A good one to revisit

I know I am going to sound like the master of the obvious, but...

Halflife 2 episode 1 and 2 is STILL one of the best games out there :)

After building my new Rig I burned through Bioshock, Crisis, and Assassins Creed. I am going to pick up World in Conflict and COD4 VERY soon, but in the meantime I wondered how HL2 would perform with my new setup.

Holy **** What a great game to play again! I'm already sucked into it :)

How could anyone NOT own the Orange box?

I do, and I think it's boring as hell. Well, that's just my opinion.vash47

you must not play TF2

I know I am going to sound like the master of the obvious, but...

Halflife 2 episode 1 and 2 is STILL one of the best games out there :)

After building my new Rig I burned through Bioshock, Crisis, and Assassins Creed. I am going to pick up World in Conflict and COD4 VERY soon, but in the meantime I wondered how HL2 would perform with my new setup.

Holy **** What a great game to play again! I'm already sucked into it :)

How could anyone NOT own the Orange box?

psilocybn

Believe it or not I don't own the Orange Box. Alright I said it. go on bashing about me being an exile

[QUOTE="vash47"]I do, and I think it's boring as hell. Well, that's just my opinion.krazyorange

you must not play TF2

Yes, I don't like MP, and even the times I joined a MP game, my ping was about 250ms.

I hate my bandwidth.

I hate the Episodes. I think they're both junk.

There's far, far too much of a focus on gunplay (Half Life 2's weakest area), the shifting scenario focus that made HL2 so great has been greatly diminished and all (and, besides White Forest, I mean all) of the set pieces are just recycled versions of those seen in Half Life 2.

The only thing the Episodes do genuinely well is storytelling, which has been improved on HL2's.

Seriously, if the Episodes are meant to serve as Half Life 3 then we have been royally shafted.

[QUOTE="krazyorange"]

[QUOTE="vash47"]I do, and I think it's boring as hell. Well, that's just my opinion.vash47

you must not play TF2

Yes, I don't like MP, and even the times I joined a MP game, my ping was about 250ms.

I hate my bandwidth.

Well there's your problem!!

A better "one" to revisit is the original Half Life series. And I don't like TF2 either. All the weapons are terrible and not fun. And yes I have played it a lot and have played all the various roles. They all suck.

There's far, far too much of a focus on gunplay (Half Life 2's weakest area), the shifting scenario focus that made HL2 so great has been greatly diminished and all (and, besides White Forest, I mean all) of the set pieces are just recycled versions of those seen in Half Life 2.

fatshodan

ok, everything you said applies to the first episode (except for the focus on gunplay, which isn't true - after all, you don't even get any of the bigger guns until half way through - and that elevator level is incredibly well done), but this in no way describes episode 2. shifting scenario focus is what episode 2 is all about!

exploring a cave and squishing grubs; to

out in the open and fighting 2 antlion guardians with only a safety zone to protect you; to

driving around and eluding a helicopter and traps set by the combine and running away from hunters and racing dog; to

trapped in a confined space (that's really well designed), fighting off hunters; to

stopping an invasion of striders with the strider busters and running down hunters? that's shifting scenario focus.

and gunplay is not the focus of episode 2. half the times, you're forced to use the gravity gun.

and there's no way they recycled the set pieces for episode 2. the cave? the white forest? the white forest lab (which reminded me a lot of half-life, not half-life 2; i mean the going up and down ladders in a cylindrically-shaped space, defending the space from intruders (combine in episode 2, marines in half-life), and then launching the rocket - that's half-life, not hl2)?

episode 2, imo, is the culmination of all that valve does well packed into 5 hours of greatness and then some. and that last battle is just epic.

exploring a cave and squishing grubs; to fireandcloud

I have to say, this is one of the reasons I dislike Ep2 so much. The cave area accounted for nearly a full quarter of the Episode, and what was it? It was just running through a narrow-as-hell corridor, occasionally shooting a few bugs and solving a ton of tedious and simple physics puzzles that were good in HL2 only because they were new and unique, but I feel they have no place in HL any more.

out in the open and fighting 2 antlion guardians with only a safety zone to protect you; to

driving around and eluding a helicopter and traps set by the combine and running away from hunters and racing dog; to

trapped in a confined space (that's really well designed), fighting off hunters; to

stopping an invasion of striders with the strider busters and running down hunters? that's shifting scenario focus.

and gunplay is not the focus of episode 2. half the times, you're forced to use the gravity gun.fireandcloud

Gunplay features prominently in all of your examples. Now, I know, it is a first person shooter, so maybe that's not such a big surprise. But in HL2, you were always doing something completely different each time you turned a corner - and while gunplay was always in there, everything else changed very radically.

I don't see the episodes as shifting scenario as much as shifting location. You're still just fighting enemies in a pretty standard way. In HL2, the entire tone of the game changed with each new area. From the 1984-style intro to the airboat to a game version of the movie Tremors to creeping through a ghost town to squashing enemies with an industrial crane to leading a team of insectoids on a prison raid to crazy firefights with human companions. Every area was utterly, utterly unique - not just in location, but in tone.

Compared with HL2, I think both the episodes are very samey, very bland and almost everything in both of them has been done before.

and there's no way they recycled the set pieces for episode 2. the cave?fireandcloud

Which set piece are you talking about, here? Killing Antlions with turrets? Happened in HL2, only they weren't Antlions, they were those flying buzzsaws.

the white forest?fireandcloud

i mean the going up and down ladders in a cylindrically-shaped space, defending the space from intrudersfireandcloud

I don't even remember this particular part, so I don't really know what to say. If I don't remember it, I doubt it impressed me too much.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think the Episodes are both good, but I don't think either one of them is great. I think HL2 is a masterpiece without equal, but if I wanted to play it all over again, I would. I don't need this poor man's remake to remind me how great a game it is.

That said, I have only played each episode once and you have brought it to my attention that I don't remember parts of them, so perhaps I should replay them.

Did someone say Tremors? :D I love the remake on HD-DVD. Fun, simple and great movie, none of that fancy shmancy CG-BS you see in films nowadays.

As for episodes. Well, I can't say I enjoyed Ep 1 all that much. Pretty much six more hrs of HL2 with absolutely nothing to add to the franchise other than story development and Alyx going all goe eyes (like Fireandcloud put it one time) on you.

Ep 2 is great though. I actually think it's better than HL 2 in places, especially at the end. Epic battle, loved it.

All in all I have to say that I agree with Fire. The episodes are great additions to the franchise, well, at least the second one is, but I also strongly agree with this sentence:

Seriously, if the Episodes are meant to serve as Half Life 3 then we have been royally shafted.

I have to say, this is one of the reasons I dislike Ep2 so much. The cave area accounted for nearly a full quarter of the Episode, and what was it? It was just running through a narrow-as-hell corridor, occasionally shooting a few bugs and solving a ton of tedious and simple physics puzzles that were good in HL2 only because they were new and unique, but I feel they have no place in HL any more.fatshodan

i don't disagree with you there. i did think the caves were the weakest part. and i never actually liked the physics puzzles (even in hl2), because (like you wrote) they were too simple. but there were some nice things about the caves.

for one thing, the cave was very well designed. it was designed with the antlions in mind. it had high ceilings, the ground wasn't flat but had varying levels of elevation, and there were huge gaps with the floor weaving around them so you couldn't get from one spot to another by cutting corners - it's the ultimate home field advantage for the antlions. the varying levels of elevation allowed for the antlions to, essentially, find cover. they'd spit at you, retreat beyond the horizon, pop out again and spit at you again, fly off to the other side of the space, spit at you, go behind a column, etc. it was fun fighting them at times, cuz you could tell that the cave was specifically designed for them and it was great to see them use it to their advantage.

and it was pretty.

and it had a great end battle, just before you went up the elevator with the vorti, against the zombies and antlions (with them fighting each other to boot (which was featured before but never did it feel like there were 3 sides fighting each other like it did in that battle). and that elevator ride, looking down at them fighting, with the occasional antlion flying up to take a last shot at you, was just beautiful to look at.

but yeah, the rest of the cave wasn't that good. and i definitely didn't like the turret level.

Gunplay features prominently in all of your examples. Now, I know, it is a first person shooter, so maybe that's not such a big surprise. But in HL2, you were always doing something completely different each time you turned a corner - and while gunplay was always in there, everything else changed very radically.

I don't see the episodes as shifting scenario as much as shifting location. You're still just fighting enemies in a pretty standard way. In HL2, the entire tone of the game changed with each new area. From the 1984-****intro to the airboat to a game version of the movie Tremors to creeping through a ghost town to squashing enemies with an industrial crane to leading a team of insectoids on a prison raid to crazy firefights with human companions. Every area was utterly, utterly unique - not just in location, but in tone.

Compared with HL2, I think both the episodes are very samey, very bland and almost everything in both of them has been done before.fatshodan

hmm... i don't see how hl2 shifted scenario while episode 2 didn't. the tone changed in episode 2 as well. i can't see how the cave and white forest are at all the same in tone. and if it didn't shift as much as hl2, that's only cuz it was 5 hours long. if it were three times as long (as hl2 is), i'd imagine there'd be 5 shifts in tone (for a total of 6 different tones), which is about the same as in hl2. that last strider invasion was pure panic on the player's part; nowhere else did i feel as rushed and felt the situation was dire as i did fighting off the striders. that's a completely different tone than in the cave; despite the fact that you're supposed to be saving alyx, there was no real urgency, and you were just kind of mesmerized by your surrounding, and you really felt like exploring (ok, there's something inherently wrong in looking around while alyx is dying, but that's just a necessary evil). i think that's a shift in tone.

that's not even a good example in tone shift, and i can't really put it in words, but i hope you at least agree that there was at least that one tone shift (for a total of 2 different tones) in episode 2. now that i write this, i'm not even sure what tone exactly is. i think it's mood that you're referring to, right? i'm totally confusing myself here...

Which set piece are you talking about, here? Killing Antlions with turrets? Happened in HL2, only they weren't Antlions, they were those flying buzzsaws.fatshodan

ok, the turrets are obviously easy to bash. i agree; the turret level has been done. but besides the turret level, what's recycled? and besides, even if some parts seem familiar (and honestly, i don't see it - the white forest was like 50-60% of the game, and you even admit that it's unique (at least, it sets it apart from hl2)), it's an expansion. you're being way too picky. 50-60% of change for an expansion is more than you can say for other expansions. if white forest is a set piece that's unique, that's over half the game.

and besides, the game's new enemy and weapon were great and added something completely different to the series. the hunters added so much to the game, and every level that you encounter them in (like inside the lab or out in the forest or inside a house) is designed with them in mind - mainly to feature what i think is the greatest pathfinding a.i. in any game thus far; the strider busters added a lot as well - it made that last battle really epic, cuz you weren't just taking 2 or 3 striders down with some rockets; you were taking down 8-10, all the while racing the clock. if that last battle and those fights against the hunters didn't get your blood boiling, i guess this game really isn't for you.

sorry if my constant editing didn't give you the chance to read the 'final' version... and the last 3 or 4 edits were just me picking apart my bad grammar (or spelling mistakes). i dunno why i care so much about that...

[QUOTE="fireandcloud"]i mean the going up and down ladders in a cylindrically-shaped space, defending the space from intrudersfatshodan

I don't even remember this particular part, so I don't really know what to say. If I don't remember it, I doubt it impressed me too much.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think the Episodes are both good, but I don't think either one of them is great. I think HL2 is a masterpiece without equal, but if I wanted to play it all over again, I would. I don't need this poor man's remake to remind me how great a game it is.

That said, I have only played each episode once and you have brought it to my attention that I don't remember parts of them, so perhaps I should replay them.

ok, now that i thought about it some, i don't know about climbing ladders. i just had the impression that the chamber the rocket was inside was cylindrical and had a really high ceiling with ladders leading down. but i think the ladders were closed off. obviously, it's been a while since i last played it (but i did play it 4 or 5 times). but you did have to defend that space (and the entire lab) from a combine invasion. but it wasn't unique to the series; it was pretty much just gunplay, as you like to put it (except when fighting the hunters). anyway, not sure if it's worth playing for something that i don't even remember correctly, but it's worth playing for the sake of playing it. :)

edit: ok, i just checked out that level again. there is a huge cylindrical space with combines coming down the ceiling just as the ceiling closes, which is reminiscent of half-life. that part of the game isn't great but the stuff just before it (with all the hunters) is fun. it's also fun to jump down and try to land in the pool of water. :P anyway, hopefully to be continued tomorrow...

I know I am going to sound like the master of the obvious, but...

Halflife 2 episode 1 and 2 is STILL one of the best games out there :)

After building my new Rig I burned through Bioshock, Crisis, and Assassins Creed. I am going to pick up World in Conflict and COD4 VERY soon, but in the meantime I wondered how HL2 would perform with my new setup.

Holy **** What a great game to play again! I'm already sucked into it :)

How could anyone NOT own the Orange box?

psilocybn

I agree, although I've haven't played ep1 or ep2 yet HL2 was an awesome experience. Water Hazard was it's weakest point IMO, but the rest of the levels (especially Ravenholm) were alot of fun

I am not gonna pick apart your entire post, fireandcloud, but we clearly disagree pretty completely on the Episodes.

It's no surprise, really, since everyone seems to love them. Tssch.

I'll wait for Episode 3, and play all three back to back and see what I think of them then, but nothing about the Episodes really impressed me - and worse still, I didn't find them fun.

I am not gonna pick apart your entire post, fireandcloud, but we clearly disagree pretty completely on the Episodes.

It's no surprise, really, since everyone seems to love them. Tssch.

I'll wait for Episode 3, and play all three back to back and see what I think of them then, but nothing about the Episodes really impressed me - and worse still, I didn't find them fun.

fatshodan

oh well.

but i do agree that if the episodes were supposed to be hl3, they'd be somewhat disappointing. but i choose to look at them as expansions, mainly because i'm hoping for the real hl3 with a completely new engine. it's time valve upgraded...

I have to say, this is one of the reasons I dislike Ep2 so much. The cave area accounted for nearly a full quarter of the Episode, and what was it? It was just running through a narrow-as-hell corridor, occasionally shooting a few bugs and solving a ton of tedious and simple physics puzzles that were good in HL2 only because they were new and unique, but I feel they have no place in HL any more.

fatshodan

It wasn't a ton. There were a few puzzles that were simple. I thought the caves were suitably claustrophobic and I loved that bit with Sheckley and Friend, how you had to defend the tunnels. The chase with the guardian is fun too. I was thinking about the Vautigaun lately and it is quite deep what he says to you: They remember how you used to kill them but they also recognise that you (freeman) also have qualities that they believed were only in their race.

I don't see the episodes as shifting scenario as much as shifting location. You're still just fighting enemies in a pretty standard way. In HL2, the entire tone of the game changed with each new area. From the 1984-style intro to the airboat to a game version of the movie Tremors to creeping through a ghost town to squashing enemies with an industrial crane to leading a team of insectoids on a prison raid to crazy firefights with human companions. Every area was utterly, utterly unique - not just in location, but in tone.

fatshodan

Some of the sections in Vanilla HL2 went on far too long: in particular the airboat levels.

The Episodes are far more tighter in their storytelling and the sections never go on too long (at least not for me, you found the caves too long, but thats your opinion). How can you expect there to be as much variety when the Episodes have been deliberately shorter than the Original game?

I did say besides White Forest. And even though that was a unique set piece, it got pretty old for me after the first kill. It was just wrinse and repeat after that.

fatshodan

I thought it was extremely exciting, intense and demonstrated the improvements with the visuals like the destruction of the saw-mill.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think the Episodes are both good, but I don't think either one of them is great. I think HL2 is a masterpiece without equal, but if I wanted to play it all over again, I would. I don't need this poor man's remake to remind me how great a game it is.

That said, I have only played each episode once and you have brought it to my attention that I don't remember parts of them, so perhaps I should replay them.

fatshodan

Its not a poor man's remake: It's an episode not a remake or a direct sequel. There are going to be similiar elements from the universe of course. In terms of storytelling, visuals, pacing, set pieces, a new level of emotion in games, I think both Episodes are quite outstanding, and even more impressive given how good HL2 was.

I hope you replay both games and enjoy them like I did..Mf-- I mean..fatshodan....ahem :P

It wasn't a ton. There were a few puzzles that were simple. biggest_loser

Well, there may have only been 4 or 5, but each one made me a little more pissed off than the last.

I was thinking about the Vautigaun lately and it is quite deep what he says to you: They remember how you used to kill them but they also recognise that you (freeman) also have qualities that they believed were only in their race.biggest_loser

Yeah, that was neat - but I don't see a few lines of dialogue as making the difference between good and great.

Some of the sections in Vanilla HL2 went on far too long: in particular the airboat levels. biggest_loser

I didn't feel there was any filler in HL2. It all felt excellent.

How can you expect there to be as much variety when the Episodes have been deliberately shorter than the Original game?biggest_loser

I don't expect there to be as much variety in terms of the numbers of things there are, but what I do expect is for the degree of variety of the things that are in the game to be equal to that of the original game.

I don't see shooting enemies in a cave, then shooting enemies in a field, then shooting enemies in another field as a very large degree of variety. Not compared with HL2, where all manner of awesome stuff happened (see my list in a reply to fireandcloud). Basically, I would be happy to see that kind of list, only cut in half. Not as much, but the same degree of variety.

I thought it was extremely exciting, intense and demonstrated the improvements with the visuals like the destruction of the saw-mill.biggest_loser

Eh... it was okay. It goes in part to how easy HL2 is. I never once felt like I was in any real danger of dying, or of losing. I am not the kind of gamer who needs the difficulty curve to be a vertical line to have fun, but I believe strongly in risk vs reward. Without risk - a reasonable chance of death - the rewards of success are pretty worthless to me.

The improved Source is awesome, you will get no argument from me on the glory that is Source.

Its not a poor man's remake: It's an episode not a remake or a direct sequel.biggest_loser

Yeah, it's not a remake per se, but the game does use all of the same gameplay mechanics and (more or less) the same engine. The only real difference is the locations are slightly different, there is a stronger focus on gunplay, and the story is a little different.

I consider it a remake in the same way that I consider Alien 3 a remale of Alien. It's pretty much the same thing done all over again, only not as well.

I hope you replay both games and enjoy them like I did..Mf-- I mean..fatshodan....ahem :Pbiggest_loser

Dunno what you mean by that, but yeah, I will replay them at some point.

[QUOTE="psilocybn"]

I know I am going to sound like the master of the obvious, but...

Halflife 2 episode 1 and 2 is STILL one of the best games out there :)

After building my new Rig I burned through Bioshock, Crisis, and Assassins Creed. I am going to pick up World in Conflict and COD4 VERY soon, but in the meantime I wondered how HL2 would perform with my new setup.

Holy **** What a great game to play again! I'm already sucked into it :)

How could anyone NOT own the Orange box?

lionheart22

I agree, although I've haven't played ep1 or ep2 yet HL2 was an awesome experience. Water Hazard was it's weakest point IMO, but the rest of the levels (especially Ravenholm) were alot of fun

wow, your opinion is perfectly opposite from mine. i thought water hazard was the best level, and ravenholm was the weak point.