Why do people think there needs to be water and air on a planet for alien life?

I often wondered the same thing.

I mean we are still discovering new elements to this day. What if there is a galaxy out there that has a completely different table of elements?

Cells need something to transport nutrients and waste. If not water, what else?Oleg_Huzwog

I often wondered the same thing.

I mean we are still discovering new elements to this day. What if there is a galaxy out there that has a completely different table of elements?

mrbojangles25

Elements are the same everywhere.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]Cells need something to transport nutrients and waste. If not water, what else?Jandurin

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

I often wondered the same thing.

I mean we are still discovering new elements to this day. What if there is a galaxy out there that has a completely different table of elements?

Oleg_Huzwog

Elements are the same everywhere.

...so far!

Do you know for sure, on the other side of the universe, that the elements are the same? I mean I understand the concept (Hyrdrogen and stuff for stars, supernova'd made denser stuff, dense stuff came together to form planets, planets became eve mroe dense and new stuff became) and one could assume that one star exploding is the same as another star.

But the fact is, we dont know for sure and its fun to ponder.

But the fact is, we dont know for sure and its fun to ponder.mrbojangles25

...so far!

Do you know for sure, on the other side of the universe, that the elements are the same? I mean I understand the concept (Hyrdrogen and stuff for stars, supernova'd made denser stuff, dense stuff came together to form planets, planets became eve mroe dense and new stuff became) and one could assume that one star exploding is the same as another star.

But the fact is, we dont know for sure and its fun to ponder.

mrbojangles25

Seeing as how "element" is nothing more than a description of the number of protons within an atom's nucleus, we can confidently say Earth's elemental table applies everywhere. An atom with a dozen protons is... *looks up table*... Magnesium, no matter where in the universe it is.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]...so far!

Do you know for sure, on the other side of the universe, that the elements are the same? I mean I understand the concept (Hyrdrogen and stuff for stars, supernova'd made denser stuff, dense stuff came together to form planets, planets became eve mroe dense and new stuff became) and one could assume that one star exploding is the same as another star.

But the fact is, we dont know for sure and its fun to ponder.

Oleg_Huzwog

Seeing as how "element" is nothing more than a description of the number of protons within an atom's nucleus, we can confidently say Earth's elemental table applies everywhere. An atom with a dozen protons is... *looks up table*... Magnesium, no matter where in the universe it is.

I know but what I am saying is what if there arent atoms somewhere else?

Listen, I am not saying I believe what I am saying, I am just playing Devil's Advocate.

There may be other ingrdients for life to exist on other celestial bodies, but I suppose that because most/all of Earth's inhabitants strive on water and air, do we assume the same must be elsewhere.

I know but what I am saying is what if there arent atoms somewhere else?

Listen, I am not saying I believe what I am saying, I am just playing Devil's Advocate.

mrbojangles25

Because a fundamental base of the laws of physics is that they are universal. The speed of light in a vacuum is the same everywhere. The gravitational constant is the same everywhere. The makeup of matter (atoms, protons, blah blah blah) fall under that category.

But who knows? Maybe God is a prankster who likes to screw around with universal constants to toy with us.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]I know but what I am saying is what if there arent atoms somewhere else?

Listen, I am not saying I believe what I am saying, I am just playing Devil's Advocate.

Oleg_Huzwog

Because a fundamental base of the laws of physics is that they are universal. The speed of light in a vacuum is the same everywhere. The gravitational constant is the same everywhere. The makeup of matter (atoms, protons, blah blah blah) fall under that category.

But who knows? Maybe God is a prankster who likes to screw around with universal constants to toy with us.

these laws were created by humans based on what we observed on our own planet, we know nothing about the universe and for all we know those laws of pyshics could be non exsistent in other parts of the universe.

If aliens breath air and came from the sea like us, would they resemble humans?wizard90

What is it, there's like a word for it. Learned it in Genetics... erm. Whatever.

these laws were created by humans based on what we observed on our own planet, we know nothing about the universe and for all we know those laws of pyshics could be non exsistent in other parts of the universe.SaintLeonidas

It is irrational to suggest the universe is not universal.

It is irrational to suggest the universe is not universal.Oleg_Huzwog

How dare you use a word to define a word :o

Did it ever offer to anyone that aliens might not need air or water?MM87

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]these laws were created by humans based on what we observed on our own planet, we know nothing about the universe and for all we know those laws of pyshics could be non exsistent in other parts of the universe.Oleg_Huzwog

It is irrational to suggest the universe is not universal.

No, its irrational for us to think we know everything about the universe based solely on what we have seen.

No, its irrational for us to think we know everything about the universe based solely on what we have seen.SaintLeonidas

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]No, its irrational for us to think we know everything about the universe based solely on what we have seen.Jandurin

Really? Why is that? Earth is one small..small..very god dang small portion of the universe. There is so much that we dont know. Our table of elements...there could be planets with 10 times as many elements on them. Who is to say there is a gas out there that can interfere with gravity, yes it seems unlikely but there is nothing to prove other wise. You would have to be very close minded to think that something that is supposed to never ending it subject to the same laws in every area.

You would have to be very close minded to think that something that is supposed to never ending it subject to the same laws in every area. SaintLeonidas

Carbon based life or bust.Jandurin

That make me chuckle :lol:

You don't need oxygen to have life

There are anaerobic processes like glycolysis and fermentation that provide energy without oxygen

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] You would have to be very close minded to think that something that is supposed to never ending it subject to the same laws in every area. Jandurin

No, its simple to just say "hey everything is the same,no need to think, a planet 700 light years away is subject to the same laws as us with the same elements that we know of," but to say that that there is an endless possibilty of elements and laws that we know nothing about is a different story.

No, its irrational for us to think we know everything about the universe based solely on what we have seen.

SaintLeonidas

Based solely on what we have seen? It sounds like you have impossibly high standards of verification.

Here's me:
*touches stove*
Ouch! Okay, I'm never doing that again.

Here's you:
*touches stove*
Ouch! I'm not going to draw any conclusions, though.
*touches stove in neighbor's kitchen*
Ouch! I'm not going to draw any conclusions, though.
*touches stove in grandma's kitchen*
Ouch! I'm not going to draw any conclusions, though.

There are anaerobic processes like glycolysis and fermentation that provide energy without oxygenblackmagesm

No, its simple to just say "hey everything is the same,no need to think, a planet 700 light years away is subject to the same laws as us with the same elements that we know of," but to say that that there is an endless possibilty of elements and laws that we know nothing about is a different story.SaintLeonidas

aliens need water and air because that's simply how metabolism works in eucaryotes. it requires air and water.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]No, its irrational for us to think we know everything about the universe based solely on what we have seen.SaintLeonidas

Really? Why is that? Earth is one small..small..very god dang small portion of the universe. There is so much that we dont know. Our table of elements...there could be planets with 10 times as many elements on them. Who is to say there is a gas out there that can interfere with gravity, yes it seems unlikely but there is nothing to prove other wise. You would have to be very close minded to think that something that is supposed to never ending it subject to the same laws in every area.

If you know anything about astronomy you would realize its a good chance we have discovered some 99% of the elements.. Stars can only fuse up to Iron, so right there the main mode of creation is measured out, the others are done through other reactions and are much smaller in quanity.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

I often wondered the same thing.

I mean we are still discovering new elements to this day. What if there is a galaxy out there that has a completely different table of elements?

mrbojangles25

Elements are the same everywhere.

...so far!

Do you know for sure, on the other side of the universe, that the elements are the same? I mean I understand the concept (Hyrdrogen and stuff for stars, supernova'd made denser stuff, dense stuff came together to form planets, planets became eve mroe dense and new stuff became) and one could assume that one star exploding is the same as another star.

But the fact is, we dont know for sure and its fun to ponder.

lol-ium darkIink

[QUOTE="darkIink"]lol-ium Jandurin

I have my chem final tomorrow :cry:darkIink

I remember my Chem final. It wasn't pretty. I passed the class, and I never ever ever looked back. :P

Really? Why is that? Earth is one small..small..very god dang small portion of the universe. There is so much that we dont know. Our table of elements...there could be planets with 10 times as many elements on them. Who is to say there is a gas out there that can interfere with gravity, yes it seems unlikely but there is nothing to prove other wise. You would have to be very close minded to think that something that is supposed to never ending it subject to the same laws in every area.

SaintLeonidas

Based on what we know about stuff like gravity and atoms, there is no reason to believe that there is some place in the universe where gravity doesn't apply and atoms are somehow different than they are here. Is it theoretically possible that that might be the case? Yes. It's also theoretically possible that there is an invisible unicorn watching me while I type this. There's no reason for me to believe that to be the case, however, so it would make no sense for me to seriously entertain that idea unless I actually had some semblance of evidence supporting the idea. Similarly, everything we have seen about the universe (and we've seen an awful lot) indicates very strongly that the basic fundamentals of existence (the fundamental forces, conservation of momentum, behavior of atoms, etc.) are uniform across its expanse.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]I know but what I am saying is what if there arent atoms somewhere else?

Listen, I am not saying I believe what I am saying, I am just playing Devil's Advocate.

SaintLeonidas

Because a fundamental base of the laws of physics is that they are universal. The speed of light in a vacuum is the same everywhere. The gravitational constant is the same everywhere. The makeup of matter (atoms, protons, blah blah blah) fall under that category.

But who knows? Maybe God is a prankster who likes to screw around with universal constants to toy with us.

these laws were created by humans based on what we observed on our own planet, we know nothing about the universe and for all we know those laws of pyshics could be non exsistent in other parts of the universe.

and that, mon frere, is exactly my point.

Saying the Laws of Physics is universal is like an isolated tribe of Bojanglians deep in the forest saying "We speak Bojanglian, therefore the rest of the people on this planet must speak Bojanglian"

For all practical purpose, they are right (they have yet to come into contact with anything to contradict their beliefs) but from a technical standpoint theyre wrong (there are hundreds of languages).

I know, I know...an extreme example. But I like to keep my mind open, just in case. In the paraphrased words of tommy lee jones from MIB:

Hundreds of years ago, we knew the earth was flat. Yesterday, you knew we were alone in the universe. Imagine what you will know tomarow"