Why would a completely privatized market fail?

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ZumaJones07

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#1 ZumaJones07
Member since 2005 • 16457 Posts
I really don't know and I would like to be told why. :) The government should only handle contract enforcement, fraud, defense and police, and the court system. Should there be government regulations that are imposed from a top-down perspective? Lets say I own a business and build a building, why do I have to build my doors so that they swing outward instead of in as a means to make the building safer? Another example, why should there be a regulation on how much pollutant I pour into a river? Is there a common thought that corporations are evil and will always find shortcuts that may jeopardize your safety? Don't all these regulations hinder businesses from performing the way they want to perform? Does the government have a right to say, "you don't know what you're doing so we made these laws so that we can protect everyone? Why wouldn't a business do that on their own? My belief is that, yes, a private market would eventually fix all problems and we do not need knee-jerk responses to accidents.
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Communist_Soul

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#2 Communist_Soul
Member since 2009 • 3080 Posts

I personally think public opinion would become the new regulatory force. Not to mention people suing the companies using short cuts that harm health. Then we have an issue of monopolies be a lot harder to start businesses and heightened prices

So yes a completely privatized would succeed.

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savebattery

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#3 savebattery
Member since 2009 • 3626 Posts
I firmly believe that the less government is involved with something, the more efficient it becomes.
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EsYuGee

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#4 EsYuGee
Member since 2007 • 466 Posts

Why do we have these regulations in the first place? Would the US ( or the world) be a better place if we had regulation from the 19th century?

Corporations are there to make money. Bottom line. If that mean more mercury in your food because it was easier to dump it than to dispose of it properly then so be it. Don't worry the public won't find out because the big companies can just pay off or buy the media.

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branketra

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#5 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

Another example, why should there be a regulation on how much pollutant I pour into a river? Is there a common thought that corporations are evil and will always find shortcuts that may jeopardize your safety? Don't all these regulations hinder businesses from performing the way they want to perform? Does the government have a right to say, "you don't know what you're doing so we made these laws so that we can protect everyone? Why wouldn't a business do that on their own? My belief is that, yes, a private market would eventually fix all problems and we do not need knee-jerk responses to accidents.ZumaJones07
Have you ever heard of Erin Brockovich? There's a movie about her that shows her finding out that a private company did the very thing you're saying wouldn't happen. It would be great if everyone looked out for one another, but that doesn't happen very much.

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cybrcatter

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#6 cybrcatter
Member since 2003 • 16210 Posts

Sure, that could work

.. if externalities, public goods, or monopolies never occurred.

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SaudiFury

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#7 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts

unrestrained greed.

considering the heights of power, and influence companies can have on a country. A company failing can be catastrophic it in more ways then just simply shareholders.

I mean a lot of companies have more profit then some countries have in their treasuries.

unrestrained greed combined with scale changes thing.

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CaveJohnson1

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#8 CaveJohnson1
Member since 2011 • 1714 Posts

Cause the government is needed for certain things like building codes and creating laws against products that can hurt people....

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Twoyen

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#9 Twoyen
Member since 2011 • 31 Posts
Well for starters, eventually, a few mega-conglomerates would control all industry. Now imagine an economy full of monopolies, no competition = fall of capitalism. Corporations would bleed all citizens dry.
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SaudiFury

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#10 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts

Cause the government is needed for certain things like building codes and creating laws against products that can hurt people....

CaveJohnson1
lol... i still get a kick out of that. from your comments on the other thread about libertarian islands. "certain things like building codes" :lol:
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Saturos3091

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#12 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

The less regulation is generally better. You have to draw the line when companies put lead in their toothpaste (I'm looking at you China) - but otherwise most of the regulations and rules are just hindrances to the economy.

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brandontwb

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#13 brandontwb
Member since 2008 • 4325 Posts
I would say that it's dependant on the people. It could work sometimes, and sometimes not work. I think most of the time it wouldn't work out though, it's better to have rules and regulations to follow for the common good.
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ZumaJones07

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#15 ZumaJones07
Member since 2005 • 16457 Posts
it's better to have rules and regulations to follow for the common good.brandontwb
But is it right for someone else to tell you how to run your business? Sure it makes sense to impose rules that stretch across the map, but all you're doing is saying that I don't know how to run my business. For instance, I don't want to pay for smoke detectors or exit signs in my building, but I would be forced to have them even if I do not need them. I think that common sense would work more effectively. If the guy I'm working for isn't treating me right or not paying me enough, then I leave and find a better company and the place I leave eventually dissolves because there is no benefit to working there. Without regulation, I think competition would weed out the evil corporations.
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brandontwb

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#16 brandontwb
Member since 2008 • 4325 Posts
[QUOTE="brandontwb"]it's better to have rules and regulations to follow for the common good.ZumaJones07
But is it right for someone else to tell you how to run your business? Sure it makes sense to impose rules that stretch across the map, but all you're doing is saying that I don't know how to run my business. For instance, I don't want to pay for smoke detectors or exit signs in my building, but I would be forced to have them even if I do not need them. I think that common sense would work more effectively. If the guy I'm working for isn't treating me right or not paying me enough, then I leave and find a better company and the place I leave eventually dissolves because there is no benefit to working there. Without regulation, I think competition would weed out the evil corporations.

I think it's much too complicated to even assume what might happen... there are too many variables to consider and you can't oversimplify it. If you want a lack of regulations you should look to 3rd world countries and see how they're doing.
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DroidPhysX

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#17 DroidPhysX
Member since 2010 • 17098 Posts

Companies would just regulate themselves.

[spoiler] No [/spoiler]

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chessmaster1989

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#18 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
Well among various other problems, Coase theorem doesn't really hold in practice...
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#19 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

The market is not as free as people would like. There are often barriers to entry for many companies and products. Plus, consumer health and safety need to be regulated. We can not rely on the altruism of corporations to safeguard people's safety.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#20 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

Sure, that could work

.. if externalities, public goods, or monopolies never occurred.

cybrcatter
You shut up :x Ron Paul will lead us into a glorious new world!
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BrianB0422

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#21 BrianB0422
Member since 2009 • 1636 Posts
It would work for a very select few and leave everyone else fighting over the scraps. You can never trust a corporation. They have to be forced into everything.
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KC_Hokie

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#22 KC_Hokie
Member since 2006 • 16099 Posts
Succeed. Less government the better.
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CRS98

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#23 CRS98
Member since 2004 • 9036 Posts
Needs more workers' control of production.
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UniverseIX

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#24 UniverseIX
Member since 2011 • 989 Posts

Another example, why should there be a regulation on how much pollutant I poor into a river?

topiccreator

why should one person, or business by allowed to contiminate water supplies? They aren't the only people who use water.

business regulations have merit behind them and aren't being imposed on business owners in an attempt to annoy the business owners

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Engrish_Major

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#25 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
Everytime a government regulation is enacted, God kills 8 kittens. It's true. Look it up. RON PAUL!!!1
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Grodus5

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#26 Grodus5
Member since 2006 • 7934 Posts

Everyone go watch Food Inc. And that documentary is WITH government regulation. Imagine how it would be without any regulation?

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donalbane

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#27 donalbane
Member since 2003 • 16383 Posts

Because not everything can be run for profit. If you doubt this, imagine a world without the police, fire department, libraries, interstate highway system, etc. etc. .

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#28 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

Because not everything can be run for profit. If you doubt this, imagine a world without the police, fire department, libraries, interstate highway system, etc. etc. .

donalbane
No we should privatize fire fighting!
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horgen

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#29 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127733 Posts
Ah yes, let the business pollute the water and air as much as they would like. That's totally a good thing right? :P
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donalbane

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#30 donalbane
Member since 2003 • 16383 Posts
[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="donalbane"]

Because not everything can be run for profit. If you doubt this, imagine a world without the police, fire department, libraries, interstate highway system, etc. etc. .

No we should privatize fire fighting!

Yeah, then the poor people could just die horribly when they couldn't afford to pay for the help. Honestly, the whole 'rising tides' argument is always seen in reverse... the more we help the poor, the better the society. The more we help the rich,.. well, just look outside and I think you'lll see what I mean. We're on the brink of collapse, man.
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BrianB0422

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#31 BrianB0422
Member since 2009 • 1636 Posts

[QUOTE="donalbane"]

Because not everything can be run for profit. If you doubt this, imagine a world without the police, fire department, libraries, interstate highway system, etc. etc. .

xaos

No we should privatize fire fighting!

Hey. It happened.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#32 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
I'm struggling for a good way to articulate the dramatic irony of the fact that so many people online are using a medium developed by a government agency for non-commercial purposes to express their dissatisfaction with government agencies, and how market forces could totally fill any gaps left by public services.
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kuraimen

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#33 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
Because the prime objective of the private enterprise is to make money. So the health private industry has an interest to keep you sick, the insurance private industry has an interest to see more accidents, the security private industry has an interest for there to be crime, etc etc.
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branketra

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#34 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

Hey. It happened.

BrianB0422

I remember this. I can also recall numerous calls from the local police force back in TN. It was a message that sounded like a pseudo-invoice. They didn't ask, nor was it called a donation.
I'm struggling for a good way to articulate the dramatic irony of the fact that so many people online are using a medium developed by a government agency for non-commercial purposes to express their dissatisfaction with government agencies, and how market forces could totally fill any gaps left by public services.xaos
Don't bite the hand the feeds you?

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markop2003

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#35 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts
Health and safety would probably be an issue, you'ld still get safe properties however you'ld probably pay a larger premium for them than you do now as they'ld be seen as luxury properties not the norm. Environmental issues would be a mess, technically you could still get clean areas as the company owning the land could sue others for polluting it however environmental cases have a bit of a history of going on for years and just being a money sink, most of the time you wouldn't get any real results. It wouldn't 'fail' except in extreme circumstances, though it would fall hard if it did fail, however it probably wouldn't be optimum.
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OrkHammer007

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#36 OrkHammer007
Member since 2006 • 4753 Posts

We can never really know, because government is so far into every aspect of business and personal life that the chance to actually see if it would work is long past.

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markop2003

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#37 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="donalbane"]

Because not everything can be run for profit. If you doubt this, imagine a world without the police, fire department, libraries, interstate highway system, etc. etc. .

BrianB0422

No we should privatize fire fighting!

Hey. It happened.

I don't really have a problem with that, it really is just like insurance in that case. The reason the fire service is public though is because that a private system dosn't work in urban environments where if one house is on fire then the next will catch fire too and there's a huge mess if dealing with a high rise or multiple tenant property.
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BrianB0422

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#38 BrianB0422
Member since 2009 • 1636 Posts
[QUOTE="markop2003"][QUOTE="BrianB0422"]

No we should privatize fire fighting!xaos

Hey. It happened.

I don't really have a problem with that, it really is just like insurance in that case. The reason the fire service is public though is because that a private system dosn't work in urban environments where if one house is on fire then the next will catch fire too and there's a huge mess if dealing with a high rise or multiple tenant property.

I hope your house catches on fire and you forgot to pay your "fee". Disgusting...
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markop2003

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#39 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts

libraries

donalbane
There are some very big members only libraries around.Ebooks have allowed more to pop up recently ie safari. Lots of free collections around too. Also what about private uni libraries?
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Ingenemployee

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#40 Ingenemployee
Member since 2007 • 2307 Posts

Im guessing it would end up being like the businesses in the early 20th century USA, it would suck hard for anyone who was not rich.

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markop2003

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#41 markop2003
Member since 2005 • 29917 Posts
[QUOTE="BrianB0422"] I hope your house catches on fire and you forgot to pay your "fee". Disgusting...

Eh? Your car won't be protected if you don't pay its insurance, your house won't be covered if you don't pay house insurance ect, i fail to see how this is any different
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BrianB0422

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#42 BrianB0422
Member since 2009 • 1636 Posts
[QUOTE="BrianB0422"] I hope your house catches on fire and you forgot to pay your "fee". Disgusting...markop2003
Eh? Your car won't be protected if you don't pay its insurance, your house won't be covered if you don't pay house insurance ect, i fail to see how this is any different

Because certain things should just be covered. It blows my mind how completely backwards America is sometimes. You are mentally bankrupt.
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bbkkristian

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#43 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts
I firmly believe that the less government is involved with something, the more efficient it becomes.savebattery
I second this statement.
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cybrcatter

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#44 cybrcatter
Member since 2003 • 16210 Posts
[QUOTE="savebattery"]I firmly believe that the less government is involved with something, the more efficient it becomes.bbkkristian
I second this statement.

Enron likes this.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#45 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
[QUOTE="bbkkristian"][QUOTE="savebattery"]I firmly believe that the less government is involved with something, the more efficient it becomes.cybrcatter
I second this statement.

Enron likes this.

Well they were...
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CaveJohnson1

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#46 CaveJohnson1
Member since 2011 • 1714 Posts

[QUOTE="BrianB0422"] I hope your house catches on fire and you forgot to pay your "fee". Disgusting...markop2003
Eh? Your car won't be protected if you don't pay its insurance, your house won't be covered if you don't pay house insurance ect, i fail to see how this is any different

Half the country wouldn't be able to afford fire or police insurance....that would have good results.

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CaveJohnson1

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#47 CaveJohnson1
Member since 2011 • 1714 Posts

[QUOTE="cybrcatter"][QUOTE="bbkkristian"] I second this statement.xaos
Enron likes this.

Well they were...

I think anybody who thinks that people in power would act benevolent in a market without rules are ignorant to the point where they would never be able to see themselves as such. I think it's scary that people are that stupid period, look at all the business scandals we see when there are laws, imagine if there was nothing and nobody trying to stop them. 1000 Enrons at once, gez, people need to use common sense.

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CaveJohnson1

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#48 CaveJohnson1
Member since 2011 • 1714 Posts

Succeed. Less government the better.KC_Hokie
Yeah, let's make things like this legal.

I usually understand where conservatives are coming from, even if I don't agree, but this kind of thinking is deluded at best.

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SUD123456

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#49 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 7059 Posts

In theory all markets are self correcting.

The problem with theory is that it leaps to the end conclusion and omits everything in-between.

Hooray for markets self correcting in the long term.

Double hooray for the unbelievable pain and suffering that society has to go through before the corrections occur.

I am sure you will feel comforted that when your family dies from lack of environmental regulation you will at least be proud that they will be part of the dead poster children that eventually leads to market self correction.

I'd also like to see you pay 80% of your wages to the electricity company. But don't worry, when someone builds a new powerplant in the next couple of years you will eventually have lights and whatnot again.

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weezyfb

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#50 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
You think big business can have us over a barrel and not f*** us? I'd rather not test it out