Yes everyone... another religious thread. but read it anyway! :)

So I was sorta bored and was looking at some religion threads, and decided to kill some time and make this. I'm actually not gona read all your comments this time sorry, and i respect your opinions and understand if you disagree with something here. You can write a thread about that too. :) so yah.. here goes.

The soul, and the next world:

Although undetectable by physical instruments, the soul shows itself through the qualities of character that we associate with each person. The soul is the focal point for love and compassion, for faith and courage, and for other such "human" qualities that cannot be explained solely by thinking of a human being as an animal or as a sophisticated organic machine.

The soul does not die; it endures everlastingly. When the human body dies, the soul is freed from ties with the physical body and the surrounding physical world and begins its progress through the spiritual world. It is understanded that the spiritual world to be a timeless and placeless extension of our own universe--and not some physically remote or removed place.

Entry into the next life has the potential to bring great joy. Some liken death to the process of birth. The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother."

In the final analysis, heaven can be seen partly as a state of nearness to God; hell is a state of remoteness from God. Each state follows as a natural consequence of individual efforts, or the lack thereof, to develop spiritually. The key to spiritual progress is to follow the path outlined by the Manifestations of God.

Thus, "Hell" isn't a physical place with fire and darkness; it is a metaphor or analogy. Don't think of it like if you're a bad person you'll go to "Hell"... and burn on a spinning table and the "Devil" (also a metaphor) will be laughing... when one looks at it like that, it seems very displeasing and superficial. When the bible had these things written, we can analyze and understand it to be more than it seems. And don't forget that Christ himself didn't write everything in the Bible. I myself am not Christian, but believe in all religions and see them as stairs; you have to walk up each one to get to the top safely.

Although undetectable by physical instruments, the soul shows itself through the qualities of character that we associate with each person. The soul is the focal point for love and compassion, for faith and courage, and for other such "human" qualities that cannot be explained solely by thinking of a human being as an animal or as a sophisticated organic machine.

The soul does not die; it endures everlastingly. When the human body dies, the soul is freed from ties with the physical body and the surrounding physical world and begins its progress through the spiritual world. It is understanded that the spiritual world to be a timeless and placeless extension of our own universe--and not some physically remote or removed place.

Entry into the next life has the potential to bring great joy. Some liken death to the process of birth. The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother."

In the final analysis, heaven can be seen partly as a state of nearness to God; hell is a state of remoteness from God. Each state follows as a natural consequence of individual efforts, or the lack thereof, to develop spiritually. The key to spiritual progress is to follow the path outlined by the Manifestations of God.

Thus, "Hell" isn't a physical place with fire and darkness; it is a metaphor or analogy. Don't think of it like if you're a bad person you'll go to "Hell"... and burn on a spinning table and the "Devil" (also a metaphor) will be laughing... when one looks at it like that, it seems very displeasing and superficial. When the bible had these things written, we can analyze and understand it to be more than it seems. And don't forget that Christ himself didn't write everything in the Bible. I myself am not Christian, but believe in all religions and see them as stairs; you have to walk up each one to get to the top safely.

amirbrandon

*Lots of words.*

amirbrandon

I don't follow. People should stop worrying about the afterlife and worry more about improving the world we've got now. We've no idea if there is an afterlife, but it's certain that this Earth exists.

[QUOTE="amirbrandon"]

*Lots of words.*

RadBooley

I don't follow. People should stop worrying about the afterlife and worry more about improving the world we've got now. We've no idea if there is an afterlife, but it's certain that this Earth exists.

True, but if there is an afterlife, we'll be there considerably longer than we'll be here, and I'd like to have a nice stay over there.

[QUOTE="amirbrandon"]

*Lots of words.*

I don't follow. People should stop worrying about the afterlife and worry more about improving the world we've got now. We've no idea if there is an afterlife, but it's certain that this Earth exists.

True, but if there is an afterlife, we'll be there considerably longer than we'll be here, and I'd like to have a nice stay over there.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="RadBooley"]

I don't follow. People should stop worrying about the afterlife and worry more about improving the world we've got now. We've no idea if there is an afterlife, but it's certain that this Earth exists.

3-Legged_Man

True, but if there is an afterlife, we'll be there considerably longer than we'll be here, and I'd like to have a nice stay over there.

That's what I've always believed. I figure that even if one doesn't believe in a god (and there ultimately turns out to be one), he probably would value one's services to humanity more than one's religious beliefs.

...and if he doesn't... well, that's not a god I'd be interested in worshipping anyway. Perhaps I'd be better off in hell.

Don't you think that as long as you try to make this life as good as possible, your next life will be good too? Isn't it all connected? (Not that there's an afterlife, but just sayin)3-Legged_Man

That entirely depends on how they are connected.

[QUOTE="RadBooley"]

[QUOTE="amirbrandon"]

*Lots of words.*

Theokhoth

I don't follow. People should stop worrying about the afterlife and worry more about improving the world we've got now. We've no idea if there is an afterlife, but it's certain that this Earth exists.

True, but if there is an afterlife, we'll be there considerably longer than we'll be here, and I'd like to have a nice stay over there.

True, but if there is an afterlife, we'll be there considerably longer than we'll be here, and I'd like to have a nice stay over there.

Theokhoth

Personally, I've found that the stuff that most religions say will get you a good afterlife is the stuff that makes this life the best, anyways.

[QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"] Don't you think that as long as you try to make this life as good as possible, your next life will be good too? Isn't it all connected? (Not that there's an afterlife, but just sayin)Theokhoth

That entirely depends on how they are connected.

If? Not a ringing endorsement. Hedging bets perhaps? Pascal's wager?LJS9502_basic

If.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"] Don't you think that as long as you try to make this life as good as possible, your next life will be good too? Isn't it all connected? (Not that there's an afterlife, but just sayin)3-Legged_Man

That entirely depends on how they are connected.

That's a possibility. Another possibility is that our actions here mean diddly squat to the afterlife and what determines our cozy-ness there has absolutely nothing to do with what we do here. Perhaps doing good here makes things worse for us over there; after all, what if "their" idea of good is different from ours, sort of like walking into a completely new culture. And then there's the chance that it is our inner qualities rather than or in favor of our exterior works that make things cozy there.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

If? Not a ringing endorsement. Hedging bets perhaps? Pascal's wager?Theokhoth

If.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

True, but if there is an afterlife, we'll be there considerably longer than we'll be here, and I'd like to have a nice stay over there.

GabuEx

Personally, I've found that the stuff that most religions say will get you a good afterlife is the stuff that makes this life the best, anyways.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

If? Not a ringing endorsement. Hedging bets perhaps? Pascal's wager?LJS9502_basic

If.

I can't keep open the possibility that I've mistakenly based my entire life around something?

Eh, it's good you're still here anyway. You can help me pick the best wine for that kind of occasion. :D

[QUOTE="GabuEx"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

True, but if there is an afterlife, we'll be there considerably longer than we'll be here, and I'd like to have a nice stay over there.

domatron23

Personally, I've found that the stuff that most religions say will get you a good afterlife is the stuff that makes this life the best, anyways.

Makes you wonder why so many people think it the worst thing to happen to humanity and should be gotten rid of.

What an amazing coincidence that religion is so intertwined with social cohesion.domatron23

Hey, I ain't gonna knock what works.

Makes you wonder why so many people think it the worst thing to happen to humanity and should be gotten rid of.Theokhoth

I think that just about all people who think that the Bible is the worst thing ever have never seriously read it (i.e., have never read it beyond cherry-picking verses that they don't like).

I can't keep open the possibility that I've mistakenly based my entire life around something?

Eh, it's good you're still here anyway. You can help me pick the best wine for that kind of occasion. :D

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I can't keep open the possibility that I've mistakenly based my entire life around something?

Eh, it's good you're still here anyway. You can help me pick the best wine for that kind of occasion. :D

LJS9502_basic

No, I think I'm right. . . .but I've been wrong on what I've thought I've been right on many, many times before.

Now, about that wine. . .

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I can't keep open the possibility that I've mistakenly based my entire life around something?

Eh, it's good you're still here anyway. You can help me pick the best wine for that kind of occasion. :D

Theokhoth

No, I think I'm right. . . .but I've been wrong on what I've thought I've been right on many, many times before.

Now, about that wine. . .

As for the wine...I'll probably outlast you here so I'll do the drinking. Tonight I'm having a Rioja. Pleasant full bodied wine...quite robust actually.

No. If there is any question about the afterlife then one would fall more into the agnostic category.

LJS9502_basic

That would make any given person fall into one of two groups of people: agnostics, or liars.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Sure you can...but that makes you more an agnostic.LJS9502_basic

No, I think I'm right. . . .but I've been wrong on what I've thought I've been right on many, many times before.

Now, about that wine. . .

As for the wine...I'll probably outlast you here so I'll do the drinking. Tonight I'm having a Rioja. Pleasant full bodied wine...quite robust actually.

Then we're all agnostic. Cool. Maybe now we can get those ECREE upstarts to shut up.:D

I'll hold you to that. . .

That's a possibility. Another possibility is that our actions here mean diddly squat to the afterlife and what determines our cozy-ness there has absolutely nothing to do with what we do here.Theokhoth

Perhaps doing good here makes things worse for us over there; after all, what if "their" idea of good is different from ours, sort of like walking into a completely new culture. Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Sure you can...but that makes you more an agnostic.LJS9502_basic

No, I think I'm right. . . .but I've been wrong on what I've thought I've been right on many, many times before.

Now, about that wine. . .

As for the wine...I'll probably outlast you here so I'll do the drinking. Tonight I'm having a Rioja. Pleasant full bodied wine...quite robust actually.

Then why would we even be here? As long as we do the best with what we have, how could it be held against us?3-Legged_Man

Why would we be here? Who the hell knows? Perhaps there's no reason at all for it.

Best with what we have? How in the world would our best stand up against eternity? In any case, I personally believe actions make a difference--but are not the deciding factor in what goes on in the afterlife.

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Personally, I've found that the stuff that most religions say will get you a good afterlife is the stuff that makes this life the best, anyways.

Theokhoth

Makes you wonder why so many people think it the worst thing to happen to humanity and should be gotten rid of.

Just for fun here is a big list of quotes from religious texts (and some secular sources) which exemplify the universal ethic of reciprocity

• Bahá'í Faith:
  • "Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah
  • "And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." Epistle to the Son of the Wolf
• Brahmanism: "This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "
• Buddhism:
  • "...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
  • Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18
• Christianity:
  • "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.
  • "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.
  • "...and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas 6. The Gospel of Thomas is one of about 40 gospels that were widely accepted among early Christians, but which never made it into the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).
• Confucianism:
  • "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23
  • "Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3
  • "Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4
• Ancient Egyptian:
  • "Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and may be the earliest version ever written. 3
• Hinduism:
  • This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. Mahabharata 5:1517
• Humanism:
  • "(5) Humanists acknowledge human interdependence, the need for mutual respect and the kinship of all humanity."
  • "(11) Humanists affirm that individual and social problems can only be resolved by means of human reason, intelligent effort, critical thinking joined with compassion and a spirit of empathy for all living beings. " 4
  • "Don't do things you wouldn't want to have done to you, British Humanist Society. 3
• Islam: "None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 5
• Jainism:
  • "Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.
  • "In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara
  • "A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.33
• Judaism:
  • "...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Leviticus 19:18
  • "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.
  • "And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15 6
• Native American Spirituality:
  • "Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace.
  • "All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk
  • "Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself." Pima proverb.
• Roman Pagan Religion: "The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."
• Shinto:
  • "The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form"
  • "Be charitable to all beings, love is the representative of God." Ko-ji-ki Hachiman Kasuga
• Sikhism:
  • Compassion-mercy and religion are the support of the entire world". Japji Sahib
  • "Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within everyone." Guru Arjan Devji 259
  • "No one is my enemy, none a stranger and everyone is my friend." Guru Arjan Dev : AG 1299
• Sufism: "The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this." Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order.
• Taoism:
  • "Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien.
  • "The sage has no interest of his own, but takes the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind; he is also kind to the unkind: for Virtue is kind. He is faithful to the faithful; he is also faithful to the unfaithful: for Virtue is faithful." Tao Teh Ching, Chapter 49
• Unitarian:

"The inherent worth and dignity of every person;"
"Justice, equity and compassion in human relations.... "
"The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;"
"We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part." Unitarian principles. 7,8

• Wicca: "An it harm no one, do what thou wilt" (i.e. do what ever you will, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself). One's will is to be carefully thought out in advance of action. This is called the Wiccan Rede
• Yoruba: (Nigeria): "One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."
• Zoroastrianism:
  • "That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself". Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5
  • "Whatever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others." Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29

You think life is a competiton don't you? :lol:3-Legged_Man

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="domatron23"] What an amazing coincidence that religion is so intertwined with social cohesion.domatron23

Makes you wonder why so many people think it the worst thing to happen to humanity and should be gotten rid of.

Just for fun here is a big list of quotes from religious texts (and some secular sources) which exemplify the universal ethic of reciprocity

You should totally look up Lewis' Abolition of Man.

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Makes you wonder why so many people think it the worst thing to happen to humanity and should be gotten rid of.

Theokhoth

Just for fun here is a big list of quotes from religious texts (and some secular sources) which exemplify the universal ethic of reciprocity

You should totally look up Lewis' Abolition of Man.

Best with what we have? How in the world would our best stand up against eternity? Theokhoth

I've still got to read "Mere Christianity" from when Silver_Dragon/Dracargen recommended it to me two years ago.domatron23

[QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"] You think life is a competiton don't you? :lol:LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"] You think life is a competiton don't you? :lol:3-Legged_Man

I think that just about all people who think that the Bible is the worst thing ever have never seriously read it (i.e., have never read it beyond cherry-picking verses that they don't like).GabuEx

[QUOTE="domatron23"]What an amazing coincidence that religion is so intertwined with social cohesion.Theokhoth

Makes you wonder why so many people think it the worst thing to happen to humanity and should be gotten rid of.

There are some seriously....

*Tries to think of a pleasant way to put this*

..antiquated views on social codes in the Old Testament. Not all of it is bad though. Even if you don't believe in Christianity as a faith, it is definitly a good read for the alegories.Vandalvideo

Oh, I know. But those don't make up the foundations of Christianity. Christianity in its purest form can be summarized in one sentence delivered by Jesus: "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."

I've still got to read "Mere Christianity" from when Silver_Dragon/Dracargen recommended it to me two years ago.domatron23

You mean to tell me you've never read that? For shame.:x

By the way, the Gospel of Thomas was a Gnostic gospel, meaning it sure as all hell was not accepted by Early Christians; Gnosticism is a heresy even today.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"] You think life is a competiton don't you? :lol:3-Legged_Man

I thought that was LJS' alt account?

[QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Considering you don't know what I was referring to...why make a judgement. And what was your old account? This cannot be your first of that I am sure.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="domatron23"]I've still got to read "Mere Christianity" from when Silver_Dragon/Dracargen recommended it to me two years ago.3-Legged_Man

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Best with what we have? How in the world would our best stand up against eternity? 3-Legged_Man

If the eternal has eternal standards, then their understanding wouldn't amount to much.

[QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Considering you don't know what I was referring to...why make a judgement. And what was your old account? This cannot be your first of that I am sure.Theokhoth

I thought that was LJS' alt account?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"] My other account is LJSEXAY.3-Legged_Man

"I'm here to play a game with you. . ."

[QUOTE="3-Legged_Man"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I've still got to read "Mere Christianity" from when Silver_Dragon/Dracargen recommended it to me two years ago.domatron23