kurzweil. Not so wonderfully for the rest of us though.

(*Of course this all rests on the premise that it's more than simply a sci-fi pipe dream at this point.)

Transhumanish might sound like a good idea on paper, until you realize that it would only benefite those with wealth. That works out wonderfully for folks like Ray Kurzweil. Not so wonderfully for the rest of us though.

(*Of course this all rests on the premise that it's more than simply a sci-fi pipe dream at this point.)

Look, i'd hate to sound like a pretentious douche

Stavrogin_

Transhumanism, often abbreviated as H+ or h+, is an international intellectual and cultural movement that affirms the possibility and desirability of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to eliminate aging and to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.

That's the short definition from wikipedia. To explain it simply, transhumanism in the broadest sense of the term implies the advancement of the human race in all possible domains (physical, intellectual and so on). This would be solely possible by the means of a scientific and technological progress, which really isn't something new, taking into account the technological advancement in the last 3-4 millennia, not that there was no technology much earlier, but it is difficult to compare the "technology" of the stone age and the one of the bronze age.

This progress would look quite different in various fields, for example: in biomedical sciences it would mean health improvement and life extension, in the field of AI the building intelligent machines, in neuroscience the development of cognitive enhancers, in genetics would mean redesigning the human genome etc etc.

The notion of transhuman singularity denotes a moment when an AI that is smarter than us is created, and as such it can self-improve, so the first AI generation would make an even smarter AI second generation and so and so on, probably ad infinitum, to the point where we ourselves will become the equivalent of what bacteria is to us. It is kind of scary when you think about it, but in case of a friendly AI the future certainly looks very very bright for us, as it will probably be possible during our lifetime given the fact that most predictions say that this kind of technology will be available to us in about 30 years.


Discuss... :)

Stavrogin_

this sounds like the beginning of every nightmarish science fiction book. at what point after transhumanism is the butlerian jihad waged?Kh1ndjal

I really doubt we will have this kind of technology in our lifetimes but the idea of it is interesting

After playing Deus Ex I can firmly say I am against Transhumanism no matter how good it could be.

No thank you. Some guy would get in his mind to write some code to make the computer evil just for laughs, then when he realised his mistake it would be too late and the computers would kill us all.

Basically Ghost in the Shell ideas?