What is the big deal with abortion?

IMO one of the worst things is being an unwanted child. That would just completely damage you. Is it not your own choice whether you keep your own child?

If a women is raped, she has to live the rest of her single handily raising a child she didn't want?

I would rather not been born at all then being a child that my own parents did or do not want.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

not again :(

Its a big deal because those against it see it as a murder equivalent to me going down the street and killing someone.

IMO one of the worst things is being an unwanted child. That would just completely damage you.

thelastguy

I know. I would hate to be aborted just because I was unwanted.

To play devil's advocate, a life is a life, regardless of how it came to be.

IMO one of the worst things is being an unwanted child.

thelastguy

We have adoption agencies for a reason.

The big deal with prenatal infanticide is people are doing exactly what we did with slavery: defining people as "not people" for the sake of convenience and killing them with semantics so as not to burden our conscience.

Some people happen to have a problem with this.

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

IMO one of the worst things is being an unwanted child.

Theokhoth

We have adoption agencies for a reason.

The big deal with prenatal infanticide is people are doing exactly what we did with slavery: defining people as "not people" for the sake of convenience and killing them with semantics so as not to burden our conscience.

Things like this make me incredibly angry... ugh...

I agree btw.

[QUOTE="thelastguy"]

IMO one of the worst things is being an unwanted child.

Theokhoth

We have adoption agencies for a reason.

The big deal with prenatal infanticide is people are doing exactly what we did with slavery: defining people as "not people" for the sake of convenience and killing them with semantics so as not to burden our conscience.

I never thought of it like that. Nice job Theokhoth!

Though I was always against it, I've never seen the argument put that way.

I'll start taking conservative's stances on abortion seriously when they start supporting day-care funding, education funding, universal parental leave with mandatory pay, and bonuses to those who put children up for adoption.

Until they're willing to support the mother/family that could have had an abortion, their view is null IMHO.

I'll start taking conservative's stances on abortion seriously when they start supporting day-care funding, education funding, universal parental leave with mandatory pay, and bonuses to those who put children up for adoption.

Until they're willing to support the mother/family that could have had an abortion, their view is null IMHO.

Lockedge

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]

I'll start taking conservative's stances on abortion seriously when they start supporting day-care funding, education funding, universal parental leave with mandatory pay, and bonuses to those who put children up for adoption.

Until they're willing to support the mother/family that could have had an abortion, their view is null IMHO.

jim_shorts

Yeah...that's strange. I'm sure they are plenty of liberals against abortion.

So basically:

Against Abortion: MURDER!

For Abortion: CHOICE!

The way I see it is those who are against abortion are forcing their views onto others. Those for abortion mostly want to allow the woman to have a choice of not having a kid vs. having the kid.

That being said, I'm against abortion if the woman was just sleeping around or something and then gets pregnant. If having the baby would be dangerous to the woman's health, or it was rape or incest, then I think they should have the choice.

It's murder, that's the big deal. jim_shorts

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]It's murder, that's the big deal. Vandalvideo

Sadly, justice and the law are often tow different things.jim_shorts

I'll start taking conservative's stances on abortion seriously when they start supporting day-care funding, education funding, universal parental leave with mandatory pay, and bonuses to those who put children up for adoption.

Until they're willing to support the mother/family that could have had an abortion, their view is null IMHO.

Lockedge

I see your point and agree more should be done. I'm doing my part at least in at least hopefully being able to counsel women in the future as well as hoping to be able to adopt one day if that's any consultation.

Because some see it as morally wrong. I personally believe that ultimately, it is the woman's choice. It is her body after all. However, I don't think a woman should abort a child without first considering what her partner's view on it is. socked_feet

But it's really not her body. It's about the childs body. There are 2 bodies at play here. You might take the side of the mother and say it's her choice to kill her kid or not. I take the side of the innocent unborn child.

I take the side of the innocent unborn child. The_Mac_Daddy

Isn't it true the baby doesn't have a brain or no form of nerve system for 3 months or something. So technically its not alive and woudn't feel any pain. if a woman has a choice to bring a child into this world, shoudn't it have the choice to take it out before it's actually alive?I-am-the-Panda

If you want to get technical about it, then if it wasn't alive it would not be growing. Therefore it is growing and its cells are multiplying then it must be alive. It should not matter if it can feel pain or not as soon as the egg and sperm join together it should be considered human.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]I take the side of the innocent unborn child. Vandalvideo

So the mother's convenience is more important than the life of a child?...

I say make premarital sex illegal but I suppose there is no chance of that happening...

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]

I'll start taking conservative's stances on abortion seriously when they start supporting day-care funding, education funding, universal parental leave with mandatory pay, and bonuses to those who put children up for adoption.

Until they're willing to support the mother/family that could have had an abortion, their view is null IMHO.

viewtiful26

Yeah...that's strange. I'm sure they are plenty of liberals against abortion.

Maybe it's because I live in a very conservative, military town, but it seems the most outspoken against abortion are conservatives who want to cut funding to all "special interests", which tend to include everything that doesn't have anything to do with them, and everything that negatively affects them. Most liberals I know who are pro-life support getting rid of abortion, but also setting up large funding for programs to help people transition from abortion to adoption/parenthood.

People who say "You can't abort that child! And you don't deserve those day-care spots, or paid maternity leave! f you don't want the kid, put it up for adoption, but heck if I'm going to help you cover the costs of the pregnancy or give you anything for going through the process! Shouldn't got knocked up!" tend to get me a tad angry. And yes, all of those statements are ones I've heard in my area numerous times, usually by a neighbour of mine. :P

I personally think it's a private family matter, but like hell if I'm going to push my opinion on anyone, or force it down their throats.

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"]Sadly, justice and the law are often tow different things.Vandalvideo

Yes, just like the laws that endorsed slavery. Laws can be corrupt and unjust.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]I take the side of the innocent unborn child. Vandalvideo

Yes I have placed more respect on the child. Why? Because the child is innocent. Only in the case of rape would I feel it would be the mothers choice.

So the mother's desire is more important than the life of a child?...mindstorm

Yes I have placed more respect on the child. Why? Because the child is innocent. Only in the case of rape would I feel it would be the mothers choice. The_Mac_Daddy

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]I take the side of the innocent unborn child. mindstorm

So the mother's convenience is more important than the life of a child?...

I say make premarital sex illegal but I suppose there is no chance of that happening...

Well I wouldn't go as far as making premarital sex illegal. That's very extreme.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="jim_shorts"]Sadly, justice and the law are often tow different things.Genetic_Code

Yes, just like the laws that endorsed slavery. Laws can be corrupt and unjust.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]Yes I have placed more respect on the child. Why? Because the child is innocent. Only in the case of rape would I feel it would be the mothers choice. Vandalvideo

Neither one is more important. That is why the mother doesn't have the right to take the life of her child. She is not more important. The child is the innocent one. In this case, I side with the child. That doesn't mean one is more important than the other.

Making abortion illegal isn't going to stop people from getting abortions; instead, abortions will be performed in backalleys with sharp, rusty objects (more frequently).

So why not keep it legal, so that women can receive abortions from certified abortion clinics? At least we won't be risking the lives of the women.

Neither one is more important. That is why the mother doesn't have the right to take the life of her child. She is not more important. The child is the innocent one. In this case, I side with the child. That doesn't mean one is more important than the other. The_Mac_Daddy

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]I take the side of the innocent unborn child. The_Mac_Daddy

So the mother's convenience is more important than the life of a child?...

I say make premarital sex illegal but I suppose there is no chance of that happening...

Well I wouldn't go as far as making premarital sex illegal. That's very extreme.

If a woman engages in sex then she should live with the repercussions... If she wants no child then simply abstain from sex. I'm aware rape is not by choice but only a small portion of abortions are as a result of rape.

Making abortion illegal isn't going to stop people from getting abortions; instead, abortions will be performed in backalleys with sharp, rusty objects (more frequently).

So why not keep it legal, so that women can receive abortions from certified abortion clinics? At least we won't be risking the lives of the women.

Greatgone12

This is the only good pro-choice argument I've seen and admittedly, I have not seen a good argument to refute this.

Making abortion illegal isn't going to stop people from getting abortions; instead, abortions will be performed in backalleys with sharp, rusty objects (more frequently).

So why not keep it legal, so that women can receive abortions from certified abortion clinics? At least we won't be risking the lives of the women.

Greatgone12

The rate of backalley abortions has barely gone down in the thirty years abortion has been legal in the United States.:roll:

And, not to be extreme, but one could argue that, morally, the woman would deserve whatever negative outcome occurs due to her crime.

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"]

Making abortion illegal isn't going to stop people from getting abortions; instead, abortions will be performed in backalleys with sharp, rusty objects (more frequently).

So why not keep it legal, so that women can receive abortions from certified abortion clinics? At least we won't be risking the lives of the women.

Genetic_Code

This is the only good pro-choice argument I've seen and admittedly, I have not seen a good argument to refute this.

Why is it people are seeking to get rid of the side effect rather than fix the root of the problem? The topic of abortion wouldn't be an issue if people simply kept their pants on...

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]

I'll start taking conservative's stances on abortion seriously when they start supporting day-care funding, education funding, universal parental leave with mandatory pay, and bonuses to those who put children up for adoption.

Until they're willing to support the mother/family that could have had an abortion, their view is null IMHO.

mindstorm

I see your point and agree more should be done. I'm doing my part at least in at least hopefully being able to counsel women in the future as well as hoping to be able to adopt one day if that's any consultation.

Aye. So long as people recognize that getting rid of abortion, and not providing a bridge for people to cross in the process, is a dangerous road to travel down. If abortion was canned right now, with no programs or funding to help people through, then people would still have as many abortions, just using more dangerous practices and doing them in more dangerous places.If people truly want to whittle people off of abortion, and truly care for the live they want to save, they'll support programs that help bridge the gap towards adoption(more likely) or parenthood(less likely, but more complex). If people are to be told that there are other ways than abortion, they need better options than they have in the present, and they need to be helped through them.

So long as people are aware of the issues that would arise if abortion was canned, and are in favor of helping out, I've got full respect for them. I personally believe it's the woman's right to choose, but if enough provisions are made to cancel that out, then I won't be absolutely furious if abortion got cut. Only a ways incendiary. :P

I'd also consider adoption in the future, if the right opportunity comes up that is.

The topic of abortion wouldn't be an issue if people simply kept their pants on... mindstorm

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]Neither one is more important. That is why the mother doesn't have the right to take the life of her child. She is not more important. The child is the innocent one. In this case, I side with the child. That doesn't mean one is more important than the other. Vandalvideo

That is hardly the point. I can't choose one to be more important. That's like asking if there was a mother and a child in a burning building and I only had to save 1, which would I save. That hardly has anything to do with abortion.

Oh, and fyi, with the burning building, I would save the child.

I think that the big problem is that some people view abortion as murder. Murder is largely considered to be morally abhorrent.

That being said I would not think that an abortion constitutes a murder.

That is hardly the point. I can't choose one to be more important. That's like asking if there was a mother and a child in a burning building and I only had to save 1, which would I save. That hardly has anything to do with abortion.The_Mac_Daddy

Why is it people are seeking to get rid of the side effect rather than fix the root of the problem? The topic of abortion wouldn't be an issue if people simply kept their pants on...

mindstorm

True.

The rate of backalley abortions has barely gone down in the thirty years abortion has been legal in the United States.:roll:

And, not to be extreme, but one could argue that, morally, the woman would deserve whatever negative outcome occurs due to her crime.

Theokhoth

Good point. :oops:

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]

I'll start taking conservative's stances on abortion seriously when they start supporting day-care funding, education funding, universal parental leave with mandatory pay, and bonuses to those who put children up for adoption.

Until they're willing to support the mother/family that could have had an abortion, their view is null IMHO.

Lockedge

I see your point and agree more should be done. I'm doing my part at least in at least hopefully being able to counsel women in the future as well as hoping to be able to adopt one day if that's any consultation.

Aye. So long as people recognize that getting rid of abortion, and not providing a bridge for people to cross in the process, is a dangerous road to travel down. If abortion was canned right now, with no programs or funding to help people through, then people would still have as many abortions, just using more dangerous practices and doing them in more dangerous places.If people truly want to whittle people off of abortion, and truly care for the live they want to save, they'll support programs that help bridge the gap towards adoption(more likely) or parenthood(less likely, but more complex). If people are to be told that there are other ways than abortion, they need better options than they have in the present, and they need to be helped through them.

So long as people are aware of the issues that would arise if abortion was canned, and are in favor of helping out, I've got full respect for them. I personally believe it's the woman's right to choose, but if enough provisions are made to cancel that out, then I won't be absolutely furious if abortion got cut. Only a ways incendiary. :P

I'd also consider adoption in the future, if the right opportunity comes up that is.

Good point and I agree.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]The topic of abortion wouldn't be an issue if people simply kept their pants on... Vandalvideo

Then be aware of the possible outcomes and do not run away if those outcomes arise. Face the responsibility you are giving yourself. If one does indeed engage in sexual activities then live with the possible consequences.