A major turning point in PC online gaming may be at hand...

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TheWalrusKing

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#1 TheWalrusKing
Member since 2003 • 956 Posts

If other devs and publishers go the route of Activision and IW I think we could be seeing the start of the consolizing of PC games. Taking out dedicated servers, P2P matchmaking and the eventual charging us $10 for 3 maps or whatever. I just see it snowballing away. Console people dont understand because they bit it long ago by accepting $5-10-20 add ons for what may very well be on the disc they purchased day 1. They have been taking it in the pooper for years, and frankly as a Consoler myself, (dont play enough to purch anything other than Beatle Rock Band tracks). I just see this as bad, not because we are loosing out on a killer version of COD4, that too, but the eventual spreading of the game its introducing.

ANYWAY, Im going to post this post from Joystiq that someone ELSE wrote, cant find his name cause Joystiqs forum comment thing is for the f'ing birds. Here it is, and I havent seen anyone else post anything as effective on any of the 8 forums I view.

His name is Jackel on there found the name.

-----------

While that might very be the case if the game flops on our platform, it would also send a clear message to both the publisher and developer that we won't put up with this kind of crap. If we pay substantially more for hardware, if patching a game is absolutely required to make it stable post-launch, if our games implement DRM schemes that prevent resale, and if we get content far later than our console counterparts do, the absolute least a developer can do is to ensure the features they just cut from the game are in place.

Privately owned servers ensure that, when IW's gets yanked offline for maintenance or goes down because they can't handle the player load they've been given, people can still play the game online. This is why some of the most touted exclusives for the Xbox 360 and PS3 were unplayable online for days (or even weeks) after they were launched. IW and Activision both know this, so their decision to remove a feature just to "streamline" online connectivity in a market that had online multiplayer years before any console did (and did just fine) is simply an anti-consumer act that is nigh retarded.

Completely removing mod support from a PC title is, also, an act of unfathomable stupidity. PC games are often bought because they provide the consumer with an opportunity to create their own content in an environment where they don't have the money or technical expertise to do otherwise. Counter Strike started off as a Half-life mod; it is still one the most played games online for any platform despite having been released a decade ago. Team Fortess? It's Quake mod that's had infinity longer legs (and arguable more success) than the very game it was spawned from. The PC port of RE4 looked worse than the PS2 version did when it was released; because of the community, updates were made to the game that not only allow it to easily compete with most current gen titles, but fixed the well documented control issues and even provided others (I'm sure you can now use a Wiimote for the PC version). We could delve into the countless weapons, characters, custom maps, custom levels, and total conversions that the modding community have made. These are all things the console ecosystem often does not provide (sometimes for copyright issues, sometimes to wring money out of wallets in order to sell you things the community could've created in a day) and it's always been a major factor in purchasing a game for one platform over another. Which, I'm sure, is why they killed MW2's modding community before it had a chance to begin; they now have the opportunity to sell us 3 maps at the low price of $10 and there's no way for us to compete with them. With IW pulling the feature from one of the year's most advertised and anticipated games in order to hock **** to us we would've made on our own, they risk giving other developer a precedent to do the same for future titles. ::claps:: Way to piss on the fans that made you a top developer, Infinity Ward.

To do all of that while charging us $60 for a game that offers substantially less than its $50 predecessor did while forcing us to use Steam so our games can't be resold after they're played and then to completely hack out any feature that would've made the game desirable to a PC gamer in the first g*ddamn place...well...there's just no point in playing or owning the PC version even if it does look and perform better.

To all Infinity Ward and Activision employees (which I'm sure is none) who read this site, I have the following kind words for your consideration. Go **** yourselves, your games, and I hope to see all of your future endeavors flop horrifically. We made you (Infinity Ward) what you are today and you ****wits can't even make a clean stab to our backs as a token of appreciation; no, you've got to twist the blade slightly so we actually feel the pain. Your FPS is one of many available to a platform that spawned and still dominates the genre; no matter how anticipated, no matter how advertised, you're just one fish in a sea of many. I hope Activision runs you and your franchise into the ground just like they have to every one of their pet developers; at this point in time, you don't deserve anything else.

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JangoWuzHere

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#2 JangoWuzHere
Member since 2007 • 19032 Posts

I didn't read all of your post but I do think that this whole thing COULD change the way PC gamers like to play. IW is honestly trying to downgrade the way we play are games. At that point I honestly do not see that much reason to play PC games if we don't have the things that do define PC gaming....

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04dcarraher

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#3 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23858 Posts
[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]

I didn't read all of your post but I do think that this whole thing COULD change the way PC gamers like to play. IW is honestly trying to downgrade the way we play are games. At that point I honestly do not see that much reason to play PC games if we don't have the things that do define PC gaming....

Their just jealous that modders fix thier issues or do things better :P But really Learning that IW always wanted to create games on consoles to begin with and also is a fact that they didnt want to WWII after CoD:UO, I think IW were NOOBS from the getgo, they just needed to get their foot in the door to make games a noob fest.
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Deadly_Fatalis

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#4 Deadly_Fatalis
Member since 2006 • 1756 Posts
I don't think it will happen. Us PC Gamers are better than that. When M$ tried to get us to pay for live, all of us were like "screw that", and now live is free. We won't simple be persuaded like our console brethren.
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dmb34

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#5 dmb34
Member since 2004 • 1102 Posts
the problem with those statements is the fact we are stuck with whatever the devs want to do, if all pc gamers all the sudden stopped buying and playing games they would just cater even more to consolites...Pc games arent holding the industry together, we are at the mercy of the devs plain and simple
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Shatilov

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#6 Shatilov
Member since 2005 • 4150 Posts
Things this gen are getting out controls . Mod support is being dropped, games are crappy & buggy, lazy porting is dominant to most games, You can feel the consolization in every game you purchase on the PC, DLCs are getting out of control with 1st day DLCs releases !!!!! PC platform is moving toward the DD in a hasty shift, PC shelves are empty worldwide ..... I can go on what's next ......
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zipozal

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#7 zipozal
Member since 2007 • 1809 Posts

the problem with those statements is the fact we are stuck with whatever the devs want to do, if all pc gamers all the sudden stopped buying and playing games they would just cater even more to consolites...Pc games arent holding the industry together, we are at the mercy of the devs plain and simpledmb34

Are you for real?

Video Game developers compete with other developers so for you to suggest that there could be some monopoly formed where this horrible system IW is setting up becomes the norm is completely insanse.

In capitalism at it's purest form popular product/price/customer service combination win, not things the consumers hate.

So for you to suggest that this already extremely unpopular, expensive move IW is making could become the norm demonstrates you don't know how the economy works.

We've already seen Dice taking shots at IW for this.

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dmb34

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#8 dmb34
Member since 2004 • 1102 Posts
umm console game sales vs pc game sales= no contest devs flock to the money plain and simple
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TheWalrusKing

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#9 TheWalrusKing
Member since 2003 • 956 Posts

umm console game sales vs pc game sales= no contest devs flock to the money plain and simpledmb34

Exactly which is what hurts us trying to vote w our wallets, we can, and it is felt by most companies but they make so much off consoles they:

1. Dont care, they are making money enough

2. They slowly stop making pc games all together or therefore the ports are more oftenly obvious and horrible.

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dmb34

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#10 dmb34
Member since 2004 • 1102 Posts
my whole point to my comment is we as pc gamers dont have as much power as we used to, console games are where the money is therefore dont count on devs blinking an eye if pc gamers throw a fit.
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chandu83

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#11 chandu83
Member since 2005 • 4864 Posts
I guess now is the time hardware companies start investing in making PC games. If it were not for PC gamers, Nvidia and AMD+ATI wouldn't be as rich, so I guess its time for them to give something back.
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stele29

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#12 stele29
Member since 2008 • 551 Posts
They pay $60 due to licensing fees as well as piracy adjustments. Console games are pirated far more than PC games. The black market in asia is strife with it. I do agree that a turning point is coming, but I believe it will be to the benefit of PC gamers and not the other way around. I agree that the DLC market can mean bad things for everyone in regards to gimped games, but as far as mods go there has been no real increase or decrease to what games offer "official" mod support. In your argument your specifically mentioning a couple of the major developers, but for every major there are 10 smallish developers that are PC only and offer tons of support. Of course they may not be the types of games you play, but that doesn't change that they are there. I must add that we license the use of games, and when developers decide that its too expensive to support it, then they stop. Its as simple as that. You can cry and have a temper tantrum, but in the long run its their prerogative whether to allow online play or not. All I can say is vote with your money, since they is what they are aiming for.
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ColdfireTrilogy

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#13 ColdfireTrilogy
Member since 2005 • 4911 Posts
yup IW can suckit ... that guy summed it up more than anything ive ever read. I suppose ill wait for BF3 ... dices 1.5 patch with EAs backing shows me that some developers still love their PC gamers.
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ColdfireTrilogy

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#14 ColdfireTrilogy
Member since 2005 • 4911 Posts
They pay $60 due to licensing fees as well as piracy adjustments. Console games are pirated far more than PC games. The black market in asia is strife with it. I do agree that a turning point is coming, but I believe it will be to the benefit of PC gamers and not the other way around. I agree that the DLC market can mean bad things for everyone in regards to gimped games, but as far as mods go there has been no real increase or decrease to what games offer "official" mod support. In your argument your specifically mentioning a couple of the major developers, but for every major there are 10 smallish developers that are PC only and offer tons of support. Of course they may not be the types of games you play, but that doesn't change that they are there. I must add that we license the use of games, and when developers decide that its too expensive to support it, then they stop. Its as simple as that. You can cry and have a temper tantrum, but in the long run its their prerogative whether to allow online play or not. All I can say is vote with your money, since they is what they are aiming for.stele29
with Dedicated servers they usually host through a 3rd party server browser like Gamespy anyway. Long after the game is dead and devs have stopped deving for it the game lives on in MP... and COD4 DID offer mod support so to take that away and change from ded server to p2tp you know exactly WHY they did it. More money for more Downloadable Crap.
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RobertBowen

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#15 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts

Totally agree with the first post in this thread. This kind of behaviour is simply unacceptable, and it's a direct assault on a tradition of PC gaming that started all the way back in the days of DOOM. First devs start dropping LAN support, now it's dedicated servers in favour of P2P matchmaking, that we all know leads to latency issues. And finally dropping mod support so they can charge for DLC on the PC.

Just remember that this is not the first time devs have tried to drop dedicated server support on the PC. EA tried it with Medal Of Honor: Airborne. Valve tried it with L4D. Codemasters have done it with Operation Flashpoint 2. Now IW are trying it with MW2. This is becoming a growing trend, by several developers, and it has to be nipped in the bud now.

My gaming rig is dead at the moment, but I bought a PC because I wanted to play PC games. I don't want my PC being turned into a glorified console by clueless devs and publishers trying to nickel and dime me, and having total control over my online gaming needs. I've been part of a clan and enjoyed it immensely. I've even messed around making custom maps in the past, and I would hate to see those choices stripped away just so a greedy developer can make an extra buck.

The sales of MW2 need to tank in order to send a clear message from the PC gaming community that this kind of stupidity won't be tolerated. This is a threat not only to clan communities world-wide, but to the online PC gaming community as a whole. The CoD series had grown to become one of the most successful online games, and that is why they are trying to use it to force through this kind of locked in system.

If we can make an impact, and IW and Activision choose to stop making PC games in future, well so be it. I would prefer to pay that price if it means our tradition of online PC gaming remains unsullied.

EDIT: I have just come across this information posted on the MW2 forums - it's about the PC Gaming Alliance and their plans for the future of the PC platform. If you think this move by IW is a one-off, you are very much mistaken. A lot of developers are planning similar self-contained networks for content delivery - and that means lock-in. :/

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04dcarraher

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#16 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23858 Posts
Well all I can say is I hope MW2 tanks on Pc to spread a message to IW and others not to gimp Pc users. Each game they come out with is getting worse then the last one,stripping what made CoD good. Each round is more console this console that, with microtrasactions, dlc's which makes me believe that they are only giving us like 80% of the game then if you want the rest pay for it. Consolers are ruining gaming in general because they believe the hype and buy anything that comes their way. Which turn out that Devs are like ya we can do this more and more. That why in the last few years games are getting shorter and shorter, less quality, rehash after rehash. And this focus on mainstream and casual gaming ,noob friendly gaming is hurting alot of games too.
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PTMags

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#17 PTMags
Member since 2006 • 783 Posts

I can't wait until they blame piracy for the lack of PC sales; not the price increase, not the console matchmaking system, not the lack of mods, not the Steam requirement. As someone said a couple posts above, console piracy is just as bad if not worse than pc piracy; yet it's never brought up because they cant track every pirated copy and put it into a nice, neat little statistic due to bootlegs/burned discs being the method of choice. One downloaded console torrent turns into 50, 100, 500+ bootlegs.

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k0r3aN_pR1d3

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#18 k0r3aN_pR1d3
Member since 2005 • 2148 Posts
We need more people making brilliant PC games. So we can avoid this crap.
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leonjuretic

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#19 leonjuretic
Member since 2005 • 271 Posts

any game that requires reflexes needs professionally maintained servers, simple as that

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Dark_prince123

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#20 Dark_prince123
Member since 2008 • 1149 Posts
matchMaking and P2P in PC is A big flop just look at Flashpoint 2 in consoles its 4v4 and no need for dedcaited server but in PC its 16v16 so MatchMaking and P2P is not working I already Wasted 40 $ so I canceled My Pre order for MW 2 for now I am gonna buy the Both Upcoming Battlefield games .
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KingOfTheNubeis

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#21 KingOfTheNubeis
Member since 2002 • 291 Posts

I was talking to a friend who works one of the big game publishers(I'm not going to say which,he has a wife and a morgage to pay)while staying round his house in the States.This was a while ago.

We got onto the outlook for gaming,we both found we had a love for gaming when we worked at Honeywell.

To be honest he layed all this out to me all thouse months ago.I thought he was bullsh*ting me.

Turns out he was SO right.The marginalization of the PC as a original platform and reining in of it in the market place.

The destruction of the "Communitys" that voice and create "problems" replace them with small handable groups that don't highlight shortcomings and effect sales.

The elimination of Free User made content so that Chargable Downloadable Content wll be more attractive,with no competion or standards to be held up against.

The streamlining of development by the wider adoption of Console ports,and the savings made by not developing a full adapted PC version.Take the console experience as a baseline(lowest common denomnated gaming experience,as he called it) and apply that to any roadmap in the development of any PC game.

Control OF any online game or franchise so that it can only be used throu Publisher owned inferstructure.This facilitates the maxium use of that "portal".Information and data is then used to proactively sell content to the said user on a personal basis while eleminating ANY possible use of external content(mods maps)not of CDC thou "Uncontrolable sources",IE Stand Alone Severs.

This is the equivalent George Orwells "1984" by Big Video gaming Publishers.AND ITS HERE..this game is its biggest vanguard!If we don't make some sort of stand by not buying it,this is the begining of the end.

SO whats the future of PC Gaming it this is deemed a success ?

"Imagine a Boot (worn by a Big Game Publisher)Stamping Repeatably into the face of a PC User!"while he repeats"Buy what I GIVE U..NOT what you want!"

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Shatilov

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#22 Shatilov
Member since 2005 • 4150 Posts

I was talking to a friend who works one of the big game publishers(I'm not going to say which,he has a wife and a morgage to pay)while staying round his house in the States.This was a while ago.

We got onto the outlook for gaming,we both found we had a love for gaming when we worked at Honeywell.

To be honest he layed all this out to me all thouse months ago.I thought he was bullsh*ting me.

Turns out he was SO right.The marginalization of the PC as a original platform and reining in of it in the market place.

The destruction of the "Communitys" that voice and create "problems" replace them with small handable groups that don't highlight shortcomings and effect sales.

The elimination of Free User made content so that Chargable Downloadable Content wll be more attractive,with no competion or standards to be held up against.

The streamlining of development by the wider adoption of Console ports,and the savings made by not developing a full adapted PC version.Take the console experience as a baseline(lowest common denomnated gaming experience,as he called it) and apply that to any roadmap in the development of any PC game.

Control OF any online game or franchise so that it can only be used throu Publisher owned inferstructure.This facilitates the maxium use of that "portal".Information and data is then used to proactively sell content to the said user on a personal basis while eleminating ANY possible use of external content(mods maps)not of CDC thou "Uncontrolable sources",IE Stand Alone Severs.

This is the equivalent George Orwells "1984" by Big Video gaming Publishers.AND ITS HERE..this game is its biggest vanguard!If we don't make some sort of stand by not buying it,this is the begining of the end.

SO whats the future of PC Gaming it this is deemed a success ?

"Imagine a Boot (worn by a Big Game Publisher)Stamping Repeatably into the face of a PC User!"while he repeats"Buy what I GIVE U..NOT what you want!"

KingOfTheNubeis

by the way you outlined it, it actaully sounds like a plan to control the PC !!!

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badtaker

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#23 badtaker
Member since 2009 • 3806 Posts
Valve is the only company who cares about PC.Valve never complains about Low Sales,Piracy........etc. I want Valve to Make Some Sports.Come Valve Hire some developers PC gamers are with You.
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naval

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#24 naval
Member since 2003 • 11108 Posts
Let's not be so melodramatic, this in it self will not change anything.for example Dice said few hours ago .. dedicated servers would always be a given in their games. In other words not all devs will go this way especially those who get a really good chunk of their sales from PC I do think the situation may worsen or improve based on the sales of this game. If sales of MW 2 on PC decreases drastically, well more devs would be afraid to try this out and on the other hand if it improves ales a lot, more devs would definitely willing to try it out
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badtaker

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#25 badtaker
Member since 2009 • 3806 Posts
Let's not be so melodramatic, this in it self will not change anything.for example Dice said few hours ago .. dedicated servers would always be a given in their games. In other words not all devs will go this way especially those who get a really good chunk of their sales from PC I do think the situation may worsen or improve based on the sales of this game. If sales of MW 2 on PC decreases drastically, well more devs would be afraid to try this out and on the other hand if it improves ales a lot, more devs would definitely willing to try it outnaval
Dice ----- BF1943.Dice and EA Sucks
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Shatilov

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#26 Shatilov
Member since 2005 • 4150 Posts
I dont think that any good will come out of this .
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naval

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#27 naval
Member since 2003 • 11108 Posts
[QUOTE="naval"]Let's not be so melodramatic, this in it self will not change anything.for example Dice said few hours ago .. dedicated servers would always be a given in their games. In other words not all devs will go this way especially those who get a really good chunk of their sales from PC I do think the situation may worsen or improve based on the sales of this game. If sales of MW 2 on PC decreases drastically, well more devs would be afraid to try this out and on the other hand if it improves ales a lot, more devs would definitely willing to try it outbadtaker
Dice ----- BF1943.Dice and EA Sucks

BF 1943 ? A simplistic version of older game on pc --- i don't really think it would have sold well on pc as it is on consoles
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Dark_prince123

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#28 Dark_prince123
Member since 2008 • 1149 Posts
[QUOTE="badtaker"][QUOTE="naval"]Let's not be so melodramatic, this in it self will not change anything.for example Dice said few hours ago .. dedicated servers would always be a given in their games. In other words not all devs will go this way especially those who get a really good chunk of their sales from PC I do think the situation may worsen or improve based on the sales of this game. If sales of MW 2 on PC decreases drastically, well more devs would be afraid to try this out and on the other hand if it improves ales a lot, more devs would definitely willing to try it outnaval
Dice ----- BF1943.Dice and EA Sucks

BF 1943 ? A simplistic version of older game on pc --- i don't really think it would have sold well on pc as it is on consoles

I respect DICE they made one of the Best games ever made, about 1943 I don't think its a big deal if you want it play Battlefield 1943 or battlefield which are maybe 20 $ , about Mirror's edge i think the decision of delaying the game was Ea but it wasn't that far it was only 1 month ( not like noobisoft ) I don't respect IW anymore , I just closed flasjpoint 2 My xfire said I've playing he game for 40 hours maybe 20 for the Match Making thing , yesterday I wanted to play with my friend and it took me 30 mins to play !!
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RobertBowen

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#29 RobertBowen
Member since 2003 • 4094 Posts

@kingofthenubeis - it would not surprise me in the slightest if what you say is correct, and it actually ties together with the information in the thread I referred to. I'll just cut and paste some of that post in here to save time:

This seems to have begun with a serious look at what World of Warcraft has done to thwart piracy and maintain a consistent network. Delivering high quality content and controlling every aspect of it's intellectual properties, Battlenet is reborn as a beginning stage of that uniformity. I realize there are have been games before WoW to do network play but none that have done it to this degree of total game support and control, also none with so much profitability. Now all Blizzard games will be directly tied into the Battlenet system for purchase, updates and content control, preventing piracy and cheating.

This really began to take notice year before last at the now, PC Gaming Alliance's annual game industry meetings where Blizzard spoke about this concept. New models of gaming were talked about, but none really hit home well like content delivery systems like Steam and network management like Battlenet's new system. You see other developers and publishers following suit with test networks, offering free online gaming content delivery and management from companies like Id software and the Quake Live Network, EA's Battlefield Heroes test bed and Game Campus with a host of free games to name a few. There are a host of networks being tested like this across the net that people don't think about as more than just a free game online or a way to get content to the customer like Steam.

At the PC Gaming Alliance's annual game industry meetings there were closed door discussions on how cutting the middle man out by doing away with packaging and store marketing all together by 2013 would boost this profitability exponentially. It's confirmed that about 40% of the gaming industry has a plan in place to shift to this content delivery and management package. It's estimated that by then, 80% of the gaming industry will be internet content delivery ready and be managed solely by 30%+ of the market. Steam would be a good example who owns about 35% of all games delivered over the internet. I could go on about my point, but I think you guys get it pretty well.

So in light of what you have just posted, I think your friend might have been privy to some of these apparent closed door discussions. Although none of this can be corroborated, and may be inaccurate rumours, I do think there is something to all of this.

I've expected something along these lines for some time. When DRM was a big issue, several PC gamers raised the point that it could be used to lock people into online servers, and that you would eventually have to play single player online, and then it would become pay to play. Well, I think these moves by Blizzard and now IW are going in that direction.

Drop external LAN support, and tie it to an online service instead so that no one can play the game without you knowing. In the case of IW, drop LAN play altogether, so no one can use one copy of the game on multiple PCs to start a LAN game.

Well, take it a step further. If IW makes a success of IW.Net, they will lock players into MW 2. When they release DLC map packs that have to be paid for, just imagine the effect of that. You go to join a game, but then you find out the host has the DLC map pack, and you don't. So you look for another game to join, and another. Before long it might become a real pain if you can't find a 'standard' host, and so more and more players would have to buy that DLC just to continue playing online. Just as people had to patch to the latest version and install map packs on their PCs to join servers that had already upgraded in previous CoD games.

Of course, they won't force you to buy the DLC, but you may find that your choices for online play become very limited as a result, and then there is always peer pressure.

Anyway, interesting food for thought.

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badtaker

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#30 badtaker
Member since 2009 • 3806 Posts
[QUOTE="badtaker"][QUOTE="naval"]Let's not be so melodramatic, this in it self will not change anything.for example Dice said few hours ago .. dedicated servers would always be a given in their games. In other words not all devs will go this way especially those who get a really good chunk of their sales from PC I do think the situation may worsen or improve based on the sales of this game. If sales of MW 2 on PC decreases drastically, well more devs would be afraid to try this out and on the other hand if it improves ales a lot, more devs would definitely willing to try it outnaval
Dice ----- BF1943.Dice and EA Sucks

BF 1943 ? A simplistic version of older game on pc --- i don't really think it would have sold well on pc as it is on consoles

why Excuse???1943 was announced for 360PS3and PC.
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naval

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#31 naval
Member since 2003 • 11108 Posts
[QUOTE="badtaker"][QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="badtaker"] Dice ----- BF1943.Dice and EA Sucks

BF 1943 ? A simplistic version of older game on pc --- i don't really think it would have sold well on pc as it is on consoles

why Excuse???1943 was announced for 360PS3and PC.

ok, so I guess I should be angry at EA/Dice for not milking PC gamers as soon as possible by releasing a watered down version :roll:
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badtaker

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#32 badtaker
Member since 2009 • 3806 Posts
[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="badtaker"][QUOTE="naval"] BF 1943 ? A simplistic version of older game on pc --- i don't really think it would have sold well on pc as it is on consoles

why Excuse???1943 was announced for 360PS3and PC.

ok, so I guess I should be angry at EA/Dice for not milking PC gamers as soon as possible by releasing a watered down version :roll:

Some people don't read carefully """"Why Dice said 1943 coming for 360PS3and PC""""".They could have announced for only PS3/360
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naval

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#33 naval
Member since 2003 • 11108 Posts
[QUOTE="badtaker"][QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="badtaker"] why Excuse???1943 was announced for 360PS3and PC.

ok, so I guess I should be angry at EA/Dice for not milking PC gamers as soon as possible by releasing a watered down version :roll:

Some people don't read carefully """"Why Dice said 1943 coming for 360PS3and PC""""".They could have announced for only PS3/360

it's coming for PC so why is it better to announce for PS3/360 rather than PS3/360/PC ?
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zomglolcats

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#34 zomglolcats
Member since 2008 • 4335 Posts

I can't wait until they blame piracy for the lack of PC sales; not the price increase, not the console matchmaking system, not the lack of mods, not the Steam requirement. As someone said a couple posts above, console piracy is just as bad if not worse than pc piracy; yet it's never brought up because they cant track every pirated copy and put it into a nice, neat little statistic due to bootlegs/burned discs being the method of choice. One downloaded console torrent turns into 50, 100, 500+ bootlegs.

PTMags
Well, to be fair, console piracy is greater than PC in Asia. I seriously doubt that is the case in Europe and North America.
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zomglolcats

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#35 zomglolcats
Member since 2008 • 4335 Posts
We need more people making brilliant PC games. So we can avoid this crap. k0r3aN_pR1d3
I agree. If more and more big name publishers and devs start going this route, can you just imagine how big of an opportunity a smaller dev would have by going against this scheme/system? They could stand to make a ton of money and popularity by making a PC game that isn't gimped in that fashion.
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nsorrelle

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#36 nsorrelle
Member since 2009 • 89 Posts

1. Support Valve

2. Support Stardock

3. Support Bioware

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TheWalrusKing

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#37 TheWalrusKing
Member since 2003 • 956 Posts

1. Support Valve

2. Support Stardock

3. Support Bioware

nsorrelle

See I think this is key because while oall of the cancelations of preorders of MW2 will barely put a blip in the sales of it, most other games sell far fewer so this type action will actually effect alot of games. We have that to look for, if it happens again most likely it will be with a game that we can effect. (the reason I wont get Operation Flashpoint) which oddly happens to be for the very same reasons im not getting MW2.

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badtaker

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#38 badtaker
Member since 2009 • 3806 Posts
[QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="badtaker"][QUOTE="naval"] ok, so I guess I should be angry at EA/Dice for not milking PC gamers as soon as possible by releasing a watered down version :roll:

Some people don't read carefully """"Why Dice said 1943 coming for 360PS3and PC""""".They could have announced for only PS3/360

it's coming for PC so why is it better to announce for PS3/360 rather than PS3/360/PC ?

Why Dice delayed 1943 for PC ????? BF started on PC
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Lox_Cropek

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#39 Lox_Cropek
Member since 2008 • 3555 Posts

[QUOTE="PTMags"]

I can't wait until they blame piracy for the lack of PC sales; not the price increase, not the console matchmaking system, not the lack of mods, not the Steam requirement. As someone said a couple posts above, console piracy is just as bad if not worse than pc piracy; yet it's never brought up because they cant track every pirated copy and put it into a nice, neat little statistic due to bootlegs/burned discs being the method of choice. One downloaded console torrent turns into 50, 100, 500+ bootlegs.

zomglolcats

Well, to be fair, console piracy is greater than PC in Asia. I seriously doubt that is the case in Europe and North America.

Console piracy is worse than PC. I live in Brazil. I don't know ONE person that owns a console and uses original copies. Everytime i tell them that I use original games for PC/PS2 they just can't believe it. I do know people that play original PC games though...

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naval

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#40 naval
Member since 2003 • 11108 Posts
[QUOTE="badtaker"][QUOTE="naval"][QUOTE="badtaker"] Some people don't read carefully """"Why Dice said 1943 coming for 360PS3and PC""""".They could have announced for only PS3/360

it's coming for PC so why is it better to announce for PS3/360 rather than PS3/360/PC ?

Why Dice delayed 1943 for PC ????? BF started on PC

Can you just decide on your complain ? You seem to be all over the place. "Why Dice said 1943 coming for 360PS3and PC ?", "Why Dice delayed 1943 for PC?" etc .. Anyways the prominent reason is Frostbit engine has not been migrated to PC at the time of BF1943 like with consoles
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Dr_Brocoli

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#41 Dr_Brocoli
Member since 2007 • 3724 Posts
Didnt read al lyour post. You think the PC gaming community will follow IW's route ROFL!? Just cause one crappy company is doing it doesnt mean others will do it. Vavle for example would never make a move like that, neither would lots of European companies, and IW is just goign to go bankrupt in the pc area anyway, let them die.
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TheWalrusKing

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#42 TheWalrusKing
Member since 2003 • 956 Posts

[QUOTE="zomglolcats"][QUOTE="PTMags"]

I can't wait until they blame piracy for the lack of PC sales; not the price increase, not the console matchmaking system, not the lack of mods, not the Steam requirement. As someone said a couple posts above, console piracy is just as bad if not worse than pc piracy; yet it's never brought up because they cant track every pirated copy and put it into a nice, neat little statistic due to bootlegs/burned discs being the method of choice. One downloaded console torrent turns into 50, 100, 500+ bootlegs.

Lox_Cropek

Well, to be fair, console piracy is greater than PC in Asia. I seriously doubt that is the case in Europe and North America.

Console piracy is worse than PC. I live in Brazil. I don't know ONE person that owns a console and uses original copies. Everytime i tell them that I use original games for PC/PS2 they just can't believe it. I do know people that play original PC games though...

True was going to post on how many torrents were out for a XBOX 360 game but dont want to break the rules, its bad all over maybe worse for consoles but PC gamers get the raw end of it.

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#43 Penguin_dragon
Member since 2005 • 1516 Posts

Are you for real?

Video Game developers compete with other developers so for you to suggest that there could be some monopoly formed where this horrible system IW is setting up becomes the norm is completely insanse.

In capitalism at it's purest form popular product/price/customer service combination win, not things the consumers hate.

So for you to suggest that this already extremely unpopular, expensive move IW is making could become the norm demonstrates you don't know how the economy works.

We've already seen Dice taking shots at IW for this.

zipozal

In the modern day world, the consumer means nothing.

Companies spend millions of dollars telling YOU what YOU WANT through advertising.

This might not apply to "you" specifically, but rather, the masses of people who are easily persuaded to buy a product. In other words, IW isn't making money off of people like you so they are pandering to a different set of people; consolites.

Since they are changing demographics they are adjusting to what their new demographic wants; in this case, a more "consolized" and striped version of what we usually get.

Furthermore since CoD is a practically a household name, IW can go around and sell "Call of Duty: Princess Pony Rides" and it will still sell millions because tons of kids will hype it up and make it seem "cool".

After IW opens up to an untapped market of console style games, there will be a demand to that demographic.

And with a demand comes supply.

More developers will follow suite and copy IWs models and ideas.

The die hard PC gamers can complain all they want but our voice is minuscule compared to the casuals so they wont care.

Just look at the sales difference between a cult classic game like "S.T.A.L.K.E.R." and a casual game like "The Sims". Sooner or later developers will start to look towards the casual PC gaming market for big bucks. The rest of the market for hardcore gamers will either be populated by several independant developers with no name and little production value, or companies like IW will control that sect of the market through product recgnition and by forcing people to buy their product due to their popularity.

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zomglolcats

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#44 zomglolcats
Member since 2008 • 4335 Posts

[QUOTE="zomglolcats"][QUOTE="PTMags"]

I can't wait until they blame piracy for the lack of PC sales; not the price increase, not the console matchmaking system, not the lack of mods, not the Steam requirement. As someone said a couple posts above, console piracy is just as bad if not worse than pc piracy; yet it's never brought up because they cant track every pirated copy and put it into a nice, neat little statistic due to bootlegs/burned discs being the method of choice. One downloaded console torrent turns into 50, 100, 500+ bootlegs.

Lox_Cropek

Well, to be fair, console piracy is greater than PC in Asia. I seriously doubt that is the case in Europe and North America.

Console piracy is worse than PC. I live in Brazil. I don't know ONE person that owns a console and uses original copies. Everytime i tell them that I use original games for PC/PS2 they just can't believe it. I do know people that play original PC games though...

Brazil is South America though. Worldwide, it very well may be that console games are the most pirated. I can safely say that at least in the US, I really doubt console piracy is worse than PC.
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04dcarraher

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#45 04dcarraher
Member since 2004 • 23858 Posts

[QUOTE="Lox_Cropek"]

[QUOTE="zomglolcats"] Well, to be fair, console piracy is greater than PC in Asia. I seriously doubt that is the case in Europe and North America.zomglolcats

Console piracy is worse than PC. I live in Brazil. I don't know ONE person that owns a console and uses original copies. Everytime i tell them that I use original games for PC/PS2 they just can't believe it. I do know people that play original PC games though...

Brazil is South America though. Worldwide, it very well may be that console games are the most pirated. I can safely say that at least in the US, I really doubt console piracy is worse than PC.

Because most people here in the US are dumb when it comes to tech. Just look at the schooling differences between Asia and US what they are learn as a senior their learning in 6-7 grade. Plus theres tons of street venders that sell bootleg copies of everything and most of them are movies and games. This is why you see more pc devlopers overseas then in US, because the theres a bigger chunk of Pc users then console users. Even so there are alot of people in the US that bootleg console games, but their overshadowed by the other millions who buy. Like say 5 million buy maybe 1 million download or buy bootleg copies.

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#46 zipozal
Member since 2007 • 1809 Posts

[QUOTE="zipozal"]

Are you for real?

Video Game developers compete with other developers so for you to suggest that there could be some monopoly formed where this horrible system IW is setting up becomes the norm is completely insanse.

In capitalism at it's purest form popular product/price/customer service combination win, not things the consumers hate.

So for you to suggest that this already extremely unpopular, expensive move IW is making could become the norm demonstrates you don't know how the economy works.

We've already seen Dice taking shots at IW for this.

Penguin_dragon

In the modern day world, the consumer means nothing.

Companies spend millions of dollars telling YOU what YOU WANT through advertising.

This might not apply to "you" specifically, but rather, the masses of people who are easily persuaded to buy a product. In other words, IW isn't making money off of people like you so they are pandering to a different set of people; consolites.

Since they are changing demographics they are adjusting to what their new demographic wants; in this case, a more "consolized" and striped version of what we usually get.

Furthermore since CoD is a practically a household name, IW can go around and sell "Call of Duty: Princess Pony Rides" and it will still sell millions because tons of kids will hype it up and make it seem "cool".

After IW opens up to an untapped market of console style games, there will be a demand to that demographic.

And with a demand comes supply.

More developers will follow suite and copy IWs models and ideas.

The die hard PC gamers can complain all they want but our voice is minuscule compared to the casuals so they wont care.

Just look at the sales difference between a cult classic game like "S.T.A.L.K.E.R." and a casual game like "The Sims". Sooner or later developers will start to look towards the casual PC gaming market for big bucks. The rest of the market for hardcore gamers will either be populated by several independant developers with no name and little production value, or companies like IW will control that sect of the market through product recgnition and by forcing people to buy their product due to their popularity.

lmao so the argument is console or console like gamers are moving to and have been playing PC Games and they will just accept the downgrades?! lmao

Dude we've already seen this many times before for various reasons.

Counter-Strike Source is better than the original yet, the original is still the more played of the two

Now imagine if the new version (Source) added a few new things, but had removed dedicated servers, the games community would have been dead within a couple months of release.

And the same thing will happen here, people will move back or never leave the MW1 community in the first place because MW1 has many more features than the watered down new version.

Just wait till next March you'll see, MW2 on PC will have a community smaller than the COD WAW one which is only a fraction the size of the MW1 one.

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#47 -clippa-
Member since 2008 • 596 Posts

The penguin speaks a lot of sense, I'm afraid he might be right, it could end up changing the future of pc gaming dramatically if enough people accept it.

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mismajor99

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#48 mismajor99
Member since 2003 • 5676 Posts
Read that post the other day at Joystiq. Great post and points out most of the ill feelings PC gamers have right now. I hope the next FPS to come out on PC with Ded servers and mod tools (hopefully BF3) is purchased in droves my PC gamers. The only way to send a message is with our purchasing power. If Activision see's a competitor's game killing it on PC, it's probably the best way to shift this trend.
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TerroRizing

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#49 TerroRizing
Member since 2007 • 3210 Posts

i dont even care lol, valve has us more than covered.

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JLF1

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#50 JLF1
Member since 2005 • 8263 Posts

In the modern day world, the consumer means nothing.

Companies spend millions of dollars telling YOU what YOU WANT through advertising.

This might not apply to "you" specifically, but rather, the masses of people who are easily persuaded to buy a product. In other words, IW isn't making money off of people like you so they are pandering to a different set of people; consolites.

Since they are changing demographics they are adjusting to what their new demographic wants; in this case, a more "consolized" and striped version of what we usually get.

Furthermore since CoD is a practically a household name, IW can go around and sell "Call of Duty: Princess Pony Rides" and it will still sell millions because tons of kids will hype it up and make it seem "cool".

After IW opens up to an untapped market of console style games, there will be a demand to that demographic.

And with a demand comes supply.

More developers will follow suite and copy IWs models and ideas.

The die hard PC gamers can complain all they want but our voice is minuscule compared to the casuals so they wont care.

Just look at the sales difference between a cult classic game like "S.T.A.L.K.E.R." and a casual game like "The Sims". Sooner or later developers will start to look towards the casual PC gaming market for big bucks. The rest of the market for hardcore gamers will either be populated by several independant developers with no name and little production value, or companies like IW will control that sect of the market through product recgnition and by forcing people to buy their product due to their popularity.

Penguin_dragon

What you got against The Sims? It's easily one of the best PC franchises ever.