U.S shutdown confuses other countries...

Hey, I don't get it. Why the shutdown?

The system of yours confuses us Brits and Europeans. Shutdowns are practically impossible in a parliamentary democracies such as ours in the United Kingdom. The parliamentary system used by us and most European democracies ensures that the executive and legislature are controlled by the same party or coalition. Conceivably, a parliament could refuse to pass a budget proposed by the prime minister, but such an action would likely trigger a failure of the government and a new election.

Forgive my ignorance here, but why is this happening? Wasn't there a shutdown last year 'the fiscal cliff'? How is this different?

I understand the main argument is about health-care reform, but what exactly is 'ObamaCare' as the Republican party likes to call it? How much does it typically cost the average American for health-care insurance?

Of course I'm British and our health-care is free. Well it's paid for by the UK taxpayer, but it is essentially free to the end user if you're British. No matter what condition you have, there is no nasty bill waiting for you in my country.

Please don't argue, I'm just curious that's all.

Pretty much... Congress can't spend money when they don't have a budget, or it's a felony and they can all go to prison. 

The word "shut down" is misleading.

No healthcare is free. You pay your premiums every year but instead of seeing it come out of your banking account it is taken out of your paycheck before you see it. Either way you still pay premiums every year for health insurance, just through taxes rather then self payment or employers. Also gov'ts have to be funded. If you don't pass a bill saying where the money is going to go then that money stays put and doesn't get sent anywhere. Hence why the gov't is shut down. The gov't didn't shut down last year. The house and senate came to a last minute deal, that didn't happen this year. ferrari2001

it sounds like it just confuses you

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]No healthcare is free. You pay your premiums every year but instead of seeing it come out of your banking account it is taken out of your paycheck before you see it. Either way you still pay premiums every year for health insurance, just through taxes rather then self payment or employers. Also gov'ts have to be funded. If you don't pass a bill saying where the money is going to go then that money stays put and doesn't get sent anywhere. Hence why the gov't is shut down. The gov't didn't shut down last year. The house and senate came to a last minute deal, that didn't happen this year. Ninja-Hippo

No healthcare is free. You pay your premiums every year but instead of seeing it come out of your banking account it is taken out of your paycheck before you see it. Either way you still pay premiums every year for health insurance, just through taxes rather then self payment or employers. Also gov'ts have to be funded. If you don't pass a bill saying where the money is going to go then that money stays put and doesn't get sent anywhere. Hence why the gov't is shut down. The gov't didn't shut down last year. The house and senate came to a last minute deal, that didn't happen this year. ferrari2001

Hey, I don't get it. Why the shutdown?

The system of yours confuses us Brits and Europeans. Shutdowns are practically impossible in a parliamentary democracies such as ours in the United Kingdom. The parliamentary system used by us and most European democracies ensures that the executive and legislature are controlled by the same party or coalition. Conceivably, a parliament could refuse to pass a budget proposed by the prime minister, but such an action would likely trigger a failure of the government and a new election.

Forgive my ignorance here, but why is this happening? Wasn't there a shutdown last year 'the fiscal cliff'? How is this different?

I understand the main argument is about health-care reform, but what exactly is 'ObamaCare' as the Republican party likes to call it? How much does it typically cost the average American for health-care insurance?

Of course I'm British and our health-care is free. Well it's paid for by the UK taxpayer, but it is essentially free to the end user if you're British. No matter what condition you have, there is no nasty bill waiting for you in my country.

Please don't argue, I'm just curious that's all.

Bond007uk

Obummer care pretty much forces American Citizens to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. It's not free health care, and premiums are raising because of this b.s. bill. It's another way to bullsh!t the american people. 

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="ferrari2001"]No healthcare is free. You pay your premiums every year but instead of seeing it come out of your banking account it is taken out of your paycheck before you see it. Either way you still pay premiums every year for health insurance, just through taxes rather then self payment or employers. Also gov'ts have to be funded. If you don't pass a bill saying where the money is going to go then that money stays put and doesn't get sent anywhere. Hence why the gov't is shut down. The gov't didn't shut down last year. The house and senate came to a last minute deal, that didn't happen this year. BMD004

[QUOTE="BMD004"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] It's free if you're a kid, or disabled/out of work or never earn enough in your lifetime to even come close to covering the costs you receive in treatment. I get what you're saying that it's not 'free', but I've never understood why anyone feels the need to make that statement. We know it comes from taxes. It doesn't need pointing out. You're not letting out a secret.Aljosa23

well he says that it's paid for by tax's but free to the end user, except if that end user is a tax paying citizen then it wasn't free, they just already paid for it

Because "free" is not the correct word to use. Don't lie and say it's free and people won't need to point out that it isn't.

BMD004

To answer TC: Obamacare cost me $960 dollars monthly before any IRS credits - gonna "forget some things" on my tax papers due Oct 15 so I'll pretty much will get it "Free". Fightingfan

that seems like a good way to get audited

It's not just the Republicans fault here in the usa. It's also the Democrats and Obama who are at fault too.  Pretty much it's Obama's fault to begin with.

Not everyone can afford the stupid obama are. Sure the rich folks can afford it but the rest of us people can't afford wasting 400 bucks every time every month.

I'm lucky since I have Medicare or Medicaid. 

Gentlemen, I did ask you kindly not to argue and look at what you've done.

I hope when you were refering to 'free' healthcare not being 'free' you were refering to your own system. The NHS in the UK is free at point of use. We don't have to pay any health insurance. The British Health system is paid for in the same way as our other services such as the UK police, Fire Service and education system. Of course we pay via various taxes, but there isn't a health tax here per-say.

Perhaps one of you would be kind enough to answer my other question. Thanks.

[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]To answer TC: Obamacare cost me $960 dollars monthly before any IRS credits - gonna "forget some things" on my tax papers due Oct 15 so I'll pretty much will get it "Free". lostrib

that seems like a good way to get audited

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]No healthcare is free. You pay your premiums every year but instead of seeing it come out of your banking account it is taken out of your paycheck before you see it. Either way you still pay premiums every year for health insurance, just through taxes rather then self payment or employers. Also gov'ts have to be funded. If you don't pass a bill saying where the money is going to go then that money stays put and doesn't get sent anywhere. Hence why the gov't is shut down. The gov't didn't shut down last year. The house and senate came to a last minute deal, that didn't happen this year. Guppy507

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]No healthcare is free. You pay your premiums every year but instead of seeing it come out of your banking account it is taken out of your paycheck before you see it. Either way you still pay premiums every year for health insurance, just through taxes rather then self payment or employers. Also gov'ts have to be funded. If you don't pass a bill saying where the money is going to go then that money stays put and doesn't get sent anywhere. Hence why the gov't is shut down. The gov't didn't shut down last year. The house and senate came to a last minute deal, that didn't happen this year. Ninja-Hippo

Gentlemen, I did ask you kindly not to argue and look at what you've done.

I hope when you were refering to 'free' healthcare not being 'free' you were refering to your own system. The NHS in the UK is free at point of use. We don't have to pay any health insurance. The British Health system is paid for in the same way as our other services such as the UK police, Fire Service and education system. Of course we pay via various taxes, but there isn't a health tax here per-say.

Perhaps one of you would be kind enough to answer my other question. Thanks.

Bond007uk

Other countries have no debt ceilings, so theoretically they can always fund government operations via debt.

[QUOTE="Bond007uk"]

Gentlemen, I did ask you kindly not to argue and look at what you've done.

I hope when you were refering to 'free' healthcare not being 'free' you were refering to your own system. The NHS in the UK is free at point of use. We don't have to pay any health insurance. The British Health system is paid for in the same way as our other services such as the UK police, Fire Service and education system. Of course we pay via various taxes, but there isn't a health tax here per-say.

Perhaps one of you would be kind enough to answer my other question. Thanks.

genfactor

Obamacare would be fine if it did more to keep costs down by capping premium limits, does away with pre-exisiting condition rules companies use to deny treatement for such as well as rules against rejecting claims. If Obamacare was really wanting to control costs, it would not be costing the taxpayer more money. As it is, younger people are going to be paying larger premiums (and are being complained about on this forums) than older people will.  

[QUOTE="genfactor"][QUOTE="Bond007uk"]

Gentlemen, I did ask you kindly not to argue and look at what you've done.

I hope when you were refering to 'free' healthcare not being 'free' you were refering to your own system. The NHS in the UK is free at point of use. We don't have to pay any health insurance. The British Health system is paid for in the same way as our other services such as the UK police, Fire Service and education system. Of course we pay via various taxes, but there isn't a health tax here per-say.

Perhaps one of you would be kind enough to answer my other question. Thanks.

WhiteKnight77

Obamacare would be fine if it did more to keep costs down by capping premium limits, does away with pre-exisiting condition rules companies use to deny treatement for such as well as rules against rejecting claims. If Obamacare was really wanting to control costs, it would not be costing the taxpayer more money. As it is, younger people are going to be paying larger premiums (and are being complained about on this forums) than older people will.  

Hi, have you met us? We're America, and we're mighty, but sometimes we're also morons.

It's not just the Republicans fault here in the usa. It's also the Democrats and Obama who are at fault too.  

slamminjammin69

Considering the democrats have had a stranglehold on congress, and refused to pass a budget for like 4 years now, I'd say it's actually more their fault. But it's not the like the republicans are any better. They're all funded by the same people, and the "debates" between them are just a show, to keep people confused, and focused on the wrong things.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="genfactor"]The U.S. doesn't have a health care system, it has a health insurance system. Health insurance companies have been pricing many Americans out of the market, rejecting claims and treatment or discriminating against people for having pre-existing conditions (like menstruation or a sore throat) for the past few decades. If you don't have insurance in this country, you either place yourself in a position where you could go bankrupt trying to stay alive or you take your chances without care. Part of the domino effect of this is that people who get care from the emergency room without the means to pay, end up raising the premiums of people who have health insurance. Obamacare is the first serious attempt to control costs. Many Republican feel that anything done by this President is destroying the country and must be stopped by any means necessary and that includes expanding healthcare to the countries' poorest citizens. Spending is done by the legislative branch and in this country that means congress. The Republicans control the House and the Democrats control the Senate. Both sides need to draft a budget to fund the government that can pass both chambers of congress. If that happens, then it gets sent to the President to be signed into law. Many members of congressional Republicans are using this (and next the debt ceiling) as an opportunity bring back pre-existing conditions.genfactor

Obamacare would be fine if it did more to keep costs down by capping premium limits, does away with pre-exisiting condition rules companies use to deny treatement for such as well as rules against rejecting claims. If Obamacare was really wanting to control costs, it would not be costing the taxpayer more money. As it is, younger people are going to be paying larger premiums (and are being complained about on this forums) than older people will.  

That's the problem, if it fixed the things people wanted fixed instead of costing the taxpayer more, it would be a nonissue, but the Democrats do not want to do anything of the sort. They do not want to fix it much less scrap it. I think that irritates people more than anything else. People get upset when they have to pay more taxes and rightly so and Obamacare is another way to tax (they want to call it a fine) the taxpayer to pay for more social programs or expand ones that are already in place.

[QUOTE="genfactor"][QUOTE="Bond007uk"]

Gentlemen, I did ask you kindly not to argue and look at what you've done.

I hope when you were refering to 'free' healthcare not being 'free' you were refering to your own system. The NHS in the UK is free at point of use. We don't have to pay any health insurance. The British Health system is paid for in the same way as our other services such as the UK police, Fire Service and education system. Of course we pay via various taxes, but there isn't a health tax here per-say.

Perhaps one of you would be kind enough to answer my other question. Thanks.

WhiteKnight77

Obamacare would be fine if it did more to keep costs down by capping premium limits, does away with pre-exisiting condition rules companies use to deny treatement for such as well as rules against rejecting claims. If Obamacare was really wanting to control costs, it would not be costing the taxpayer more money. As it is, younger people are going to be paying larger premiums (and are being complained about on this forums) than older people will.  

 

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"][QUOTE="genfactor"] The U.S. doesn't have a health care system, it has a health insurance system. Health insurance companies have been pricing many Americans out of the market, rejecting claims and treatment or discriminating against people for having pre-existing conditions (like menstruation or a sore throat) for the past few decades. If you don't have insurance in this country, you either place yourself in a position where you could go bankrupt trying to stay alive or you take your chances without care. Part of the domino effect of this is that people who get care from the emergency room without the means to pay, end up raising the premiums of people who have health insurance. Obamacare is the first serious attempt to control costs. Many Republican feel that anything done by this President is destroying the country and must be stopped by any means necessary and that includes expanding healthcare to the countries' poorest citizens. Spending is done by the legislative branch and in this country that means congress. The Republicans control the House and the Democrats control the Senate. Both sides need to draft a budget to fund the government that can pass both chambers of congress. If that happens, then it gets sent to the President to be signed into law. Many members of congressional Republicans are using this (and next the debt ceiling) as an opportunity bring back pre-existing conditions.WilliamRLBaker

Obamacare would be fine if it did more to keep costs down by capping premium limits, does away with pre-exisiting condition rules companies use to deny treatement for such as well as rules against rejecting claims. If Obamacare was really wanting to control costs, it would not be costing the taxpayer more money. As it is, younger people are going to be paying larger premiums (and are being complained about on this forums) than older people will.  

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

Obamacare would be fine if it did more to keep costs down by capping premium limits, does away with pre-exisiting condition rules companies use to deny treatement for such as well as rules against rejecting claims. If Obamacare was really wanting to control costs, it would not be costing the taxpayer more money. As it is, younger people are going to be paying larger premiums (and are being complained about on this forums) than older people will.  

OrkHammer007

As well as the Democrats not allowing the bill to be read prior to the vote. The left forced a vote improperly and now are crying fowl about wanting it delayed even when a majority of it has been. 

[QUOTE="OrkHammer007"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] Blame the republicans... WhiteKnight77

As well as the Democrats not allowing the bill to be read prior to the vote. The left forced a vote improperly and now are crying fowl about wanting it delayed even when a majority of it has been. 

You're right, you don't get it at all.

Greatest country in the world.

Leejjohno

The best Music, Schools, Economy...Tanks.......Guns...................Women?

American "conservatism" is probably as close to evil as you can come when you're talking about established ideaologies in western countries. The repeating slogans of cynicism and unfairness makes it so obviously disgusting to any sane individual. We're talking about a group of people that don't want to pitch in and pay for the health of their countrymen but simultanously have no problem whatsoever in paying for useless military hardware on the other side of the world. The military is so important to these people but they fail to realize that it doesn't matter how high the wall around the turd is, in the end it's still a turd. jointed

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

Obamacare would be fine if it did more to keep costs down by capping premium limits, does away with pre-exisiting condition rules companies use to deny treatement for such as well as rules against rejecting claims. If Obamacare was really wanting to control costs, it would not be costing the taxpayer more money. As it is, younger people are going to be paying larger premiums (and are being complained about on this forums) than older people will.

OrkHammer007

WRONG. This majority was held up by blue dog democrats and DINO's.. Hence why people like Olympia Snowe, a Republican, was seen as a huge deal to get the bill to pass.. Unlike the Republican majority now, the democrat majority was by no means as extreme in their leanings nor did they agree with each other.. And that is the problem with the Republicans in office, they are far too extreme and any and all "moderates" have been ousted out of the party..Or had to embrace the craziness.. Hell John McCain is a POSTER child for this, pre 2000 McCain and current McCain are two completely different people..

It's just fvcking mind boggling how people can defend this behavior.. The Democrats in office are by no means blameless with numerous things, they have their own problems.. But they have not become bat sh!t crazy like the Republicans in office.. I can't believe people can even defend the Republicans in house after the sh!t they pulled with things like the debt ceiling fiasco a few years back, or the disaster relief bill for the East Coast.. '

We get it you don't like their policies, but doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to the fact they are unwilling to compromise and have done numerous futile attempts to dismantle the presidency rather than solve the country's problems. Which is the REpublican's primary goal.. ERIC CANTOR specifically stated that shortly after President Obama was elected into office for his first term! I mean this should be criminal.. We are watching a party specifically driving for the dismantling of their opponents regardless how much it harms the nation..

Hey, I don't get it. Why the shutdown?

The system of yours confuses us Brits and Europeans. Shutdowns are practically impossible in a parliamentary democracies such as ours in the United Kingdom. The parliamentary system used by us and most European democracies ensures that the executive and legislature are controlled by the same party or coalition. Conceivably, a parliament could refuse to pass a budget proposed by the prime minister, but such an action would likely trigger a failure of the government and a new election.
Bond007uk

I don't know about the UK but in some European countries, like mine Portugal, in case the budget is refused by the parliament, there's a mechanism that activates the previous year budget, so Public Sector institutions can keep spending 1/12th of the previous year budget each month. That allows the system to function until new elections are held, if needed.

Obamacare means Americans are forced to purchase health insurance (more expensive than normal) or pay thousands of dollars in fines.

It is not "free healthcare" by any stretch.

And you still get like a $14,000 deductable, meaning if the hospital hands you a $14,000 bill, it's your responsibility to pay it, beyond that, your catastrophic coverage kicks in.

If you don't pay for health insurance or the fine, they take it out of your bank account.

If you don't have enough to pay, they put a lien on your house.

There would be a mass revolt against Obamacare, except most Americans are ignorant about their finances.

 

Obamacare means Americans are forced to purchase health insurance (more expensive than normal) or pay thousands of dollars in fines.

It is not "free healthcare" by any stretch.

And you still get like a $14,000 deductable, meaning if the hospital hands you a $14,000 bill, it's your responsibility to pay it, beyond that, your catastrophic coverage kicks in.

If you don't pay for health insurance or the fine, they take it out of your bank account.

If you don't have enough to pay, they put a lien on your house.

There would be a mass revolt against Obamacare, except most Americans are ignorant about their finances.

LazySloth718

[QUOTE="LazySloth718"]

Obamacare means Americans are forced to purchase health insurance (more expensive than normal) or pay thousands of dollars in fines.

It is not "free healthcare" by any stretch.

And you still get like a $14,000 deductable, meaning if the hospital hands you a $14,000 bill, it's your responsibility to pay it, beyond that, your catastrophic coverage kicks in.

If you don't pay for health insurance or the fine, they take it out of your bank account.

If you don't have enough to pay, they put a lien on your house.

There would be a mass revolt against Obamacare, except most Americans are ignorant about their finances.

genfactor

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/

1. Everyone must get insurance or pay a "fine" which starts at %1 in 2014 and goes to %2.5 in 2016

2. The "fine" is handled by the IRS (it's a tax)

3. The IRS can loot your bank account for unpaid monies

4. The IRS can put a lien on your house for unpaid monies

5. Everybody, at every income level, will either have to buy something or pay something.

A person earning $10,000 a year will be responsible for paying %2 (about $200) of his income in insurance costs. Previously, this person would have been eligible for Medicaid and would have paid nothing for the coverage.

A person earning $40,000 a year will be responsible for paying %9 (about $3800) of his income in insurance costs. Previously, this person would either get coverage from work, or pay about that same (about $3800 a year) for private coverage.

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/7962-02.pdf

[QUOTE="genfactor"][QUOTE="LazySloth718"]

Obamacare means Americans are forced to purchase health insurance (more expensive than normal) or pay thousands of dollars in fines.

It is not "free healthcare" by any stretch.

And you still get like a $14,000 deductable, meaning if the hospital hands you a $14,000 bill, it's your responsibility to pay it, beyond that, your catastrophic coverage kicks in.

If you don't pay for health insurance or the fine, they take it out of your bank account.

If you don't have enough to pay, they put a lien on your house.

There would be a mass revolt against Obamacare, except most Americans are ignorant about their finances.

LazySloth718

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/

1. Everyone must get insurance or pay a "fine" which starts at %1 in 2014 and goes to %2.5 in 2016

2. The "fine" is handled by the IRS (it's a tax)

3. The IRS can loot your bank account for unpaid monies

4. The IRS can put a lien on your house for unpaid monies

5. Everybody, at every income level, will either have to buy something or pay something.

A person earning $10,000 a year will be responsible for paying %2 (about $200) of his income in insurance costs. Previously, this person would have been eligible for Medicaid and would have paid nothing for the coverage.

A person earning $40,000 a year will be responsible for paying %9 (about $3800) of his income in insurance costs. Previously, this person would either get coverage from work, or pay about that same (about $3800 a year) for private coverage.

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/7962-02.pdf

*sigh* The IRS can't put you in jail or place leins against you or take your pay. Language in the law expressly forbids that. People who live in states that decided to keep the medicade expansion like California or New York will still qualify now if they qualified before. If you can't afford the insurance there are exemptions and subsidies availible etc.... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/29/fact-check-ted-cruz-obamacare-health-care/2890995/ http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-myths.phpgenfactor

and if you really do your research you'll see the whole start of Obama's campaign was mostly funded by big insurance. that sounds kind of suspicious to me that now every american has to pay out big bucks to insurance.

still though, i'd rather have him in office than McCain and Palin who were all for the wealthy paying less taxes and big business getting control over everything. things don't seem much different now but who knows how bad it could've been. also, who knows what racist, sexist, liquidator Romney and Ryan may have done to the country's people.

[QUOTE="GOGOGOGURT"]

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

Greatest country in the world.

Leejjohno

The best Music, Schools, Economy...Tanks.......Guns...................Women?

I was being sarcastic. :P

So was I.

 

Obamacare means Americans are forced to purchase health insurance (more expensive than normal) or pay thousands of dollars in fines.

It is not "free healthcare" by any stretch.

And you still get like a $14,000 deductable, meaning if the hospital hands you a $14,000 bill, it's your responsibility to pay it, beyond that, your catastrophic coverage kicks in.

If you don't pay for health insurance or the fine, they take it out of your bank account.

If you don't have enough to pay, they put a lien on your house.

There would be a mass revolt against Obamacare, except most Americans are ignorant about their finances.

LazySloth718

[QUOTE="genfactor"][QUOTE="LazySloth718"]

Obamacare means Americans are forced to purchase health insurance (more expensive than normal) or pay thousands of dollars in fines.

It is not "free healthcare" by any stretch.

And you still get like a $14,000 deductable, meaning if the hospital hands you a $14,000 bill, it's your responsibility to pay it, beyond that, your catastrophic coverage kicks in.

If you don't pay for health insurance or the fine, they take it out of your bank account.

If you don't have enough to pay, they put a lien on your house.

There would be a mass revolt against Obamacare, except most Americans are ignorant about their finances.

LazySloth718

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-someone-doesnt-have-health-coverage-in-2014/

1. Everyone must get insurance or pay a "fine" which starts at %1 in 2014 and goes to %2.5 in 2016 There are many exemptions.

2. The "fine" is handled by the IRS (it's a tax)

3. The IRS can loot your bank account for unpaid monies False

4. The IRS can put a lien on your house for unpaid monies False

5. Everybody, at every income level, will either have to buy something or pay something. False

A person earning $10,000 a year will be responsible for paying %2 (about $200) of his income in insurance costs. Previously, this person would have been eligible for Medicaid and would have paid nothing for the coverage. They are still eligible for medicaid.

A person earning $40,000 a year will be responsible for paying %9 (about $3800) of his income in insurance costs. Previously, this person would either get coverage from work, or pay about that same (about $3800 a year) for private coverage. They can still get private or work coverage. Its not a set limit for cost.

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/7962-02.pdf

still though, i'd rather have him in office than McCain and Palin who were all for the wealthy paying less taxes and big business getting control over everything. things don't seem much different now but who knows how bad it could've been. also, who knows what racist, sexist, liquidator Romney and Ryan may have done to the country's people.

elessarGObonzo

Scary thought indeed.