Why isn't California an independent nation?

California asked to join the Union, and the rest of the country said okay.Oleg_Huzwog

Because that would ruin it for the democrats

They aren't an independent nation because they are one of the states of the United States of America. They wouldn't do a good job of governing themselves

They aren't an independent nation because it is illegal to secede from the Union.-Sun_Tzu-

It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...

It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...gamedude2020

Yeah... sorry about that. Is there like, a fine we have to pay or something?

Well I don't think economy and population size matter that much in that case because Californians (well, most of them) share more less the same values and interests than the rest of America. Furthermore, they share a similar history, culture and language. If they feel like they're Americans and they're home in America, why should they secede?

If most Californians felt they didn't belong to the United States, then California would probably be a country by now. That's how it happens. It's the same thing in Tibet, Eastern Timor, South Ossetia, Montenegro etc... And where I live, most people don't feel Canadians and want to be independant. There have been two referendums so far and the YES party (to secede) lost both by 40%-60% ('80) and 49.6%-50.4% in '95.

(I know some countries I named are NOT independent, but you get the point. Tibet would rather be independent, believe me...) 

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]They aren't an independent nation because it is illegal to secede from the Union.gamedude2020

It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...

To compare California to the British Colonies is just...wow. Can you tell me how California would benefit from seceding?

[QUOTE="gamedude2020"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]They aren't an independent nation because it is illegal to secede from the Union.-Sun_Tzu-

It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...

To compare California to the British Colonies is just...wow. Can you tell me how California would benefit from seceding?

Because they would have better trade opportunities with other nations and they would have to pay taxes to central government. The US army doesn't come cheap.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="gamedude2020"]

It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...

gamedude2020

To compare California to the British Colonies is just...wow. Can you tell me how California would benefit from seceding?

Because they would have better trade opportunities with other nations and they would have to pay taxes to central government. The US army doesn't come cheap.

You do understand that the Californian government is bankrupt basically? And it depends off the national government for numerous social services to get by? Furthermore you do understand that there is nothign stopping the United States from walking their army back into California to reclaiming it?

Because they would have better trade opportunities with other nations and they would have to pay taxes to central government. The US army doesn't come cheap.

gamedude2020

In that case, make sure to give back all the Interstate highways and national labs. By the way, who would defend your nation?

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]They aren't an independent nation because it is illegal to secede from the Union.gamedude2020

It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...

Because they would have better trade opportunities with other nations and they would have to pay taxes to central government. The US army doesn't come cheap.

gamedude2020

Right now California is part of the most powerful country in the world. Even if they had better trade opportunities by seceding, that US army that "doesn't come cheap" isn't gonna be there when they'll need some diplomatic muscle.

Technically, its not "legal" or "illegal" to seccede.

Its just not possible. This was the argument we had against the south. To the north, they never secceded, they merely rebelled. 

Well I don't think economy and population size matter that much in that case because Californians (well, most of them) share more less the same values and interests than the rest of America. Furthermore, they share a similar history, culture and language. If they feel like they're Americans and they're home in America, why should they secede?

If most Californians felt they didn't belong to the United States, then California would probably be a country by now. That's how it happens. It's the same thing in Tibet, Eastern Timor, South Ossetia, Montenegro etc... And where I live, most people don't feel Canadians and want to be independant. There have been two referendums so far and the YES party (to secede) lost both by 40%-60% ('80) and 49.6%-50.4% in '95.

(I know some countries I named are NOT independent, but you get the point. Tibet would rather be independent, believe me...)

BaraChat

eh, Idunno about that. I feel absolutely no kinship with the rest of the country; thats not to say I dont love them all, but someone once said "if I want to go West I go to Arizona or Nevada or Washington...and if I want to go West of the West I go to California".

Not only do Californians sometimes feel seperate from the other states, but I think other states see California and Californians as odd and a bit different. Like even though we are part of the union, I still think people see us as a little bit more than that...I am not saying we are special or better, its just people perceive California and Californians differently. Even when I was in Europe someone at the pub would be like "you american?" and I'd be like "Ya I am from California" and they'd be like "heyyyyy, all right buddy, come have a pint with me!"

Like I work at a brewery, ok, and its next to hotels so when I work the bar I get a lot of out of state people. This guy from New York comes in and just starts cussing up a storm; he isnt mad, he just cusses. I dont have a problem with swear words but it just gets annoying after a while. Then we had these guys from Massachusetts andthey kept talking about the weather and how California doesnt have seasons and how lucky we are and how they want to leave their wives to lvie here.

Still, we are a critical part of the nation and I feel we rely on the US as much as the US relies on US. I jokingly say that Cal should secede (and I think we are capable of it as well), but I dont think we should!

[QUOTE="gamedude2020"]It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...Oleg_Huzwog

Yeah... sorry about that. Is there like, a fine we have to pay or something?

We already paid it. It was called Operation Overlord.

The better question is why has Texas NOT seceded?  It, too, would be the tenth largest economy in the world if it were to secede, its economy has not been hit very hard at all by the recession, and it, as a previously sovereign nation, actually has legal grounds on which it can base its secession.  In addition, secession would allow it to better reap the benefits for itself of the oil companies, many of which are headquartered there, making the tax money go straight to its government rather than the federal government.

[QUOTE="Oleg_Huzwog"]

[QUOTE="gamedude2020"]It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...fidosim

Yeah... sorry about that. Is there like, a fine we have to pay or something?

We already paid it. It was called Operation Overlord.

i don't see how that can count seen as you would have had to fight some time anyway .

i don't see how that can count seen as you would have had to fight some time anyway .

snakes_codec

We only really had to fight Japan and some people have argued that Roosevelt would have never joined the European theatre had Hitler not declared war. Either way, I thought it was a nice gesture.

Because the Rebellion would get automatically owned by the government and become a state again, having most of the state destroyed in the process.

Funny enough I'm listening to a song about California right now.

[QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

i don't see how that can count seen as you would have had to fight some time anyway .

fidosim

We only really had to fight Japan and some people have argued that Roosevelt would have never joined the European theatre had Hitler not declared war. Either way, I thought it was a nice gesture.

not really you wouldnt have been saying that if the Germans were on your door step because thats what would have happend but yes your right it was good of you to send troops to fight in Europe .

Because their infastructure and numerous other aspects depend on the government? Are you aware that California Government is in extreme debt, and that we are in full swing recession.. So the question is, WHY would California secede?sSubZerOo

They could easily do what Brazil did and say..."Nah, we're not in debt anymore" 

Because secession is illegal, that's why.Video_Game_King

Haha wow - who is going to be like "NO GUYS IT'S ILLEGAL" If an area is honestly considering secession I doubt the legality of the topic based on the Government that you are seceding from is not really an issue. 

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Because secession is illegal, that's why.RicardoIII

Haha wow - who is going to be like "NO GUYS IT'S ILLEGAL" If an area is honestly considering secession I doubt the legality of the topic based on the Government that you are seceding from is not really an issue. 

Study your Civil War history.

[QUOTE="gamedude2020"]It was also "illegal" to secede from the British empire...Oleg_Huzwog

Yeah... sorry about that. Is there like, a fine we have to pay or something?

no, we just patented our language, any English speaker outside of the empire has to pay royalties, the bill should come through any day now....

[QUOTE="RicardoIII"]

[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"]Because secession is illegal, that's why.Video_Game_King

Haha wow - who is going to be like "NO GUYS IT'S ILLEGAL" If an area is honestly considering secession I doubt the legality of the topic based on the Government that you are seceding from is not really an issue. 

Study your Civil War history.

Oooooh. So they got a nice piece of paper saying they had been a state all along - building up a military and fighting the Union says otherwise. 

If California did secede they WOULD NOT do it by themselves.

Other states WILL join them.

and if that happens, well, you thought the first civil war was bad with 19th century tech. one now would be EXTREMELY devestating.

If California did secede they WOULD NOT do it by themselves.

Other states WILL join them.

and if that happens, well, you thought the first civil war was bad with 19th century tech. one now would be EXTREMELY devestating.

Trmpt

Other states wouldnt join them, but Quebec would.