Why Should God Let You Into Heaven?

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]How do we need sin to live? Especially considering sin leads to death...Lockedge

we need it in the same way we need to excrete waste, it is not beneficial to us but it happens as a result of living.

You are failing to understand.

Humans will always sin whether God likes it or not. Since he willingly gave us free will there's nothing he can do about it, and if he has a problem with it, then it's not humanity's fault for doing things that he doesn't like.

Aye, I always thought it odd that a God would declare an entire species sinful from birth, give them free will, AND give a group of these people a book and a list of rules to follow and spread word of. These people, more often than not, being more sinful than not, causing somewhat rare situations where it becomes nightmarish for one to be further exposed to said religion, as it is tied with horrific personal experiences.

Just...doesn't make sense. I mean, the majority of people are fair game, but there's special cases that don't mesh with His rules, and thus make me wonder how truly fair or just it is.

Because God wants to hang out with me. I just know it.kerrman

The pearly gate of heaven are closed and locked.

There is a sign posted in front of the gate saying:

"Party at kerrman's house.

Be back later!

-God"

[QUOTE="kerrman"]Because God wants to hang out with me. I just know it.Shad0ki11

The pearly gate of heaven are closed and locked.

There is a sign posted in front of the gate saying:

"Party at kerrman's house.

Be back later!

-God"

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]How do we need sin to live? Especially considering sin leads to death...Shad0ki11

we need it in the same way we need to excrete waste, it is not beneficial to us but it happens as a result of living.

You are failing to understand.

Humans will always sin whether God likes it or not. Since he willingly gave us free will there's nothing he can do about it. It's not humanity's fault for doing things that he doesn't like.

You can't compare choosing to sin to choosing to breathe. We NEED to breathe, we dont NEED to sin.

A better analogy would be: Putting a chocolate bar infront of a chocolate addict, and telling them not to eat it. They have the power in them to not eat it, but they choose not to.

disappointing poll.....the Bible makes it clear that good works and being a good person will not get you into heaven.lilburtonboy748

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

- Matthew 25:31-46

Abridged version: "God will bring people to judgment and the people who did good works for other people will go to heaven."

Is this, perhaps, one of those passages that conveniently should not be taken literally? :P

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="STWELCH"]

So 80 years or so=eternity for punishment....

STWELCH

80 years=eternity?

80 years is plenty of time to repent. Infact, even 20 years is.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]disappointing poll.....the Bible makes it clear that good works and being a good person will not get you into heaven.GabuEx

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

- Matthew 25:31-46

Abridged version: "God will bring people to judgment and the people who did good works for other people will go to heaven."

Is this, perhaps, one of those passages that conveniently should not be taken literally? :P

salvation alone will get you to heaven according to the bible...but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to do good things. If a murderer gets the death penalty and has done nothing but evil, he can repent the moment before he dies and go to heaven. not works, but salvation.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]How do we need sin to live? Especially considering sin leads to death...Silenthps

we need it in the same way we need to excrete waste, it is not beneficial to us but it happens as a result of living.

You are failing to understand.

Humans will always sin whether God likes it or not. Since he willingly gave us free will there's nothing he can do about it. It's not humanity's fault for doing things that he doesn't like.

You can't compare choosing to sin to choosing to breathe. We NEED to breathe, we dont NEED to sin.

A better analogy would be: Putting a chocolate bar infront of a chocolate addict, and telling them not to eat it. They have the power in them to not eat it, but they choose not to.

So all humans are addicted to sin? Humans don't sin every moment they get, as much as you'd like to believe.

By the way, the post of mine that you just quoted wasn't an analogy and I wasn't comparing anything.

A question to your analogy: Who put the chocolate in front of the addict and told them not to eat it? If the addict ate the chocolate, would that person kill the addict?

They have the power in them to not eat it

Silenthps

ah, but do they? after all, the only sinless man is a God (quite literally). does this not show that Man's will is not enough for a sinless life?

You can take my good person test at the bottom of my post and find out. Most think they are good. Here's a test to find out?

1. Ever lied? Even a white one? (9th commandment)

2. Ever stolen something? No matter how small? (8th commandment)

3. Ever killed? That includes with your words? (Matt. 5-7) (6th commandment)

4. Ever committed adultery which includes looking at someone with lust? (Matt. 5-7) (7th commandment)

5. Ever taken God's name in vain which means to use it mockingly or as a curse word? (3rd commandment)

6. Ever committed idolatry? Which means to put anything above God. (1st commantment)

That is just 6 of them. There are 4 more to go. If God judges by those commandments, which He will, will you go to heaven or hell? Some might say that, "I'd go to hell but God is love so He'll forgive me." Let me prove that doesn't make sense by this illustration. The bible says God is holy, righteous (perfect), and just. If that is true He can't overlook sin. Think about it this way:

You rob a bank of 3 million dollars and kill 2 people in the process. While standing in front of the judge, the death penalty staring you in the face, you tell the judge you are sorry for your crimes but that he is a loving judge and you know he'll forgive you. He does!!!

Is that truly just? In Vermont a judge let a man go who raped a small child. His response for doing this? Well, he is diseased! I'm just being compassionate. Everyone in the country wanted this guy hrown off the bench. We expect our judges to be just yet we think God should overlook our crimes against Him. Some say, I've done good works? Let's go back to the courtroom,

You rob a bank of 3 million dollars and kill 2 people. While standing in front of the judge, the death penalty staring you in the face, you tell the judge you know you deserve the death penalty but you took 2 million of the money you stole and gave it to a hospital to help kids with cancer. Will the judge let you go? Of course not! Should God forgive you even if you've done good things? Of course not! Especially when the standard is absolute perfection.

The standard is to keep all of God's law (10 commandments) perfectly our whole lives. If we sin even once we go to hell. Since we are all sinners that means we are screwed because none are perfect. That is why we need Christ. He lived a perfect life when we couldn't. He bore our punishment when we couldn't.

maheo30

If i do go to hell, i would like to ask god WHY was i even born if all i was going to do was burn hell for the rest of eternity. Yes i know some people will be like well its the way you lived your life, well its hard not to lust when you have "Play boy" mags in every store or you could just simply type in "porn" on google and WOW like 2 million pages come up with nothing but porn.

Its hard for some people not to steal when Corporate America is jacking up prices on everything yet they don't want to give you a pay raise for S***. I mean think about it, I could go on but i don't want to.

Just look around in the world we leave in and tell me if you could seriously go through life not Committing one SIN................ Know one in this world could be perfect or live the perfect life.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]salvation alone will get you to heaven according to the bible...but that doesn't mean you aren't supposed to do good things. If a murderer gets the death penalty and has done nothing but evil, he can repent the moment before he dies and go to heaven. not works, but salvation. Qooroo

dude, he didn't post anything that says different. it talks about good works, it doesn't say that it gets you into heaven.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:9-10

dude, he didn't post anything that says different. it talks about good works, it doesn't say that it gets you into heaven.

lilburtonboy748

yeah it did.

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

- Matthew 25:31-46

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]How do we need sin to live? Especially considering sin leads to death...Shad0ki11

we need it in the same way we need to excrete waste, it is not beneficial to us but it happens as a result of living.

You are failing to understand.

Humans will always sin whether God likes it or not. Since he willingly gave us free will there's nothing he can do about it. It's not humanity's fault for doing things that he doesn't like.

You can't compare choosing to sin to choosing to breathe. We NEED to breathe, we dont NEED to sin.

A better analogy would be: Putting a chocolate bar infront of a chocolate addict, and telling them not to eat it. They have the power in them to not eat it, but they choose not to.

So all humans are addicted to sin? Humans don't sin every moment they get, as much as you'd like to believe.

By the way, the post of mine that you just quoted wasn't an analogy and I wasn't comparing anything.

A question to your analogy: Who put the chocolate in front of the addict and told them not to eat it? If the addict ate the chocolate, would that person kill the addict?

The person who put the chocolate there would be someone of higher authority. And the punishment would depend on how perfect that higher authority is.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]How do we need sin to live? Especially considering sin leads to death...Silenthps

we need it in the same way we need to excrete waste, it is not beneficial to us but it happens as a result of living.

You are failing to understand.

Humans will always sin whether God likes it or not. Since he willingly gave us free will there's nothing he can do about it. It's not humanity's fault for doing things that he doesn't like.

You can't compare choosing to sin to choosing to breathe. We NEED to breathe, we dont NEED to sin.

A better analogy would be: Putting a chocolate bar infront of a chocolate addict, and telling them not to eat it. They have the power in them to not eat it, but they choose not to.

So all humans are addicted to sin? Humans don't sin every moment they get, as much as you'd like to believe.

By the way, the post of mine that you just quoted wasn't an analogy and I wasn't comparing anything.

A question to your analogy: Who put the chocolate in front of the addict and told them not to eat it? If the addict ate the chocolate, would that person kill the addict?

The person who put the chocolate there would be someone of higher authority. And the punishment would depend on how perfect that higher authority is.

You didn't answer the second question.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]

They have the power in them to not eat it

Hewkii

ah, but do they? after all, the only sinless man is a God (quite literally). does this not show that Man's will is not enough for a sinless life?

You didn't answer the second question.

Shad0ki11

yeah he did. he just didn't outright say "if God says eating chocolate is a sin, then he can kill you brutally because he is just."

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] [QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Shad0ki11"][QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Hewkii"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]How do we need sin to live? Especially considering sin leads to death...Shad0ki11

we need it in the same way we need to excrete waste, it is not beneficial to us but it happens as a result of living.

You are failing to understand.

Humans will always sin whether God likes it or not. Since he willingly gave us free will there's nothing he can do about it. It's not humanity's fault for doing things that he doesn't like.

You can't compare choosing to sin to choosing to breathe. We NEED to breathe, we dont NEED to sin.

A better analogy would be: Putting a chocolate bar infront of a chocolate addict, and telling them not to eat it. They have the power in them to not eat it, but they choose not to.

So all humans are addicted to sin? Humans don't sin every moment they get, as much as you'd like to believe.

By the way, the post of mine that you just quoted wasn't an analogy and I wasn't comparing anything.

A question to your analogy: Who put the chocolate in front of the addict and told them not to eat it? If the addict ate the chocolate, would that person kill the addict?

The person who put the chocolate there would be someone of higher authority. And the punishment would depend on how perfect that higher authority is.

You didn't answer the second question.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]

You didn't answer the second question.

Hewkii

yeah he did. he just didn't outright say "if God says eating chocolate is a sin, then he can kill you brutally because he is just."

I see. I was looking more along the lines of a yes or no. Nevermind then.

Yes, they do. Yeah Jesus was the only sinless man. But it doesn't mean a man can't not do a single sin. Silenthps

every person created so far seems to prove that wrong.

dude, he didn't post anything that says different. it talks about good works, it doesn't say that it gets you into heaven.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:9-10

lilburtonboy748

Actually, it directly says that good works will get you into heaven. :? God tells those on the right that they will enter into heaven, and gives this as the reason:

"I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."

Then the people asked how they did this, and God answered as follows:

"I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

That's about as straightforward as you can get: when you do something for someone on Earth, you do it for God, and God will reward you for doing so by allowing you into heaven. This is straight from the Bible.

He probably shouldn't.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]dude, he didn't post anything that says different. it talks about good works, it doesn't say that it gets you into heaven.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:9-10

GabuEx

Actually, it directly says that good works will get you into heaven. :? God tells those on the right that they will enter into heaven, and gives this as the reason:

"I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."

Then the people asked how they did this, and God answered as follows:

"I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

That's about as straightforward as you can get: when you do something for someone on Earth, you do it for God, and God will reward you for doing so by allowing you into heaven. This is straight from the Bible.

So good works are a requirement?If that's the case, then the man i mention who becomes saved right before he dies isn't saved?A person cannot be saved on their death bed?

If good works are a requirement to get to heaven, then I guess those people are out of luck.

Quick question, how many good works must one perform?

There's an difference of definition running rampant here. Silenthps is arguing that if God is perfect, then his decree is just by virtue of coming from him. The people arguing against him are saying that if God is perfect, then he should be expected to be perfectly just.Qooroo

and that is why neither side will win.

[QUOTE="MetroidPrimePwn"]Why SHOULD I go to heaven? There's hot chicks and booze in Hell.Crushmaster

Awesome. Water lakes are so overrated.

So good works are a requirement?If that's the case, then the man i mention who becomes saved right before he dies isn't saved?A person cannot be saved on their death bed?

If good works are a requirement to get to heaven, then I guess those people are out of luck.

Quick question, how many good works must one perform?

lilburtonboy748

I hate to tell you this, but you're arguing against the Bible, not me. This is what Jesus said that God would tell people within that passage:

"Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. .... I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

Translation: "You did good things for other people, so you did them for me, thus you may now go to heaven." This is not me saying what I would like to be the case; this is me directly quoting the Bible.

A man dies and walks up to the gates of Heaven. St Peter says, "you need 10000 points to get in." the man asks, "how do I get points?". to which St Peter replies, "well one way to get points is to show good deeds that you have done." "Ok, well one time I helped an old lady across the street" the guy says. "Thats one point." "Ok Ok this one has to be worth a good bit. Once I saved a stranger from drowning in a river" "Thats two." says St Peter. Then the man says "How in God's Graces am I going to get 10000 points?!?" St Peter then says "the grace of God? well thats worth 9998 points come on in!"

Its a really bad joke but you get the picture.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]

So good works are a requirement?If that's the case, then the man i mention who becomes saved right before he dies isn't saved?A person cannot be saved on their death bed?

If good works are a requirement to get to heaven, then I guess those people are out of luck.

Quick question, how many good works must one perform?

GabuEx

I hate to tell you this, but you're arguing against the Bible, not me. This is what Jesus said that God would tell people within that passage:

"Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. .... I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

Translation: "You did good things for other people, so you did them for me, thus you may now go to heaven." This is not me saying what I would like to be the case; this is me directly quoting the Bible.

please answer my questions.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]dude, he didn't post anything that says different. it talks about good works, it doesn't say that it gets you into heaven.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 10:9-10

GabuEx

Actually, it directly says that good works will get you into heaven. :? God tells those on the right that they will enter into heaven, and gives this as the reason:

"I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me."

Then the people asked how they did this, and God answered as follows:

"I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

That's about as straightforward as you can get: when you do something for someone on Earth, you do it for God, and God will reward you for doing so by allowing you into heaven. This is straight from the Bible.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]please answer my questions. Qooroo

I want GabuEx to answer the questions i asked.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]

[QUOTE="Qooroo"][QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]please answer my questions. Qooroo

I want GabuEx to answer the questions i asked.

Go ahead, answer EVERY question:

So good works are a requirement?If that's the case, then the man i mention who becomes saved right before he dies isn't saved?A person cannot be saved on their death bed?

If good works are a requirement to get to heaven, then I guess those people are out of luck.

Quick question, how many good works must one perform?

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]Go ahead, answer EVERY question:

So good works are a requirement?If that's the case, then the man i mention who becomes saved right before he dies isn't saved?A person cannot be saved on their death bed?

If good works are a requirement to get to heaven, then I guess those people are out of luck.

Quick question, how many good works must one perform?

Qooroo

no, it's more about using logic. just think about it. it doesn't make sense if good works are a requirement for getting to heaven. If that's the case, then no one can be saved right before dying.

How about this:

The man on the cross next to Jesus. He was an evil man. He repented on the cross with Jesus. Jesus told him he will be going to heaven. He was an awful man who had not done good works. This clearly shows it is not a requirement.

It doesn't take interpretive reading, just a brain.

no, it's more about using logic. just think about it. it doesn't make sense if good works are a requirement for getting to heaven. If that's the case, then no one can be saved right before dying.

How about this:

The man on the cross next to Jesus. He was an evil man. He repented on the cross with Jesus. Jesus told him he will be going to heaven. He was an awful man who had not done good works. This clearly shows it is not a requirement.

It doesn't take interpretive reading, just a brain.

lilburtonboy748

It's wonderfully fitting that the first man into Heaven was a lowly thief. There's so much poetic meaning in that one event.

Because I don't deserve to suffer for all eternity in hell.SolidSnake35

This.

I would need to hoodwink him. I rip on Jesus people all the time. For one girl I gave her origin of Species by Darwin covered with the outside of the bible. If there is a god which there probably isn't I'm going straight to hellwhackedjob213

This whole thread is about crushmaster and his henchmen trying to preach us all to dead, they just won't stop throwing bible quotes around, and their only argument is "I'm right and you're wrong because the bible says so!".

There's a reason many of us don't go to church every sunday, and it's because we don't believe in this things and don't want them to be shoved down our throats until we start puking them left and right, oh sorry, I meant "preaching"...

Just let it die...