Welcome to the police state.

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proctorsurf

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#1 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts

Police Are Using Armored Vehicles

AP May 8th, 07
RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI

PITTSBURGH -- After six people were shot in the city's Homewood neighborhood in less than 24 hours, Pittsburgh police rolled in with a 20-ton armored truck with a blast-resistant body, armored rotating roof hatch and gunports.

No guns or drugs were seized and no arrests made during the sweep in the $250,000 armored vehicle, paid for with Homeland Security money. But the show of force sent a message.

Whether it was the right message is a matter of debate.

With scores of police agencies large and small, from Lexington, Ky., to Austin, Texas, buying armored vehicles at Homeland Security expense, some criminal justice experts warn that their use in fighting everyday crime could do more harm than good and represents a post-9/11, militaristic turn away from the more cooperative community-policing approach promoted in the 1990s.

When the armored truck moved through the Homewood neighborhood late last year, residents came out of their homes to take a look. Some were offended.

"This is really the containment of crime, not the elimination, because to eliminate it you have to address some of the social problems," complained Rashad Byrdsong, a community activist.

Law enforcement agencies say the growing use of the vehicles, a practice that also has its defenders in the academic field of criminal justice, helps ensure police have the tools they need to deal with hostage situations, heavy gunfire and acts of terrorism.

But police are also putting the equipment to more routine use, such as the delivering to warrants to suspects believed to be armed.

"We live on being prepared for `what if?'" said Pittsburgh Sgt. Barry Budd, a memer of the SWAT team.

Critics say that the appearance of armored vehicles in high-crime neighborhoods may only increase tensions by making residents feel as if they are under siege.

Most departments do not have "a credible, justifiable reason for buying these kinds of vehicles," but find them appealing because they "tap into that subculture within policing that finds the whole military special-operations model culturally intoxicating," said Peter Kraska, a professor at Eastern Kentucky University and an expert on police militarization. The military-****approach "runs a high risk of being very counterproductive."

 

Peter Moskos, a criminologist at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, said police departments would be better off hiring people with different language skills if the goal is to root out terrorism.

"It does worry me when cops try to be more military-like because an armored car is not going to stop a terrorist," he said.

In Pittsburgh, a city of about 370,000 with pockets of mostly drug- or gang-related crime, the armored truck made by Lenco Industries Inc. of Pittsfield, Mass., has been used about four times a month, Budd said.

He said the Lenco B.E.A.R., or Ballistic Engineered Armored Response and Rescue vehicle, was bought primarily to be used in hostage situations and when officers are wounded. On Sunday, the truck was deployed when Pittsburgh's SWAT team responded to a report of an armed man holed up in a home. The standoff ended peacefully.

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, police in Lexington, Ky., a city of about 280,000, have obtained two armored vehicles, including a Lenco B.E.A.R. paid for with Homeland Security money, and two military helicopters acquired from the Pentagon.

Police Chief Anthany Beatty said the equipment is used mostly to fight daily crime but is also meant to protect the area's "significant military assets" from terrorists. Lexington's SWAT team takes its armored truck out on every call, including the serving of warrants to heavily armed suspects.

Police in Austin -- home to about 720,000 -- bought Lenco's smaller armored vehicle, the BearCat, with a $250,000 Homeland Security grant. Lt. Vic White, who heads the department's tactical operations, said it is deployed every time the SWAT team is called out, including instances in which officers need to be taken into an area where armed suspects could be holed up.

Robert J. Castelli, chairman of criminal justice at Iona College in New Rochelle, N.Y., said if he were a police chief of a force with an armored vehicle, he would order it sent out on every SWAT call.

"Things can go pretty bad pretty quick in police work," said Castelli, a former member of the New York State Police.

Castelli said armored vehicles can send a positive message -- that police are in control of the situation -- and make police better prepared to deal with more heavily armed criminals, as well as terrorists.

Lenco Industries president Len Light said Homeland Security grants have significantly boosted sales but would not provide precise figures. He said the company has sold hundreds of armored vehicles to police nationwide, and has annual sales of about $40 million.

The Homeland Security Department has said it may have been too free in giving out money.

Until recently, little scrutiny was given to whether grants served a national purpose, said Larry Orluskie, a Homeland Security spokesman. In March, grant-giving was handed over to the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

"Now, states have to propose a plan and how the money will be used to support Homeland Security missions," he said.

 

Ahhh I can't wait for martial law!! Your thoughts?

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LostProphetFLCL

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#2 LostProphetFLCL
Member since 2006 • 18526 Posts
Dude, one of those drove past me and my friends the other day when we were taking a friend to the airport.....
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staindcoldlp

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#3 staindcoldlp
Member since 2004 • 15121 Posts
That is awesome.
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Axed54

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#4 Axed54
Member since 2006 • 2963 Posts
Just kids with a new toy!
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metallica_fan42

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#5 metallica_fan42
Member since 2006 • 21143 Posts
Now all they need is robotic cops.
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Shrapnelled

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#6 Shrapnelled
Member since 2007 • 332 Posts
Pimp.
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firebird23

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#7 firebird23
Member since 2005 • 4752 Posts
How do any of you think this is cool? This vehicles can )and most likely, will) be used to infringe upon our sovereignty and our 4th amendment rights. What next, police in storm trooper riot gear tasing, gassing and clubbing peaceful protests? Oops, too late. Welcome to the world were state power reigns supreme.
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mike7677

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#8 mike7677
Member since 2006 • 2426 Posts
Out of curiousity, does anyone know anything about Homewood at all?
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Shrapnelled

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#9 Shrapnelled
Member since 2007 • 332 Posts

How do any of you think this is cool? This vehicles can )and most likely, will) be used to infringe upon our sovereignty and our 4th amendment rights. What next, police in storm trooper riot gear tasing, gassing and clubbing peaceful protests? Oops, too late. Welcome to the world were state power reigns supreme.firebird23

That's just the plain racist LAPD, not police brutality.  I'm mexican and I think there really shouldn't be any marches for immigrant rights.

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deactivated-5901ac91d8e33

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#10 deactivated-5901ac91d8e33
Member since 2004 • 17092 Posts

How do any of you think this is cool? This vehicles can )and most likely, will) be used to infringe upon our sovereignty and our 4th amendment rights. What next, police in storm trooper riot gear tasing, gassing and clubbing peaceful protests? Oops, too late. Welcome to the world were state power reigns supreme.firebird23

dude, 6 people were shot in 24 hours....that's why they used it....It's not like thoes are patrolling the streets instead of police cars...You really know nothing about this.....try to protest in china and see what happends....because that's real state power.

I don't think much of what the american government is doing....but come on, don't whine about a simple thing like this

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#11 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
I have something to really get proctor going here
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Elraptor

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#12 Elraptor
Member since 2004 • 30966 Posts
Omg, I want one of those!
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freakyzeeky1986

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#13 freakyzeeky1986
Member since 2005 • 19711 Posts

Now all they need is robotic cops.metallica_fan42

Or a Terminator... :twisted: 

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MattUD1

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#14 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts

[QUOTE="firebird23"]How do any of you think this is cool? This vehicles can )and most likely, will) be used to infringe upon our sovereignty and our 4th amendment rights. What next, police in storm trooper riot gear tasing, gassing and clubbing peaceful protests? Oops, too late. Welcome to the world were state power reigns supreme.jointed

dude, 6 people were shot in 24 hours....that's why they used it....It's not like thoes are patrolling the streets instead of police cars...You really know nothing about this.....try to protest in china and see what happends....because that's real state power.

I don't think much of what the american government is doing....but come on, don't whine about a simple thing like this

This is nothing.  I could spin the last year in my old neighborhood into propaganda about the US becoming a police state.  Basically, we had patrol cars (courtesy of the UDPD) going down our street every day, sometimes every few hours.  OH NOES!!1  Teh guvrnmentz is upressing mah!!!!11!
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Shrapnelled

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#15 Shrapnelled
Member since 2007 • 332 Posts

[QUOTE="metallica_fan42"]Now all they need is robotic cops.freakyzeeky1986

Or a Terminator... :twisted: 

Or a Timecop.

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LJS9502_basic

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#16 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180175 Posts
I live in Pittsburgh and do not see armored vehicles in the streets....
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The_Ish

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#17 The_Ish
Member since 2006 • 13913 Posts

This is not our biggest problem, really.

Well, not until they start bringing those in for speaking out.

 

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proctorsurf

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#18 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts

This is not our biggest problem, really.

Well, not until they start bringing those in for speaking out.

 

The_Ish

It is a significant problem. We already have "free speech zones". The hate bill, which restricts the use of the first amendment will most likely be passed. You can't forget all of the false flag terror attacks too. Welcome to the Orwellian dictatorship my friends.

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Def_Jef88

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#19 Def_Jef88
Member since 2006 • 17441 Posts
I lived on a military base for 3 years....  no biggy
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#20 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
[QUOTE="The_Ish"]

This is not our biggest problem, really.

Well, not until they start bringing those in for speaking out.

 

proctorsurf

It is a significant problem. We already have "free speech zones". The hate bill, which restricts the use of the first amendment will most likely be passed. You can't forgot all of the false flag terror attacks too. Welcome to the Orwellian dictatorship my friends.

Thanks!
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NearTheEnd

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#21 NearTheEnd
Member since 2002 • 12184 Posts

The Patriot Act >>>>>>Big Trucks.

 

 

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fidosim

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#22 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
Well if the liberals hadn't taken my AK away I might have been able to do something... :P
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HostileEffect

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#23 HostileEffect
Member since 2006 • 2491 Posts
Can't you just build a new AK?
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#24 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
Well if the liberals hadn't taken my AK away I might have been able to do something... :Pfidosim
I think you missed the part where the vehicle was "armored" :(
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Def_Jef88

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#25 Def_Jef88
Member since 2006 • 17441 Posts
[QUOTE="fidosim"]Well if the liberals hadn't taken my AK away I might have been able to do something... :Pxaos
I think you missed the part where the vehicle was "armored" :(

liberals took away our RPGs too....
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nohabs

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#26 nohabs
Member since 2004 • 10797 Posts
The sad part is...like it or not....you paid for the armored vehicle, with your tax dollars
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#27 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="fidosim"]Well if the liberals hadn't taken my AK away I might have been able to do something... :PDef_Jef88
I think you missed the part where the vehicle was "armored" :(

liberals took away our RPGs too....

But they can never take away our IEDs
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quiglythegreat

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#28 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
I don't see how giving the cops more protective vehicles makes America a police state. A police state is defined by how much power the police have, not what toys.
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quiglythegreat

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#29 quiglythegreat
Member since 2006 • 16886 Posts
[QUOTE="Def_Jef88"][QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="fidosim"]Well if the liberals hadn't taken my AK away I might have been able to do something... :Pxaos
I think you missed the part where the vehicle was "armored" :(

liberals took away our RPGs too....

But they can never take away our IEDs

Damn right. So long as we can get fertilizer and blasting caps and cell phones, we'll keep those.
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Flaming_Ape

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#30 Flaming_Ape
Member since 2007 • 3246 Posts
Law enforcement has sure elevated during the past few years.
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KrAzY_cHrIs

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#31 KrAzY_cHrIs
Member since 2007 • 1132 Posts

Now all they need is robotic cops.metallica_fan42

You mean some sort of robo cop?

interesting

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RamboSymbiot

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#32 RamboSymbiot
Member since 2007 • 6302 Posts
I AM PRO NWO. cant wait....
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Shrapnelled

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#33 Shrapnelled
Member since 2007 • 332 Posts

I don't see how giving the cops more protective vehicles makes America a police state. A police state is defined by how much power the police have, not what toys.quiglythegreat

Welcome to a Proctor thread.  A little hint at giving the government power = bad in his eyes.

They work for us, not the other way around.

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slateman_basic

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#34 slateman_basic
Member since 2002 • 4142 Posts
Good job by the police
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MattUD1

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#35 MattUD1
Member since 2004 • 20715 Posts

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't see how giving the cops more protective vehicles makes America a police state. A police state is defined by how much power the police have, not what toys.Shrapnelled

Welcome to a Proctor thread. A little hint at giving the government power = bad in his eyes.

They work for us, not the other way around.

We can easily tell the government to shove off and leave us alone.  And if they don't there will be riots in the streets, and I'll be looting PS3's, Xbox 360's, and Wii's.
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mlbslugger86

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#36 mlbslugger86
Member since 2004 • 12867 Posts
thats no biggie,i've seen those around police stations around here in NYC,and just because of that one thing the US is a police state?does tiananmen square ring a bell?
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damann22

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#37 damann22
Member since 2004 • 7655 Posts
awesome.  I wish more police stations had that then america would be safer.
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proctorsurf

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#38 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts

thats no biggie,i've seen those around police stations around here in NYC,and just because of that one thing the US is a police state?does tiananmen square ring a bell?mlbslugger86

No, it is one example of the power that the police have. The main reason that the second amendment is in the Constitution is in case the government becomes too overpowering, the people could take it over. Could common citezens fight and win against our own Police? That doens't even include the millitary. I posted this as an example of power that the Police are able to excersise. We are living in a state of tyranny.

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Shrapnelled

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#39 Shrapnelled
Member since 2007 • 332 Posts

[QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]thats no biggie,i've seen those around police stations around here in NYC,and just because of that one thing the US is a police state?does tiananmen square ring a bell?proctorsurf

No, it is one example of the power that the police have. The main reason that the second amendment is in the Constitution is in case the government becomes too overpowering, the people could take it over. Could common citezens fight and win against our own Police? That doens't even include the millitary. I posted this as an example of power that the Police are able to excersise. We are living in a state of tyranny.

Move to N. Korea, then get back to me.

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mlbslugger86

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#40 mlbslugger86
Member since 2004 • 12867 Posts

[QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]thats no biggie,i've seen those around police stations around here in NYC,and just because of that one thing the US is a police state?does tiananmen square ring a bell?proctorsurf

No, it is one example of the power that the police have. The main reason that the second amendment is in the Constitution is in case the government becomes too overpowering, the people could take it over. Could common citezens fight and win against our own Police? That doens't even include the millitary. I posted this as an example of power that the Police are able to excersise. We are living in a state of tyranny.

first off,calm down,and secondly we're not.i would actully agree with you if i saw m1 abrams tanks being used to disperse a crowd

and if you don't know what tiananmen square was,it a was student protest rally,and the chinese government called in the army and killed almost everybody that was there, a guy even almost got run over by one,now thats a police state.

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Shrapnelled

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#41 Shrapnelled
Member since 2007 • 332 Posts
[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]

[QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]thats no biggie,i've seen those around police stations around here in NYC,and just because of that one thing the US is a police state?does tiananmen square ring a bell?mlbslugger86

No, it is one example of the power that the police have. The main reason that the second amendment is in the Constitution is in case the government becomes too overpowering, the people could take it over. Could common citezens fight and win against our own Police? That doens't even include the millitary. I posted this as an example of power that the Police are able to excersise. We are living in a state of tyranny.

first off,calm down,and secondly we're not.i would actully agree with you if i saw m1 abrams tanks being used to disperse a crowd

and if you don't know what tiananmen square was,it a was student protest rally,and the chinese government called in the army and killed almost everybody that was there, a guy even almost got run over by one,now thats a police state.

Proctor is by definition Paranoid.  Or uneducated, because what we have is in fact one of the freest countries on the planet.  WHen I get worried, I'll let everyone know.

Until then, just vote Dem.

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LJS9502_basic

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#42 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180175 Posts

No, it is one example of the power that the police have. The main reason that the second amendment is in the Constitution is in case the government becomes too overpowering, the people could take it over. Could common citezens fight and win against our own Police? That doens't even include the millitary. I posted this as an example of power that the Police are able to excersise. We are living in a state of tyranny.

proctorsurf

Not to rain on your parade dude but the government military already has the capability to defeat the populace.  What the police have is immaterial when up against the Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard.;)

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proctorsurf

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#43 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts
[QUOTE="mlbslugger86"][QUOTE="proctorsurf"]

[QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]thats no biggie,i've seen those around police stations around here in NYC,and just because of that one thing the US is a police state?does tiananmen square ring a bell?Shrapnelled

No, it is one example of the power that the police have. The main reason that the second amendment is in the Constitution is in case the government becomes too overpowering, the people could take it over. Could common citezens fight and win against our own Police? That doens't even include the millitary. I posted this as an example of power that the Police are able to excersise. We are living in a state of tyranny.

first off,calm down,and secondly we're not.i would actully agree with you if i saw m1 abrams tanks being used to disperse a crowd

and if you don't know what tiananmen square was,it a was student protest rally,and the chinese government called in the army and killed almost everybody that was there, a guy even almost got run over by one,now thats a police state.

Proctor is by definition Paranoid.  Or uneducated, because what we have is in fact one of the freest countries on the planet.  WHen I get worried, I'll let everyone know.

Until then, just vote Dem.

I suggest you check out the meaning of cognitive dissonance. *sigh* when will the sheeple ever wake up?

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proctorsurf

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#44 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts
[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]

No, it is one example of the power that the police have. The main reason that the second amendment is in the Constitution is in case the government becomes too overpowering, the people could take it over. Could common citezens fight and win against our own Police? That doens't even include the millitary. I posted this as an example of power that the Police are able to excersise. We are living in a state of tyranny.

LJS9502_basic

Not to rain on your parade dude but the government military already has the capability to defeat the populace.  What the police have is immaterial when up against the Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard.;)

Yes, your right, and it further backs up my point of a overpowering government.

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stupiddk

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#45 stupiddk
Member since 2003 • 2377 Posts
This has been known since, well, forever. Welcome to our future ladies and gents. We have laws that are to be followed for our own safety. Abide and u will be fine.
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LJS9502_basic

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#46 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180175 Posts

Yes, your right, and it further backs up my point of a overpowering government.

proctorsurf

But as you can see.....they don't use the military against the citizens.  So rest easy.:)

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mark4091

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#47 mark4091
Member since 2007 • 3780 Posts

[QUOTE="firebird23"]How do any of you think this is cool? This vehicles can )and most likely, will) be used to infringe upon our sovereignty and our 4th amendment rights. What next, police in storm trooper riot gear tasing, gassing and clubbing peaceful protests? Oops, too late. Welcome to the world were state power reigns supreme.jointed

dude, 6 people were shot in 24 hours....that's why they used it....It's not like thoes are patrolling the streets instead of police cars...You really know nothing about this.....try to protest in china and see what happends....because that's real state power.

I don't think much of what the american government is doing....but come on, don't whine about a simple thing like this

exactly they are only being used so more people don't get killed.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#48 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
[QUOTE="proctorsurf"]

Yes, your right, and it further backs up my point of a overpowering government.

LJS9502_basic

But as you can see.....they don't use the military against the citizens.  So rest easy.:)

Posse Comitatus FTW
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proctorsurf

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#49 proctorsurf
Member since 2006 • 2779 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="proctorsurf"]

Yes, your right, and it further backs up my point of a overpowering government.

xaos

But as you can see.....they don't use the military against the citizens.  So rest easy.:)

Posse Comitatus FTW

Yes, unfortunetly it has been violated on multiple occasions by the current administration.

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LostProphetFLCL

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#50 LostProphetFLCL
Member since 2006 • 18526 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="proctorsurf"]

Yes, your right, and it further backs up my point of a overpowering government.

xaos

But as you can see.....they don't use the military against the citizens. So rest easy.:)

Posse Comitatus FTW

You do realize that no law against the government will mean **** if they decide to turn this into a facist state or something of the sort, right?

This is decently bad, but nothing compares to outrageusness of the Patriot Act, which has been abused MANY times, something the head of the FBI has admitted too.

With the way our government has been going, I do not trust them at all. I constantly see them going against the will of the people (hello why are we still in Iraq?)and they seem awfully pre-occupied with restricting our rights when they should be trying to help our economy. For Christs sake, there was a bill floating around congress to make flag burning illegal! Seriously, WTH....