Uh oh- This can't be good-Supreme Court Justice predicts "terrible conflict

Former Judge Robert Bork has warned that a terrible legal conflict may ensue over Religious Freedom. He points to two scenarios. Scenario one is that Catholic Hospitals would be forced to perform abortions (Legal Advisers to the US bishops have warned that the Freedom of Choice Act could do such a thing if it passes, many bishops have said they would be forced to shut down their hospitals if that is the case). Scenario two is that Catholic Adoption agencies may be forced to give kids to gay couples (this has happened in England, some adoption centers have shut down as a result).

He said however that the "free exercise of Religion clause" may make such things unconstitutional, but how will the Supreme Court Rule on this? He thinks it will be 5-4, but he's not sure what they will rule, saying it all depends on Kennedy the one moderate on the Supreme Court.

On a side note I've been getting bad vibes recently about the Obama Adminstrations relationship with the Church: Cardinal Pio Laghi, the first Apostolic Nuncio to the U.S recently died, Obama was Inaugurated on the Feast day Of St. Sebastian the Martyr, and Today is the Feast of St. Agnes, Patroness of "Christian Virtue in a hostile political and social environment".

On a side note I've been getting bad vibes recently about the Obama Adminstrations relationship with the Church: Cardinal Pio Laghi, the first Apostolic Nuncio to the U.S recently died, Obama was Inaugurated on the Feast day Of St. Sebastian the Martyr, and Today is the Feast of St. Agnes, Patroness of "Christian Virtue in a hostile political and social environment".

JoeRatz16

Former Judge Robert Bork has warned that a terrible legal conflict may ensue over Religious Freedom. He points to two scenarios. Scenario one is that Catholic Hospitals would be forced to perform abortions (Legal Advisers to the US bishops have warned that the Freedom of Choice Act could do such a thing if it passes, many bishops have said they would be forced to shut down their hospitals if that is the case). Scenario two is that Catholic Adoption agencies may be forced to give kids to gay couples (this has happened in England, some adoption centers have shut down as a result).

He said however that the "free exercise of Religion clause" may make such things unconstitutional, but how will the Supreme Court Rule on this? He thinks it will be 5-4, but he's not sure what they will rule, saying it all depends on Kennedy the one moderate on the Supreme Court.

On a side note I've been getting bad vibes recently about the Obama Adminstrations relationship with the Church: Cardinal Pio Laghi, the first Apostolic Nuncio to the U.S recently died, Obama was Inaugurated on the Feast day Of St. Sebastian the Martyr, and Today is the Feast of St. Agnes, Patroness of "Christian Virtue in a hostile political and social environment".

JoeRatz16

Your title needs fixing. It should say: "Uh oh- This can't be good-Supreme Court Reject predicts terrible conflict."

Everyone needs to get over themselves. It's a woman's choice, not God's choice or a man's choice (unless of course that man used to be a woman and still has the parts). It's her private business and abortions should be available everywhere. Some people use it the wrong way but most people who go through with it have a good reason.Tiefster

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]Everyone needs to get over themselves. It's a woman's choice, not God's choice or a man's choice (unless of course that man used to be a woman and still has the parts). It's her private business and abortions should be available everywhere. Some people use it the wrong way but most people who go through with it have a good reason.Mehdi1984

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]Everyone needs to get over themselves. It's a woman's choice, not God's choice or a man's choice (unless of course that man used to be a woman and still has the parts). It's her private business and abortions should be available everywhere. Some people use it the wrong way but most people who go through with it have a good reason.Mehdi1984

[QUOTE="Tiefster"]Everyone needs to get over themselves. It's a woman's choice, not God's choice or a man's choice (unless of course that man used to be a woman and still has the parts). It's her private business and abortions should be available everywhere. Some people use it the wrong way but most people who go through with it have a good reason.Mehdi1984

To a certain extent, yes. I wouldn't like the idea of kids belonging to a gay couple myself, no offense. I am not a religious person.

oh no!! abortions and gay couples adopting kids!! APOCALYPSE! :roll:

"look over there, it's an interracial gay couple burning the american flag!"

this goes beyond religion: no one should be forced to preform an abortion. if a doctor is against abortion because they feel it's wrong to kill a baby, how can you force them to do it?shoeman12

If you're not prepared to do every task a job requires, then you need to find a different career.

Does this mean that if gay marriage allowed, Catholic churches are also going to be forced to marry homosexual couples?viewtiful26

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]this goes beyond religion: no one should be forced to preform an abortion. if a doctor is against abortion because they feel it's wrong to kill a baby, how can you force them to do it?Oleg_Huzwog

If you're not prepared to do every task a job requires, then you need to find a different career.

this goes beyond religion: no one should be forced to preform an abortion. if a doctor is against abortion because they feel it's wrong to kill a baby, how can you force them to do it?shoeman12

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]this goes beyond religion: no one should be forced to preform an abortion. if a doctor is against abortion because they feel it's wrong to kill a baby, how can you force them to do it?shoeman12

If you're not prepared to do every task a job requires, then you need to find a different career.

Correct. Murder is not part of a doc's job, that's why they should have the liberty to decline. Personally, I don't see abortion as murder though.

[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"][QUOTE="Tiefster"]Everyone needs to get over themselves. It's a woman's choice, not God's choice or a man's choice (unless of course that man used to be a woman and still has the parts). It's her private business and abortions should be available everywhere. Some people use it the wrong way but most people who go through with it have a good reason.Lockedge

1. Unless the person performing the abortion is catholic or otherwise has an ethical problem with it, In which case I don't think he should be forced to perform the precedure, then I don't see how it is any of the Church's business. I don't think the decision should be made by anyone other than the parents.

2. Catholics are clearly in the wrong about adoption, as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure being in a loving homosexual family is far preferable to be in a care home.

Correct. Murder is not part of a doc's job, that's why they should have the liberty to decline. Personally, I don't see abortion as murder though.

vlin1108

Save the murder stuff for the abortion debates. The question is not about abortion being legal or not. The question is whether or not a doctor or nurse can refuse to participate in a perfectly normal, perfectly legal medical procedure.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="Mehdi1984"] It's not like the woman is taking a dump guy. She is carrying a living being inside of her. Just because you define life to start when the baby is out of the womb, doesn't mean you have to dogmatically force it upon us. If anything, these hospotials and orphanages should be allowed to choose how they run. Instead, they put the decision into the hands of the government.whipassmt

[QUOTE="vlin1108"]Correct. Murder is not part of a doc's job, that's why they should have the liberty to decline. Personally, I don't see abortion as murder though.

Oleg_Huzwog

Save the murder stuff for the abortion debates. The question is not about abortion being legal or not. The question is whether or not a doctor or nurse can refuse to participate in a perfectly normal, perfectly legal medical procedure.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"][QUOTE="vlin1108"]Correct. Murder is not part of a doc's job, that's why they should have the liberty to decline. Personally, I don't see abortion as murder though.

Lockedge

Save the murder stuff for the abortion debates. The question is not about abortion being legal or not. The question is whether or not a doctor or nurse can refuse to participate in a perfectly normal, perfectly legal medical procedure.

[QUOTE="vlin1108"]Correct. Murder is not part of a doc's job, that's why they should have the liberty to decline. Personally, I don't see abortion as murder though.

Oleg_Huzwog

Save the murder stuff for the abortion debates. The question is not about abortion being legal or not. The question is whether or not a doctor or nurse can refuse to participate in a perfectly normal, perfectly legal medical procedure.

If the doctors see it as murder then they should be able to refuse. I don't see how this isn't relevant.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

Save the murder stuff for the abortion debates. The question is not about abortion being legal or not. The question is whether or not a doctor or nurse can refuse to participate in a perfectly normal, perfectly legal medical procedure.

whipassmt

1. Unless the person performing the abortion is catholic or otherwise has an ethical problem with it, In which case I don't think he should be forced to perform the precedure, then I don't see how it is any of the Church's business. I don't think the decision should be made by anyone other than the parents.

2. Catholics are clearly in the wrong about adoption, as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure being in a loving homosexual family is far preferable to be in a care home.

_glatisant_

[QUOTE="Mehdi1984"] Look. I can go on an on about how gay marriages are an abomination. However, when it comes down to it, comparing this issue of forced murder to the ability to gain the title of "marriage" is so far separated from one another, that it's disgusting that anyone would use it to derail this discussion.Tiefster

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"][QUOTE="vlin1108"]Correct. Murder is not part of a doc's job, that's why they should have the liberty to decline. Personally, I don't see abortion as murder though.

vlin1108

Save the murder stuff for the abortion debates. The question is not about abortion being legal or not. The question is whether or not a doctor or nurse can refuse to participate in a perfectly normal, perfectly legal medical procedure.

If the doctors see it as murder then they should be able to refuse. I don't see how this isn't relevant.

[QUOTE="viewtiful26"]Does this mean that if gay marriage allowed, Catholic churches are also going to be forced to marry homosexual couples?xaos

[QUOTE="whipassmt"][QUOTE="Lockedge"] I'd preferably give the option to hospitals to decide which services to offer. With that in place, I wouldn't be too pleased for the workers inside such an institution to be able to decline based on personal comforts. They'd know what job they were getting into, and the potential jobs they'd have to do down the line.xaos

what if the Ob/gyn isn't trained in abortion, or let's say signed up only for things like child birth and cervical cancer and not for abortions?whipassmt

If they doctor is not trained in a procedure there is no way anybody is going to force them to do it. Arguing over wether a doctor would want to even give an abortion is pointless; if the Catholic hospitals were forced to allow abortions to be performed there would be someone working there that would be willing to perform the operation or somebody would be hired/assigned there to perform the abortion.

what if the Ob/gyn isn't trained in abortion, or let's say signed up only for things like child birth and cervical cancer and not for abortions?whipassmt

All professionals, regardless of field, are expected (not just permitted) to excuse themselves from doing something in which they have no training. That isn't the concern. There is absolutely no chance of any law forcing... say... a dentist into preforming an abortion.

Where things get tricky is with the support staff. If a nurse's job is to sanitize and prepare a room for a procedure, can he take into consideration the type of procedure before carrying out his task? I say no.

[QUOTE="whipassmt"]what if the Ob/gyn isn't trained in abortion, or let's say signed up only for things like child birth and cervical cancer and not for abortions?Oleg_Huzwog

All professionals, regardless of field, are expected (not just permitted) to excuse themselves from doing something in which they have no training. That isn't the concern. There is absolutely no chance of any law forcing... say... a dentist into preforming an abortion.

Where things get tricky is with the support staff. If a nurse's job is to sanitize and prepare a room for a procedure, can he take into consideration the type of procedure before carrying out his task? I say no.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

All professionals, regardless of field, are expected (not just permitted) to excuse themselves from doing something in which they have no training. That isn't the concern. There is absolutely no chance of any law forcing... say... a dentist into preforming an abortion.

Where things get tricky is with the support staff. If a nurse's job is to sanitize and prepare a room for a procedure, can he take into consideration the type of procedure before carrying out his task? I say no.

whipassmt

The worst that can happen is establishing a dangerous precedent for which nobody can be held responsible for carrying out the job they were hired to do. The hospital hired the nurse to prep the room. It didn't hire the nurse to assess every procedure and then prep the room if and only if the procedure passed the nurse's own moral test.

:lol: Wow....there are some seriously uninformed people on this debate. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.....

Listen; The only case in which a HOSPITAL would perform an abortion is when the mother's life is in immediate danger. Meaning, the mother was rushed to the hospital and it was found out that it was the fetus causing the mother harm.

Otherwise, that's why there are abortion clinics. And that's why abortion doctors really only specialize in abortions. "Normal" abortions are done there and NOT in your everyday hospital and walk-in clinics.