Why is Open-Borders so unpopular?

Open borders is the idea that there should be no immigration restrictions, ie there ought to be perfect freedom to move from one country to another. My question is simply: why is this idea so unpopular in the developed world? 

Because people are egoistic and always have been. It's nothing new really. People tend to fear change and view change as something risky that should be avoided at all cost. Also many people are a bit racist and are afraid of foreigners entering their country because they think foreigners will destroy their 'culture' and lower their standard of living.

is this a serious question?

lol

Because of racist white people.

Because of racist white people.

Crushmaster

Historically speaking, immigration restrictions in the United States have tended to be based on racial ideas. And during most of the history of the USA, the borders were open. The problem with open borders today isn't so much that open borders is necessarily a bad thing. The problem lay more in the fact that the USA is now a welfare state. Immigrants mostly tend to be poor, and so generally they will find a way to get on those welfare programs (or at least their kids), and use public services (which have dramatically increased during the 20th Century USA) such as public schools in which they haven't paid for (don't you dare suggest sales tax, most revenue for public schools tends to come from other forms of taxation). Back in the open border days, people largely relied on charity if they were in poverty, and private schools (for-profit and non-profit) for their education. So poor immigrants coming over looking for better opportunity wasn't a really a problem except for those who felt like they couldn't compete with them in the job market. If we are to be honest with a ourselves, its clear that the current policy is failing. The markets have shown a great demand for labor in which many illegals have filled. Why so many illegals? Because we have yearly arbitrary caps on the number of immigrants coming into the nation. These laws with arbitrary numbers hardly ever change, and thus never adjust to the demands of the market at the time.

If we want to do something, we shouldn't do it halfway. Otherwise we wind up shooting ourselves in the foot as a nation. Either endorse a full fledge open door/check-point based border with absolutely no number, skill, or intelligence caps AND get rid of the vast majority of the welfare programs and public funding programs. OR enforce the border under the current law by placing the United States Military on the border and giving it the authorization to use lethal force against anyone who tried to cross illegally as it sees fit. I would prefer the former since the latter still wouldn't prevent the rest of the USA from hemmoraging itself onwards to national bankruptcy (the greatest threat to this nation's unity I personally feel).

The illegal drug trade and terrorists love open borders. How dare we disagree with them. FastEddie2121

We should end the drug war. It's a waste, and all it does is add violence where violence once never was. As for terrorists, perhaps check points at the border.

[QUOTE="FastEddie2121"]The illegal drug trade and terrorists love open borders. How dare we disagree with them. Amvis

We should end the drug war. It's a waste, and all it does is add violence where violence once never was. As for terrorists, perhaps check points at the border.

www.wnd.com/2003/04/18153/

It is like this all throughout the southern border with Mexico. A couple of toll booths won't deter anything.

it would put too much stress on the infrastructure of developed cities. It will also cause massive social problems. Lonelynight

Mexico's drug war has started to spread to the United States. Hoping that this issue will just go away if we turn a blind eye to it is a very dangerous policy.

www.cato.org/policy-report/mayjune-2009/mexicos-drug-war-growing-crisis-our-southern-border

As bad as it is in Mexico, the violence is no longer affecting just Mexicans. U.S. tourism, particularly in the border cities, is dropping rapidly. The State Department warned American travelers in May 2008 that battles between drug-trafficking gangs (and between those gangs and the Mexican military and police) in portions of northern Mexico were so severe that they constituted small unit combat operations.

The violence is spilling across the border into the United States. American citizens, including law enforcement personnel, have been targeted by the drug cartels for assassination. There was an ABC television news segment recently about the more than 300 kidnappings in Phoenix last year, the majority of those involving Mexican drug cartels. Mexican drug cartels now operate in most of the large cities in the United States.

Alarm in the United States is rising. That has generated, I believe, some extreme analysis, including the thesis that Mexico might become a full-blown failed state. Texas and other southwestern states are developing contingency plans in case that happens. It is unlikely that the violence will reach such a level, yet that possibility cannot be ruled out. At the beginning of the decade I estimate that Mexico had perhaps a 1 in 100 chance of becoming a failed state. Today, the odds are more like 1 in 20.

We have open borders in Europe, well that means you can work in another country if you want to. It has caused some problems. There are many Eastern European laborers who can work in the west for really low wages. That causes an imbalance and native citizens losing their jobs because of unfair competition. Those Eastern European people come to work here, but they spend their money in their own country, so that's not great for our economy. Furthermore there's an excessive rise in ATM robberies and pickpocketing from Eastern European criminals. Also the trade in women from eastern Europe for prostitution has risen. So there are still quite a few problems that have to be ironed out.

Accountability.

This is good. Should get this thread going any minute :lol:The_Lipscomb

But it's true. White people have always been Xenophonic and racist. And they still are to this very day.

[QUOTE="The_Lipscomb"]This is good. Should get this thread going any minute :lol:pariah3

But it's true. White people have always been Xenophonic and racist. And they still are to this very day.

[QUOTE="pariah3"]

[QUOTE="The_Lipscomb"]This is good. Should get this thread going any minute :lol:EagleEyedOne

But it's true. White people have always been Xenophonic and racist. And they still are to this very day.

Don't bother trying to have a reasonable discussion. Claiming any race is racist is a racist statement in and of itself. If they are looking for real racists, they only need to look in a mirror.

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"][QUOTE="pariah3"]

But it's true. White people have always been Xenophonic and racist. And they still are to this very day.

FastEddie2121

Don't bother trying to have a reasonable discussion. Claiming any race is racist is a racist statement in and of itself. If they are looking for real racists, they only need to look in a mirror.

White people are not xenophobic. Take a look at America and the principles that made people flock to it. It is phobic about money and that is all. Like it always has been.EagleEyedOne

Yes but it was white people who invented money in the first place. Also Africa is poor because of the imperialism of white people.

[QUOTE="EagleEyedOne"]White people are not xenophobic. Take a look at America and the principles that made people flock to it. It is phobic about money and that is all. Like it always has been.pariah3

Yes but it was white people who invented money in the first place. Also Africa is poor because of the imperialism of white people.

So as a white person am I supposed to feel bad about this even though I had absolutely nothing to do with this? You make it sound like only white people are responsible for the evils in the world. World history is a bloody affair and theres more than enough hands caked in blood to go around if we want to point fingers, so to speak. Kayne famously said that Bush 'doesn't care about black people' even though Bush's quiet inititives have saved millions of lives in Africa. Obama himself recently acknowleged and thanked Bush for what he had done.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/10154695/Barack-Obama-praises-George-W-Bushs-Africa-Aids-programme-as-paths-cross-in-Tanzania.html

Mr Obama praised his predecessor's Aids relief programme which has spent more than £30 billion in close to 60 mostly African countries and saved the lives of more than one million people living with HIV or Aids.

Obama is a president who's bread and butter default talking points is to blame Bush and the republicans so high praise such as this is an indication of the positive impact Bush had in Africa. I'm not saying we should ignore past atrocities and the like lest we end up repeating them. I prefer to judge someone by the contents of his/her heart and actions, not by the color of their skin. Its amazing how quickly people forget this wonderful message from MLK.

I think this question can be answered in a lot of different ways depending on who you ask.

- If you ask an unemployed person looking for work, you might get there won't be enough jobs as we are already facing a fairly high unemployment rate as it is

- Another reason is the debt that would accrue with giving free health care and welfare programs. These are expensive and the more people you have come in the more that will need it

- Some people are racist and don't want their culture to mix with other cultures. Hopefully it's a terribly small group without much influence, but it exists.

- Another is safety. If you open your doors to another country then you are opening the door to adopting the issues of that other country. Drug trafficking is an issue that might get potentially worse. How about the risk of accidentally bringing an evasive species to a new area? Read about the sugar cane toad in Australia to see how a animal brought to a new area can be devastating. What about terrorism? Would it be easier for a terror attack if borders are open?

- Overcrowding. Where are all of the new families going to live? What about education for their children? Our schools are already overcrowded with budget cuts.

Personally I would love the idea of an open boarder and everyone getting equal opportunity. But there are some real significant issues that would need to be addressed before open-boarders can be realistically done.

.

World history is a bloody affair and theres more than enough hands caked in blood to go around if we want to point fingers, so to speak.FastEddie2121

Not only history is a bloody affair but even today there is a lot of blood. The fact is that humans have always been aggressive and wealth-seeking bastards. I have seen it in history and I also see it today.

The fact is that humans are a shitty species as a whole and as long as we exist we make the world a miserable place to live in for others.

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]it would put too much stress on the infrastructure of developed cities. It will also cause massive social problems. FastEddie2121

Mexico's drug war has started to spread to the United States. Hoping that this issue will just go away if we turn a blind eye to it is a very dangerous policy.

www.cato.org/policy-report/mayjune-2009/mexicos-drug-war-growing-crisis-our-southern-border

As bad as it is in Mexico, the violence is no longer affecting just Mexicans. U.S. tourism, particularly in the border cities, is dropping rapidly. The State Department warned American travelers in May 2008 that battles between drug-trafficking gangs (and between those gangs and the Mexican military and police) in portions of northern Mexico were so severe that they constituted small unit combat operations.

The violence is spilling across the border into the United States. American citizens, including law enforcement personnel, have been targeted by the drug cartels for assassination. There was an ABC television news segment recently about the more than 300 kidnappings in Phoenix last year, the majority of those involving Mexican drug cartels. Mexican drug cartels now operate in most of the large cities in the United States.

Alarm in the United States is rising. That has generated, I believe, some extreme analysis, including the thesis that Mexico might become a full-blown failed state. Texas and other southwestern states are developing contingency plans in case that happens. It is unlikely that the violence will reach such a level, yet that possibility cannot be ruled out. At the beginning of the decade I estimate that Mexico had perhaps a 1 in 100 chance of becoming a failed state. Today, the odds are more like 1 in 20.

The war on drugs has worked out so well hasn't it?

We have open borders in Europe, well that means you can work in another country if you want to. It has caused some problems. There are many Eastern European laborers who can work in the west for really low wages. That causes an imbalance and native citizens losing their jobs because of unfair competition. Those Eastern European people come to work here, but they spend their money in their own country, so that's not great for our economy. Furthermore there's an excessive rise in ATM robberies and pickpocketing from Eastern European criminals. Also the trade in women from eastern Europe for prostitution has risen. So there are still quite a few problems that have to be ironed out.

TheFlush

[QUOTE="FastEddie2121"]

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]it would put too much stress on the infrastructure of developed cities. It will also cause massive social problems. worlock77

Mexico's drug war has started to spread to the United States. Hoping that this issue will just go away if we turn a blind eye to it is a very dangerous policy.

www.cato.org/policy-report/mayjune-2009/mexicos-drug-war-growing-crisis-our-southern-border

As bad as it is in Mexico, the violence is no longer affecting just Mexicans. U.S. tourism, particularly in the border cities, is dropping rapidly. The State Department warned American travelers in May 2008 that battles between drug-trafficking gangs (and between those gangs and the Mexican military and police) in portions of northern Mexico were so severe that they constituted small unit combat operations.

The violence is spilling across the border into the United States. American citizens, including law enforcement personnel, have been targeted by the drug cartels for assassination. There was an ABC television news segment recently about the more than 300 kidnappings in Phoenix last year, the majority of those involving Mexican drug cartels. Mexican drug cartels now operate in most of the large cities in the United States.

Alarm in the United States is rising. That has generated, I believe, some extreme analysis, including the thesis that Mexico might become a full-blown failed state. Texas and other southwestern states are developing contingency plans in case that happens. It is unlikely that the violence will reach such a level, yet that possibility cannot be ruled out. At the beginning of the decade I estimate that Mexico had perhaps a 1 in 100 chance of becoming a failed state. Today, the odds are more like 1 in 20.

The war on drugs has worked out so well hasn't it?

So we should just let these people do what they like?

*NSFW pics*

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/11/factbox-worst-atrocities-in-mexicos.html

At this point what can be done other than to throw out one liners? Just give up? Allow actions like this to go completly unchecked? I honestly don't know, but doing nothing and just standing by while this happens is no solution.

welfare/warfare cant have open borders when you have a welfare state, you cant have open borders when you are at war with the world. surrealnumber5

The population of developed areas would explode overnight.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="FastEddie2121"]

Mexico's drug war has started to spread to the United States. Hoping that this issue will just go away if we turn a blind eye to it is a very dangerous policy.

www.cato.org/policy-report/mayjune-2009/mexicos-drug-war-growing-crisis-our-southern-border

As bad as it is in Mexico, the violence is no longer affecting just Mexicans. U.S. tourism, particularly in the border cities, is dropping rapidly. The State Department warned American travelers in May 2008 that battles between drug-trafficking gangs (and between those gangs and the Mexican military and police) in portions of northern Mexico were so severe that they constituted small unit combat operations.

The violence is spilling across the border into the United States. American citizens, including law enforcement personnel, have been targeted by the drug cartels for assassination. There was an ABC television news segment recently about the more than 300 kidnappings in Phoenix last year, the majority of those involving Mexican drug cartels. Mexican drug cartels now operate in most of the large cities in the United States.

Alarm in the United States is rising. That has generated, I believe, some extreme analysis, including the thesis that Mexico might become a full-blown failed state. Texas and other southwestern states are developing contingency plans in case that happens. It is unlikely that the violence will reach such a level, yet that possibility cannot be ruled out. At the beginning of the decade I estimate that Mexico had perhaps a 1 in 100 chance of becoming a failed state. Today, the odds are more like 1 in 20.

FastEddie2121

The war on drugs has worked out so well hasn't it?

So we should just let these people do what they like?

*NSFW pics*

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2011/11/factbox-worst-atrocities-in-mexicos.html

At this point what can be done other than to throw out one liners? Just give up? Allow actions like this to go completly unchecked? I honestly don't know, but doing nothing and just standing by while this happens is no solution.

Legalize drugs. Let corporations manufacture and distribute them the same as they do with tobacco and alcohol. Take control of them away from the criminal cartels.

[QUOTE="The_Lipscomb"]This is good. Should get this thread going any minute :lol:pariah3

But it's true. White people have always been Xenophonic and racist. And they still are to this very day.

So as a white person am I supposed to feel bad about this even though I had absolutely nothing to do with this? You make it sound like only white people are responsible for the evils in the world. World history is a bloody affair and theres more than enough hands caked in blood to go around if we want to point fingers, so to speak. Kayne famously said that Bush 'doesn't care about black people' even though Bush's quiet inititives have saved millions of lives in Africa. Obama himself recently acknowleged and thanked Bush for what he had done.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/10154695/Barack-Obama-praises-George-W-Bushs-Africa-Aids-programme-as-paths-cross-in-Tanzania.html

Mr Obama praised his predecessor's Aids relief programme which has spent more than £30 billion in close to 60 mostly African countries and saved the lives of more than one million people living with HIV or Aids.

Obama is a president who's bread and butter default talking points is to blame Bush and the republicans so high praise such as this is an indication of the positive impact Bush had in Africa. I'm not saying we should ignore past atrocities and the like lest we end up repeating them. I prefer to judge someone by the contents of his/her heart and actions, not by the color of their skin. Its amazing how quickly people forget this wonderful message from MLK.FastEddie2121

Still you can't say that white people are not a bit racist.

Black people still remain much poorer than whites because of history and white people still benefit economically because of the injustices that were commited against black people in the past.

Take a look at Brazil for example, a country which is still very racist at heart. Brazil freed the black slaves but they didn't compensate them.

Also Brazil placed a ban on black immigration but they allowed Europeans to migrate to Brazil in order to get the good jobs and make money.

The same thing happened in the United States after the slaves were set free. The black slaves did not get any compensation after slavery and European immigrants were allowed to come in the United States to get jobs and make money.

Also Europeans created a racist system in the Americas, a system which benefits only white American and white European. Black people were supposed to be at the bottom of that system. There was only a small number of rich and successful black in the Euro racist system and even to this very day there is still a small number of rich black people compared to the number of rich white people.

My source:

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=008523

1.) People think: "Terrorists will easily get in!" when in reality, that hasn't always been the case since past terrorists came to the country legally.

2.) People think: "Those illegals are taking our jerbs!" when in reality most jobs that these immigrants - legal and illegal - are taking are jobs that most Americans will never do or want to do. 

3.) People think: "Criminals will come in! Drugs will be rampant! Think of the children!" when in reality, most of these immigrants that are coming in are people who want a greater oppurtunity in life for themselves and perhaps their family. As for drugs, as I stated numerous times, if we want crime to go down and stop these Mexican cartels from destroying our communities in the US or Mexico, then we need to legalize and regulate drugs and take away the competition from there as well as help Mexico rebuild itself.

It wouldn't make sense to let just any one come into the country. Some people could be dangerous, like terrorists or spies or criminals, or perhaps they can be carrying diseases or what not.

[QUOTE="FastEddie2121"]

[QUOTE="Lonelynight"]it would put too much stress on the infrastructure of developed cities. It will also cause massive social problems. worlock77

Mexico's drug war has started to spread to the United States. Hoping that this issue will just go away if we turn a blind eye to it is a very dangerous policy.

www.cato.org/policy-report/mayjune-2009/mexicos-drug-war-growing-crisis-our-southern-border

As bad as it is in Mexico, the violence is no longer affecting just Mexicans. U.S. tourism, particularly in the border cities, is dropping rapidly. The State Department warned American travelers in May 2008 that battles between drug-trafficking gangs (and between those gangs and the Mexican military and police) in portions of northern Mexico were so severe that they constituted small unit combat operations.

The violence is spilling across the border into the United States. American citizens, including law enforcement personnel, have been targeted by the drug cartels for assassination. There was an ABC television news segment recently about the more than 300 kidnappings in Phoenix last year, the majority of those involving Mexican drug cartels. Mexican drug cartels now operate in most of the large cities in the United States.

Alarm in the United States is rising. That has generated, I believe, some extreme analysis, including the thesis that Mexico might become a full-blown failed state. Texas and other southwestern states are developing contingency plans in case that happens. It is unlikely that the violence will reach such a level, yet that possibility cannot be ruled out. At the beginning of the decade I estimate that Mexico had perhaps a 1 in 100 chance of becoming a failed state. Today, the odds are more like 1 in 20.

The war on drugs has worked out so well hasn't it?

Open borders is the idea that there should be no immigration restrictions, ie there ought to be perfect freedom to move from one country to another. My question is simply: why is this idea so unpopular in the developed world? 

radicalcentrist

From what I understand though drug use has declined since the 80s. It went from 11% of the U.S. population being drug users to 8%, which is about a 30% decrease.

whipassmt

How can most white people be Xenophobic, when the West is the most culturally diverse places on the planet? They obviously wanted immigration. lamprey263

1.) People think: "Terrorists will easily get in!" when in reality, that hasn't always been the case since past terrorists came to the country legally.

leviathan91

2.) People think: "Those illegals are taking our jerbs!" when in reality most jobs that these immigrants - legal and illegal - are taking are jobs that most Americans will never do or want to do. 

3.) People think: "Criminals will come in! Drugs will be rampant! Think of the children!" when in reality, most of these immigrants that are coming in are people who want a greater oppurtunity in life for themselves and perhaps their family. As for drugs, as I stated numerous times, if we want crime to go down and stop these Mexican cartels from destroying our communities in the US or Mexico, then we need to legalize and regulate drugs and take away the competition from there as well as help Mexico rebuild itself.

[QUOTE="lamprey263"]

How can most white people be Xenophobic, when the West is the most culturally diverse places on the planet? They obviously wanted immigration. jcknapier711