I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Why is College so expensive in the United States?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I know the great majority of my college's money went straight to the president. I'd imagine that's the case in a lot of colleges. So a solution? Cut the paychecks of the higher-ups so so many people aren't in such high levels of debt.
Colleges aren't educational institutions anymore, they're businesses now. And rather profitable ones, seeing as how most people need a college degree to get somewhere in life. So yes, I feel the same as you do; that colleges are overpriced.
As for a solution...**** if I know. GazaAli's solution isn't bad, if you're into that.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of colleges getting tax payer money if they're private.
I think the major issue is the schools knowing the banks, and Uncle Sam hand out money like there's no tomorrow to students. I'm sure if FASFA got cut we would see education drop in price.
Good thing I go to school 99% free via federal grants, but if I run out of money, which is looking like soon - I'll just sacrifice 8 years of my life to the Air Force.
I refuse to be 30+ years old paying student loans.
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
Yes, I'm sure corporations like Apple, Exxon, and Goldman Sachs don't want educated professionals working for their companies.
The root of the problem lies with students, really. Colleges largely compete on being the best rather than the best value. They do this because, to a large degree, that's what the students want to attend.
This has started to change more and more, with a larger share of the student population looking at education from a value proposition. The causes of this are largely due to the quickly rising costs as well as the recently increased plausibility of being unable to find a decent job after graduation. It will take some time to reverse course entirely, but at least it's started.
Its demand, you can no longer make a decent living without going to college.
Historically you look at the percentage of americans with college degree, our workforce is more educated than ever, but have less disposable income.
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
@BeardMaster said:
Its demand, you can no longer make a decent living without going to college.
Historically you look at the percentage of americans with college degree, our workforce is more educated than ever, but have less disposable income.
Well, you have to take into account some people have pointless degrees from a financial standpoint.
A BS in women studies isn't going to make 50k+ annually.
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
@huggybear1020 said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
Yes, I'm sure corporations like Apple, Exxon, and Goldman Sachs don't want educated professionals working for their companies.
Goldman Sachs is a terrible example of whatever you're trying to argue here. They only hire people from Ivy League schools who come from good families. And Apple would rather use Chinese slave labor than hire Americans for much of anything.
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
@Fightingfan said:
@BeardMaster said:
Its demand, you can no longer make a decent living without going to college.
Historically you look at the percentage of americans with college degree, our workforce is more educated than ever, but have less disposable income.
Well, you have to take into account some people have pointless degrees from a financial standpoint.
A BS in women studies isn't going to make 50k+ annually.
Point being a college degree in a worthless major should still be preferable to no college degree.
Now more than ever a college degree is required for success.
@BeardMaster said:
@Fightingfan said:
@BeardMaster said:
Its demand, you can no longer make a decent living without going to college.
Historically you look at the percentage of americans with college degree, our workforce is more educated than ever, but have less disposable income.
Well, you have to take into account some people have pointless degrees from a financial standpoint.
A BS in women studies isn't going to make 50k+ annually.
Point being a college degree in a worthless major should still be preferable to no college degree.
Now more than ever a college degree is required for success.
Nah. Experience beats a useless degree.
They'll hire someone who speaks 2-3 languages with 6months experience VS a kid with one language and no experience, but holds a degree.
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world. Saddling people in their early 20's with tens of thousands of dollars of debt is a recipe for failure.
Higher education in the US is yet another example of how capitalism is a failed system ready to implode on itself. At some point the student loan bubble is going to burst just like the housing bubble.
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.
I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.
And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.
What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.
@KC_Hokie said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.
I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.
And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.
What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.
That's exactly how it should be. Not everyone is cut out to go to college. It's meant only for the best and brightest, otherwise it cheapens the value of a college degree. And if you're smart enough to get into college, you shouldn't have to worry how you're going to pay for it.
In the US, it's getting to the point where any idiot can get into college. We've lowered admissions standards dramatically. Back in the 1940s colleges were more selective like in those European countries you mentioned. Only the smartest people got in. Those for-profit schools like Devry and University of Phoenix are good examples of everything that's wrong with higher education in the US. They're ungodly expensive, offer nothing in terms of education, and they'll take anyone.
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
To some extent yes, but its a side effect of a net positive. Having a better educated workforce is a good thing, as is better access to higher education.
The issue is we are letting companies reap the benefits and drive down wages while increasing qualifications for positions rather than forcing them to pay more, for better educated labor.
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.
I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.
And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.
What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.
That's how it should be. Not everyone is cut out to go to college. It's mean only for the best and brightest, otherwise it cheapens the value of a college degree.
In the US, it's getting to the point where any idiot can get into college. Those for-profit schools like Devry and University of Phoenix are good examples of everything that's wrong with higher education in the US. They're ungodly expensive and they'll take anyone.
Oh I agree not everyone should go to college and there should be other options. I just don't like the idea of government getting involved and telling you where you go next. Government needs to get out of education not get deeper into it.
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.
I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.
And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.
What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.
That's how it should be. Not everyone is cut out to go to college. It's meant only for the best and brightest, otherwise it cheapens the value of a college degree.
In the US, it's getting to the point where any idiot can get into college. Those for-profit schools like Devry and University of Phoenix are good examples of everything that's wrong with higher education in the US. They're ungodly expensive and they'll take anyone.
more education is always better than less education. Its why public schools exist.
A work force than cant read and write, is not as good as one that can. Whether or not you think that everyone is cut out for college is immaterial, as someone with a college education is always better than if they only had a highschool education.
Simply put people are not being rewarded financially for their better educations, thats the issue. Not that people should be dumber.
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
To some extent yes, but its a side effect of a net positive. Having a better educated workforce is a good thing, as is better access to higher education.
The issue is we are letting companies reap the benefits and drive down wages while increasing qualifications for positions rather than forcing them to pay more, for better educated labor.
Not sure I agree with you. Percentage of Americans in the workforce is at a 30 year low. So all that money the government throws at education isn't working.
Scores haven't gone up since the huge increase in spending over time. Percentage of Americans in workforce is way down. American salaries are flat.
I don't see government heavily involved financially in education as helping much at all. I would even argue big government is hurting education with this 'everyone needs to go to college' mentality.
@BeardMaster said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.
I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.
And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.
What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.
That's how it should be. Not everyone is cut out to go to college. It's meant only for the best and brightest, otherwise it cheapens the value of a college degree.
In the US, it's getting to the point where any idiot can get into college. Those for-profit schools like Devry and University of Phoenix are good examples of everything that's wrong with higher education in the US. They're ungodly expensive and they'll take anyone.
more education is always better than less education. Its why public schools exist.
A work force than cant read and write, is not as good as one that can. Whether or not you think that everyone is cut out for college is immaterial, as someone with a college education is always better than if they only had a highschool education.
Simply put people are not being rewarded financially for their better educations, thats the issue. Not that people should be dumber.
True. But as I said many possibly even most people are not cut out for college and would get more out of learning a trade. Education comes in many forms.
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
To some extent yes, but its a side effect of a net positive. Having a better educated workforce is a good thing, as is better access to higher education.
The issue is we are letting companies reap the benefits and drive down wages while increasing qualifications for positions rather than forcing them to pay more, for better educated labor.
Not sure I agree with you. Percentage of Americans in the workforce is at a 30 year low. So all these money the government throws at education isn't working.
Scores haven't gone up since the huge increase in spending over time. Percentage of Americans in workforce is way down. American salaries are flat.
I do see government heavily involved financially in education as helping much at all. I would even argue big government is hurting education with this 'everyone needs to go to college' mentality.
By scores i assume you mean scores among 16 year old highschool kids (as thats all thats tracked), I think you will find if you compare college grads to 16 year highschool kids, they will destroy them with test scores.
Education works and its a good thing. Outsourcing, lax immigration laws and not doing more to encourage the hiring of american labor via the tax code is a bad thing.
@bigfootpart2 said:
@BeardMaster said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@BeardMaster said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@XBOunity said:
I just laugh at all these prices, I am pretty much up on the prices as my nephew was applying to a lot of colleges and I was privy to financials in regards. I mean shit schools are 35 k a year. I think its beyond criminal that colleges have gotten this expensive. What is the solution? Also do you view it as overpriced and feel the same way?
Because of cheap government loans. People used to be able to work in the summers to pay for the rest of the year at college. Good luck trying that these days.
And the reason why cheap government loans increase the price is because colleges know if they raise the price of tuition, students will simply borrow the money. There is little incentive for colleges to try to save money or be efficient in certain areas. Not when they could just raise the price instead.
When the government essentially subsides something it becomes inefficient and more costly than it should be. Just ask the Soviets.
Yes but a more educated work force is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact its almost always a good thing.
What makes it a bad thing is the rise of required higher education, along with the generous issuance of work visas. I work in IT, and 90% of the people i work with are from india and arent american citizens. 50 years ago, that wasnt the case in any work place.
Of course, but the government getting involved in student loans is what has driven up tuition costs.
The government isn't involved enough. Higher education needs to be better regulated. In every other developed country, higher education is free or nearly free. In some cases, you may even be paid to go to college if you're studying something that's considered essential for society, like medicine. As long as we continue to devour our young in this country, we are going to fall behind the rest of the world.
I couldn't disagree more. In those countries you are told early on if you are going to university or trade school. You find out early on in high school what your next type of school is.
And before the government got involved tuitions were low. For example, in 1940 it was only $450 for tuition for Yale. That's only $7,200 in today's money with today's tuition at Yale being ten times that.
What happened between 1940 and today? Government loan programs started up in the 1950s and are out of control today. Student loan inflation is simply crazy.
That's how it should be. Not everyone is cut out to go to college. It's meant only for the best and brightest, otherwise it cheapens the value of a college degree.
In the US, it's getting to the point where any idiot can get into college. Those for-profit schools like Devry and University of Phoenix are good examples of everything that's wrong with higher education in the US. They're ungodly expensive and they'll take anyone.
more education is always better than less education. Its why public schools exist.
A work force than cant read and write, is not as good as one that can. Whether or not you think that everyone is cut out for college is immaterial, as someone with a college education is always better than if they only had a highschool education.
Simply put people are not being rewarded financially for their better educations, thats the issue. Not that people should be dumber.
True. But as I said many possibly even most people are not cut out for college and would get more out of learning a trade. Education comes in many forms.
Agreed but everyone deserves a chance to find out if they are cut out for it or not.
Dissuading people from going to college just means a higher amount of people that belong there, will never go. In my mind its better to waste resources figuring out whos fit for college, than create barriers to entry so high people never realize their potential.
The problem isnt people trying to discover their intellectual potential, its that people arent being properly rewarded for said potential.
@bigfootpart2 said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...
You have to pay them back. Even if you declare most types of bankruptcy you have to pay it back. If you die, a member of your family has to pay it back.
You basically have to become a homeless person or a ward of the state not to pay it back.
@KC_Hokie said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...
You have to pay them back. Even if you declare most types of bankruptcy you have to pay it back. If you die, a member of your family has to pay it back.
You basically have to become a homeless person or a ward of the state not to pay it back.
You guys are confusing student loans with financial aid, which is mostly discussed in the form of grant money that all elite universities give out to pretty much anyone who can't afford to come there-provided they meet their qualifications and are accepted.
That is money that is often $50-60k a year and does not have to be repaid.
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...
In what world can you get 60,000 dollars a year for education that you don't have to pay back? No way in hell will any scholarships cover that much (unless it's a full-ride, which is damn near impossible to get and keep), and federal pell grants only pay about 5,500 in a year (not enough to cover tuition alone, let alone the cost of everything else). That leaves loans, whether federal or private, unless you have rich parents or are going straight for the doctorate.
@TacticalDesire said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...
You have to pay them back. Even if you declare most types of bankruptcy you have to pay it back. If you die, a member of your family has to pay it back.
You basically have to become a homeless person or a ward of the state not to pay it back.
You guys are confusing student loans with financial aid, which is mostly discussed in the form of grant money that all elite universities give out to pretty much anyone who can't afford to come there-provided they meet their qualifications and are accepted.
That is money that is often $50-60k a year and does not have to be repaid.
You're the one that got confused. The conversation was about loans not grants.
@Makhaidos said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...
In what world can you get 60,000 dollars a year for education that you don't have to pay back? No way in hell will any scholarships cover that much (unless it's a full-ride, which is damn near impossible to get and keep), and federal pell grants only pay about 5,500 in a year (not enough to cover tuition alone, let alone the cost of everything else). That leaves loans, whether federal or private, unless you have rich parents or are going straight for the doctorate.
I'm getting $55k a year... Pretty much all elite universities meet 100% of demonstrated need. For example if you make less than $60k a year, Princeton, Harvard etc. cover all of your costs. The financial aid is in the form of grants from the school's private endowments. It is funny how many people aren't aware at how good the financial aid is at top institutions in the United States.
@KC_Hokie said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@KC_Hokie said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
@TacticalDesire said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
This is one of the biggest piles of BS. Colleges still are a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. Financial aid at top universities is at an all time high. Many give students $50-$60k a year in aid.
In federal student loans that are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy that they will have to pay back. $60k/year * 4 years = $240k + interest = Have fun paying that back.
Financial aid generally comes in the form of money that does not have to be paid back...
You have to pay them back. Even if you declare most types of bankruptcy you have to pay it back. If you die, a member of your family has to pay it back.
You basically have to become a homeless person or a ward of the state not to pay it back.
You guys are confusing student loans with financial aid, which is mostly discussed in the form of grant money that all elite universities give out to pretty much anyone who can't afford to come there-provided they meet their qualifications and are accepted.
That is money that is often $50-60k a year and does not have to be repaid.
You're the one that got confused. The conversation was about loans not grants.
Uhm no, look up the quote chain. His first comment was in regards to how poor, smart kids cannot climb the socioeconomic ladder. I responded that that is completely false, since financial aid from top schools is at an all time high and that students who need it, get $50-$60k a year in aid. He then got confused and responded as though I was discussing federal student loans, which I wasn't. That's where you jumped in, also for some reason thinking I was discussing loans even though I never once mentioned student loans.
You could always go abroad for your education and then return home?
I know many great universities that are 10k a year including accomodation in Europe.
You could always go abroad for your education and then return home?
I know many great universities that are 10k a year including accomodation in Europe.
It's not the price but the lack of financial support that surprises me. I haven't paid a penny of my loans back and I won't until I earn a substantial income. It is the sexiest deal ever.
I'm a vet so I got the GI Bill and then I got a full two year scholarship for my junior and senior year, so I was pretty fortunate. But if I didn't have that, I don't think I would have gone to college. It would have just been to high a cost. I have a friend that has a mediocre degree and owes $130,000. That's not far from what my condo is worth. Crazy.
@shebites said:
I'm a vet so I got the GI Bill and then I got a full two year scholarship for my junior and senior year, so I was pretty fortunate. But if I didn't have that, I don't think I would have gone to college. It would have just been to high a cost. I have a friend that has a mediocre degree and owes $130,000. That's not far from what my condo is worth. Crazy.
I don't know how you would get that much debt unless you went to a private university without any scholarships. Or maybe if you went to a public one and didn't have a job all 4 years.
If you drop $35,000 per year for college, you've fucked up hard. If you land six figures of debt, wahr[oinkWGRH[POIKN?????????????? HOW THE ****??????
Spend the first two years at a community college, and then go to a state school - though, for ****'s sake, even going to a state school for a full four years is a mere fraction of $35,000/year for four years.
Doing that in my state amounts to $3-4k/yr in tuition the first two years of college and ~ $12k/yr w/ tuition + fees for the last two years. The sum total of a 4-year degree amounts to less than $35,000.
Also, get a fucking part-time job.
@bigfootpart2 said:
@huggybear1020 said:
@bigfootpart2 said:
College in the US has been turned into a predatory lending trap designed to turn young people who aren't rich into debt slaves.
College used to be a way for poor, but smart kids to climb the socioeconomic ladder. The ruling elite in this country don't want that, and they don't want the poor and middle class to be educated. Making college so ridiculously expensive that only their kids can afford to go without incurring insurmountable debt accomplishes exactly that.
Yes, I'm sure corporations like Apple, Exxon, and Goldman Sachs don't want educated professionals working for their companies.
Goldman Sachs is a terrible example of whatever you're trying to argue here. They only hire people from Ivy League schools who come from good families. And Apple would rather use Chinese slave labor than hire Americans for much of anything.
False. Goldman Sachs hires people who have specific expertise in finance. Apple's R&D department (i.e. the high-paying engineering jobs) are all right here in the U.S., it's the low-paying assembly line jobs that are outsourced.
@coolbeans90 said:
If you drop $35,000 per year for college, you've fucked up hard. If you land six figures of debt, wahr[oinkWGRH[POIKN?????????????? HOW THE ****??????
Spend the first two years at a community college, and then go to a state school - though, for ****'s sake, even going to a state school for a full four years is a mere fraction of $35,000/year for four years.
Doing that in my state amounts to $3-4k/yr in tuition the first two years of college and ~ $12k/yr w/ tuition + fees for the last two years. The sum total of a 4-year degree amounts to less than $35,000.
Also, get a fucking part-time job.
Those types of plans are becoming more popular, Beans. That transition is what's gradually putting price pressures on secondary education (finally).
Edit: On a semi-related note, I can't stress how important it is for a student to get some work experience while they're in college. Not only does it lessen the tuition/board burden, but most companies won't even look past your resume without some type of sizable work experience.
@BeardMaster said:
Its demand, you can no longer make a decent living without going to college.
Historically you look at the percentage of americans with college degree, our workforce is more educated than ever, but have less disposable income.
This right here is BS. One can make a decent living without a college degree and be quite successful with out one. Learn a trade. A really good mechanic/diagnostician (many computers on cars now) can make upwards of 6 figures. Welders (boilermakers) can make 6 figures without working 5/40 or more a week for 50 weeks a year. Sure, they might work 12 hours a day 7 days a week until the job is over, but they get months off during the slow periods to enjoy their big boy toys as well as have a paid for house. That college degree doesn't mean you will be making 6 figures.
There is a demand for skilled workers that are willing to do the work no matter what field you are in with or without a college degree. The simple fact is, by the time a person graduates high school, they should have an idea of what kind of student they would be and I can say right now, many of them that are in HS now, should not be going on to college.
@mattbbpl said:
@coolbeans90 said:
If you drop $35,000 per year for college, you've fucked up hard. If you land six figures of debt, wahr[oinkWGRH[POIKN?????????????? HOW THE ****??????
Spend the first two years at a community college, and then go to a state school - though, for ****'s sake, even going to a state school for a full four years is a mere fraction of $35,000/year for four years.
Doing that in my state amounts to $3-4k/yr in tuition the first two years of college and ~ $12k/yr w/ tuition + fees for the last two years. The sum total of a 4-year degree amounts to less than $35,000.
Also, get a fucking part-time job.
Those types of plans are becoming more popular, Beans. That transition is what's gradually putting price pressures on secondary education (finally).
Edit: On a semi-related note, I can't stress how important it is for a student to get some work experience while they're in college. Not only does it lessen the tuition/board burden, but most companies won't even look past your resume without some type of sizable work experience.
Honestly, I am kinda worried that trends WRT education spending will continue to worsen once the economy picks up (it forced people to forgo stupid shit for a while, but lenders will loosen purse strings, and people will reopen their wallets). Also, I just don't get how some students completely abstain from resume-building while in school. Like, the ****.
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