WAR: Science and Religion

The endless war between Science and Religion must cease, for it is between ignorant armies in a bottomless stalemate.

The decline in religious beliefs and the decline in morality is relative. Killing our own offspring to save our own asses: fair trade. The creation of countless sexually-transmitted diseases in the name of fornication: fair trade. Such are the consquences of a corrupt society.

Although Religion is imperfect (the Crusades), we must all understand that both Science and Religion are necessary components for the continuous betterment of society.

No. I can't buy into that.

The two are not equal. Science is winning and religion is proving it's failure.

That said, people are having a hard time adapting. There are going to be mistakes as people come to grips with the fact that, although religion failed, they do not have to turn to anarchy.

It's evolution. We will overcome it.... or fail. It's life's order.

I hope we move past it.

I don't even understand how there is even a debate in the first place. Science deals with facts and evidence while religion deals with the metaphysical and faith. Two completely different and totally incompatible things.

And religion is definitely not "necessary for the betterment of society." Many people can live productive, happy and lawfully abiding lives without it. Science however is "necessary for the betterment of society" since it brings us things like medicine and health care technology.foxhound_fox

Science thinks it is for the betterment of society yet few Huuuuuuge advances have been made. Most technology just makes life more complicated while some make things easier. It is a constant balance. People still do the same amount of house work as they did 60 years ago. Things have became easier and more complicated at the same time.

Science and Religion to coexists in modern societies perfectly fine. Look at any Western nations, from the uinited states to switzerland to England, to see how scientific research is able to carry on.

Furthermore, the two must remain seperate have a begruding respect for eachother. The second they make peace, the second the world goes to hell imo. They must keep eachother in check; science to tell when religion is being too ignorant, and religion to tell science when it needs to recheck its moral compass.

The only bad thing is when both are unregulated. Look at places like Afghanistan and Iraq, where science is not really prevalent. Religion is out of balance there and it has resulted in violence.

I cant think of an example of science getting out of check tbh. Maybe Dr. Mendela in the Nazi consecration camps.

Science thinks it is for the betterment of society yet few Huuuuuuge advances have been made. Most technology just makes life more complicated while some make things easier. It is a constant balance. People still do the same amount of house work as they did 60 years ago. Things have became easier and more complicated at the same time.honkyjoe

I cant think of an example of science getting out of check tbh. Maybe Dr. Mendela in the Nazi consecration camps.mrbojangles25

I don't believe in either. We will never know how we were created, so I don't see the point in getting involved in religion or science. Neither side really makes total sense to me either.Zaeryn

Good point.

MAGIC FTW!!!!

I don't believe in either. We will never know how we were created, so I don't see the point in getting involved in religion or science. Neither side really makes total sense to me either.Zaeryn

[QUOTE="honkyjoe"]Science thinks it is for the betterment of society yet few Huuuuuuge advances have been made. Most technology just makes life more complicated while some make things easier. It is a constant balance. People still do the same amount of house work as they did 60 years ago. Things have became easier and more complicated at the same time.foxhound_fox

All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.

All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.honkyjoe

[QUOTE="honkyjoe"]All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.foxhound_fox

I think he's trying to talk about the negative things that come out of advancements in technology. For example, now that coporations are getting so large, customers are often forced to talk to machines instead of a real person, or end up receiving a lot of calls from telemarketers.

I think that's what he means.

[QUOTE="Zaeryn"]I don't believe in either. We will never know how we were created, so I don't see the point in getting involved in religion or science. Neither side really makes total sense to me either.bman784

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]I cant think of an example of science getting out of check tbh. Maybe Dr. Mendela in the Nazi consecration camps.foxhound_fox

see good in bad.

I like your philosophy!

Well, isn't it Religion vs Science, like the Big Bang Theory and such? The Big Bang Theory doesn't make much sense to me, and I can't say religion does much either. Though I'd say the idea of a God would make more sense than the Big Bang, but I don't follow any religion either for quite a few reasons.Zaeryn

[QUOTE="honkyjoe"]All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.foxhound_fox

Well lets say you are a 18th century farmer. All you need to know is how to plant your crop, harvest your crop, rinse and repeat. The only thing you had to worry about were unstable weather, pests, and the government taking control of your land..That was about it.

Now..You have the same farmer today. He has to worry about much much more. Not only does he have to worry about the things the 18th century farmer has to worry about but he also has to worry anout Mechanical Issues with Machinery, Gas and fuel, and lots of workers. Not to mention all the things like Cell Phones, Computers, Televisions, etc..That could break down or stress him out. Im not saying this new form of life is bad because its the exact opposite. Its a great life but to the 18th century farmers son that was a great life for him too(I would imagine). He knew he would take his place as the farmer after his dad where in todays society the only restraint on a good education of anything for that matter is Money.

I agree that science and Religion are necessary in society to a certain extent and for what they stand for. I also beleve both can co-exist peacefully and don't have to be put to war all the time.

No. I can't buy into that.

The two are not equal. Science is winning and religion is proving it's failure.

That said, people are having a hard time adapting. There are going to be mistakes as people come to grips with the fact that, although religion failed, they do not have to turn to anarchy.

It's evolution. We will overcome it.... or fail. It's life's order.

I hope we move past it.

lord_mordain

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="honkyjoe"]All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.TurtleMilk

I think he's trying to talk about the negative things that come out of advancements in technology. For example, now that coporations are getting so large, customers are often forced to talk to machines instead of a real person, or end up receiving a lot of calls from telemarketers.

I think that's what he means.

but that has nothing to do with religion.

If the thread had been called "Science and Customer Service" maybe it'd be relevant, but not here.

As for his general attitude I find it a little frightening.

-Religion has taken us to war.
-Science has given us the tools to end wars quickly.

-Religion comforts people as they die
-Science saves people from dying.

-Religion causes confusion and contradicitions. "My friend is gay what should I do?" I have heard dozens of different answers from Christians, from "tell him he is going to hell" to "I wonder what its like to be gay"
-Scienctific methods are streamlined, nearly-elegant ways to think through complex problems. "My friend is gay what should I do?" The scientific mind says "While I am heterosexual, his/her life****is not a threat to me so it is acceptable".

-Religion gives us prayer so that we can hope for rain to water crops.
-Science gives us draught-resistant crops so we can plant no matter what.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="honkyjoe"]All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.honkyjoe

Well lets say you are a 18th century farmer. All you need to know is how to plant your crop, harvest your crop, rinse and repeat. The only thing you had to worry about were unstable weather, pests, and the government taking control of your land..That was about it.

Now..You have the same farmer today. He has to worry about much much more. Not only does he have to worry about the things the 18th century farmer has to worry about but he also has to worry anout Mechanical Issues with Machinery, Gas and fuel, and lots of workers. Not to mention all the things like Cell Phones, Computers, Televisions, etc..That could break down or stress him out. Im not saying this new form of life is bad because its the exact opposite. Its a great life but to the 18th century farmers son that was a great life for him too(I would imagine). He knew he would take his place as the farmer after his dad where in todays society the only restraint on a good education of anything for that matter is Money.

Oh, BTW, you forgot that 18th century farmer needs to worry about dying at 35 vs. today's standard of 75.

Oh, and that his simple method yielded a crop that can feed a small village vs. today's "complicated" crops which generate food nation wide.

It's not so black and white. Except when you realize we have made progress... slowly.

It would go much faster without religion in the way though.

Well lets say you are a 18th century farmer. All you need to know is how to plant your crop, harvest your crop, rinse and repeat. The only thing you had to worry about were unstable weather, pests, and the government taking control of your land..That was about it.

Now..You have the same farmer today. He has to worry about much much more. Not only does he have to worry about the things the 18th century farmer has to worry about but he also has to worry anout Mechanical Issues with Machinery, Gas and fuel, and lots of workers. Not to mention all the things like Cell Phones, Computers, Televisions, etc..That could break down or stress him out. Im not saying this new form of life is bad because its the exact opposite. Its a great life but to the 18th century farmers son that was a great life for him too(I would imagine). He knew he would take his place as the farmer after his dad where in todays society the only restraint on a good education of anything for that matter is Money.

honkyjoe

Look TC.

Look upon your creation.

Look at it, and despair.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="honkyjoe"]All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.honkyjoe

Well lets say you are a 18th century farmer. All you need to know is how to plant your crop, harvest your crop, rinse and repeat. The only thing you had to worry about were unstable weather, pests, and the government taking control of your land..That was about it.

Now..You have the same farmer today. He has to worry about much much more. Not only does he have to worry about the things the 18th century farmer has to worry about but he also has to worry anout Mechanical Issues with Machinery, Gas and fuel, and lots of workers. Not to mention all the things like Cell Phones, Computers, Televisions, etc..That could break down or stress him out. Im not saying this new form of life is bad because its the exact opposite. Its a great life but to the 18th century farmers son that was a great life for him too(I would imagine). He knew he would take his place as the farmer after his dad where in todays society the only restraint on a good education of anything for that matter is Money.

you really need to educate yourself about agriculture.

In the 18th century, a farmer had about eight kids. If he was lucky, one or two would be daughters and the rest would be sons, and if he was blessed none of them would die before the age of three (which was commonplace). The kids likely never received any education, and the mother did chores all day.

As for the father? He worked in the fields from the time the rooster crowed (about 6am) until it was too dark to see.

And that...was...all...he...did.

My best friend is the son of a farmer. I met him at college. His dad worked his butt off; he worked as a farmer all through his childhood, went to college, graduated, and became a partner in a farm. He got to hire some people to do work for him while he managed them. He would go around and solve specific problems, but he never had to bend over the soil or till the ground again.

My friend's dad now owns his own orchard. All he has to worry about is logistics. Meanwhile, his family lives in a very nice house and he can afford to send his four kids to great colleges. They also have a 45k work truck, a Porsche Cayenne S, a 1960s GTO, a truck with a 454 crate engine installed. My friend has a Jeep Wrangler (about 24k), his little brother owns a nice lowered Chevy truck, and the daughter a nice compact. This is a family of seven, and they own about 10 cars with an average cost of 35 grand.

The only comparison that can be made between the modern American farmer and the 18th century farmer is that they both grow crops of some kind. Now, if you wanted to compare the migrant farm worker (not farmer, they dont have the skill and knowledge to be called farmers most of the time) to the 18th century, then you can make some more comparions. But even then.

And they owe all of it to science, and none of it to religion. Thats not to say religion does not play a role in their lives, but for all practical purposes it is useless to them.

For some reason, this misconception that Science and Religion are opponents is shared among many. It's not the case.

The real "battle" is, Religion vs. Truth.

[QUOTE="honkyjoe"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="honkyjoe"]All the major Corporations functioned just fine without the internet 30 years ago? I think that science has helped us escape the horrible times that is the Dark Ages and so forth I just think that in the last 40-50 years all we have done is make life more complicated and confusing.mrbojangles25

Well lets say you are a 18th century farmer. All you need to know is how to plant your crop, harvest your crop, rinse and repeat. The only thing you had to worry about were unstable weather, pests, and the government taking control of your land..That was about it.

Now..You have the same farmer today. He has to worry about much much more. Not only does he have to worry about the things the 18th century farmer has to worry about but he also has to worry anout Mechanical Issues with Machinery, Gas and fuel, and lots of workers. Not to mention all the things like Cell Phones, Computers, Televisions, etc..That could break down or stress him out. Im not saying this new form of life is bad because its the exact opposite. Its a great life but to the 18th century farmers son that was a great life for him too(I would imagine). He knew he would take his place as the farmer after his dad where in todays society the only restraint on a good education of anything for that matter is Money.

you really need to educate yourself about agriculture.

In the 18th century, a farmer had about eight kids. If he was lucky, one or two would be daughters and the rest would be sons, and if he was blessed none of them would die before the age of three (which was commonplace). The kids likely never received any education, and the mother did chores all day.

As for the father? He worked in the fields from the time the rooster crowed (about 6am) until it was too dark to see.

And that...was...all...he...did.

My best friend is the son of a farmer. I met him at college. His dad worked his butt off; he worked as a farmer all through his childhood, went to college, graduated, and became a partner in a farm. He got to hire some people to do work for him while he managed them. He would go around and solve specific problems, but he never had to bend over the soil or till the ground again.

My friend's dad now owns his own orchard. All he has to worry about is logistics. Meanwhile, his family lives in a very nice house and he can afford to send his four kids to great colleges. They also have a 45k work truck, a Porsche Cayenne S, a 1960s GTO, a truck with a 454 crate engine installed. My friend has a Jeep Wrangler (about 24k), his little brother owns a nice lowered Chevy truck, and the daughter a nice compact. This is a family of seven, and they own about 10 cars with an average cost of 35 grand.

The only comparison that can be made between the modern American farmer and the 18th century farmer is that they both grow crops of some kind. Now, if you wanted to compare the migrant farm worker (not farmer, they dont have the skill and knowledge to be called farmers most of the time) to the 18th century, then you can make some more comparions. But even then.

And they owe all of it to science, and none of it to religion. Thats not to say religion does not play a role in their lives, but for all practical purposes it is useless to them.

True on at least one point...

Praying never yielded consistent crops...

For some reason, this misconception that Science and Religion are opponents is shared among many. It's not the case.

The real "battle" is, Religion vs. Truth.

Deity_Slapper

Semantics....

To add to that, you're probably wrong....

If your going to compare truth, it's going to have to go against something like a lie...

Maybe Fiction vs. Non-Fiction....

But Religion vs. Science is adequate.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

For some reason, this misconception that Science and Religion are opponents is shared among many. It's not the case.

The real "battle" is, Religion vs. Truth.

lord_mordain

Semantics....

To add to that, you're probably wrong....

If your going to compare truth, it's going to have to go against something like a lie...

Maybe Fiction vs. Non-Fiction....

But Religion vs. Science is adequate.

You misinterpereted the meaning of my post, but that's ok. I'll explain.

If you're looking for truth, it can never be found within the confines of an oppressive structure such as religion. You'd have to break out of prepared mindstates and leave yourself open to anything, in order to find truth in anything. Therefore, religion is the enemy of ultimate truth - as it encourages you to NOT seek enlightenment outside of it's own borders.

[QUOTE="lord_mordain"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

For some reason, this misconception that Science and Religion are opponents is shared among many. It's not the case.

The real "battle" is, Religion vs. Truth.

Deity_Slapper

Semantics....

To add to that, you're probably wrong....

If your going to compare truth, it's going to have to go against something like a lie...

Maybe Fiction vs. Non-Fiction....

But Religion vs. Science is adequate.

You misinterpereted the meaning of my post, but that's ok. I'll explain.

If you're looking for truth, it can never be found within the confines of an oppressive structure such as religion. You'd have to break out of prepared mindstates and leave yourself open to anything, in order to find truth in anything. Therefore, religion is the enemy of ultimate truth - as it encourages you to NOT seek enlightenment outside of it's own borders.

You misinterpreted my post.

It's alright.

Sorry for going over your head.

[QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"][QUOTE="lord_mordain"][QUOTE="Deity_Slapper"]

For some reason, this misconception that Science and Religion are opponents is shared among many. It's not the case.

The real "battle" is, Religion vs. Truth.

lord_mordain

Semantics....

To add to that, you're probably wrong....

If your going to compare truth, it's going to have to go against something like a lie...

Maybe Fiction vs. Non-Fiction....

But Religion vs. Science is adequate.

You misinterpereted the meaning of my post, but that's ok. I'll explain.

If you're looking for truth, it can never be found within the confines of an oppressive structure such as religion. You'd have to break out of prepared mindstates and leave yourself open to anything, in order to find truth in anything. Therefore, religion is the enemy of ultimate truth - as it encourages you to NOT seek enlightenment outside of it's own borders.

You misinterpreted my post.

It's alright.

Sorry for going over your head.

no need to get pissy :|

lets keep this objective for as long as possible please. Argumentative, yes, but not insulting and personal.

But Religion vs. Science is adequate.lord_mordain

Oh, and I forgot to say, "Religion vs. Science" is NOT adequate, because as I just said, they are not enemies. Science is just attempting to discover and explain how EVERYTHING works. Most of the things scientists seek knowledge of, has nothing to do with religion, or the debunking of religion. I have no clue how people decided that science was an enemy of religion. Must have been the religious folks who started this war with science, because science was just minding it's own business making discoveries, and when some discoveries came about that noticably clashed with religious beliefs, it was the religious who got all tied up in a knot that something would even exist that could question their creator...thus, they threw the first stone (ironically), when they started to claim that science is the devil, or the study of satan (yes I've actually heard it referred to that way, by crazy fundies), and what not.

Science DOES NOT exist to debunk religious beliefs.

Religion is just pissed that some of their flaws were put in the spotlight, and even more embarrassing, it was inadvertent. When scientists set out to determine the meaning behind something, they're not out to get religion. It's not their fault that some of the things they inevitably discover HAPPENS TO clash with some of the christians' inherited dogmatic beliefs. And people noticed. That's all. Christians and other religious folk should just realize and accept that not everything they were told is true, and to keep their minds open for what might really be going on...

Learning never ends...so religions are ridiculous to think they have found all the answers already. That would suck though, wouldn't it? If we knew everything already, and we're just here, alive, killing time without a thing to do other than prepare for a meeting with Mr. Perfect? Think about it - If religions had everything figured out already, and god sees it, then isn't it game over at that point?

Religious folk- "Ok god, we figured it out!"

God - "Ok good! Finally we can move on to the next step of my plan!"

If religions have everything sewn up, wouldn't god notice, and then just expedite the process of going to "Judgement Day"? Right? Otherwise, what are we all doing just sitting around and waiting for? What's taking god so long?

You misinterpreted my post.

It's alright.

Sorry for going over your head.

lord_mordain

You wish. :lol:

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]I don't even understand how there is even a debate in the first place. Science deals with facts and evidence while religion deals with the metaphysical and faith. Two completely different and totally incompatible things.

And religion is definitely not "necessary for the betterment of society." Many people can live productive, happy and lawfully abiding lives without it. Science however is "necessary for the betterment of society" since it brings us things like medicine and health care technology.honkyjoe

Science thinks it is for the betterment of society yet few Huuuuuuge advances have been made. Most technology just makes life more complicated while some make things easier. It is a constant balance. People still do the same amount of house work as they did 60 years ago. Things have became easier and more complicated at the same time.

Yeah...because the automobile, electricity, light bulbs, computers, the internet, penecillian, the eradication of polio and smallpox, genetic screening, psychotropic drugs such as antipsychotics (responsible for the near eradication of insane asylums), prosthetic limbs, and really all other modern health care (both mental and physical), along with other nifty things such as powered cooling, airplanes, synthetic fibers, plastic, water filtration, cell phones (and really phones in general), skyscrapers, alternative fuel sources, space travel, pastuerization, anesthesia, much improved agriculture techniques and yields, the creation of massive seafaring vessels, and early storm warnings aren't "huge" advances. I mean, just look at how little we've advanced in the past few hundred years, especially compared to massive improvements we made back in the dark ages when religion was king.

Sarcasm aside, yeah, technology and new scientific findings may complicate life. But I seriously doubt you'd be willing to go without that stuff. It used to be life was very simple back in cro-magnon times. The only things you had to worry about back then was getting enough food to keep living. There were no jobs to tie you down or stress you out, no education to bore you throughout your childhood, no technology to fumble around with. However, people back then also had a startling tendancy to die before age 30, so much so that you were considered over the hill by the time you hit puberty. Oh, and its not like these would have been a very comfortable 25-30 years either.

[QUOTE="lord_mordain"]

But Religion vs. Science is adequate.Deity_Slapper

Oh, and I forgot to say, "Religion vs. Science" is NOT adequate, because as I just said, they are not enemies. Science is just attempting to discover and explain how EVERYTHING works. Most of the things scientists seek knowledge of, has nothing to do with religion, or the debunking of religion. I have no clue how people decided that science was an enemy of religion. Must have been the religious folks who started this war with science, because science was just minding it's own business making discoveries, and when some discoveries came about that noticably clashed with religious beliefs, it was the religious who got all tied up in a knot that something would even exist that could question their creator...thus, they threw the first stone (ironically), when they started to claim that science is the devil, or the study of satan (yes I've actually heard it referred to that way, by crazy fundies), and what not.

Science DOES NOT exist to debunk religious beliefs.

Religion is just pissed that some of their flaws were put in the spotlight, and even more embarrassing, it was inadvertent. When scientists set out to determine the meaning behind something, they're not out to get religion. It's not their fault that some of the things they inevitably discover HAPPENS TO clash with some of the christians' inherited dogmatic beliefs. And people noticed. That's all. Christians and other religious folk should just realize and accept that not everything they were told is true, and to keep their minds open for what might really be going on...

Learning never ends...so religions are ridiculous to think they have found all the answers already. That would suck though, wouldn't it? If we knew everything already, and we're just here, alive, killing time without a thing to do other than prepare for a meeting with Mr. Perfect? Think about it - If religions had everything figured out already, and god sees it, then isn't it game over at that point?

Religious folk- "Ok god, we figured it out!"

God - "Ok good! Finally we can move on to the next step of my plan!"

If religions have everything sewn up, wouldn't god notice, and then just expedite the process of going to "Judgement Day"? Right? Otherwise, what are we all doing just sitting around and waiting for? What's taking god so long?

They are enemies.

How is any enemy made? When opinions collide.

No, it's not always intentional, but it is the way it happens.

When it comes to scientific pursuit, religious dogma DOES interfere. When it comes to religious dogma, I as an Atheist DO interfere. It is a war.

Furthermore, as you said, Science does try to put truth to everything, religion lets the Deity of God explain it. Science does require constant learning, but religion puts an end to that with "Faith". We argue about it constantly, and the outcome of war was really inevitable.

I questioned your "definitions" because I don't really think you've taken in all that there is to be considered. I could throw a wall of text at you, but I'm not that patient and I like to be concise.

You do seem to agree with me on one thing though, they threw the first stone.

But that's neither here nor there.

Look up the meaning of the word "semantics" BTW.

Furthermore, as you said, Science does try to put truth to everything,religion lets the Deity of God explain it. Science does require constant learning, but religion puts an end to that with faith.

lord_mordain

You do know not all religious views agree that there is a God? You do know that right? Do you mean christianity creationism? Or religios theism? Be more specific, or I'll assume you mean all religion.

I think people are confusing religion solely with theism, which annoys me. Religion is basically man's attempt (Not saying they are all wrong) to answer questions of morality and life. Religion on a whole is not associated with only GOD. Heck some religions beleive that God is evil, and some don't beleive in God at all.

They are enemies.

Sure they are...now! Cause religion started it, as I said. But initially, they were not enemies, because there's no reason for them to be.

How is any enemy made? When opinions collide.

People don't have to be enemies just because their opinions differ. A clashing of ideas does not always end up with grudges being held on one or both sides. I can disagree with someone without holding anything against them. Like right now! :lol: (I have no beef with lord_mordain.) Are we enemies now, just because we disagree on a few points? I don't feel that way and I certainly hope you don't either.

When it comes to scientific pursuit, religious dogma DOES interfere. When it comes to religious dogma, I as an Atheist DO interfere. It is a war.

They seem to not get along at this juncture, I agree with you there, but again, science was not invented to attack religion. Christains need to realize this, humbly accept it, and stop trying to get science "shut down".

Furthermore, as you said, Science does try to put truth to everything, religion lets the Deity of God explain it. Science does require constant learning, but religion puts an end to that with "Faith". We argue about it constantly, and the outcome of war was really inevitable.

Only because people are gullible and believe what their religion feeds them. If we can enlighten them to what we know is really going on, we can end that war. I think ignorance is more the enemy here. Religion would fade away without a peep if it's followers could somehow be awakened to reality.

I questioned your "definitions" because I don't really think you've taken in all that there is to be considered. I could throw a wall of text at you, but I'm not that patient and I like to be concise.

Walls of text rule. When segmented with paragraphs. Don't you like to read? I do (if it's interesting). :)

You do seem to agree with e on one thing though, they threw the first stone.

Yep.

Look up the meaning of the word "semantics" BTW.

I know what it means, thanks.lord_mordain

[QUOTE="lord_mordain"]They are enemies.

Sure they are...now! Cause religion started it, as I said. But initially, they were not enemies, because there's no reason for them to be.

How is any enemy made? When opinions collide.

People don't have to be enemies just because their opinions differ. A clashing of ideas does not always end up with grudges being held on one or both sides. I can disagree with someone without holding anything against them. Like right now! :lol: (I have no beef with lord_mordain.) Are we enemies now, just because we disagree on a few points? I don't feel that way and I certainly hope you don't either.

When it comes to scientific pursuit, religious dogma DOES interfere. When it comes to religious dogma, I as an Atheist DO interfere. It is a war.

They seem to not get along at this juncture, I agree with you there, but again, science was not invented to attack religion. Christains need to realize this, humbly accept it, and stop trying to get science "shut down".

Furthermore, as you said, Science does try to put truth to everything, religion lets the Deity of God explain it. Science does require constant learning, but religion puts an end to that with "Faith". We argue about it constantly, and the outcome of war was really inevitable.

Only because people are gullible and believe what their religion feeds them. If we can enlighten them to what we know is really going on, we can end that war. I think ignorance is more the enemy here. Religion would fade away without a peep if it's followers could somehow be awakened to reality.

I questioned your "definitions" because I don't really think you've taken in all that there is to be considered. I could throw a wall of text at you, but I'm not that patient and I like to be concise.

Walls of text rule. When segmented with paragraphs. Don't you like to read? I do (if it's interesting). :)

You do seem to agree with e on one thing though, they threw the first stone.

Yep.

Look up the meaning of the word "semantics" BTW.

I know what it means, thanks.[/QUOTE]

Deity_Slapper

I still don't think you do.

And some of your statements either agree with me while trying to refute, (not counting those that actually agree) and/or contradict themselves. Highlighted in green.

Anyways, I have no beef with you either, this thing is born of something anal. Oh well. I have a felling we're really on the same side of the subject.

But I'm out of booze. My comments need to go bye bye.

-Religion has taken us to war.mrbojangles25

I still don't think you do. lord_mordain

What?

And some of your statements either agree with me while trying to refute, (not counting those that actually agree) and/or contradict themselves. lord_mordain

I wasn't trying to refute, I was trying to explain myself.

Anyways, I have no beef with you either, this thing is born of something anal. Oh well. I have a felling we're really on the same side of the subject.lord_mordain

Ok cool. See, we don't have to be enemies just because we disagreed. :)

But I'm out of booze. My comments need to go bye bye.lord_mordain

Weed is better. ;)

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]-Religion has taken us to war.Erinye_

No, just NO!

Damn it, that's POLITICS......

This is going to turn out just like the semantics thing....

Whatever! Churches and Religions are totally not related...

[QUOTE="Erinye_"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]-Religion has taken us to war.lord_mordain

No, just NO!

Damn it, that's POLITICS......

This is going to turn out just like the semantics thing....

Whatever! Churches and Religions are totally not related...

Not one bit!!!!

Whoa buddy! :P

See that booze isn't workin out...you need a bong rip. :)

[QUOTE="Erinye_"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]-Religion has taken us to war.lord_mordain

No, just NO!

Damn it, that's POLITICS......

This is going to turn out just like the semantics thing....

Whatever! Churches and Religions are totally not related...

Not one bit!!!!

Ok, let's say politics (I just posted according his point of view)

Then, for example: GOVERMENT has taken you to war, NOT GOD.

I'm going to have to disagree with this at the moment.

It is not a battle between two ignorant sides. There is NO BATTLE. There is no culture crusade. Because when it comes right down to it, there are only a handful of non-religious people who give a damn religion at all.

Fundamentalist religions that continue to stick to their old ways and refuse to move with the times will always create political mayhem. There have always been faiths that refuse to move with the times, look at what happened in England's civial wars with the puritanicals and the loyalists.

There is no make-up required, no sides needing to shake hands and cool down. You don't see scientists (aside from Dawkins and co) trying to destroy religion. However you DO see religious pundits trying to halt scientific research and developments for their own beliefs.

There is no war on the faith. There is only a backlash against changing times from some faiths. Plenty have managed to make steps towards progress; for example the Catholic church no longer pushes the 'evolution is the DEVIL!' line of thought in mainstream sects.

Because lets face it. Science does NOT exist to disprove religion. Science doesn't give a DAMN about religion, ESPECIALLY considering the majority of scientists worldwide BELIEVE in one faith or another! (I can't link that but I'll see if I can find it later).

I'm going to have to disagree with this at the moment.

It is not a battle between two ignorant sides. There is NO BATTLE. There is no culture crusade. Because when it comes right down to it, there are only a handful of non-religious people who give a damn religion at all.

Fundamentalist religions that continue to stick to their old ways and refuse to move with the times will always create political mayhem. There have always been faiths that refuse to move with the times, look at what happened in England's civial wars with the puritanicals and the loyalists.

There is no make-up required, no sides needing to shake hands and cool down. You don't see scientists (aside from Dawkins and co) trying to destroy religion. However you DO see religious pundits trying to halt scientific research and developments for their own beliefs.

There is no war on the faith. There is only a backlash against changing times from some faiths. Plenty have managed to make steps towards progress; for example the Catholic church no longer pushes the 'evolution is the DEVIL!' line of thought in mainstream sects.

Because lets face it. Science does NOT exist to disprove religion. Science doesn't give a DAMN about religion, ESPECIALLY considering the majority of scientists worldwide BELIEVE in one faith or another! (I can't link that but I'll see if I can find it later).

RKfromDownunder

Dude that's basically what I just said. :|

Good post anyway! I agree! :lol:

[QUOTE="lord_mordain"][QUOTE="Erinye_"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]-Religion has taken us to war.Erinye_

No, just NO!

Damn it, that's POLITICS......

This is going to turn out just like the semantics thing....

Whatever! Churches and Religions are totally not related...

Not one bit!!!!

Ok, let's say politics (I just posted according his point of view)

Then, for example: GOVERMENT has taken you to war, NOT GOD.

That's another issue isn't it?

But not my point.

Good night.

[QUOTE="Erinye_"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]-Religion has taken us to war.lord_mordain

No, just NO!

Damn it, that's POLITICS......

This is going to turn out just like the semantics thing....

Whatever! Churches and Religions are totally not related...

I'm going to have to disagree with this at the moment.

It is not a battle between two ignorant sides. There is NO BATTLE. There is no culture crusade. Because when it comes right down to it, there are only a handful of non-religious people who give a damn religion at all.

Fundamentalist religions that continue to stick to their old ways and refuse to move with the times will always create political mayhem. There have always been faiths that refuse to move with the times, look at what happened in England's civial wars with the puritanicals and the loyalists.

There is no make-up required, no sides needing to shake hands and cool down. You don't see scientists (aside from Dawkins and co) trying to destroy religion. However you DO see religious pundits trying to halt scientific research and developments for their own beliefs.

There is no war on the faith. There is only a backlash against changing times from some faiths. Plenty have managed to make steps towards progress; for example the Catholic church no longer pushes the 'evolution is the DEVIL!' line of thought in mainstream sects.

Because lets face it. Science does NOT exist to disprove religion. Science doesn't give a DAMN about religion, ESPECIALLY considering the majority of scientists worldwide BELIEVE in one faith or another! (I can't link that but I'll see if I can find it later).

RKfromDownunder

I don't have to give a damn about you to crush you.

Most people don't when they do.

Stop making me post!!!!

Because lets face it. Science does NOT exist to disprove religion. Science doesn't give a DAMN about religion, ESPECIALLY considering the majority of scientists worldwide BELIEVE in one faith or another! (I can't link that but I'll see if I can find it later).RKfromDownunder

Well played, sir...

This guy knows what his talking about.

Guys... Look. I'm atheist... I had to study the Bible, and I know about the Torah and Buda, ok? It's all about faith.

Everything I do is stay cool about another's religion, that's all. Anyway, Dane Cook has something to tell you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZfocZ_LDQc

[QUOTE="RKfromDownunder"]Because lets face it. Science does NOT exist to disprove religion. Science doesn't give a DAMN about religion, ESPECIALLY considering the majority of scientists worldwide BELIEVE in one faith or another! (I can't link that but I'll see if I can find it later).Erinye_

Well played, sir...

This guy knows what his talking about.

Guys... Look. I'm atheist... I had to study the Bible, and I know about the Torah and Buda, ok? It's all about faith.

Everything I do is stay cool about another's religion, that's all. Anyway, Dane Cook has something to tell you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZfocZ_LDQc

Faith is how you excuse ignorance.