UFC/MMA: Highly skilled martial artists, or bloodsport street-brawling thuggery?

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BMD004

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#1 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

What is your perception of the UFC? Be honest.

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JML897

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#2 JML897
Member since 2004 • 33134 Posts
It's obviously a highly-skilled contest, anyone who says otherwise doesn't really know much about the sport.
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Palantas

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#3 Palantas
Member since 2002 • 15329 Posts

Does Tank Abbott still fight? That might affect my answer.

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Fightingfan

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#4 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
UFC? Pointless a sports division that originated in Vegas can't be legit.
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-Big_Red-

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#5 -Big_Red-
Member since 2006 • 7230 Posts
Highly skilled martial arts contest. Though some of them like Warmachine are kind of thuggish.
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BMD004

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#6 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

Does Tank Abbott still fight? That might affect my answer.

Palantas
Lol.. I'm talking about in general.
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Alter_Echo

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#7 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts

Tank destroying John Matua back in 96 is still in my top 5 favorite MMA moments. Dude just went out like a sack of bricks. Brutal and uncomfortable to watch.

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BMD004

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#8 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts
UFC? Pointless a sports division that originated in Vegas can't be legit.Fightingfan
Where are you getting that it originated in Vegas?
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LoG-Sacrament

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#9 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts
its as legitimate a sport as boxing or soccer. as the sport progresses, brawlers are less and less effective so that best fighters tend to be ones that not only do a lot of athletic training but learn techniques and skills as well. they arent doctors or anything, but theyre real athletes.
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BMD004

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#10 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

Tank destroying John Matua back in 96 is still in my top 5 favorite MMA moments. Dude just went out like a sack of bricks. Brutal and uncomfortable to watch.

Alter_Echo
I hated Tank. I loved when a super young Vitor Belfort who was out-weighed by like 50 pounds put Tank in his place with a TKO.
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Palantas

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#11 Palantas
Member since 2002 • 15329 Posts

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]UFC? Pointless a sports division that originated in Vegas can't be legit.BMD004
Where are you getting that it originated in Vegas?

I thought it basically originated in Brazil, though I wouldn't put money on that.

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1bigsmoke55

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#12 1bigsmoke55
Member since 2007 • 6856 Posts
Vitor is cool.
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HaloReachGOTY

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#13 HaloReachGOTY
Member since 2010 • 786 Posts

its the year 2011. anybody who still thinks the UFC/other MMA orgs are just human cockfighting then they are insane

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LoG-Sacrament

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#14 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"]UFC? Pointless a sports division that originated in Vegas can't be legit.Palantas

Where are you getting that it originated in Vegas?

I thought it basically originated in Brazil, though I wouldn't put money on that.

one of gracies started it in the usa (with american funding) somewhere to show off jiu jitsu. i dont remember if it was vegas or not though. i remember he wanted to surround the cage with shark tanks but that idea was scrapped :P
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HaloReachGOTY

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#15 HaloReachGOTY
Member since 2010 • 786 Posts

Vitor is cool.1bigsmoke55
Vitor will be the new MW champion also

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BMD004

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#16 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"]UFC? Pointless a sports division that originated in Vegas can't be legit.Palantas

Where are you getting that it originated in Vegas?

I thought it basically originated in Brazil, though I wouldn't put money on that.

Yeah, it was started by Art Davies (entrepreneuer from southern California) and Rorion Gracie (Brazilian martial artist). They also had the help of WOW promotions out of Southern California, and the first ever UFC was in Broomfield, Colorado. So it was basically started in California by a Brazilian, and the first event was in Colorado. It had nothing to do with Vegas until it was bought by Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta like 10 years ago.
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frostybanana

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#17 frostybanana
Member since 2010 • 5523 Posts
Lol, thuggery? That's a funny word. Anyways, I watch it on rare occasions, but it's not something I'm really into. It's a little too grapple-heavy for my taste.
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SickBoy724

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#18 SickBoy724
Member since 2009 • 364 Posts

I'd say most of those fighters and highly skilled martial artists, but there are a few that seem to do it for the bloodsport. Some of those guys are just thugs on the outside of the ring as they are on the inside *cough*nate diaz*cough*

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Alter_Echo

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#19 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts
[QUOTE="Alter_Echo"]

Tank destroying John Matua back in 96 is still in my top 5 favorite MMA moments. Dude just went out like a sack of bricks. Brutal and uncomfortable to watch.

BMD004
I hated Tank. I loved when a super young Vitor Belfort who was out-weighed by like 50 pounds put Tank in his place with a TKO.

I don't like him either. Its just a really solid and entertaining KO. I still cant figure out how he went 3 fights deep a few times back when the UFC used the elimination format with how out of shape he always was.
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slithermgs4

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#20 slithermgs4
Member since 2006 • 396 Posts
the guy's of the UFC are the best of the best, often times they devote a great portion of their live' s to get to such a high level of competition. they are also tremendous athletes with a level of conditioning that surpasses most sport's
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BMD004

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#21 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

[QUOTE="1bigsmoke55"]Vitor is cool.HaloReachGOTY

Vitor will be the new MW champion also

Hopefully not. As much as I love Vitor, Dana White said that if Anderson beats Vitor, and GSP beats Jake Shields, then Anderson Silva and Georges St-Pierre will have a middleweight superfight sometime in 2011. I've been wanting that fight for a LONG time. Hopefully it can finally happen since Dana White seems serious about it this time.
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BMD004

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#22 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

I'd say most of those fighters and highly skilled martial artists, but there are a few that seem to do it for the bloodsport. Some of those guys are just thugs on the outside of the ring as they are on the inside *cough*nate diaz*cough*

SickBoy724
Except Nick and Nate Diaz are highly skilled black and brown belts under Caesar Gracie. They may be "thugs", but mainly they are highly-skilled martial artist with a thuggish personality.
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HaloReachGOTY

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#23 HaloReachGOTY
Member since 2010 • 786 Posts

[QUOTE="HaloReachGOTY"]

[QUOTE="1bigsmoke55"]Vitor is cool.BMD004

Vitor will be the new MW champion also

Hopefully not. As much as I love Vitor, Dana White said that if Anderson beats Vitor, and GSP beats Jake Shields, then Anderson Silva and Georges St-Pierre will have a middleweight superfight sometime in 2011. I've been wanting that fight for a LONG time. Hopefully it can finally happen since Dana White seems serious about it this time.

true, i would rather have GSP destroy silva rather then vitor. but thats so lame. say silva loses to vitor. and GSP wins. shouldnt GSP have to move up anyways? he should still get the chance to fight silva for his first MW fight. then fight the MW champ. i doubt dana white will pass on that fight if silva loses. thats a mega fight that can break records if the rest of the card is good. it can beat UFC 100.

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BMD004

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#24 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="HaloReachGOTY"]Vitor will be the new MW champion also

HaloReachGOTY

Hopefully not. As much as I love Vitor, Dana White said that if Anderson beats Vitor, and GSP beats Jake Shields, then Anderson Silva and Georges St-Pierre will have a middleweight superfight sometime in 2011. I've been wanting that fight for a LONG time. Hopefully it can finally happen since Dana White seems serious about it this time.

true, i would rather have GSP destroy silva rather then vitor. but thats so lame. say silva loses to vitor. and GSP wins. shouldnt GSP have to move up anyways? he should still get the chance to fight silva for his first MW fight. then fight the MW champ. i doubt dana white will pass on that fight if silva loses. thats a mega fight that can break records if the rest of the card is good. it can beat UFC 100.

Yeah, but if Silva is coming off of a loss, then the super fight kind of loses it's appeal. Anderson wouldn't be the #1 or #2 P4P fighters in the world anymore. The reason this fight could be so huge is that GSP and Anderson are the #1 and #2 pound-for-pound fighters in the world. You want them to both fight when they are both red-hot and still #1 and #2 in the world. That is what would make the fight so special.
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HoolaHoopMan

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#25 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts
They're easily some of the best athletes out there. To say otherwise is to show you really know nothing about MMA.
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SickBoy724

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#26 SickBoy724
Member since 2009 • 364 Posts

[QUOTE="SickBoy724"]

I'd say most of those fighters and highly skilled martial artists, but there are a few that seem to do it for the bloodsport. Some of those guys are just thugs on the outside of the ring as they are on the inside *cough*nate diaz*cough*

BMD004

Except Nick and Nate Diaz are highly skilled black and brown belts under Caesar Gracie. They may be "thugs", but mainly they are highly-skilled martial artist with a thuggish personality.

Fighting style, no. Motives for being the ring, probably thuggish.

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LoG-Sacrament

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#27 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts
[QUOTE="HaloReachGOTY"]

[QUOTE="1bigsmoke55"]Vitor is cool.BMD004

Vitor will be the new MW champion also

Hopefully not. As much as I love Vitor, Dana White said that if Anderson beats Vitor, and GSP beats Jake Shields, then Anderson Silva and Georges St-Pierre will have a middleweight superfight sometime in 2011. I've been wanting that fight for a LONG time. Hopefully it can finally happen since Dana White seems serious about it this time.

i can dream, but ill believe the ufc has came through on that matchup when i see it.
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the_ChEeSe_mAn2

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#28 the_ChEeSe_mAn2
Member since 2003 • 8463 Posts
I thought it was a thug and blood sport until I saw some high-quality fights. As a martial arts practitioner, I was impressed and started watching UFC more closely, starting with the UFC reality show (watched all seasons).
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BMD004

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#29 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts
I thought it was a thug and blood sport until I saw some high-quality fights. As a martial arts practitioner, I was impressed and started watching UFC more closely, starting with the UFC reality show (watched all seasons).the_ChEeSe_mAn2
Yeah... I think the problem many people have with the UFC fighters is that a lot of them don't embody the essence of "true martial arts". People expect them to be quiet, humble, respectful, etc. However, a lot of times this isn't the case. Most of them do show a great deal of respect for their opponent, though. But still, people see that a lot of them are cocky and brash and like to party like on the show "The Ultimate Fighter", and don't think of those people as martial artists. Outside of the ring, perhaps a lot of them don't embody the spirit of martial arts. But inside the ring/octagon, they are highly-skilled martial artists. But that is the thing about the sport... there are the loud mouth brash "Kobra Kai" types, and there are also the quiet, humble Karate Kid types. You can pick and choose the types of fighters you like, but the sport itself encompasses a high level of martial arts skill. /rant... btw that wasn't directed at you... it was just a thought I had directed at the thread in general.
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arad96

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#30 arad96
Member since 2009 • 7783 Posts

I have mixed feelings. Some fighters are great and awesome. Although I have seen some fighters that fail. They are just street fighting.

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rawsavon

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#31 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

Does Tank Abbott still fight? That might affect my answer.

Palantas
Kimbo still does
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BMD004

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#32 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts
[QUOTE="Palantas"]

Does Tank Abbott still fight? That might affect my answer.

rawsavon
Kimbo still does

Kimbo doesn't still fight. Neither does Tank.
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BMD004

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#33 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

I have mixed feelings. Some fighters are great and awesome. Although I have seen some fighters that fail. They are just street fighting.

arad96
There are no fighters in the UFC who are just "street fighting". Every single one of them has had martial arts training. This is 2011, not 1993.
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rawsavon

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#34 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Palantas"]

Does Tank Abbott still fight? That might affect my answer.

BMD004
Kimbo still does

Kimbo doesn't still fight. Neither does Tank.

He fought within the last year...they are like boxers (never really seem to be done)
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BMD004

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#35 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] Kimbo still does

Kimbo doesn't still fight. Neither does Tank.

He fought within the last year...they are like boxers (never really seem to be done)

Kimbo isn't fighting in MMA anymore. He was cut from the UFC and is not signed anywhere else. He is a professional wrestler in Japan now and is getting more into acting. He thought about getting into boxing.
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rawsavon

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#36 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="BMD004"] Kimbo doesn't still fight. Neither does Tank.

He fought within the last year...they are like boxers (never really seem to be done)

Kimbo isn't fighting in MMA anymore. He was cut from the UFC and is not signed anywhere else. He is a professional wrestler in Japan now and is getting more into acting. He thought about getting into boxing.

But having a prominent example of someone that fought in major, promoted fights at the highest level (UFC) shows that not all MMA'ers are 'highly skilled martial artists' as you say. Most are these days...but certainly not all
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BMD004

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#37 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] He fought within the last year...they are like boxers (never really seem to be done)

Kimbo isn't fighting in MMA anymore. He was cut from the UFC and is not signed anywhere else. He is a professional wrestler in Japan now and is getting more into acting. He thought about getting into boxing.

But having a prominent example of someone that fought in major, promoted fights at the highest level (UFC) shows that not all MMA'ers are 'highly skilled martial artists' as you say. Most are these days...but certainly not all

He's still highly skilled. He couldn't cut it in the UFC, but he was a bouncer, a bodyguard, and trained in boxing. And before he got into MMA, he trained with MMA legend Bas Rutten, his cousin Rhadi Ferguson who is a black belt and Olympian in Judo and a black belt in BJJ, as well as training at American Top Team. He is skilled as a fighter.
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rawsavon

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#38 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="BMD004"] Kimbo isn't fighting in MMA anymore. He was cut from the UFC and is not signed anywhere else. He is a professional wrestler in Japan now and is getting more into acting. He thought about getting into boxing.

But having a prominent example of someone that fought in major, promoted fights at the highest level (UFC) shows that not all MMA'ers are 'highly skilled martial artists' as you say. Most are these days...but certainly not all

He's still highly skilled. He couldn't cut it in the UFC, but he was a bouncer, a bodyguard, and trained in boxing. And before he got into MMA, he trained with MMA legend Bas Rutten, his cousin Rhadi Ferguson who is a black belt and Olympian in Judo and a black belt in BJJ, as well as training at American Top Team. He is skilled as a fighter.

Your OP and thread title say 'skilled martial artist'. He might train to some degree in various martial arts, but he is not a 'skilled' martial artist (unless you say anyone that trains is). ...and NO, I will not pm you my address
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HaloReachGOTY

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#39 HaloReachGOTY
Member since 2010 • 786 Posts

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] But having a prominent example of someone that fought in major, promoted fights at the highest level (UFC) shows that not all MMA'ers are 'highly skilled martial artists' as you say. Most are these days...but certainly not allrawsavon
He's still highly skilled. He couldn't cut it in the UFC, but he was a bouncer, a bodyguard, and trained in boxing. And before he got into MMA, he trained with MMA legend Bas Rutten, his cousin Rhadi Ferguson who is a black belt and Olympian in Judo and a black belt in BJJ, as well as training at American Top Team. He is skilled as a fighter.

Your OP and thread title say 'skilled martial artist'. He might train to some degree in various martial arts, but he is not a 'skilled' martial artist (unless you say anyone that trains is). ...and NO, I will not pm you my address

lawlz...this is hilarious. though i doubt BMD004 is the one who actually said that. doesnt seem like him

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BMD004

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#40 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] But having a prominent example of someone that fought in major, promoted fights at the highest level (UFC) shows that not all MMA'ers are 'highly skilled martial artists' as you say. Most are these days...but certainly not allrawsavon
He's still highly skilled. He couldn't cut it in the UFC, but he was a bouncer, a bodyguard, and trained in boxing. And before he got into MMA, he trained with MMA legend Bas Rutten, his cousin Rhadi Ferguson who is a black belt and Olympian in Judo and a black belt in BJJ, as well as training at American Top Team. He is skilled as a fighter.

Your OP and thread title say 'skilled martial artist'. He might train to some degree in various martial arts, but he is not a 'skilled' martial artist (unless you say anyone that trains is). ...and NO, I will not pm you my address

Kimbo has trained in boxing for a long time. How do you think he won all of those street fights on youtube? Then when he wanted to get serious about competing in MMA, he trained at American Top Team. He is a skilled martial artist.

And wtf lol... bmd000 is not me. Somebody was obviously trying to imitate me for some reason unknown to me. Think about it... why would I make a username almost exactly like my current one, then talk a bunch of crap? Why wouldn't I just do it (if I really wanted to) with my current name? Or with a name that wouldn't draw attention to my username (bmd004)?

It just makes no sense and it was obviously somebody trolling.

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rawsavon

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#41 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
BMD004
We can settle this pretty quickly: Do you think Kimbo is a skilled martial artist...just a simple Yes or No (no qualification/justification)
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BMD004

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#42 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts
[QUOTE="BMD004"]rawsavon
We can settle this pretty quickly: Do you think Kimbo is a skilled martial artist...just a simple Yes or No (no qualification/justification)

Yes.
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Treflis

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#43 Treflis
Member since 2004 • 13757 Posts
To be honest, it is actually the second one only with some rules and a judge making sure they're followed. Because they do fight eachother in a similar manner as they would in say, a parking lot. Only they had trained and studied their martial art for years and have such fight experiences under their belt then..say two drunk guys fighting for the fifth time in their life. So In all honest, it's a mixture of option 1 and Option 2 in the poll.
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sonofsmeagle

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#44 sonofsmeagle
Member since 2010 • 4317 Posts

Well 1st of all i think that UFC and MMA does involve highly skilled Mixed Martial arts but more than half the fighters in the UFC are not martial artists and not fighters.

Like you take for example Lyoto Machida he is both a fighter and a True Martial Artist, he was trained in the arts of Karate PROPERLEY at the age of 3 onwards and later trained in BJJ and Sumo, he was never some college athlete that was good at wrestling or some football player that thought they were big enough to get into fighting.

Lyoto Machida is a true martial artist, So is Anderson Silva, So is Shogun Rua, So is Fedor Emelianenko.

Then you have the Fighters of the sport that have trianed in many areas of the sport but never fully mastered elements of it and become masters in them like Lyoto is with Karate or Fedor is with Sambo fighters like this are Rampage Jackson,Forrest Griffin ect.

With all that said i respect all their fighting styl** and techniques and they are all Mixed Martail Artists.

However i know i am going to get booood for this by some people but the people in MMA that just Wrestle to get to the top are not true MMA fighters, fighters that come to mind are Rashad Evans, in his last to fights he has one a descision by essentially taking his opponent to the ground and hugging them for 5 minutes each round. This does not take much skill just Athleticism and i know its a part of the MMA system but when wrestlers take their opponents to the ground and just do nothing with them its disgraceful.

With all that said i just want to say i have been a devote lover of the sport and i'm a hardcore fan i have watched MMA since 1998 and tho the UFC is awesome i preferred Pride in some ways.

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rawsavon

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#45 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="BMD004"]BMD004
We can settle this pretty quickly: Do you think Kimbo is a skilled martial artist...just a simple Yes or No (no qualification/justification)

Yes.

Then I believe we are done. Either one of two things is happening: 1. If you rank Kimbo as a skilled martial artist (where is obviously just a little better than a novice...like most that have only been training for that amount of time), then you don't know your stuff (as evidenced by the way he fought in UFC, the Ultimate fighter, and on those free fights on NBC) If this is the case, then why would I continue to have this conversation. ***But I do not believe this to be the case*** I think you know your stuff quite well...which is the reason I entered the thread. 2. You are not able to give an opinion that is free from your personal bias. It seems from your posts in every one of these threads that you have intense need/desire to defend MMA. There is nothing wrong with that...but I don't operate on such black and white terms. It is not fun for me to have those types of conversations. The same thing holds true with sports debates. There are people that do not want to admit the negatives about their school/team and/or everything is either black and white. Those styles of debate do not interest me.
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-Big_Red-

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#46 -Big_Red-
Member since 2006 • 7230 Posts

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="BMD004"] He's still highly skilled. He couldn't cut it in the UFC, but he was a bouncer, a bodyguard, and trained in boxing. And before he got into MMA, he trained with MMA legend Bas Rutten, his cousin Rhadi Ferguson who is a black belt and Olympian in Judo and a black belt in BJJ, as well as training at American Top Team. He is skilled as a fighter. HaloReachGOTY

Your OP and thread title say 'skilled martial artist'. He might train to some degree in various martial arts, but he is not a 'skilled' martial artist (unless you say anyone that trains is). ...and NO, I will not pm you my address

lawlz...this is hilarious. though i doubt BMD004 is the one who actually said that. doesnt seem like him

Yeah, I like to think the BMD004 would be smart enough to not use a username so similar to his.
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Alter_Echo

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#47 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts
[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="BMD004"]BMD004
We can settle this pretty quickly: Do you think Kimbo is a skilled martial artist...just a simple Yes or No (no qualification/justification)

Yes.

He got man handled by Sean Gannon and was destroyed in 14 seconds by pretty much the worst professional MMA has to offer. And even one of the wins he DOES have was controversial. Not saying i could beat his ass but i could go to any random bar in town and find 5 guys in less than an hour that could. He is average at best.
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BluRayHiDef

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#48 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

MMA fighters are genuine skilled martial artists. Just look at Rampage. Go to 2:25 of this video.

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rawsavon

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#49 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

MMA fighters are genuine skilled martial artists. Just look at Rampage. Go to 2:25 of this video.

BluRayHiDef
That was an excellent brawler montage
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BluRayHiDef

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#50 BluRayHiDef
Member since 2009 • 10839 Posts

[QUOTE="BluRayHiDef"]

MMA fighters are genuine skilled martial artists. Just look at Rampage. Go to 2:25 of this video.

rawsavon

That was an excellent brawler montage

Who's BluRayHiDark?