When does a band sell out?

I think this term is thrown around too much, people thought that the clash sold out after their album London calling, and especially Sandinista! Everyone seems to love london calling but hate Sandinista. I personally love both, London calling, and Sandinista show how diverse of a band The Clash were compared to most punk bands. One of the few bands that sold out to me are Genesis after Peter Gabriel left the band. I respect Phil collins as a drummer, but he is an awful songwriter compared to Peter Gabriel. Genesis turned from one of the best and most influencial progressive rock bands ever, into a freaking pop band. Its a good thing Peter Gabriel had a solo career that is much better than phil collins has ever done. There is a big difference between selling out and changing styles to make a band sound more interesting. The Clash did not sell out, Genesis did.

As soon as the fan take it uponm themselves to expect something out of an act THAT ISN'T THERE'S TO CONTROL.

"This band did something I don;t like, they totally sold out!"
"This game/movie/book/celebrity went in a direction I don't like, they totally sold out!"

It's just a way for self-righteous people who don't enjoy things for their purpose, but for the status it gives them, to act even more pretencious.

frankly if Phil Collins and company just changed their name I would have no problem at all. The songs they made are cool but don't compare with the original Genesis.

A band can sell out in many different ways. However changing the sound isn't a red flag every time.

When all of the tickets for a concert are sold. C wut I did thar?fidosim

The Clash never sold out.They were just awesome... Metallica are probably the most sellout band... even though I kinda like them.Megadeth never sold out though.

I think a band sellout when they change their image, and sound just to fit what is popular.When a band is pressurised into doing so, then that is just not good...

frankly if Phil Collins and company just changed their name I would have no problem at all. The songs they made are cool but don't compare with the original Genesis.

A band can sell out in many different ways. However changing the sound isn't a red flag every time.

Nifty_Shark

The phil collins era of genesis had a few catchy songs, and Land of confusion is pretty good. It was such a drastic change though.

The Clash never sold out.They were just awesome... Metallica are probably the most sellout band... even though I kinda like them.Megadeth never sold out though.

I think a band sellout when they change their image, and sound just to fit what is popular.When a band is pressurised into doing so, then that is just not good...

-Misanthropic-

Do you even like the album Sandinista? Even fans of the clash I know hate that album, but I loved it.

[QUOTE="-Misanthropic-"]

The Clash never sold out.They were just awesome... Metallica are probably the most sellout band... even though I kinda like them.Megadeth never sold out though.

I think a band sellout when they change their image, and sound just to fit what is popular.When a band is pressurised into doing so, then that is just not good...

Film-Guy

Do you even like the album Sandinista? Even fans of the clash I know hate that album, but I loved it.

I call shenanigans. What was Megadeath thinking with "Risk". Thankfully they didn't move forward with that sound.

The Clash never sold out.They were just awesome... Metallica are probably the most sellout band... even though I kinda like them.Megadeth never sold out though.

I think a band sellout when they change their image, and sound just to fit what is popular.When a band is pressurised into doing so, then that is just not good...

-Misanthropic-

Amm Risk?

When their music's not good anymore.

[QUOTE="-Misanthropic-"]

Do you even like the album Sandinista? Even fans of the clash I know hate that album, but I loved it.

Film-Guy

[QUOTE="-Misanthropic-"]

The Clash never sold out.They were just awesome... Metallica are probably the most sellout band... even though I kinda like them.Megadeth never sold out though.

I think a band sellout when they change their image, and sound just to fit what is popular.When a band is pressurised into doing so, then that is just not good...

dieric17

Amm Risk?

im probly the biggest megadeth fan on these boards, but im not a fanboy. megadeth sold out for countdown to extinction just the same way that metallica did for black. excpet instead of writing a lot of ballads they kept it metal, but a stripped down more melodic version.. more radio friendly.. while its way bttr than black, its still selling out..

when you go from THIS, yes kirk hammet sucks to THIS, notice how his hair is all well done. i couldve linked a teut le monde but thats such a inverse that it is obvious. teut le monde = nothing else matters

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

[QUOTE="-Misanthropic-"] I love Sandinista, I like all of The Clash's albums... My uncle reared me on them.. [QUOTE="dieric17"]

[QUOTE="-Misanthropic-"]

The Clash never sold out.They were just awesome... Metallica are probably the most sellout band... even though I kinda like them.Megadeth never sold out though.

I think a band sellout when they change their image, and sound just to fit what is popular.When a band is pressurised into doing so, then that is just not good...

-Misanthropic-

Amm Risk?

The only album by the clash I dont like is Cut the crap, but I think that was either done without Joe Strummer or it was just Joe Strummr and the rest of the band wasnt involved. Their is a great book on the clash that came out recently which has the whole band talk about their career and how the band started. Its a great read.

im probly the biggest megadeth fan on these boards, but im not a fanboy. megadeth sold out for countdown to extinction just the same way that metallica did for black. excpet instead of writing a lot of ballads they kept it metal, but a stripped down more melodic version.. more radio friendly.. while its way bttr than black, its still selling out..

when you go from THIS, yes kirk hammet sucks to THIS, notice how his hair is all well done. i couldve linked a teut le monde but thats such a inverse that it is obvious. teut le monde = nothing else matters

nimatoad2000

I wouldn't really call CTE a sellout... I'd call it a step down for sure... but not a sellout.Cryptic Writings all the way to The World Needs A Hero is a sellout sure... but not CTE.

when you go from THIS, yes kirk hammet sucks to THIS, notice how his hair is all well done. i couldve linked a teut le monde but thats such a inverse that it is obvious. teut le monde = nothing else matters

nimatoad2000

Well do you know how annoying that hair must have been in the first video? All puffy it gets sweaty fast. I prefer to have my hair free flowing when I grow it out because I hate the feeling of stiff and gravity disobeying hair.

Also who doesn't love the "duh duh duh, duh duh duh...dah dah daaah, duh duh duh" in Symphony of Destruction?

The only album by the clash I dont like is Cut the crap, but I think that was either done without Joe Strummer or it was just Joe Strummr and the rest of the band wasnt involved. Their is a great book on the clash that came out recently which has the whole band talk about their career and how the band started. Its a great read.

Film-Guy

Naw, its with Joe Strummer alright, its just without Mick Jones, Topper Headon, and Paul Simonon.I don't know for sure, but it could have been the period where Strummer joined The Pogues when Shane MacGowan left because of alcohol problems...

And is that the pink book you're talking about? Because if it is, I have it, and its excellent, a great read, much recommended.

[QUOTE="nimatoad2000"]

im probly the biggest megadeth fan on these boards, but im not a fanboy. megadeth sold out for countdown to extinction just the same way that metallica did for black. excpet instead of writing a lot of ballads they kept it metal, but a stripped down more melodic version.. more radio friendly.. while its way bttr than black, its still selling out..

when you go from THIS, yes kirk hammet sucks to THIS, notice how his hair is all well done. i couldve linked a teut le monde but thats such a inverse that it is obvious. teut le monde = nothing else matters

-Misanthropic-

I wouldn't really call CTE a sellout... I'd call it a step down for sure... but not a sellout.Cryptic Writings all the way to The World Needs A Hero is a sellout sure... but not CTE.

mustaine has said many times, and even int he CTE liner notes that after seeing how holy wars and hangar got mtv plays.. he made CTE more mainstream and radio friendly.. he alwso says in the CTE liners that he made every subsequent album even more mainstream and tried to get even more singles until he eventually F'd everything up with risk. and realized how silly it all was

he was blood thirsty for a #1 album, the best he did was #2, that greed and thirst led him to sacrifice everything for it, and that meant making songs just for radio play, and making a teut le monde ( great song dont get me wrong) then making spanish version, and he's even milking it on United aboms by doing a duet of it.. even tho UA was all metal again, he still had to put that in there... **mustaine snarl**

EDIT : CTE REMASTERED LINER NOTES

MORE THIS , Definately less THIS and oh god i hope we never see THIS again

frankly if Phil Collins and company just changed their name I would have no problem at all. The songs they made are cool but don't compare with the original Genesis.

A band can sell out in many different ways. However changing the sound isn't a red flag every time.

Nifty_Shark

To be fair to Phil Collins and Genesis, their songs were pretty similar to the Peter Gabriel progressive era at when P. Collins first took over. But then when Phil Collins became a solo artist, he started using Genesis as a vehicle to just pump out more mainstream hits. By the album Invisible Touch, they didn't sound like Genesis whatsoever. They sounded like Phil Collins.

mustaine has said many times, and even int he CTE liner notes that after seeing how holy wars and hangar got mtv plays.. he made CTE more mainstream and radio friendly.. he alwso says in the CTE liners that he made every subsequent album even more mainstream and tried to get even more singles until he eventually F'd everything up with risk. and realized how silly it all was

he was blood thirsty for a #1 album, the best he did was #2, that greed and thirst led him to sacrifice everything for it, and that meant making songs just for radio play, and making a teut le monde ( great song dont get me wrong) then making spanish version, and he's even milking it on United aboms by doing a duet of it.. even tho UA was all metal again, he still had to put that in there... **mustaine snarl**

EDIT : CTE REMASTERED LINER NOTES

MORE THIS , Definately less THIS and oh god i hope we never see THIS again

nimatoad2000

He made CTE more mainstream... yes... he was going in a different direction certainly, but I don't think Megadeth reached the "Sellout" mark until about Cryptic Writings... I actually like CTE.Just not as much as Peace Sells, or KIMB, or RIP :P

Though, Good Mourning/Black Friday ****ing rocks.Great choice.

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

The only album by the clash I dont like is Cut the crap, but I think that was either done without Joe Strummer or it was just Joe Strummr and the rest of the band wasnt involved. Their is a great book on the clash that came out recently which has the whole band talk about their career and how the band started. Its a great read.

-Misanthropic-

Naw, its with Joe Strummer alright, its just without Mick Jones, Topper Headon, and Paul Simonon.I don't know for sure, but it could have been the period where Strummer joined The Pogues when Shane MacGowan left because of alcohol problems...

And is that the pink book you're talking about? Because if it is, I have it, and its excellent, a great read, much recommended.

Yeah the pink one, its one of the best books about a band I have ever read. The only others I have read that I liked as much are Inside out: a personal history of pink Floyd by Nick Mason, and Scar Tissue by Anthony Kiedis. The Clash are one of the only punk bands I actually like, well them, Television, and Iggy pop and the stooges.

When they look like Fall Out Boy.

A band starts "selling out" when they stop listening to the fans and themselves, and start listening to their producer/record label, in the hopes of making even bigger bucks. Like Metallica, post ...and Justice for All.

When they no longer make the music they feel and make the music that sells.

When they start making their music to sell rather than for the sake of making music.

a band sells out when/if they change their sound in order to pander to a larger audience for profit.

otherwise it is known as "being successful" (as unpopular an idea as that may be).

To most people, though, someone making more money than they ever will = selling out.

When their music is bad. IMO Kings of Leon never sold out because they kept making awesome music.clembo1990

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]When their music is bad. IMO Kings of Leon never sold out because they kept making awesome music.LJS9502_basic

When they compromise their integrity for the sake of earning more money.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]When their music is bad. IMO Kings of Leon never sold out because they kept making awesome music.clembo1990

Selling out is just an opinion... If you don't change your sound, you'll be forgotten.

IT's a miracle that Nirvana is still remembered.

Selling out is just an opinion... If you don't change your sound, you'll be forgotten.

IT's a miracle that Nirvana is still remembered.

Reziztance

If you don't change your sound, you'll be forgotten.Reziztance

Where did you get this crap from? There's plenty of bands that have stook to their original sound are deemed as the greatest bands in history. Did the Beatles ever change their's? Black Sabbath? Led Zeppelin?

What about composers like Beethoven, Wagner and Chopin? They didn't change their sound and will never be forgotten (they certainly have a greater chance of being remembered than alot of musicians who have changed their sound).

to me CTE was not a sell out different then their first three albums?yes. CTE is actually my fav album to me Megadeth never really sold out they did borderline it with Risk but then made a giant u turn after that. IMO i say Meagdeth didnt start really start riding that line until youthenaisa i think CTE was their last[albeit bit lighter] true -to -there- roots album before risk

[QUOTE="Reziztance"]

If you don't change your sound, you'll be forgotten.BeepBoop16

Where did you get this crap from? There's plenty of bands that have stook to their original sound are deemed as the greatest bands in history. Did the Beatles ever change their's? Black Sabbath? Led Zeppelin?

What about composers like Beethoven, Wagner and Chopin? They didn't change their sound and will never be forgotten (they certainly have a greater chance of being remembered than alot of musicians who have changed their sound).

A abnd sells out when they change there sound to meet radio standards and to broaden there listeners

bobstos

Merchandise? Not really. That's a typical source of income for a band.