U.S. soldiers find torture chamber in Iraq

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whipassmt

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#1 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts

Read this and you will know why the Iraqis are helping the U.S. drive al Qaeda in Iraq out of Iraq. I saw this thing on tv where Iraqis drove al Qaida out of their neighborhood and set al Qaeda used to put people into big meat grinders, these guys are awful we need to blow the crap out of al Qaeda, if we lose the war on terror this is what will be going on in the United States. Okay Here's the article

Torture center found in northern Iraq

By BRADLEY BROOKS, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - U.S. soldiers found mass graves north of Baghdad next to a torture center where chains were attached to blood-spattered walls and a metal bed frame was still connected to an electrical shock system, the military said Thursday.

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Separately, at least 13 Iraqis were killed when a suicide bomber targeted a group of people who had gathered around U.S. soldiers handing out holiday gifts northeast of Baghdad, authorities said. It was not immediately known if any soldiers were killed or wounded.

A car bomb exploded outside a liquor store in central Baghdad, killing three civilians and wounding another nine, police said.

The discoveries of the mass graves and torture center near Muqdadiyah, about 60 miles north of Baghdad, came during a Dec. 8-11 operation.

The torture center, which the U.S. military said it suspected was run by al-Qaida in Iraq, was found based on tips from Iraqis in the area, where the al-Qaida insurgents are very active. Graves containing 26 bodies were found nearby.

"We discovered several (weapons) caches, a torture facility that had chains, a bed - an iron bed that was still connected to a battery - knives and swords that were still covered in blood as we went in to go after the terrorists in that area," said Army Maj. Gen. Mark P. Hertling, the top U.S. commander in northern Iraq.

Soldiers found a total of nine caches containing a surface-to-air missile launcher, sniper rifles, 130 pounds of homemade explosives and numerous mortar tubes and rounds, among other weapons.

The operation also saw multiple battles between U.S. troops and militants, and the military said it killed 24 insurgents and detained 37 others.

Despite a nationwide decrease in violence of nearly 60 percent, Diyala province, where the torture center was found, is still turbulent - largely because the summer influx of U.S. troops in Baghdad, a freeze on activities by the Mahdi Army militia and the rise of Sunni anti-al-Qaida "awakening" groups have pushed militants into the area.

"Yes, there are still some very bad things going on in that province," Hertling said. "We are slower in coming around because ... some of the extremists have been pushed east from Anbar province as they've seen the awakening movement there and north from Baghdad as the surge operations took place there."

Hertling said, however, that the number of roadside bombings against coalition and Iraqi troops in the area had decreased between 40 percent and 50 percent since summer. He said there were 849 such attacks in November, compared with 1,698 in June.

But he also warned that al-Qaida in Iraq was still capable of massive violence.

"You know, there's going to be continued spectacular attacks," Hertling said. "We're trying, along with the Iraq army, to protect all the infrastructure of Iraq. These people who are fighting us, who are fighting the Iraqi people, continue to just destroy with no intent to contribute to what Iraq is trying to be."

In Baghdad, shops were closed and the streets were empty as people observed the Eid al-Adha holiday, which commemorates the prophet Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son for God. According to Muslim tradition, after Abraham expresses his willingness, God sends the prophet two sheep instead for slaughter.

Violence this week has been down across Iraq - even in comparison to the recent drops in attacks - perhaps as a result of the holiday. On Wednesday, only one body was found in Baghdad and there was just one reported killing.

However, 13 civilians were killed Thursday east of Baqouba, 35 miles northeast of Baghdad, when a man wearing an explosives vest blew himself up amid a crowd that had gathered around U.S. soldiers handing out holiday gifts, a local policeman said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.

It was not clear if the attack near Kanaan, a Shiite-dominated town about 13 miles east of Baqouba, killed or wounded any of the soldiers. At least 18 people were hurt in the attack.

Separately, the U.S. military said that its preliminary investigation into a Dec. 17 incident in which a Marine killed an Iraqi policeman as they manned a joint security station north of Ramadi showed both men suffered cuts during a fight. It was not clear what sparked the altercation.

The military said the Marine, who was not identified and was treated at a hospital and released after the fight, was not yet facing charges, but that the investigation was ongoing

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horgen

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#2 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127740 Posts
I'm not surprised.
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evil_dutchman90

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#3 evil_dutchman90
Member since 2005 • 993 Posts
Will you stop posting this stuff? Put it in your blog, the people who care will go and look at it there.
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whipassmt

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#4 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts
Will you stop posting this stuff? Put it in your blog, the people who care will go and look at it there.evil_dutchman90
if you don't like my threads then why do you keep going on them. what if i don't wanna put this in my bluga.
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#5 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
I think we need to clean up our own act about torture, though. We are the US and we need to lead by example. It's one thing for the rest of the world to employ gruesome tactics, but that's not what we stand for or support. I doubt any other country can justly criticize us as they have skeletons in their closets as well, but that still doesn't justify our own actions.
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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#6 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts
Are you trying to make conservative yanks look bad or what? You've been posting craplike this for quite some time now...
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obsolete2k1

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#7 obsolete2k1
Member since 2007 • 990 Posts
I'm not sure how americans can criticize others for torture when they do it themselves. Abu-Graib and american soldiers gang-raping, torturing and burning a teenage Iraqi girl... america...f*ck ya!
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SolidSnake35

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#8 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58971 Posts
I can't say I'm surprised.
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whoody12

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#9 whoody12
Member since 2004 • 4717 Posts

yay for American propaganda

don't you people remember abu ghraib ?

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Dasacant

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#10 Dasacant
Member since 2005 • 1415 Posts

yay for American propaganda

don't you people remember abu ghraib ?

whoody12
Don't even compare Abu Ghraib to to the **** that they do
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whipassmt

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#11 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts
I'm not sure how americans can criticize others for torture when they do it themselves. Abu-Graib and american soldiers gang-raping, torturing and burning a teenage Iraqi girl... america...f*ck ya! obsolete2k1
THe difference between America and Jihadis is that with the soldiers and Abu Graib these are just isolated incidents in which our soldiers get out of hand and occurs probably at most once a year. With Al Qaeda this is official policy and happens whenever al Qaeda is giving an opportunity to do something like this. And what the U.S. did is not nearly as sadistic as what these barbaric terrorists do. F'** Jihad.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#12 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="whoody12"]

yay for American propaganda

don't you people remember abu ghraib ?

Dasacant

Don't even compare Abu Ghraib to to the **** that they do

Excuse me? It can be compared because people actually died in Abu Gharib.. Now this isn't to say we are bad, but THIS IS A GOVERNMENT PEOPLE.. Not some extremist.. And what was the point of this? We are well aware that they torture people it doesn't give us the excuse that we should do the same.. Specially with incidents like Abu Gharib showing that apparently the government can't tell the difference from one arabic person to the next because the majority of the people in that prison wereinnocent or did not have any evidence to hold them.

Hell you think that is bad you should go down and look up things that happen in Africa.. Now I know thats ALOT of effort because it seems that if some one doesn't bring it up, people forget it even exists..

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#13 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="obsolete2k1"]I'm not sure how americans can criticize others for torture when they do it themselves. Abu-Graib and american soldiers gang-raping, torturing and burning a teenage Iraqi girl... america...f*ck ya! whipassmt
THe difference between America and Jihadis is that with the soldiers and Abu Graib these are just isolated incidents in which our soldiers get out of hand and occurs probably at most once a year. With Al Qaeda this is official policy and happens whenever al Qaeda is giving an opportunity to do something like this. And what the U.S. did is not nearly as sadistic as what these barbaric terrorists do. F'** Jihad.

Yes we all agree on this.. But what about torture though of the US? Its pretty entertaining that the majority pressing for it seem to be the ones who have never served in military oran intelligence agency.

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Dasacant

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#14 Dasacant
Member since 2005 • 1415 Posts
[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="whoody12"]

yay for American propaganda

don't you people remember abu ghraib ?

sSubZerOo

Don't even compare Abu Ghraib to to the **** that they do

Excuse me? It can be compared because people actually died in Abu Gharib.. Now this isn't to say we are bad, but THIS IS A GOVERNMENT PEOPLE.. Not some extremist.. And what was the point of this? We are well aware that they torture people it doesn't give us the excuse that we should do the same.. Specially with incidents like Abu Gharib showing that apparently the government can't tell the difference from one arabic person to the next because the majority of the people in that prison wereinnocent or did not have any evidence to hold them.

Hell you think that is bad you should go down and look up things that happen in Africa.. Now I know thats ALOT of effort because it seems that if some one doesn't bring it up, people forget it even exists..

Abu Graib wasn't legal, it shoulden't of happend I don't deny that but when when people say we are just as bad as what al quieda and other groups do to their prisoners, like sawing off peoples heads, it doesn't seem right but maybe thats just me.
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Mochyc

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#15 Mochyc
Member since 2007 • 4421 Posts

I didn't bother reading the whole thing, but seriously, ha-freakin'-ha, obviously there are torture chambers in iraq, it's been known since forever. I've talked to a soldier yeaaars ago, and he told me about it. But the fact to the matter, do you think america doesn't have any torture chambers? Hell yes they do, it's a war, nobody is going to act nice. If they can bomb cities and kill civilians, I think they can have torture chambers.

edit: ok, i read the whole thing, but it doesn't change anything, it's still propaganda.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#16 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="whoody12"]

yay for American propaganda

don't you people remember abu ghraib ?

Dasacant

Don't even compare Abu Ghraib to to the **** that they do

Excuse me? It can be compared because people actually died in Abu Gharib.. Now this isn't to say we are bad, but THIS IS A GOVERNMENT PEOPLE.. Not some extremist.. And what was the point of this? We are well aware that they torture people it doesn't give us the excuse that we should do the same.. Specially with incidents like Abu Gharib showing that apparently the government can't tell the difference from one arabic person to the next because the majority of the people in that prison wereinnocent or did not have any evidence to hold them.

Hell you think that is bad you should go down and look up things that happen in Africa.. Now I know thats ALOT of effort because it seems that if some one doesn't bring it up, people forget it even exists..

Abu Graib wasn't legal, it shoulden't of happend I don't deny that but when when people say we are just as bad as what al quieda and other groups do to their prisoners, like sawing off peoples heads, it doesn't seem right but maybe thats just me.

I never said they were the same, but I did say they could be compared.. And I want to point out what the hell is the shock people>? Are people surprised this kind of behavior happens or that it has to be unique? Please this has happened through out history... And Abu Gharib is questionable about whow as running it... There have been some interesting things brought up about it... Such as when the photos first came out the government actually wanted to persecute the actual new photographer there and not the perpatratiors.. Rediculous I know..

And yes I understand your sentiments, I just don't agree with the US using torture..

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Dasacant

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#17 Dasacant
Member since 2005 • 1415 Posts

I never said they were the same, but I did say they could be compared.. And I want to point out what the hell is the shock people>? Are people surprised this kind of behavior happens or that it has to be unique? Please this has happened through out history... And Abu Gharib is questionable about whow as running it... There have been some interesting things brought up about it... Such as when the photos first came out the government actually wanted to persecute the actual new photographer there and not the perpatratiors.. Rediculous I know..

And yes I understand your sentiments, I just don't agree with the US using torture..

sSubZerOo
Well I can respect that
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whoody12

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#18 whoody12
Member since 2004 • 4717 Posts
[QUOTE="whoody12"]

yay for American propaganda

don't you people remember abu ghraib ?

Dasacant

Don't even compare Abu Ghraib to to the **** that they do

what's the difference ?

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Dasacant

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#19 Dasacant
Member since 2005 • 1415 Posts
[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="whoody12"]

yay for American propaganda

don't you people remember abu ghraib ?

whoody12

Don't even compare Abu Ghraib to to the **** that they do

what's the difference ?

Read the other posts
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ScottEFresh

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#20 ScottEFresh
Member since 2003 • 1574 Posts
Alls fair in love and war my friend. ALLS FAIR.
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whipassmt

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#21 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts
Alls fair in love and war my friend. ALLS FAIR.ScottEFresh
have you ever read the just war doctrine or hear of jus in bello. Any way according to the just war doctrine only sovereign governments have the authority to wage a just war, individuals or groups (like al Qaeda) have no right to wage wars.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#22 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="ScottEFresh"]Alls fair in love and war my friend. ALLS FAIR.whipassmt
have you ever read the just war doctrine or hear of jus in bello. Any way according to the just war doctrine only sovereign governments have the authority to wage a just war, individuals or groups (like al Qaeda) have no right to wage wars.

Yes but we could also say that the war in Iraq was illegal to begin with those doctrines hehe.

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ScottEFresh

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#23 ScottEFresh
Member since 2003 • 1574 Posts
Exactly plus if you come to my country with your guns and tanks and planes...it doesn't matter if you asked me or not...guess what baby...it's war. I think people don't actually realize that when it all comes down to it the government always does what it wants anyways.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#24 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

Exactly plus if you come to my country with your guns and tanks and planes...it doesn't matter if you asked me or not...guess what baby...it's war. I think people don't actually realize that when it all comes down to it the government always does what it wants anyways.ScottEFresh

Correction the US always does what it wants.. Most other countries respect the UN.. The US in my eyes has committed diplomatic suicide.. In one bat of an eye it will turn its back on the UN breaking Nuclear proliferation treaty, to give India nuclear weapons.. Then coming right around and trying to enforce it on Iran and North Korea.

Of course this would be different if the strongest countries would actually support the UN.. Its quite pathetic really, the top 10 supporters (by lending people as peacekeepers for the UN) are infact devolping nations right now.

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ronniepage588

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#25 ronniepage588
Member since 2003 • 4188 Posts

they always find these

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whipassmt

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#26 whipassmt
Member since 2007 • 15375 Posts

[QUOTE="whipassmt"][QUOTE="ScottEFresh"]Alls fair in love and war my friend. ALLS FAIR.sSubZerOo

have you ever read the just war doctrine or hear of jus in bello. Any way according to the just war doctrine only sovereign governments have the authority to wage a just war, individuals or groups (like al Qaeda) have no right to wage wars.

Yes but we could also say that the war in Iraq was illegal to begin with those doctrines hehe.

actually before the war a bunch of theologians met and they concluded that an invasion of Iraq would be a just war. so he he to you and stop sticking up for the jihadi thugs.
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killtactics

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#27 killtactics
Member since 2004 • 5957 Posts
i like how you said this is what is going to happen in America if we dont win the war.... yes your right im sure ppl in caves can take out a super power and torture there ppl....
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DrCoCoPiMp

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#28 DrCoCoPiMp
Member since 2005 • 4088 Posts
You guys still believe your government and the media? meow
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club-sandwich

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#29 club-sandwich
Member since 2007 • 8399 Posts
I can't say I'm surprised.SolidSnake35
same here.
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jimhogg

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#30 jimhogg
Member since 2004 • 747 Posts

I'm not sure how americans can criticize others for torture when they do it themselves. Abu-Graib and american soldiers gang-raping, torturing and burning a teenage Iraqi girl... america...f*ck ya! obsolete2k1

they didn't do that stuff in abu-graib. and besides the soldiers in abu-graib are in prison for life

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obsolete2k1

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#31 obsolete2k1
Member since 2007 • 990 Posts

[QUOTE="obsolete2k1"]I'm not sure how americans can criticize others for torture when they do it themselves. Abu-Graib and american soldiers gang-raping, torturing and burning a teenage Iraqi girl... america...f*ck ya! jimhogg

they didn't do that stuff in abu-graib. and besides the soldiers in abu-graib are in prison for life

I didn't say that the gang raping happened in abu ghraib.

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whoody12

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#32 whoody12
Member since 2004 • 4717 Posts

[QUOTE="obsolete2k1"]I'm not sure how americans can criticize others for torture when they do it themselves. Abu-Graib and american soldiers gang-raping, torturing and burning a teenage Iraqi girl... america...f*ck ya! jimhogg

they didn't do that stuff in abu-graib. and besides the soldiers in abu-graib are in prison for life

i can show you pictures, but I would be banned

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L_G_X

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#33 L_G_X
Member since 2007 • 542 Posts
No it was a S&M party.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#34 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="whipassmt"][QUOTE="ScottEFresh"]Alls fair in love and war my friend. ALLS FAIR.whipassmt

have you ever read the just war doctrine or hear of jus in bello. Any way according to the just war doctrine only sovereign governments have the authority to wage a just war, individuals or groups (like al Qaeda) have no right to wage wars.

Yes but we could also say that the war in Iraq was illegal to begin with those doctrines hehe.

actually before the war a bunch of theologians met and they concluded that an invasion of Iraq would be a just war. so he he to you and stop sticking up for the jihadi thugs.

Who said I was sticking up for the "jihadi thugs" I am merely pointing out that by the doctrine you said it is wrong.. The only pre-empitive strike is when the threat is imminient.. The United States had no conclusive data that Iraq was goign to attack them or any of allies such as Israel.. And you have ot be kidding me your using people who studies THEOLOGY (religions) as your supporting argument? How bout using actual people well versed in war, politics and other such matters and not religion :roll:

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Lord__Darkstorn

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#35 Lord__Darkstorn
Member since 2007 • 2031 Posts
I'm not surprised, all of these conservative religious "cults," like al Qaida, go to great lengths to torture their prisoners. Beheadings are now done with saws...
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#36 theleif
Member since 2004 • 91 Posts

have you ever read the just war doctrine or hear of jus in bello. Any way according to the just war doctrine only sovereign governments have the authority to wage a just war, individuals or groups (like al Qaeda) have no right to wage wars.ScottEFresh

Neither did your founding fathers, but that never stopped you from hailing them (rightfully) as heroes.

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Cube_of_MooN

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#37 Cube_of_MooN
Member since 2005 • 9286 Posts
Good to hear that they found a torture center and shut it down. I hate how people somehow turn things like this into a negative.
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Alter_Echo

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#38 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts

Welcome to 2003.

Do you have any idea the amount of stuff they found that you never heard about because of how liberal american media is becoming?

Im not some random conservative either. I dont follow politics and couldnt care less either way so what im saying isnt biased in the least.

You didnt hear about all those recently ( recent enough that measurable residue was found in them ) discharge canisters and art rounds full of sarin gas or the empty warheads that still gave off radioactive readings when tested.

Where did the stuff go? Im sure they didnt dispose of the evidence during the year or more our UN inspection team was tooling around waiting for clearance /sarcasm off.

They are a cowardly nation. They hide behind their own innocent people for fear of annihilation instead of just being peacefull to begin with. Is it really that hard to get along?

IMO we should just leave, let them kill each other, fortify our own borders and let god sort it out. If they make each other extinct over there i couldnt with every ounce of my being care less.

EDIT : And this is coming from someone who gave 18 months of their life to help the same people who were blowing my friends and comrades up with roadside bombs. You cant trust any of them. The same guy who trys to shake your hand will then try to stick a grenade in your vest.

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theleif

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#39 theleif
Member since 2004 • 91 Posts

Read this and you will know why the Iraqis are helping the U.S. drive al Qaeda in Iraq out of Iraq. I saw this thing on tv where Iraqis drove al Qaida out of their neighborhood and set al Qaeda used to put people into big meat grinders, these guys are awful we need to blow the crap out of al Qaeda, if we lose the war on terror this is what will be going on in the United States.

whipassmt

And none of this would have happened if the USA didn't trained and funded the mujaheddin in Afghanistan (that's where Al Quaeda stems from, folks) or invaded Iraq. There was no fundamentalists terrorist in Iraq before the invasion. Yeah i know Saddam was a bastard, but even he came to power thanks to a coup financed by the CIA. And yes i know he killed hundreds of thousands, but you know more people in Iraq have died after the USA invasion than what Saddam managed to kill during his 50 years (excluding the Iraq-Iran war, of course)?

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theleif

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#40 theleif
Member since 2004 • 91 Posts

Do you have any idea the amount of stuff they found that you never heard about because of how liberal american media is becoming? Alter_Echo

You mean like FOX news? Damn liberals!

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Alter_Echo

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#41 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts
[QUOTE="whipassmt"]

Read this and you will know why the Iraqis are helping the U.S. drive al Qaeda in Iraq out of Iraq. I saw this thing on tv where Iraqis drove al Qaida out of their neighborhood and set al Qaeda used to put people into big meat grinders, these guys are awful we need to blow the crap out of al Qaeda, if we lose the war on terror this is what will be going on in the United States.

theleif

And none of this would have happened if the USA didn't trained and funded the mujaheddin in Afghanistan (that's where Al Quaeda stems from, folks) or invaded Iraq. There was no fundamentalists terrorist in Iraq before the invasion. Yeah i know Saddam was a bastard, but even he came to power thanks to a coup financed by the CIA. And yes i know he killed hundreds of thousands, but you know more people in Iraq have died after the USA invasion than what Saddam managed to kill during his 50 years (excluding the Iraq-Iran war, of course)?

Yeah. We pretty much paid for their portion of this war through weapon donations alone. Its amazing to think that there are several american soldiers who have been killed by american guns that were gifted to the enemy.

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Alter_Echo

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#42 Alter_Echo
Member since 2003 • 10724 Posts

[QUOTE="Alter_Echo"]

Do you have any idea the amount of stuff they found that you never heard about because of how liberal american media is becoming? theleif

You mean like FOX news? Damn liberals!

Fox news is so biased i couldnt watch it even if i supported them, which i dont because i gave up choosing sides when i figured out it didnt matter.

Talk radio and pretty much every network station is just a conduit for someone to express their own personal and political agenda. None of them are telling the people what they need to know in an unbiased fashion.

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pete_merlin

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#43 pete_merlin
Member since 2007 • 6098 Posts
torturing people to death just seems so pointless. you torture to recieve vital information, you dont do it till they die. how does someone put another human being in a meat grinder? how the hell could someone cope with killing someone that way?
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theleif

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#44 theleif
Member since 2004 • 91 Posts

torturing people to death just seems so pointless. you torture to recieve vital information, you dont do it till they die. pete_merlin

Wrong. It has been known, at least since the Spanish Inquisition that torture only gives you the answer you want. Not the truth.