What's harder? Human languages or programming languages?

I would guess programming since our brains are wired for spoken language.

I would guess programming since our brains are wired for spoken language.

Pirate700

human language is certainly more complex, but our brain is much better adapted for it based on its integral role during human evolution.

programming language while relatively simple, requires advanced logic and reasoning. Thats not something our brains are innately equipped to handle, as outside of "throw sharp stick at animal" there was no evolutionary requirement for anything beyond simple logic.

Human languages by far.

Programming languages can be mastered with an understanding of digital logic, a manual, and some practice built around trial and error.

Human languages can be approached, but not mastered, without much more effort than the average programming language, along with more exposure and much more practice of its use in daily life.

I learned to speak Spanish starting in High School and continued to now, but there are still things I don't quite get when speaking with native speakers. I started programming well before High School. I can master almost programming language relatively quickly... at least any that I tried. I can't just go pick up any language though without a lot more effort and constant practice and study, as I discovered when starting on Hebrew several years ago.

Human languages no contest. Many of today's programming languages follow the same general rules, not to mention that advanced IDEs and compilers in addition to comprehensive, high-level instruction sets made modern programming languages much more accessible and easier. With human languages they differ greatly and have little to nothing in common. Different alphabets, grammar rules, language constructs and cultures make human languages quite hard to master from an objective point of view. Of course it depends on the individual, his intellectual capabilities and readiness to learn human languages.GazaAli

As evidenced by that paragraph, your English has improved tremendously since a few years ago.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Human languages no contest. Many of today's programming languages follow the same general rules, not to mention that advanced IDEs and compilers in addition to comprehensive, high-level instruction sets made modern programming languages much more accessible and easier. With human languages they differ greatly and have little to nothing in common. Different alphabets, grammar rules, language constructs and cultures make human languages quite hard to master from an objective point of view. Of course it depends on the individual, his intellectual capabilities and readiness to learn human languages.m0zart

As evidenced by that paragraph, your English has improved tremendously since a few years ago.

Human languages by far.

Programming languages can be mastered with an understanding of digital logic, a manual, and some practice built around trial and error.

Human languages can be approached, but not mastered, without much more effort than the average programming language, along with more exposure and much more practice of its use in daily life.

I learned to speak Spanish starting in High School and continued to now, but there are still things I don't quite get when speaking with native speakers. I started programming well before High School. I can master almost programming language relatively quickly... at least any that I tried. I can't just go pick up any language though without a lot more effort and constant practice and study, as I discovered when starting on Hebrew several years ago.

m0zart

Mastered programming languages my ass. Most people can communicate without the need for aids or reference material. Few people can write code without needing to lookup functions or syntax.

You telling me you can just open notepad and code any program asked of you? That you can just write lines of code with the same ease you can write lines of english? You must be one of the top programmers in the world.

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

Human languages by far.

Programming languages can be mastered with an understanding of digital logic, a manual, and some practice built around trial and error.

Human languages can be approached, but not mastered, without much more effort than the average programming language, along with more exposure and much more practice of its use in daily life.

I learned to speak Spanish starting in High School and continued to now, but there are still things I don't quite get when speaking with native speakers. I started programming well before High School. I can master almost programming language relatively quickly... at least any that I tried. I can't just go pick up any language though without a lot more effort and constant practice and study, as I discovered when starting on Hebrew several years ago.

BeardMaster

Mastered programming languages my ass. Most people can communicate without the need for aids or reference material. Few people can write code without needing to lookup functions or syntax.

You telling me you can just open notepad and code any program asked of you? That you can just write lines of code with the same ease you can write lines of english? You must be one of the top programmers in the world.

It depends on if you're a left or a right brained thinker.

As someone that actually did a Computer Science degree, I'd have to go with human languages. To be able to speak, write and communicate fluently in human languages takes MUCH more practice than that of a programming language.

Human languages are considerably harder; The number of words, inconsistent rules of grammar and syntax, expressions, colloquial vs formal speech, linguistics, etc.

Programming languages may be difficult to understand the first one since its heavily based off logic and math. But any programmer that has a good understanding of one programming can become extremely proficient in any other programming language in about 2 months of solid practice. Much of the core concepts are the same.

The average person cannot become even close to functionally literate in an entirely dissimilar language in two months.

Human. I've taken only one C++ class and everything makes logical sense. You can pick up a book and become decently good at it. I spent four years in a french class and although I didn't try that hard, I did put a good amount of effort in. I barely remember anything about it now.

Mastered programming languages my ass. Most people can communicate without the need for aids or reference material. Few people can write code without needing to lookup functions or syntax.

You telling me you can just open notepad and code any program asked of you? That you can just write lines of code with the same ease you can write lines of english? You must be one of the top programmers in the world.BeardMaster

I am telling you that you can open a manual, read the manual, write simple programs on a computer and progressively rise up that way, until you have essentially mastered the language... yes, I am telling you that. I know that from experience.

That doesn't mean you will know all the best data structures or algorithms to use for a particular process. Nobody goes in to an OO languge for instance for the first time and realizes immediately why a factory or a singleton is a good pattern that can be used in a variety of ways, or when precisely to use it, but they know the language and could write one if they had to and understood what makes one up.

Even English, my first language, isn't as easy for me to write paragraphs for than the average programming language is to write an algorithm.

And no... I doubt I am one of the top programmers of the world. I am considerably well paid but I could certainly stand to do with that independent wealth that the top programmers are often rewarded with. If I were one of the top programmers in the world, I wouldn't have even responded to this due to the skew.

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]Mastered programming languages my ass. Most people can communicate without the need for aids or reference material. Few people can write code without needing to lookup functions or syntax.

You telling me you can just open notepad and code any program asked of you? That you can just write lines of code with the same ease you can write lines of english? You must be one of the top programmers in the world.m0zart

I am telling you that you can open a manual, read the manual, write simple programs on a computer and progressively rise up that way, until you have essentially mastered the language... yes, I am telling you that. I know that from experience.

That doesn't mean you will know all the best data structures or algorithms to use for a particular process. Nobody goes in to an OO languge for instance for the first time and realizes immediately why a factory or a singleton is a good pattern that can be used in a variety of ways, or when precisely to use it, but they know the language and could write one if they had to and understood what makes one up.

Even English, my first language, isn't as easy for me to write paragraphs for than the average programming language is to write an algorithm.

And no... I doubt I am one of the top programmers of the world. I am considerably well paid but I could certainly stand to do with that independent wealth that the top programmers are often rewarded with. If I were one of the top programmers in the world, I wouldn't have even responded to this due to the skew.

Well i think you might be a special case.

For most people, writing a paragraph is easy.

Programming languages.

I'm currently studying programing at uni and I've attempted to learn languages in the past and I am much better at programing in the few months I've been studying than the years I did of French and German.

Well, the prospect of mastering a programming language seems much, MUCH more feasible than mastering a different language based on my experience attempting both.

Well i think you might be a special case.

For most people, writing a paragraph is easy.BeardMaster

It's easy for me to write a paragraph in English, just not as easy as writing an algorithm in just about any language I know. What the algorithm demands in precision it lacks in fuzzy logic. It's easy to be exacting when you know you have to be rather than fluid with new languages and cultures.

I also had a strong interest in foreign language, and I learned Spanish as a result... in an area where one could count the resident Hispanohablantes on one hand and have fingers left over. I had an obsessive interest in it and also studied French and German, which despite a lot of effort and time didn't really pay off as well.

So I do have some experience in this, and I feel confident in what I am saying about the two subjects.

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]Well i think you might be a special case.

For most people, writing a paragraph is easy.m0zart

It's easy for me to write a paragraph in English, just not as easy as writing an algorithm in just about any language I know. What the algorithm demands in precision it lacks in fuzzy logic. It's easy to be exacting when you know you have to be rather than fluid with new languages and cultures.

I also had a strong interest in foreign language, and I learned Spanish as a result... in an area where one could count the resident Hispanohablantes on one hand and have fingers left over. I had an obsessive interest in it and also studied French and German, which despite a lot of effort and time didn't really pay off as well.

So I do have some experience in this, and I feel confident in what I am saying about the two subjects.

Well there are alot of bilingual 5 year olds, not a ton of 5 year olds writing algorithms... i think this might just be a personal thing.

I can master almost programming language relatively quickly... at least any that I tried.

m0zart

What programming languages do you know?

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

I can master almost programming language relatively quickly... at least any that I tried.

Lance2500

What programming languages do you know?

ForTran, Pascal (Turbo was the most prolific version and the one I enjoyed the most), Java, BASIC (various forms over the last 30 years), LisP (again, Turbo was the most prolific and enjoyable version), C, C++, a good bit of most Objective C lately (though somewhat against my will), several forms of Assembly Language specific to various chipsets (the first of which was a Ti-99/4A), and scripting languages such as Perl and Ruby... I can't remember how many at this point I've had to learn or wanted to learn at various points in my hobby years and my career.

The companies I've worked for have nearly all been tied up in multi-platform development, which has helped me to become very interface-driven over the years and has also helped me to be relatively proficient at designing and coding large systems for multiple platforms. However, in the last eight years or so, the distributed systems division moved almost entirely away from ForTran, C, C++, and various assembly-based coding to Java. I was extremely skeptical of this as my dealings with Java back in the pre-Hotspot days left a lot to be desired. One of the first things I ever did when Java was basically new to me was translate a C and Assembly based driver which would rasterize a proprietary metafile into Java. The C version and Java version looked nearly identical outside of the usual OO-izing of the code structure, yet the Java version ran many orders of magnitude slower, to the point that it was unusable. Nothing worked outside of changing the conversion routines back into C (and inline Assembly in some cases) and adapting them into JNI calls. And if you're doing that, you should consider writing all native code in many cases.

However, a lot can happen in a few years. Java now is very fast -- still not quite as fast as coding in languages compiled into native binary files and executables (a recent rewrite of a Java-based SSO agent into a C-based SSO Apache module gave me some stark reminders), but pretty fast and certainly usable. The downside is that Java is so ... easy. That has it's upsides and its downsides. Almost none of the work I used to face in various tasks is there anymore because it's all tied up in code dependent on the JDK and its various libraries. I spend a lot more time now code reviewing the work that others in my team do and attempting to keep everything in line, as well as working hard to keep the interfaces from changing in such a way as to break existing integrations, inside the company and among customers. Managing deprecation cycles though isn't fun. So my job is much less fun and satisfying than it once was.

My company though has divisions in both mainframe and distributed system software, giving a good bit of opportunity to expand my skills to the mainframe side. I'm looking into making a transition to that rather than just helping those guys out from time to time. I'd rather investigate it a bit more before I bite that hook though.

Anyway, why do you ask?

I have a difficult time believing learning any programming language comes close to the years of constant work I've put into learning Chinese Hanzi(characters) and I'm far from fluent. Even the most modest modern languages have over 100,000 unique words. English has somewhere upwards of 1,000,000

Neither are as hard as my dick.

I would guess programming since our brains are wired for spoken language.

Pirate700

human language

Human languages are far more complex. I would go into explaining why, but people here have already posted good explanations. I will simply say that human languages are more difficult because humans are complex things, whilst computers on the other hand are very simple and crude machines at their core, relying on the sheer speed of their computations to achieve anything the least bit interesting.

Not even comparable, human languages. Programming languages are created to make sense.

human language, outside of romance languages, it is pretty hard. programming on the other hand is hard but once you are accustomed to it, it's a breeze.

To me it has been programming.

A language I can see in writing, but I can also hear it meaning I can take it in 2 different ways and that helps me mimic it better. Programming is all sight and reading memory based.