Why the US Will Still be the Only Superpower in 2030.

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KillaHalo2o9

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#1 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts

"Why the US Will Still be the Only Superpower in 2030

One of the most popular dinner party conversation topics is the possibility that the United States will be joined or even surpassed as a superpower by another nation, such as China. China has some very smart people, a vast land area, and over four times the population of the US, so it should catch up easily, right? Let's assess the what makes a superpower, and what it would take for China to match the USon each pillar of superpowerdom.

A genuine superpower does not merely have military and political influence, but also must be at the top of the economic, scientific, and cultural pyramids. Thus, the Soviet Union was only a partial superpower, and the most recent genuine superpower before the United States was the British Empire.

To match the US by 2030, China would have to :

1) Have an economy near the size of the US economy. If the US grows by 3.5% a year for the next 25 years, it will be $30 trillion in 2006 dollars by then. Note that this is a modest assumption for the US, given the accelerating nature of economic growth, but also note that world GDP only grows about 4% a year, and this might at most be 5% a year by 2030. China, with an economy of $2.2 trillion in nominal (not PPP) terms, would have to grow at 12% a year for the next 25 years straight to achieve the same size, which is already faster than its current 9-10% rate, if even that can be sustained for so long (no country, let alone a large one, has grown at more than 8% over such a long period). In other words, the progress that the US economy would make from 1945 to 2030 (85 years) would have to be achieved by China in just the 25 years from 2005 to 2030. Even then, this is just the total GDP, not per capita GDP, which would still be merely a fourth of America's.

2) Create original consumer brands that are household names everywhere in the world (including in America), such as Coca-Cola, Nike, McDonalds, Citigroup, Xerox, Microsoft, or Google. Europe and Japan have created a few brands in a few select industries, but China currently has none. Observing how many American brand logos have populated billboards and sporting events in developing nations over just the last 15 years, one might argue that US dominance has even increased by this measure.

3) Have a military capable of waging wars anywhere in the globe (even if it does not actually wage any). Part of the opposition that anti-Americans have to the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq is the envy arising from the US being the only country with the means to invade multiple medium-size countries in other continents and still sustain very few casualties. No other country currently is even near having the ability to project military power with such force andrange. Mere nuclear weapons are no substitute for this. The inability of the rest of the world to do anything to halt genocide in Darfur is evidence of how such problems can only get addressed if and when America addresses them.

4) Have major universities that are household names, that many of the worlds top students aspire to attend. 17 of the world's top 20 universities are in the US. Until top students in Europe, India, and even the US are filling out an application for a Chinese university alongside those of Harvard, Stanford, MIT, or Cambridge, China is not going to match the US in the knowledge economy. This also represents the obstacles China has to overcome to successfully conduct impactful scientific research.

5) Attract the best and brightest to immigrate into China, where they can expect to live a good life in Chinese society. The US effectively receives a subsidy of $100 to $200 billion a year, as people educated at the expense of another nation immigrate here and promptly participate in the workforce. As smart as people within China are, unless they can attract non-Chinese talent that is otherwise going to the US, and even talented Americans, they will not have the same intellectual and psychological cross-pollination, and hence miss out on those economic benefits. The small matter of people not wanting to move into a country that is not a democracy also has to be resolved.

6) Become the nation that produces the new inventions and corporations that are adopted by the mass market into their daily lives. From the telephone and airplane over a century ago, America has been the engine of almost all technological progress. Despite the fears of innovation going overseas, the big new technologies and influential applications continue to emerge from companies headquartered in the United States. Just in the last two years, Google emerged as the next super-lucrative company (before eBay and Yahoo slightly earlier), and the American-dominated 'blogosphere' emerged as a powerful force of information and media.

7) Be the leader in entertainment and culture. China's film industry greatly lags India's, let alone America's. We hear about piracy of American music and films in China, which tells us exactly what the world order is. When American teenagers are actively pirating music and movies made in China, only then will the US have been surpassed in this area. Take a moment to think how distant this scenario is from current reality.

8) Be the nation that engineers many of the greatest moments of human accomplishment. The USSR was ahead of the US in the space race at first, until President Kennedy decided in 1961 to put a man on the moon by 1969. While this mission initially seemed to be unnecessary and expensive, the optimism and pride brought to anti-Communist people worldwide was so inspirational that it accelerated many other forms of technological progress and brought economic growth to free-market countries. This eventually led to a global exodus from socialism altogether, as the pessimism necessary for socialism to exist became harder to enforce. People from many nations still feel pride from humanity having set foot on the Moon, something which America made possible.

China currently has plans to put a man on the moon by 2024. While being only the second country to achieve this would certainly be prestigious, it would still be 55 years after the United States achieved the same thing. That is not quite the trajectory it would take to approach the superpowerdom of the US by 2030. If China puts a man on Mars before the US, I may change my opinion on this point, but the odds of that happening are not high.

9) Be the nation expected to thanklessly use its own resources to solve many of the world's problems. If the US donates $15 billion in aid to Africa, the first reaction from critics is that the US did not donate enough. On the other hand, few even consider asking China to donate aid to Africa. After the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the fashionable question was why the US did not donate even more and sooner, rather than why China did not donate more, despite being geographically much closer. Ask yourself this - if an asteroid were on a collision course with the Earth, which country's technology would the world depend on to detect it, and then destroy or divert it? Until China is relied upon to an equal degree, it is not in the same league.

10) Adapt to the underappreciated burden of superpowerdom - the huge double standards that a benign superpower must withstand in that role. America is still condemned for slavery that ended 140 years ago, even by nations that have done far worse things more recently than that. Is China prepared to apologize for Tianenmen Square, the genocide in Tibet, the 30 million who perished during the Great Leap Forward, and the suppression of news about SARS,every day for the next century? Is China remotely prepared for being blamed for inaction towards genocide in Darfur while simultaneously being condemned for non-deadly prison abuse in a time of war against opponents who follow no rules of engagement? The amount of unfairness China would have to withstand to truly achieve political parity with America might be prohibitive given China's history over the last 60 years. Furthermore, China being held to the superpower standard would simultaneously reduce the burden that the US currently bears alone, allowing the US to operate with less opposition than it experiences today.

Of the ten points above, Europe and Japan have tried for decades, and have only achieved parity with the US on maybe two of these dimensions at most. China will surpass Europe and Japan by 2030 by achieving perhaps two or possibly even three out of these ten points, but attaining all ten is something I am willing to confidently bet against. The dream of anti-Americanswho relish the prospect of any nation, even a non-democratic one, surpassing the US is still a very distant one.

A point that many bring up is that empires have always risen and fallen throughout history. This is partly true, but note that the Roman Empire lasted for over 1000 years after its peak. Also note that the British Empire never actually collapsed since Britain is still one of the the top seven countries in the world today, and the English language is the most widely spoken in the world. Britain was merely surpassed by its descendant, with whom it shares a symbiotic relationship. The US can expect the same if it is finally surpassed, at some point much later than 2030 and probably not before the Technological Singularity, which would make the debate moot.

That writing this article is even worthwhile is a tribute to how far China has come and how much it might achieve, but nonetheless, there is no other country that will be a superpower on par with the US by 2030. This is one of the safest predictions The Futurist can make."

http://futurist.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/05/why_the_us_will.html

Whats your thoughts on this article? Do you think China or India will take the United States spot?

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PrimordialMeme

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#2 PrimordialMeme
Member since 2007 • 1279 Posts
Its not so much that China or India will become the superpower, as the US will start to level out with the rest of the world in economic terms. Thats already happening quite rapidly.
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meteorgun7

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#3 meteorgun7
Member since 2003 • 25135 Posts
Based on this article, it looks like China or India wont' be able to catch up. The US will still be the only superpower in 2030.
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PrimordialMeme

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#4 PrimordialMeme
Member since 2007 • 1279 Posts
The future doesn't have a superpower. Governments take a backseat to corporate domination. Global capitalist control by a handful of corporations is the future.
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KillaHalo2o9

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#5 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts
The future doesn't have a superpower. Governments take a backseat to corporate domination. Global capitalist control by a handful of corporations is the future.PrimordialMeme

Dam Wal-Mart lol.

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UrbanSpartan125

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#6 UrbanSpartan125
Member since 2006 • 3684 Posts
You're right on with that.
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Trickshot771

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#7 Trickshot771
Member since 2005 • 12686 Posts
Interesting, although I never really thought of countries like China and India to become a superpower. That's just me, though.
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UrbanSpartan125

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#8 UrbanSpartan125
Member since 2006 • 3684 Posts
The Technological Singularity idea is very interesting, it seems like a very possible outcome.
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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#9 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

The future doesn't have a superpower. Governments take a backseat to corporate domination. Global capitalist control by a handful of corporations is the future.PrimordialMeme

I actually agree with this.. Take the United States for instance.. Big business has entirelly too much control in politics through lobbying.. Haliburton is proof of this.. How much has their practices costed the United States? Its really disgusting what that company is doing over there.. Did you know that semi's licensed over there do not have filters on their engines, nor carry any spare tires.. So what happens if one breaks down or gets multiple flats? The soldiers are forced to destroy it so it does not fall in to enemey hands.. The US pays for these replacements at $80,000 a pop.. I am by no means for communism or socialism.. But I do see a immense problem happenign with big business..

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Mr_Manikin52

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#10 Mr_Manikin52
Member since 2004 • 12300 Posts
My bet is on the European Union.
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#11 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts

the conly ones which are core to beingh a superpower are 1 and 3

9 and 10 are nothing to do with it

4 and 5 just support number 8

2 has a slight amount to do with superpowernism as they add to the economy but if the country holds all the sub contractors which the brands relay on then they hold power over them

6 and 7 are not neccessery if runing a state like the USSR where all imports were strictly controlled

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UrbanSpartan125

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#12 UrbanSpartan125
Member since 2006 • 3684 Posts
My bet is on the European Union.Mr_Manikin52
Not if the North American Union is formed.
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KillaHalo2o9

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#13 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts

[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]The future doesn't have a superpower. Governments take a backseat to corporate domination. Global capitalist control by a handful of corporations is the future.sSubZerOo

I actually agree with this.. Take the United States for instance.. Big business has entirelly too much control in politics through lobbying.. Haliburton is proof of this.. How much has their practices costed the United States? Its really disgusting what that company is doing over there.. Did you know that semi's licensed over there do not have filters on their engines, nor carry any spare tires.. So what happens if one breaks down or gets multiple flats? The soldiers are forced to destroy it so it does not fall in to enemey hands.. The US pays for these replacements at $80,000 a pop.. I am by no means for communism or socialism.. But I do see a immense problem happenign with big business..

If business practices do get out control than the government will step in and stop them.

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horgen

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#14 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127735 Posts
And how many of those points have EU, Eroupean Union achieved?
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#15 grarap
Member since 2004 • 5780 Posts
Who can tell? The US is showing signs of decline, whilst China is on the rise. Then again, an unforseen future event could entirely upset the balance. China's booming economy for instance is built on relatively shaky financial ground. Once we go into recession again within the next few years (presumably) things will get interesting.
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PrimordialMeme

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#16 PrimordialMeme
Member since 2007 • 1279 Posts
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]The future doesn't have a superpower. Governments take a backseat to corporate domination. Global capitalist control by a handful of corporations is the future.KillaHalo2o9

I actually agree with this.. Take the United States for instance.. Big business has entirelly too much control in politics through lobbying.. Haliburton is proof of this.. How much has their practices costed the United States? Its really disgusting what that company is doing over there.. Did you know that semi's licensed over there do not have filters on their engines, nor carry any spare tires.. So what happens if one breaks down or gets multiple flats? The soldiers are forced to destroy it so it does not fall in to enemey hands.. The US pays for these replacements at $80,000 a pop.. I am by no means for communism or socialism.. But I do see a immense problem happenign with big business..

If business practices do get out control than the government will step in and stop them.

In theory, but thats not the case when the government IS business. And that is the current situation. Corporations run the US government. They buy off every top politician legally and the revolving door (of jobs after office and in between terms) is there for them and goes almost unspoken of. Thats called systemic corruption, more accurately its corporatism in modern society. The point that guy Subzero made is very valid. Halliburton/KBR has gotten 9 times more than any other contractor. The issue of corporatism cannot be ignored in this debate.

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KillaHalo2o9

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#17 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts

Who can tell? The US is showing signs of decline, whilst China is on the rise. Then again, an unforseen future event could entirely upset the balance. China's booming economy for instance is built on relatively shaky financial ground. Once we go into recession again within the next few years (presumably) things will get interesting.grarap

China's rise is built upon exports, but what if the rest of the world starts imposing tariffs on its exports.

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deadmeat59

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#18 deadmeat59
Member since 2003 • 8981 Posts
the us is doing very bad. there beening killed by the chinese. they cant even keep there amry going with out getting cash from china and japan. china grows at 10.5% in 10 years there making more then 2 times what they did 10 years befor.
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#19 foxhound_fox
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I'd be surprised if the US economy makes it past 2015... with everything being made in China and being sold through Wal-Mart, the only thing China has to do is stop shipping merchandise to the US and the US economy will crumble taking the government and its oil driven attitude with it.

The next several years are going to shape the face of the planet for a long time to come... and I hope the human race takes the compassionate and intelligent way out.
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PrimordialMeme

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#20 PrimordialMeme
Member since 2007 • 1279 Posts

And how many of those points have EU, Eroupean Union achieved?horgen123

The Euro has doubled in relation to the dollar in the last decade...

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#21 Greyhound222
Member since 2005 • 2899 Posts
My bet is on the European Union.Mr_Manikin52
Same here.Most countries in the EU nowadays have an extremely stable economy.
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deadmeat59

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#22 deadmeat59
Member since 2003 • 8981 Posts
I'd be surprised if the US economy makes it past 2015... with everything being made in China and being sold through Wal-Mart, the only thing China has to do is stop shipping merchandise to the US and the US economy will crumble taking the government and its oil driven attitude with it.

The next several years are going to shape the face of the planet for a long time to come... and I hope the human race takes the compassionate and intelligent way out.foxhound_fox
thats very true. almost every thing you buy is from china. if china goes say good bye to your computers , cars , colthes , tv , video games , and so on . if china stoped selling us stuff a few weeks later all majoe retailers would be dead . wal mart would be empty everyone would lose there jobs.
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KillaHalo2o9

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#23 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts

[QUOTE="horgen123"]And how many of those points have EU, Eroupean Union achieved?PrimordialMeme

The Euro has doubled in relation to the dollar in the last decade...

A rise in the value of a nations currency dose not determine the overall power or wealth of a nation, just look at the yen and Japan.

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#24 vitomanez
Member since 2005 • 1581 Posts

Too long to read...but I'll act like I did..

Wow! That completely makes sense!

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KillaHalo2o9

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#25 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts

[QUOTE="Mr_Manikin52"]My bet is on the European Union.Greyhound222
Same here.Most countries in the EU nowadays have an extremely stable economy.

and high unemployment rate.:roll:

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muppet1010

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#26 muppet1010
Member since 2006 • 5812 Posts
By 2030 he EU will most likely be much closer and EU > USA
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#27 hojobojo
Member since 2005 • 1268 Posts

You do not need some of those points to become a Superpower.. anyway who said China will become a superpower by 2030.. it will probably take longer but eventually it will probably over take US.

Also about China not being a democracy.. correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Communist party officals elected by the people?

Don't they have local elections?
As for US being a Democracy... it's not much better than China.. it's a republic hence it doesn't not have to be a democracy and really, it isn't one...

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PrimordialMeme

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#28 PrimordialMeme
Member since 2007 • 1279 Posts

A rise in the value of a nation currency dose not determine the overall power of nation, just look at the yen and Japan.

KillaHalo2o9

In economic terms it means a lot when comparing two dominant economic powers as the EU and the US. Of course its not everything, it doesn't mean the buying power of the dollar has suddenly havled or the euro has suddenly doubled in worldwide terms, but it is a notable trend that should be understood in very real terms. In 1997 the euro was in the 70 cent range of the USD. Now the Euro is about worth about a $1.50 and that is a huge flucation among these world power structures. The EU is a modernizing economy with twice the population as the US. The rest of the world is just beginning to modernize.

This aside, there are reasons for the recent decline of the dollar. The US dollar hegemony of petrodollars is decreasing, oil rich contries are diversifying. The increasing price of oil is the greatest threat to the US economy, blame bush for these wars in the oil regions for screwing up the price. The instability caused by US invasions has speculators going wild. In dollars per barrel, oil has increased 5 fold since Bush took office.

The US national debt is an issue, its now standing at 9 trillion and we are printing money and lending over our limits. This can only be sustained for so long. Inflation is happening in the US and will only continue if trends keep up. And the spread of technology and outsourcing will continue to undercut the economic competitiveness of US business. Other countries are outpacing the US in terms of birthrate. All of these factors are serious. The US will not be the future superpower, I don't mean to sound bleek but corporate power is really the power. I believe in localism though, its just very difficult to resist economic power systems if not impossible. Still, I don't understand why the US is hell bent on outsourcing.

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horgen

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#29 horgen  Moderator
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[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]

[QUOTE="horgen123"]And how many of those points have EU, Eroupean Union achieved?KillaHalo2o9

The Euro has doubled in relation to the dollar in the last decade...

A rise in the value of a nations currency dose not determine the overall power or wealth of a nation, just look at the yen and Japan.


The Europe Union is not a single nation. It's almost all of Europe.
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KillaHalo2o9

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#30 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts

By 2030 he EU will most likely be much closer and EU > USAmuppet1010

Keep in mind that the EU is a union and not a nation.

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Greyhound222

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#31 Greyhound222
Member since 2005 • 2899 Posts

[QUOTE="Greyhound222"][QUOTE="Mr_Manikin52"]My bet is on the European Union.KillaHalo2o9

Same here.Most countries in the EU nowadays have an extremely stable economy.

and high unemployment rate.:roll:

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10002042.shtml Cool,I'm from Ireland,and my unemployment rate is.....lower? The UK is also.
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#32 Shiggums
Member since 2007 • 21436 Posts

Too much to read :(

Also, I don't think the US will be the only superpower, there'll be others. There will never be a time where only 1 superpower exists (at least, not THAT soon)

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KillaHalo2o9

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#33 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts
[QUOTE="KillaHalo2o9"]

[QUOTE="Greyhound222"][QUOTE="Mr_Manikin52"]My bet is on the European Union.Greyhound222

Same here.Most countries in the EU nowadays have an extremely stable economy.

and high unemployment rate.:roll:

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10002042.shtml Cool,I'm from Ireland,and my unemployment rate is.....lower? The UK is also.

and the United States unemployment rate is 4.8%.

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muppet1010

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#35 muppet1010
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[QUOTE="muppet1010"]By 2030 he EU will most likely be much closer and EU > USAKillaHalo2o9

Keep in mind that the EU is a union and not a nation.

that was my point... at its present state it is very loose... things are being done to make it much closer and by 2030 ruling out any disasters the EU will be a much stronger Union.Things are already being done for a "European army" which if it ever happens would be the most powerful single army in the world. It would have a blend of lots of nations technologies, and a potentially monstrous cash reserve and buying power.

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#36 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts
[QUOTE="KillaHalo2o9"]

A rise in the value of a nation currency dose not determine the overall power of nation, just look at the yen and Japan.

PrimordialMeme

In economic terms it means a lot when comparing two dominant economic powers as the EU and the US. Of course its not everything, it doesn't mean the buying power of the dollar has suddenly havled or the euro has suddenly doubled in worldwide terms, but it is a notable trend that should be understood in very real terms. In 1997 the euro was in the 70 cent range of the USD. Now the Euro is about worth about a $1.50 and that is a huge flucation among these world power structures. The EU is a modernizing economy with twice the population as the US. The rest of the world is just beginning to modernize.

This aside, there are reasons for the recent decline of the dollar. The US dollar hegemony of petrodollars is decreasing, oil rich contries are diversifying. The increasing price of oil is the greatest threat to the US economy, blame bush for these wars in the oil regions for screwing up the price. The instability caused by US invasions has speculators going wild. In dollars per barrel, oil has increased 5 fold since Bush took office.

The US national debt is an issue, its now standing at 9 trillion and we are printing money and lending over our limits. This can only be sustained for so long. Inflation is happening in the US and will only continue if trends keep up. And the spread of technology and outsourcing will continue to undercut the economic competitiveness of US business. Other countries are outpacing the US in terms of birthrate. All of these factors are serious. The US will not be the future superpower, I don't mean to sound bleek but corporate power is really the power. I believe in localism though, its just very difficult to resist economic power systems if not impossible. Still, I don't understand why the US is hell bent on outsourcing.

I agree with most of the points you have made, but the birth rate issue is not a much of a concern with the US as it is with Japan and the EU.

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rimnet00

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#37 rimnet00
Member since 2003 • 11003 Posts

Plagarism only makes you look a fool. Especially, when you are posing a assosiates level economy question to a forum of people who average a sub college age group. Not to mention, if anyone were to create a retort against the claims made by the original author, there is no one to respond on his behalf.

On that note, no one can predict the future. Not even the best economists can predict what will happen over 20 years from now.

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Blitz_Nemesis

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#38 Blitz_Nemesis
Member since 2005 • 8042 Posts
2030?? the worlds gonna end 2012.
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foxhound_fox

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#39 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Also, I don't think the US will be the only superpower, there'll be others. There will never be a time where only 1 superpower exists (at least, not THAT soon)Shiggums

Indeed. If there ever is a "singular" superpower then all the people of the Earth will be ruled under a massive dictatorial regime.
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darkIink

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#40 darkIink
Member since 2006 • 2705 Posts

The future doesn't have a superpower. Governments take a backseat to corporate domination. Global capitalist control by a handful of corporations is the future.PrimordialMeme

Just read "Feed" huh?

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KillaHalo2o9

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#41 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts
[QUOTE="KillaHalo2o9"]

[QUOTE="muppet1010"]By 2030 he EU will most likely be much closer and EU > USAmuppet1010

Keep in mind that the EU is a union and not a nation.

that was my point... at its present state it is very loose... things are being done to make it much closer and by 2030 ruling out any disasters the EU will be a much stronger Union.Things are already being done for a "European army" which if it ever happens would be the most powerful single army in the world. It would have a blend of lots of nations technologies, and a potentially monstrous cash reserve and buying power.

You are saying that the EU will be a stronger union in 2030, but just look what happened to the Soviet Union. I disagree with your opinion that you have made about EUs Amy being the strongest of all. Before anything can be done it needs to START.

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horgen

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#42 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127735 Posts
[QUOTE="KillaHalo2o9"]

[QUOTE="muppet1010"]By 2030 he EU will most likely be much closer and EU > USAmuppet1010

Keep in mind that the EU is a union and not a nation.

that was my point... at its present state it is very loose... things are being done to make it much closer and by 2030 ruling out any disasters the EU will be a much stronger Union.Things are already being done for a "European army" which if it ever happens would be the most powerful single army in the world. It would have a blend of lots of nations technologies, and a potentially monstrous cash reserve and buying power.

If Norway join that would indeed help on that.
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KillaHalo2o9

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#43 KillaHalo2o9
Member since 2006 • 5305 Posts

Plagarism only makes you look a fool. Especially, when you are posing a assosiates level economy question to a forum of people who average a sub college age group. Not to mention, if anyone were to create a retort against the claims made by the original author, there is no one to respond on his behalf.

On that note, no one can predict the future. Not even the best economists can predict what will happen over 20 years from now.

rimnet00

Plagiarism huh? I gave you the link from the original site on the bottom of the post.(Learn how to spell the word)

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LikeHaterade

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#44 LikeHaterade
Member since 2007 • 10645 Posts
I just hope that the US still exists in 2030 and not the NAU.
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muppet1010

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#45 muppet1010
Member since 2006 • 5812 Posts
[QUOTE="muppet1010"][QUOTE="KillaHalo2o9"]

[QUOTE="muppet1010"]By 2030 he EU will most likely be much closer and EU > USAKillaHalo2o9

Keep in mind that the EU is a union and not a nation.

that was my point... at its present state it is very loose... things are being done to make it much closer and by 2030 ruling out any disasters the EU will be a much stronger Union.Things are already being done for a "European army" which if it ever happens would be the most powerful single army in the world. It would have a blend of lots of nations technologies, and a potentially monstrous cash reserve and buying power.

You are saying that the EU will be a stronger in 2030, but just look what happened to the Soviet Union. I disagree with your opinion that you have made about EUs Amy being the strongest of all. Before anything can be done it needs to START.

Like I said the combined power of the European Union would be pretty awesome...

I fail to see how you can compare Europe to Russia aswell... Europe isnt an Emerging Superpower Europe was THE super Power(or powers) before the America we know today was even in Existance. The america we know today is a result of the British Empire (in its day the most complete superpower there ever has been) and the British Empire comes from? yep Europe. Europe has always been a very powerful Land and will be for the foreseeable future.

the Sum total of the Sovereign states of Europes armies and resources is greater than that of Americas. At this moment in time America is spending a massive amount of its GDP on its military where as Europe is spending a much smaller percentage. Yet with that much smaller percentage the combined military power of Europe is easily on a par. If Europe was to level its spending to that of ASmerica's I think its fair to say we would see the Power pf Europes armies surpass that of Americas.

But this is all "if"

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foxhound_fox

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#46 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
You are saying that the EU will be a stronger union in 2030, but just look what happened to the Soviet Union. I disagree with your opinion that you have made about EUs Amy being the strongest of all. Before anything can be done it needs to START. KillaHalo2o9

The Soviet Union had two massive flaws... it was run based on Communism and it was run based on Communism by an insane man who didn't follow the ideals of the societal process.

And the strength of an army doesn't determine how powerful a nation is. That is just an illusion. The economy and government popularity among the people is what determines a nations true strength.

Just because you can bully other countries doesn't make you powerful... or smart.
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PrimordialMeme

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#47 PrimordialMeme
Member since 2007 • 1279 Posts

[QUOTE="PrimordialMeme"]The future doesn't have a superpower. Governments take a backseat to corporate domination. Global capitalist control by a handful of corporations is the future.darkIink

Just read "Feed" huh?

Not yet, but it looks good from what im seeing on amazon lol. Thanks for the recommendation on that.

Clearly you have my interests pegged. I'll recommend you read Jennifer Government by Max Berry, and see Idiocracy by Mike Judge.

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peter1191

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#48 peter1191
Member since 2005 • 591 Posts

Most of the posters here have no idea what their talking about. Like this one guy that says that the communism officials are elected by their people and the US isn't that much better at democracy......its one big joke here. Basically, no nation on its own will be up to par with the US by 2030, unless the US takes a nose-dive. The EU is a joke of a "union" much less a nation. Its members are very much different politically (as in they take their own policies, etc.) and Europeans have yet to show a care for their brother's problems or opinions (British like the US vs. Germany & France hating them, on a public opinion level).

Other things, like Spain's problem with the Basque region (which includes the southern tip of France) is ignored by most Europeans b/c it isn't their country to worry about. Same thing with Serbia. The fact is, there is no mindset of unity, and high unemployment persists, especially in Eastern Europe & SPain, France, etc. Non-integration of immigrants, muslim radicals within their borders (in large numbers) etc.; the EU has a host of problems to deal with. THEN you can talk about it matching the US. Sure, the US economy has taken a down turn in recent years, and with a 35% chance of recession in 2008, things aren't looking up any time soon. Still, the chance for improvement is their, as capitalism is always chancing. I do not disregard the US's own problems: huge debt, oil dependence (same for Europe too!), wars in the Middle East, etc etc. However, the US went through and won the two biggest wars in Human history, and faced off against another superpower for 50 years in duels all over the earth. No, it will take a while, unless, like I said before, the US takes a nose-dive, before another superpower comes to being. That said, China is the most likely candidate, w/ its massive population. ANd the events of 1989 highlight an advancement to democracy which will appear in the near future, hopefully.

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muppet1010

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#49 muppet1010
Member since 2006 • 5812 Posts

the US went through and won the two biggest wars in Human history,

peter1191

you heard him people... the US single handedly won world wars 1 and 2 one or two other countries were involved but its not as if they played a big role :roll:

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peter1191

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#50 peter1191
Member since 2005 • 591 Posts

muppet1010, did I say that? Huh? Maybe I should elaborate for people of your intellectual level: the US was on the winning side of both world wars, as an integral player in both, and physically was almost unaffected by both wars, Hence, it "WON" both wars, and came out stronger than ever. There you go