US won't join landmine treaty (old thread please lock)

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/24/us.landmines/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

Washington (CNN) -- The United States won't join its NATO allies and many other countries in formally banning landmines, State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said during his midday briefing Tuesday.

"This administration undertook a policy review and we decided our landmine policy remains in effect," Kelly said in response to a question. "We made our policy review and we determined that we would not be able to meet our national defense needs nor our security commitments to our friends and allies if we sign this convention."

Thoughts? I for one am very disappointed that the administration is not joining the other countries in banning landmines.

EDIT: Mods, this thread was bumped but is an old thread, please lock it.

Thank God we haven't turned into complete pansies yet.

Thoughts? I for one am very disappointed that the administration is not joining the other countries in banning landmines.

chessmaster1989

You say that now, but when the Chinese/Zombies are storming across an open field to shoot/eat you, you'll be happy to have them.

Landmines are among the most evil weapons in the world, and this makes me sad. :(

Considering how many kids and innocents get killed by land-mines, I'm disappointed in this decision.

Landmines are among the most evil weapons in the world, and this makes me sad. :(

GabuEx

They can be used properly, so that left overs won't blow up innocent people. We have the technology now to make them safer than ever. Most of the incedents involving landmines are with very old ones from earlier wars. I think the US should do more to make them safer, and offer to clean up their left overs, but an outright ban is too far IMO.

Considering how many kids and innocents get killed by land-mines, I'm disappointed in this decision.

Ace_WondersX

it's all well and good if they make commitments to disable and clear minefields wen they r no longer needed i think,they only want to defend areas without putting soldiers at risk,i think they can be quite handy.

Thank God we haven't turned into complete pansies yet.

Pirate700

So the banning of a pathetic excuse of a weapon that inflicts massive collateral damage on innocent bystanders years after actual conflicts end = turning into pansies?

Sure.

Thank God we haven't turned into complete pansies yet.

Pirate700

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Thank God we haven't turned into complete pansies yet.

metroidfood

So the banning of a pathetic excuse of a weapon that inflicts massive collateral damage on innocent bystanders years after actual conflicts end = turning into pansies?

Sure.

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

l4dak47

We can also put radio trackers in them with special frequencies so we can track them down afterward and safely remove them. These landmines that are blowing innocents up are sometimes 60 years old.

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

l4dak47

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

GabuEx

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

Actually, they can be electronically painted with video cameras. Also, they can be triggered to go off only when a certain amount of weight is placed on them, so if a child stepped on them for example, they would not explode.

No weapon is 100% safe.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

GabuEx

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

l4dak47

I remember seeing some prototype footage of the new digital mines on a TV show. They look awesome in how effective they are against personnel and vehicles. When you done you can just turn them off and take them home too.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

dercoo

I remember seeing some prototype footage of the new digital mines on a TV show. They look awesome in how effective they are against personnel and vehicles. When you done you can just turn them off and take them home too.

Exactly what i was talking about, I saw the new landmine on the Military Channel today. I forgot the name though.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Landmines are among the most evil weapons in the world, and this makes me sad. :(

heysharpshooter

I think the US should do more to make them safer...

That gave me some lulz.

My idea on how to make them safer would be to put some kind of computer chip inside of them so that when the war is over you could just send out a 'shut down signal' to disable them.

Then you also have to worry about the possibility of chip malfunction which in the end still makes retrieving the landmines a slow process and dangerous because of how every mine would be treated as if it were in 'f**k up up everything that steps on my toes mode'.

What would the true purpose of the chip be? I don't know if they would put it in so they dont have to retreive the land mines or to make the retrieval process safer. Hopefully it's not the former.

As far as making them safer during wartime; It's war...that's all I have to say.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

heysharpshooter

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

Actually, they can be electronically painted with video cameras. Also, they can be triggered to go off only when a certain amount of weight is placed on them, so if a child stepped on them for example, they would not explode.

No weapon is 100% safe.

For a weapon that we place many of and not all are accounted for, it needs to be limited or banned. You can hardly claim that every landmine we plant in any zone of combat is accounted for, it's just too much and too risky.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

Pirate700

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

...Right, that clears everything up.

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

majoras_wrath

Actually, they can be electronically painted with video cameras. Also, they can be triggered to go off only when a certain amount of weight is placed on them, so if a child stepped on them for example, they would not explode.

No weapon is 100% safe.

Again, the digital cameras would paint enemies. They can even tell the difference between male and female, and tell if there is a baby.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

GabuEx

...Right, that clears everything up.

Well, if designed properly, all we have to do is put chips in our landmines and we can retrieve them after war/conflict is over. Sure they may cause some colateral damage during the war, but war sucks.

[QUOTE="majoras_wrath"][QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

Actually, they can be electronically painted with video cameras. Also, they can be triggered to go off only when a certain amount of weight is placed on them, so if a child stepped on them for example, they would not explode.

No weapon is 100% safe.

heysharpshooter

Again, the digital cameras would paint enemies. They can even tell the difference between male and female, and tell if there is a baby.

When the enemy is wearing civilian clothing, what exactly differentiates them from actual civilians?

It seems to me that landmines are basically pointless if they don't operate autonomously, which means that this has to be an automated process of determination, but this is not exactly like a video game where enemies are colored red or something.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

heysharpshooter

How exactly do they propose to make it do this? Will our enemies graciously wear items that will identify them as the bad guys? :P

Also, they can be triggered to go off only when a certain amount of weight is placed on them, so if a child stepped on them for example, they would not explode.

No weapon is 100% safe.

What if a fully strapped 50 pound anorexic gorilla has an entire squad pinned down and the soldiers only line of defense are mines set to...

[splode if pounds >= 51 else have fun]?

I didn't realize we were trying to clear something up. Sorry. :?

Pirate700

All I'm wanting to know is how exactly a landmine can be designed so that it will only kill the enemy, and not an innocent civilian. And - no offense - "we can do it" is not exactly an explanation.

The ability to turn them off I can see (although I'd kinda like a rather strong assurance that that isn't liable to malfunction), but I don't see how you can possibly automatically tell the difference between a civilian and an enemy.

Good thing. Why handicap ourselves? These treaties mean nothing, when a large scale conflict breaks out all bets are off.

Considering how many kids and innocents get killed by land-mines, I'm disappointed in this decision.

Ace_WondersX

the simplest and most cost effective solution i can think of is to just attach loads of strings to the little biters and drag them out wen the bad guys have had enough of a whoop assing from all the other big nasty explodie things the army dreams up.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

I didn't realize we were trying to clear something up. Sorry. :?

GabuEx

All I'm wanting to know is how exactly a landmine can be designed so that it will only kill the enemy, and not an innocent civilian. And - no offense - "we can do it" is not exactly an explanation.

The ability to turn them off I can see (although I'd kinda like a rather strong assurance that that isn't liable to malfunction), but I don't see how you can possibly automatically tell the difference between a civilian and an enemy.

Hmm, a weight scale and a metal detector with mad technology could to a crude degree prevent unwanted casualties.

Edit: All in theory.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

dercoo

I remember seeing some prototype footage of the new digital mines on a TV show. They look awesome in how effective they are against personnel and vehicles. When you done you can just turn them off and take them home too.

lol. Pack em up and save them for later. That's awesome.

[QUOTE="Pirate700"]

Thank God we haven't turned into complete pansies yet.

Chiefme

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

l4dak47

the simplest and most cost effective solution i can think of is to just attach loads of strings to the little biters and drag them out wen the bad guys have had enough of a whoop assing from all the other big nasty explodie things the army dreams up.

skilfulgary

Am I the only one that doesn't feeldisapointed? :? I actually wouldn't oppose it. After the cold war, the soviet union left one of the worlds largest landmine fields abandoned, and it has benn causing horrible incidents. That including childrenlosing limbs, andtheir lives. Mines that are 50 yearscrucially need to be removed.I find it irresponsible to allow mines abandoned after conflict. I actually persuade that they research a landmine that will turn off and on during times of intense conflict.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

goth_bacon

Am I the only one that doesn't feeldisapointed? :? I actually wouldn't oppose it. After the cold war, the soviet union left one of the worlds largest landmine fields abandoned, and it has benn causing horrible incidents. That including childrenlosing limbs, andtheir lives. Mines that are 50 yearscrucially need to be removed.I find it irresponsible to allow mines abandoned after conflict. I actually persuade that they research a landmine that will turn off and on during times of intense conflict.

Kamekazi_69

Too much profit in it

so some senators get backhanders

and U.S signs nothing

same with everything else

[QUOTE="goth_bacon"][QUOTE="l4dak47"]

You people do realize the U.S is working on a landmine that will only kill enemies and can/will be disabled after the war is over.

Trmpt

:lol:

I don't know why that made me laugh so much... That really caught me off guard.

As for mines, unless they actually do come up with some kind of friendly-foe device I doubt they are a good idea.

Am I the only one that doesn't feeldisapointed? :? I actually wouldn't oppose it. After the cold war, the soviet union left one of the worlds largest landmine fields abandoned, and it has benn causing horrible incidents. That including childrenlosing limbs, andtheir lives. Mines that are 50 yearscrucially need to be removed.I find it irresponsible to allow mines abandoned after conflict. I actually persuade that they research a landmine that will turn off and on during times of intense conflict.

it isnt the tech i would be worried about in this situation ,human error could be just as lethal in this situation,which is the biggest chink in most tecnologies armor.

We have the right to protect our waterways, and we can limit commercial sea traffic. Not that difficult, considering we have two agencies to patrol the sealanes: the Coast Guard plus the U.S. Navy.