Why Should God Let You Into Heaven?

Can I slap YOU for what you have posted 010dragonslayerDarkSmokeNinja

Why?

[QUOTE="SegaGenesisfan"][QUOTE="freshgman"]

Im Muslim and yes i believe in heaven so i go with other

MFaraz_Hayat

Just because you believe in heaven, doesnt mean you are justified, the only way you are justified is through jesus christ, believing in his words, and faith in jesus christ alone. The muslim faith is unbiblical, you are following the broad way to hell.

You say that he was just a man, but he surely claimed that he was the son of god, if he wasnt, he would be a heretic, not just a prophet. If you deny his son, he will deny you.

The thing is allah isnt really god, allah is the pagan moon god http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm, allah does not mean god, it means allah, which is another god.

I am not trying to offend muslims, but to inform on the fact that allah isnt really god, he is a false god, muhammed is a false prophet.

People send themselves to hell, god isnt going to force you to love him, so if you dont though, then you will be guilty of sin. There is nothing cowardly about admitting that you are a sinner, and trusting your life to jesus. That is a rediculous arguement, no one has to go to hell, people go there, but that is their fault. That is gods wrath, because they never repented, they hated god in their hearts, and so they chose ultimately death. But, all you really have to do is acknowledge your sins, accept jesus, and you will be granted eternal life. Also freedom from your sins, all you have to do is believe. No rituals, no traditions, just faith alone.

The only reason why god should let you in heaven is if you followed his way which is through jesus christ, loving god, and repenting of your sins. You also have to turn away from sins, by then you have been justified through jesus christ, he won't see any evidence of your sins because jesus christ took your sins away, and he will want you in to his kingdom, which he wants everyone to inherit.

Aint so bad at all is it?)

Give it a rest. It's belief, mate. I too am a muslim and just as you find Islam wrong, I find Chrisianity wrong. You are judging Islam in the light of Bible, not realising that according to Islamic Belief Bible has been corrupted.

Anyways, the pagan moon god and Allah claim has been refuted countless times by me(just search the forums). To answer in 2 lines, the very name Allah refutes your claim. Allah is a word derived from Al-Ilah, which means "The One God".

Oh and Btw, just stick to the topic and please don't try to make this a Christian versus Muslim thread. A piece of advice: stop believing everything on the internet (obviius from you posting of anti-islamic site, and forwarding that claim without research).

And to TC, I am not sure wther I would go to heaven. But if I do, it may be because I donot do good for greed of heaven but rather for the sake of good itself.

whoa, hold up. Let's not make this one more Islamic debating.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"][QUOTE="Qooroo"][QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]Go ahead, answer EVERY question:

So good works are a requirement?If that's the case, then the man i mention who becomes saved right before he dies isn't saved?A person cannot be saved on their death bed?

If good works are a requirement to get to heaven, then I guess those people are out of luck.

Quick question, how many good works must one perform?

GabuEx

no, it's more about using logic. just think about it. it doesn't make sense if good works are a requirement for getting to heaven. If that's the case, then no one can be saved right before dying.

How about this:

The man on the cross next to Jesus. He was an evil man. He repented on the cross with Jesus. Jesus told him he will be going to heaven. He was an awful man who had not done good works. This clearly shows it is not a requirement.

It doesn't take interpretive reading, just a brain.

Dude, you are arguing against the Bible. I don't know how to tell you this. I don't need to answer any of your questions because I'm not making an argument; I'm simply showing you what the Bible says. You're basically arguing that something in the Bible doesn't make logical sense, which is something I would sooner expect from an atheist. :P

Ok...so since you can't answer my questions, i guess we found a logical fallacy then?

I believe God should let me into heaven because I live my life following his commandments and I am one of the very few genuinely nice people in this world. I have never gotten into a physical fight, I never turned anyone away from God, and I try to live life the best I can so that the world could be a better place. I also never cause people any pain, physically or mentally for my own enjoyment and I always forgive all the people you have done me wrong.

All I can hope for is that God is proud of me and that he accepts and loves me even with my imperfections.

Redneck33

Your humble.:|

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]Hold on just a minute. When Jesus said this, He was referring to Christians. Look at this verse:
(Ephesians 2:8-9) - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: {9} Not of works, lest any man should boast."
It is not by anything we have done - we don't deserve God's saving power.
But, if we accept His son into our hearts and repent of our sins, we will be saved!
(John 14:6) - "Jesus saith unto him; I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: No man cometh to the father (by what?) but by me."
Also, there is the verse thats "excepts a man be born again, he shall not see the kingdom of God" (or heaven).
And, how are we born again? By accepting Christ into our hearts and repenting of our sins.:)
(Romans 10:8-10) - "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; {9} That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. {10} For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."GabuEx

What Biblical basis do you have to present that he was referring to Christians? This is the direct quote from what he said:

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." (emph. added)

Nowhere does he say "Christians" - he quite clearly says that everyone will be gathered and divided into two groups. He then goes on to say that the group that goes to heaven is the group that has performed good works for other people. No reference is made whatsoever to faith at all.

God gathers everyone around and sends those who performed good works to heaven. Quite frankly it doesn't get any more clear-cut than what's found in the verses that I quoted.

no. it doesn't say those who do good works...god...you're such a catholic

[QUOTE="freshgman"]

Im Muslim and yes i believe in heaven so i go with other

SegaGenesisfan

Just because you believe in heaven, doesnt mean you are justified, the only way you are justified is through jesus christ, believing in his words, and faith in jesus christ alone. The muslim faith is unbiblical, you are following the broad way to hell.

You say that he was just a man, but he surely claimed that he was the son of god, if he wasnt, he would be a heretic, not just a prophet. If you deny his son, he will deny you.

The thing is allah isnt really god, allah is the pagan moon god http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm, allah does not mean god, it means allah, which is another god.

I am not trying to offend muslims, but to inform on the fact that allah isnt really god, he is a false god, muhammed is a false prophet.

People send themselves to hell, god isnt going to force you to love him, so if you dont though, then you will be guilty of sin. There is nothing cowardly about admitting that you are a sinner, and trusting your life to jesus. That is a rediculous arguement, no one has to go to hell, people go there, but that is their fault. That is gods wrath, because they never repented, they hated god in their hearts, and so they chose ultimately death. But, all you really have to do is acknowledge your sins, accept jesus, and you will be granted eternal life. Also freedom from your sins, all you have to do is believe. No rituals, no traditions, just faith alone.

The only reason why god should let you in heaven is if you followed his way which is through jesus christ, loving god, and repenting of your sins. You also have to turn away from sins, by then you have been justified through jesus christ, he won't see any evidence of your sins because jesus christ took your sins away, and he will want you in to his kingdom, which he wants everyone to inherit.

Aint so bad at all is it?)

And there goes one more futile preaching/conversion attempt...

Why can't you just let people express their views without jumping all over them? You're not any more right than he is. Does anyone seriously wonder why people find these kind of christians annoying? :roll:

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]Christians, many times, are referred to as sheep in the Bible, which is why God is called "The Great Shepherd". Thus, if sheep are the Christians, the only thing the goats could be are non-Christians.
(Matthew 25:33-34) - "And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. {34} Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."GabuEx

And then he goes on to say that the people he's talking about are the ones who did good works for other people, and that the people going to hell are those who did not do good works for other people.

show me the verse again that says good works are a REQUIREMENT for getting into heaven.

Those who have been saved through salvation do good works. Christians perform good works for God's glory, but it is a result of being a christian. If one is truly saved, then they will do good works. However, that doesn't mean by a long shot that it is the way to heaven.

When he separates the people into two groups, it is those who have recieved salvation by repenting that do good works. Recieving salvation alone is a good work.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]no. it doesn't say those who do good works...god...you're such a catholic Qooroo

No. Christians are the one's who perform good works. But the good works are not what makes them christians.

And yes, when i call someone a catholic it is an insult.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]Ok...so since you can't answer my questions, i guess we found a logical fallacy then?Qooroo

no, i'm saying according to him there is.

[QUOTE="Redneck33"]

I believe God should let me into heaven because I live my life following his commandments and I am one of the very few genuinely nice people in this world. I have never gotten into a physical fight, I never turned anyone away from God, and I try to live life the best I can so that the world could be a better place. I also never cause people any pain, physically or mentally for my own enjoyment and I always forgive all the people who have done me wrong.

All I can hope for is that God is proud of me and that he accepts and loves me even with my imperfections.

STWELCH

Your humble.:|

I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but I will take it as if you are not. Sure I am humble. I am just one insignificant person out of a few billion. I feel being humble is a good trait though. I actually tend to be too humble sometimes. Which is probably why people tell me I always have a low self-esteem:(.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]When he separates the people into two groups, it is those who have recieved salvation by repenting that do good works. Recieving salvation alone is a good work.Qooroo

and i have in fact said no.

speaking of that, can you answer my questions yet? didn't think so. care to explain why the evil man on the cross went to heaven?

No. Christians are the one's who perform good works. But the good works are not what makes them christians.

lilburtonboy748

So, Christians are the only ones on Earth who help the needy and the downtrodden?

Because that's the only logical interpretation of the passage from Matthew if we assume that Jesus is saying there that only Christians will be saved.

[QUOTE="STWELCH"][QUOTE="Redneck33"]

I believe God should let me into heaven because I live my life following his commandments and I am one of the very few genuinely nice people in this world. I have never gotten into a physical fight, I never turned anyone away from God, and I try to live life the best I can so that the world could be a better place. I also never cause people any pain, physically or mentally for my own enjoyment and I always forgive all the people who have done me wrong.

All I can hope for is that God is proud of me and that he accepts and loves me even with my imperfections.

Redneck33

Your humble.:|

I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic or not, but I will take it as if you are not. Sure I am humble. I am just one insignificant person out of a few billion. I feel being humble is a good trait though. I actually tend to be too humble sometimes. Which is probably why people tell me I always have a low self-esteem:(.

I was joking ;).

And I to, and so do many others suffer from low self esteem.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]No. Christians are the one's who perform good works. But the good works are not what makes them christians.

And yes, when i call someone a catholic it is an insult. Qooroo

their good works are the only one's that get them any reward in the after life.

oh, and i don't mind offending catholics one bit.

[QUOTE="Qooroo"][QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]No. Christians are the one's who perform good works. But the good works are not what makes them christians.

And yes, when i call someone a catholic it is an insult. lilburtonboy748

their good works are the only one's that get them any reward in the after life.

[QUOTE="Qooroo"][QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]No. Christians are the one's who perform good works. But the good works are not what makes them christians.

And yes, when i call someone a catholic it is an insult. lilburtonboy748

their good works are the only one's that get them any reward in the after life.

oh, and i don't mind offending catholics one bit.

And here we have another example of why evangelical Christians are widely hated throughout the world!

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]and i have in fact said no.

speaking of that, can you answer my questions yet? didn't think so. care to explain why the evil man on the cross went to heaven?

Qooroo

sorry, i guess i didn't see it.

answer it one more time.

If good works are a requirement, then how did the man on the cross go to heaven?

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"][QUOTE="Qooroo"][QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]No. Christians are the one's who perform good works. But the good works are not what makes them christians.

And yes, when i call someone a catholic it is an insult. STWELCH

their good works are the only one's that get them any reward in the after life.

oh, and i don't mind offending catholics one bit.

And here we have another example of why evangelical Christians are widely hated throughout the world!

LAWL!!11 totally dude

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]sorry, i guess i didn't see it.

answer it one more time.

If good works are a requirement, then how did the man on the cross go to heaven? Qooroo

Oh...hmm...that's funny, i thought you answered it...liar.

and anyways...i don't care about Gabu or anything else. You are the one defending this so strongly(or poorly), so I want you yourself to use your brain and answer that question.

I have been asking you almost every post. If you hold the position that good works get you into heaven, then you have to be able to answer it. Plain and simple.

If you don't hold that position, that just say so. That way I don't have to keep asking it.

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]Oh...hmm...that's funny, i thought you answered it...liar.

and anyways...i don't care about Gabu or anything else. You are the one defending this so strongly(or poorly), so I want you yourself to use your brain and answer that question.

I have been asking you almost every post. If you hold the position that good works get you into heaven, then you have to be able to answer it. Plain and simple.

If you don't hold that position, that just say so. That way I don't have to keep asking it.

Qooroo

You couldn't answer the question because you don't know how to use your brain. And i disagree because it doesn't say that good works alone can get you into heaven.

You seem to be confused. The purpose of GabuEx posting those passages was to demonstrate an inconsistency in the Bible, nothing more. By asking that the inconsistency be resolved, you're basically admitting that it's there.Qooroo

Not necessarily to demonstrate an inconsistency - I'm certainly not one to go around telling people that the Bible is nonsense and should not be trusted - but rather just to show that it's not exactly the cut-and-dry slam dunk of "believe in Jesus or go to hell" that many seem to preach. To be frank I get quite annoyed when people who preach that the Bible is the literal Word of God then turn around and try to pretend that certain verses within the Bible don't exist.

their good works are the only one's that get them any reward in the after life.

lilburtonboy748

Precisely what is the Biblical basis of that? The verses in Matthew 25 are quite clear: those who perform good works go to heaven, and those who do not perform good works go to hell. If you are asserting that Jesus is saying that only Christians go to heaven, then you necessarily must make the additional assertion that only Christians can perform good works.

If good works are a requirement, then how did the man on the cross go to heaven?

lilburtonboy748

Read Dante's Inferno, it covers that.

or rather, the Purgatorio of the Divine Comedy.

Dante starts the ascent of Mount Purgatory at sunrise. On the lower slopes (designated as "ante-Purgatory" by commentators) Dante meets first a group of excommunicates, detained for a period thirty times as long as their period of contumacy. Ascending higher, he encounters those too lazy to repent until shortly before death, and those who suffered violent deaths (often due to leading extremely sinful lives). These souls will be admitted to Purgatory thanks to their genuine repentance, but must wait outside for an amount of time equal to their lives on earth (Cantos III through VI).

[QUOTE="lilburtonboy748"]

If good works are a requirement, then how did the man on the cross go to heaven?

Hewkii

Read Dante's Inferno, it covers that.

Dante's Inferno isn't necessarily correct in the portrayal of hell. You have to keep in mind of his emotional state as he was writing most of the things in his book. That's why he encounters various specific people in hell who weren't even dead at the time he wrote it.

Dante's Inferno isn't necessarily correct in the portrayal of hell. You have to keep in mind of his emotional state as he was writing most of the things in his book. That's why he encounters various specific people in hell who weren't even dead at the time he wrote it.

Shad0ki11

it doesn't have to be correct, it just shows how it could be possible.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]

Dante's Inferno isn't necessarily correct in the portrayal of hell. You have to keep in mind of his emotional state as he was writing most of the things in his book. That's why he encounters various specific people in hell who weren't even dead at the time he wrote it.

Hewkii

it doesn't have to be correct, it just shows how it could be possible.

It was like his literary revenge. He could categorize where his enemies were placed in his depiction of hell especially those who were close and betrayed him.

[QUOTE="freshgman"]

Im Muslim and yes i believe in heaven so i go with other

SegaGenesisfan

Just because you believe in heaven, doesnt mean you are justified, the only way you are justified is through jesus christ, believing in his words, and faith in jesus christ alone. The muslim faith is unbiblical, you are following the broad way to hell.

You say that he was just a man, but he surely claimed that he was the son of god, if he wasnt, he would be a heretic, not just a prophet. If you deny his son, he will deny you.

The thing is allah isnt really god, allah is the pagan moon god http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm, allah does not mean god, it means allah, which is another god.

I am not trying to offend muslims, but to inform on the fact that allah isnt really god, he is a false god, muhammed is a false prophet.

People send themselves to hell, god isnt going to force you to love him, so if you dont though, then you will be guilty of sin. There is nothing cowardly about admitting that you are a sinner, and trusting your life to jesus. That is a rediculous arguement, no one has to go to hell, people go there, but that is their fault. That is gods wrath, because they never repented, they hated god in their hearts, and so they chose ultimately death. But, all you really have to do is acknowledge your sins, accept jesus, and you will be granted eternal life. Also freedom from your sins, all you have to do is believe. No rituals, no traditions, just faith alone.

The only reason why god should let you in heaven is if you followed his way which is through jesus christ, loving god, and repenting of your sins. You also have to turn away from sins, by then you have been justified through jesus christ, he won't see any evidence of your sins because jesus christ took your sins away, and he will want you in to his kingdom, which he wants everyone to inherit.

Aint so bad at all is it?)

By your account God isn't a very fair person then..."Love me or be sent to burn in fiery damnation!" Riiight.

[QUOTE="Qooroo"]

You seem to be confused. The purpose of GabuEx posting those passages was to demonstrate an inconsistency in the Bible, nothing more. By asking that the inconsistency be resolved, you're basically admitting that it's there.GabuEx

Not necessarily to demonstrate an inconsistency - I'm certainly not one to go around telling people that the Bible is nonsense and should not be trusted - but rather just to show that it's not exactly the cut-and-dry slam dunk of "believe in Jesus or go to hell" that many seem to preach. To be frank I get quite annoyed when people who preach that the Bible is the literal Word of God then turn around and try to pretend that certain verses within the Bible don't exist.

their good works are the only one's that get them any reward in the after life.

lilburtonboy748

Precisely what is the Biblical basis of that? The verses in Matthew 25 are quite clear: those who perform good works go to heaven, and those who do not perform good works go to hell. If you are asserting that Jesus is saying that only Christians go to heaven, then you necessarily must make the additional assertion that only Christians can perform good works.

[QUOTE="blackngold29"]That's for Him to decide.Crushmaster

Don't ask me why 010dragonslayer

Because I'm crazy:|

Works are not salvific...The Bible makes that quite clear.
(Ephesians 2:8-9) - "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: {9} Not of works, lest any man should boast."
As I said before, the sheep in the parable represent Christians, and the goats represent non-Christians.
Also, the Bible makes it very clear that, "except a man be born again, he shall not see the Kingdom of Heaven".
How is one born again? It explains later in the chapter:
( John 3:14-18 ) - "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: {15} That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. {16} For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. {17} For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. {18} He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
"Believeth in Him". Thus, to be saved, we must believe in Christ as our Lord and Savior, and accept Him in our heart to be born again. Or, for an even clearer presentation, Romans 10:8-10 explains quite well:
(Romans 10:8-10) - "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; {9} That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. {10} For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
Also:
(Mark 16:16) - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
(Luke 13:3) - "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise (what?) perish."
Those who do not believe in Christ as their Lord and Savior and repent of their sins will perish!
Now, let's turn to Revelation:
(Revelation 20:15) - "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
And the only way our names are written in the Book of Life is if we become Christians. Unlike before, Christians are now on their way to God's Kingdom, Heaven. However...
Those who's names are not written in the Book of Life are on their way to a devil's hell.
But God provided a way to be saved...through His Son, Jesus Christ, as John 14:6 and Romans 10:8-10 show quite clearly.

Crushmaster

Except for the fact that in Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus said quite plainly that those who do good works go to heaven and those who don't go to hell. There were no metaphors or anything; he said that God will bring everyone to judgment and send those who did good works to heaven and those who did not to hell.

If you're going to argue that those verses are symbolic and not what they literally are saying, then how exactly do you know that that is not true of the verses that you're quoting instead?

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="blackngold29"]That's for Him to decide.C_BozkurT_C

They are getting paid in Bible quotes only. They probably look forward to getting that special envelope in the mail...with the page of Bible quotes and when they retire they get a brand-new Bible to add to their collection!