What if Rated M games are banned?

  • 64 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts
What would you do and what is gonna happen to the world!
Avatar image for Mumbles527
Mumbles527

7706

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 Mumbles527
Member since 2004 • 7706 Posts
They wouldn't ever be, and if they were, I wouldn't really care.
Avatar image for blooddemon666
blooddemon666

22587

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 blooddemon666
Member since 2003 • 22587 Posts

banned for kids? or just banned to be developed in general?

and i think this would do better in general game discussion.

OT is a place for not game discussion

Avatar image for TheLastNight
TheLastNight

25

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 TheLastNight
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
I personally don't care. Games don't need sex, vulgar language, and a lot of blood and gore to be a good game.
Avatar image for ice_radon
ice_radon

70464

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#5 ice_radon
Member since 2002 • 70464 Posts
It wouldnt be the end of life because there are a lot of great T and E games, but it would be sad; yet I dont think that its ever going to happen...
Avatar image for tzar3
tzar3

12393

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#6 tzar3
Member since 2006 • 12393 Posts

I personally don't care. Games don't need sex, vulgar language, and a lot of blood and gore to be a good game.TheLastNight

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!??? I WOULD GO ON A RAMPAGE IF THEY BANNED M RATED GAMES!!!!!

Avatar image for TheLastNight
TheLastNight

25

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 TheLastNight
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts

[QUOTE="TheLastNight"]I personally don't care. Games don't need sex, vulgar language, and a lot of blood and gore to be a good game.tzar3

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!??? I WOULD GO ON A RAMPAGE IF THEY BANNED M RATED GAMES!!!!!

Well sorry for having a different opinion than you. I'll try to work on perfecting my opinions to match yours exactly. =[

Avatar image for zero030
zero030

814

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#8 zero030
Member since 2007 • 814 Posts
well if that happens its obvious that people will riot and commit violence since they can't in their games anymore:D
Avatar image for Def_Jef88
Def_Jef88

17441

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#9 Def_Jef88
Member since 2006 • 17441 Posts
Id move outta the States, before it makes its full transformation to communism.
Avatar image for kitty
kitty

115479

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#10 kitty  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 115479 Posts
it wont happen, evar
Avatar image for grassdream
grassdream

1902

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11 grassdream
Member since 2006 • 1902 Posts

OT is a place for not game discussion

blooddemon666

You're not the place for game discussion, punk.

Avatar image for MichaeltheCM
MichaeltheCM

22765

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 1

#12 MichaeltheCM
Member since 2005 • 22765 Posts
um there would be a lot of very angry people in the world but dont worry b/c i dont think it will ever happen. Adult games on the other hand... you never know (highly doubtful though)
Avatar image for blooddemon666
blooddemon666

22587

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 blooddemon666
Member since 2003 • 22587 Posts
[QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

OT is a place for not game discussion

grassdream

You're not the place for game discussion, punk.

I'd rather people not write stuff about video games on me
Avatar image for Deactivation
Deactivation

1026

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 Deactivation
Member since 2007 • 1026 Posts
Games don't need sex, vulgar language, and a lot of blood and gore to be a good game.TheLastNight


Neither do movies, music, and television. But you know what? The best ones do.
Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts

banned for kids? or just banned to be developed in general?

and i think this would do better in general game discussion.

OT is a place for not game discussion

blooddemon666
just banned to be developed in general.
Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts
it wont happen, evar2ndWonder
Can you 2wonder that. :D
Avatar image for Def_Jef88
Def_Jef88

17441

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#17 Def_Jef88
Member since 2006 • 17441 Posts
I personally don't care. Games don't need sex, vulgar language, and a lot of blood and gore to be a good game.TheLastNight
The fact that the government censoring stuff wouldnt bother someone really bothers me...
Avatar image for Mumbles527
Mumbles527

7706

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 Mumbles527
Member since 2004 • 7706 Posts
[QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

banned for kids? or just banned to be developed in general?

and i think this would do better in general game discussion.

OT is a place for not game discussion

mohan88
just banned to be developed in general.

By the worldwide committee of randomly banning things!?
Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts
[QUOTE="mohan88"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

banned for kids? or just banned to be developed in general?

and i think this would do better in general game discussion.

OT is a place for not game discussion

Mumbles527
just banned to be developed in general.

By the worldwide committee of randomly banning things!?

Let say they banned rated M games. ok now tell me what would you do. :D
Avatar image for AgileNate
AgileNate

2999

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20 AgileNate
Member since 2003 • 2999 Posts
Even though I don't judge a game by its rating I would protest that action because I want the option to play what I want. Anyone can learn more from reality than a game. I do think under age kids should have parental permission to get certain games as I know kids learn whats wrong before whats good and it becomes a mess. A Game wouldn't destroy a kids thoughts unless his guidance never takes time to teach whats needed to understand.
Avatar image for KiIIyou
KiIIyou

27204

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21 KiIIyou
Member since 2006 • 27204 Posts
[QUOTE="grassdream"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

OT is a place for not game discussion

blooddemon666

You're not the place for game discussion, punk.

I'd rather people not write stuff about video games on me

Your skin is just like parchment paper, I'll scribble a picture of Pikachu on your bum.
Avatar image for Mumbles527
Mumbles527

7706

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22 Mumbles527
Member since 2004 • 7706 Posts
[QUOTE="Mumbles527"][QUOTE="mohan88"][QUOTE="blooddemon666"]

banned for kids? or just banned to be developed in general?

and i think this would do better in general game discussion.

OT is a place for not game discussion

mohan88
just banned to be developed in general.

By the worldwide committee of randomly banning things!?

Let say they banned rated M games. ok now tell me what would you do. :D

Play games as often as I already do...just about never!
Avatar image for revolution2k6
revolution2k6

1446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 0

#23 revolution2k6
Member since 2005 • 1446 Posts
What would you do and what is gonna happen to the world!mohan88
some angry nerd would assasinate J.T
Avatar image for Canuck3000
Canuck3000

40562

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 Canuck3000
Member since 2004 • 40562 Posts
I'd play a ton more RPG games.
Avatar image for cheeseboy1993
cheeseboy1993

622

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 cheeseboy1993
Member since 2004 • 622 Posts

No halo 3 for 360, No MGS4 for PS3 = Wii is the overlord platform at profits

Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts

No halo 3 for 360, No MGS4 for PS3 = Wii is the overlord platform at profits

cheeseboy1993
LOL sad but true
Avatar image for whos_next000
whos_next000

11892

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 whos_next000
Member since 2006 • 11892 Posts
I would be a sad man. :(
Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts
I would be a sad man. :(whos_next000
You play Pokemon games don't you?
Avatar image for MrGeezer
MrGeezer

59765

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

What would you do and what is gonna happen to the world!mohan88

I wouldn't give a damn, because games are stupid.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder why gamers don't actually listen to what they're saying. They remind me of those KKK members who are always crying because they think the liberals and blacks are trying to eliminate whites.

I mean, come on. The videogame industry is not only more respected now than it's ever been, but the revenue generated from videogames rivals that of the movie industry. Why in the bloody hell are gamers afraid? What in the bloody hell makes them think that such a large industry would be severely restricted like that, ESPECIALLY after they're now starting to be respected by an ever larger segment of the general population?

Public talk about controversially violent videogames is a REACTION to how acceptable gaming has become. It's fearmongering designed to get attention. And that's it. This talk is almost exclusively reserved for popular games, never crappy POS games that only stupid people like. The reason people talk about THOSE games is because THEY ARE POPULAR. If they were talking about Spawn: The Game, no one would give a ****. So they mention titles like Halo, GTA, and the Sims because people will then say "hey, I either played that game or heard about it. I think I'll tune in to see what the controversy is about."

And that's all it's about. Ratings and publicity. Nothing will ever come of people trying to get rid of videogames. Because a hell of a lot of voters LOVE playing GTA and Doom, and the people who don't mostly don't give a **** about games. If you want these people to stop their anti-games crusades, then stop giving these people the attention that they seek. Videogames still make BILLIONS of dollars in profits because people WANT THEM. The only way violent videogames could ever possibly be banned is if people stop buying them. Which is never going to happen (at least, not on moral grounds).

So knock it off. Quit crying about how people are trying to take away your games, because that really just sounds silly and ignorant. And you'd be better off ignoring every dumbass thing that dumbasses like Jack Thompson say, because that just encourages them. If people ignore them, they will STHU.

And even in the EXTREMELY unlikely case that violent videogames get banned, so what? They're freaking videogames. So you can't play "Torture Fantasy 17" any more. So what? Get off the damn couch and go do something outside.

Avatar image for grassdream
grassdream

1902

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 grassdream
Member since 2006 • 1902 Posts

[QUOTE="mohan88"]What would you do and what is gonna happen to the world!MrGeezer

I wouldn't give a damn, because games are stupid.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder why gamers don't actually listen to what they're saying. They remind me of those KKK members who are always crying because they think the liberals and blacks are trying to eliminate whites.

I mean, come on. The videogame industry is not only more respected now than it's ever been, but the revenue generated from videogames rivals that of the movie industry. Why in the bloody hell are gamers afraid? What in the bloody hell makes them think that such a large industry would be severely restricted like that, ESPECIALLY after they're now starting to be respected by an ever larger segment of the general population?

Public talk about controversially violent videogames is a REACTION to how acceptable gaming has become. It's fearmongering designed to get attention. And that's it. This talk is almost exclusively reserved for popular games, never crappy POS games that only stupid people like. The reason people talk about THOSE games is because THEY ARE POPULAR. If they were talking about Spawn: The Game, no one would give a ****. So they mention titles like Halo, GTA, and the Sims because people will then say "hey, I either played that game or heard about it. I think I'll tune in to see what the controversy is about."

And that's all it's about. Ratings and publicity. Nothing will ever come of people trying to get rid of videogames. Because a hell of a lot of voters LOVE playing GTA and Doom, and the people who don't mostly don't give a **** about games. If you want these people to stop their anti-games crusades, then stop giving these people the attention that they seek. Videogames still make BILLIONS of dollars in profits because people WANT THEM. The only way violent videogames could ever possibly be banned is if people stop buying them. Which is never going to happen (at least, not on moral grounds).

So knock it off. Quit crying about how people are trying to take away your games, because that really just sounds silly and ignorant. And you'd be better off ignoring every dumbass thing that dumbasses like Jack Thompson say, because that just encourages them. If people ignore them, they will STHU.

And even in the EXTREMELY unlikely case that violent videogames get banned, so what? They're freaking videogames. So you can't play "Torture Fantasy 17" any more. So what? Get off the damn couch and go do something outside.

Just a bored kid asking a question man, chill out.

Avatar image for Def_Jef88
Def_Jef88

17441

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#31 Def_Jef88
Member since 2006 • 17441 Posts
[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="mohan88"]What would you do and what is gonna happen to the world!grassdream

I wouldn't give a damn, because games are stupid.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder why gamers don't actually listen to what they're saying. They remind me of those KKK members who are always crying because they think the liberals and blacks are trying to eliminate whites.

I mean, come on. The videogame industry is not only more respected now than it's ever been, but the revenue generated from videogames rivals that of the movie industry. Why in the bloody hell are gamers afraid? What in the bloody hell makes them think that such a large industry would be severely restricted like that, ESPECIALLY after they're now starting to be respected by an ever larger segment of the general population?

Public talk about controversially violent videogames is a REACTION to how acceptable gaming has become. It's fearmongering designed to get attention. And that's it. This talk is almost exclusively reserved for popular games, never crappy POS games that only stupid people like. The reason people talk about THOSE games is because THEY ARE POPULAR. If they were talking about Spawn: The Game, no one would give a ****. So they mention titles like Halo, GTA, and the Sims because people will then say "hey, I either played that game or heard about it. I think I'll tune in to see what the controversy is about."

And that's all it's about. Ratings and publicity. Nothing will ever come of people trying to get rid of videogames. Because a hell of a lot of voters LOVE playing GTA and Doom, and the people who don't mostly don't give a **** about games. If you want these people to stop their anti-games crusades, then stop giving these people the attention that they seek. Videogames still make BILLIONS of dollars in profits because people WANT THEM. The only way violent videogames could ever possibly be banned is if people stop buying them. Which is never going to happen (at least, not on moral grounds).

So knock it off. Quit crying about how people are trying to take away your games, because that really just sounds silly and ignorant. And you'd be better off ignoring every dumbass thing that dumbasses like Jack Thompson say, because that just encourages them. If people ignore them, they will STHU.

And even in the EXTREMELY unlikely case that violent videogames get banned, so what? They're freaking videogames. So you can't play "Torture Fantasy 17" any more. So what? Get off the damn couch and go do something outside.

Just a bored kid asking a question man, chill out.

My thoughts exactly. The question waas "What if M Rated games get banned" not " What is your veiw on the gaming industry as a whole and the chance that violent video games might be censored in the future"
Avatar image for XheavensmileX
XheavensmileX

867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32 XheavensmileX
Member since 2007 • 867 Posts
The good M-rated games would likely just have reduced violent content to make it T-rated. Besides if a game isnt fun without very violent content then it isnt a good game anyway.
Avatar image for Def_Jef88
Def_Jef88

17441

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#33 Def_Jef88
Member since 2006 • 17441 Posts
The good M-rated games would likely just have reduced violent content to make it T-rated. Besides if a game isnt fun without very violent content then it isnt a good game anyway.XheavensmileX
Manhunt, GTA, MGS.... :|
Avatar image for Devouring_One
Devouring_One

32312

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 36

User Lists: 0

#34 Devouring_One
Member since 2004 • 32312 Posts
if they were banned. people would go crazy and put pressure on politicians to rerelease them
Avatar image for Azn_PlayBoi323
Azn_PlayBoi323

1076

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#36 Azn_PlayBoi323
Member since 2005 • 1076 Posts

[QUOTE="TheLastNight"]I personally don't care. Games don't need sex, vulgar language, and a lot of blood and gore to be a good game.tzar3

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!??? I WOULD GO ON A RAMPAGE IF THEY BANNED M RATED GAMES!!!!!

Same here,but they cant ban them for us adults only for kids.Banning them for us would violate our rights.

Avatar image for Honenheim
Honenheim

5402

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#37 Honenheim
Member since 2007 • 5402 Posts
that will never happen considering too much money will be lost by developers and 3rd party developers publishers ...etc
Avatar image for HostileEffect
HostileEffect

2491

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 HostileEffect
Member since 2006 • 2491 Posts
If Rated M games are banned in the U.S then I will probably move to France. The last place on earth that I would want to live in is the United Kindom...
Avatar image for lilburtonboy748
lilburtonboy748

2536

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#39 lilburtonboy748
Member since 2007 • 2536 Posts
Rated M games are my favorite because of realism. For an example, i don't want to play medal of honor frontline.The dday mission when you see some guy get shot, there's no blood, he just falls on the ground and says ouch! Now honestly, D-day was so ridiculously nasty, and i want to play through that. I want someone to get blown 20 feet up in the air and have his legs hit the ground 4 seconds after the rest of the body. And as he gets hit i better hear him yell F***!! because that is what it was really like. M rated games should not be in the hands of kids, but they add lots of realism, and government involvement with this is ridiculous. All that it does is take the responsibilty off the parents and puts it on the government. Hello, where are the parents in all of this!! Moral issues shouldn't be resolved by taking the temptation away, it should be having no desire of such, and responsiblities of parents making sure their kids dont get the content is the real case here.
Avatar image for whos_next000
whos_next000

11892

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40 whos_next000
Member since 2006 • 11892 Posts
[QUOTE="whos_next000"]I would be a sad man. :(mohan88
You play Pokemon games don't you?

Sometimes. I play MGS and Halo and Max Payne and GTA stuff, too, though. But mostly, I just love mudkips.
Avatar image for XheavensmileX
XheavensmileX

867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41 XheavensmileX
Member since 2007 • 867 Posts
[QUOTE="XheavensmileX"]The good M-rated games would likely just have reduced violent content to make it T-rated. Besides if a game isnt fun without very violent content then it isnt a good game anyway.Def_Jef88
Manhunt, GTA, MGS.... :|

I think those games would be awesome even without very violent content but Yeah, Cant imagine GTA with T-rated content.
Avatar image for Def_Jef88
Def_Jef88

17441

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#42 Def_Jef88
Member since 2006 • 17441 Posts
[QUOTE="Def_Jef88"][QUOTE="XheavensmileX"]The good M-rated games would likely just have reduced violent content to make it T-rated. Besides if a game isnt fun without very violent content then it isnt a good game anyway.XheavensmileX
Manhunt, GTA, MGS.... :|

I think those games would be awesome even without very violent content but Yeah, Cant imagine GTA with T-rated content.

Id rather have MGS die then be toned down. The best part is when you shoot someone in the neck and blood gushes out.
Avatar image for whos_next000
whos_next000

11892

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43 whos_next000
Member since 2006 • 11892 Posts
[QUOTE="XheavensmileX"]The good M-rated games would likely just have reduced violent content to make it T-rated. Besides if a game isnt fun without very violent content then it isnt a good game anyway.Def_Jef88
Manhunt, GTA, MGS.... :|

Manhunt isn't really that great. GTA would really suck without violent content. MGS could probably survive without blood, though. That might knock it down to T.
Avatar image for blackrytonite
blackrytonite

17172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 15

User Lists: 0

#44 blackrytonite
Member since 2006 • 17172 Posts
Oh noes, what ever would we do? :roll:
Avatar image for XheavensmileX
XheavensmileX

867

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#45 XheavensmileX
Member since 2007 • 867 Posts
[QUOTE="XheavensmileX"][QUOTE="Def_Jef88"][QUOTE="XheavensmileX"]The good M-rated games would likely just have reduced violent content to make it T-rated. Besides if a game isnt fun without very violent content then it isnt a good game anyway.Def_Jef88
Manhunt, GTA, MGS.... :|

I think those games would be awesome even without very violent content but Yeah, Cant imagine GTA with T-rated content.

Id rather have MGS die then be toned down. The best part is when you shoot someone in the neck and blood gushes out.

Id be alright playing T-rated MGS but everyone has their own opinion I suppose.
Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts
[QUOTE="mohan88"][QUOTE="whos_next000"]I would be a sad man. :(whos_next000
You play Pokemon games don't you?

Sometimes. I play MGS and Halo and Max Payne and GTA stuff, too, though. But mostly, I just love mudkips.

O be quiet you only play Pokemon games. ;)
Avatar image for mohan88
mohan88

4839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47 mohan88
Member since 2006 • 4839 Posts
if they were banned. people would go crazy and put pressure on politicians to rerelease themDevouring_One
I don't think that's gonna happen
Avatar image for fidosim
fidosim

12901

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 15

User Lists: 0

#48 fidosim
Member since 2003 • 12901 Posts
Nobody's taking my Company of Heroes away, dammit! I especially love when a poor german takes a direct artillery hit.
Avatar image for linkthewindow
linkthewindow

5654

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#49 linkthewindow
Member since 2005 • 5654 Posts
Nobody's taking my Company of Heroes away, dammit! I especially love when a poor german takes a direct artillery hit.fidosim
Same here. If M rated games where banned, say hello to a M-rated games pirate industry, Congress :P. And, it would make them like drugs-more desirable because they are banned.
Avatar image for Rekunta
Rekunta

8275

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 21

User Lists: 0

#50 Rekunta
Member since 2002 • 8275 Posts
The black market would supply?