http://games.on.net/article/14566/And_The_Most_Pirated_Game_of_2011_Is....
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And The Most Pirated Game of 2011 Is....
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I thought cd projekt said the Witcher 2 was pirated 4.5 million times? That's more than Crysis 2.
I'm not intending to be rude or anything... But who cares, really? With the whole SOPA thing going on the last thing I care about is piracy. Not to mention those numbers are entirely false and not including "used games sales" which is where the real piracy comes in to play. The never mentioned piracy, or pirates such as used game distributors and customers.
1- What's this SOPA thing? 2- Used Game Distributors/Sales is NOT piracy.I'm not intending to be rude or anything... But who cares, really? With the whole SOPA thing going on the last thing I care about is piracy. Not to mention those numbers are entirely false and not including "used games sales" which is where the real piracy comes in to play. The never mentioned piracy, or pirates such as used game distributors and customers.
SystemsGO
[QUOTE="SystemsGO"]1- What's this SOPA thing? 2- Used Game Distributors/Sales is NOT piracy.I'm not intending to be rude or anything... But who cares, really? With the whole SOPA thing going on the last thing I care about is piracy. Not to mention those numbers are entirely false and not including "used games sales" which is where the real piracy comes in to play. The never mentioned piracy, or pirates such as used game distributors and customers.
FelipeInside
In a way, yes it is. The developers or publishers get no benefits from it, and without that retail game sales would go up by leaps and bounds thus more profits for them and much less complaining done by them, and no more stupid things like "SOPA" will happen. Sure, actual piracy numbers might increase too, but not as drastically as actual sales would. I can't link in the forums, because I forgot how so do you mind if I message you this sopa video I watched earlier?
1- What's this SOPA thing? 2- Used Game Distributors/Sales is NOT piracy.[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="SystemsGO"]
I'm not intending to be rude or anything... But who cares, really? With the whole SOPA thing going on the last thing I care about is piracy. Not to mention those numbers are entirely false and not including "used games sales" which is where the real piracy comes in to play. The never mentioned piracy, or pirates such as used game distributors and customers.
SystemsGO
In a way, yes it is. The developers or publishers get no benefits from it, and without that retail game sales would go up by leaps and bounds thus more profits for them and much less complaining done by them, and no more stupid things like "SOPA" will happen. Sure, actual piracy numbers might increase too, but not as drastically as actual sales would. I can't link in the forums, because I forgot how so do you mind if I message you this sopa video I watched earlier?
True that the developer/publisher doesn't get any benefits from it, but it's hardly considered piracy (since the original copy was bought legally and the publisher DID get the revenue from it).
From your perspective then everyone driving a used car is a pirate that stole the car?
MW 3 will win easily, C2 just had more time.
Fans buy it, so it has a lot of sales and haters pirate it, so it has a lot of pirated copies.
[QUOTE="SystemsGO"]
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] 1- What's this SOPA thing? 2- Used Game Distributors/Sales is NOT piracy.FelipeInside
In a way, yes it is. The developers or publishers get no benefits from it, and without that retail game sales would go up by leaps and bounds thus more profits for them and much less complaining done by them, and no more stupid things like "SOPA" will happen. Sure, actual piracy numbers might increase too, but not as drastically as actual sales would. I can't link in the forums, because I forgot how so do you mind if I message you this sopa video I watched earlier?
True that the developer/publisher doesn't get any benefits from it, but it's hardly considered piracy (since the original copy was bought legally and the publisher DID get the revenue from it).
From your perspective then everyone driving a used car is a pirate that stole the car?
While it's the same concept it's dealt with on entire opposite ends of the spectrum and certainly you're aware of that. You don't see car dealerships complaining about used car sales, or stolen car numbers. But what you do see is constant incessant complaining and blacklisting of PC gamers. For that we're given a bad name, but it happens on all fronts. Instead PC gamers are the only ones getting any of the punishment for it. It's as if we did it all on our own. But really if they would outlaw used game sales actual sales would go up far more than if they outlawed piracy. It's a completely reasonable idea, and they do complain also about used games sales hurting their sales, but what can you do? I mean, the game sometimes says in the manual not to even let your friend borrow, but you can take it to Gamestop and sell it for 20 bucks instead? That doesn't seem fair, reasonable or logical.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]
[QUOTE="SystemsGO"]
In a way, yes it is. The developers or publishers get no benefits from it, and without that retail game sales would go up by leaps and bounds thus more profits for them and much less complaining done by them, and no more stupid things like "SOPA" will happen. Sure, actual piracy numbers might increase too, but not as drastically as actual sales would. I can't link in the forums, because I forgot how so do you mind if I message you this sopa video I watched earlier?SystemsGO
True that the developer/publisher doesn't get any benefits from it, but it's hardly considered piracy (since the original copy was bought legally and the publisher DID get the revenue from it).
From your perspective then everyone driving a used car is a pirate that stole the car?
While it's the same concept it's dealt with on entire opposite ends of the spectrum and certainly you're aware of that. You don't see car dealerships complaining about used car sales, or stolen car numbers. But what you do see is constant incessant complaining and blacklisting of PC gamers. For that we're given a bad name, but it happens on all fronts. Instead PC gamers are the only ones getting any of the punishment for it. It's as if we did it all on our own. But really if they would outlaw used game sales actual sales would go up far more than if they outlawed piracy. It's a completely reasonable idea, and they do complain also about used games sales hurting their sales, but what can you do? I mean, the game sometimes says in the manual not to even let your friend borrow, but you can take it to Gamestop and sell it for 20 bucks instead? That doesn't seem fair, reasonable or logical.
Or maybe not cause less people would buy new games knowing they couldn't sell it?
But anyway, on PC these days it's REALLY hard to sell a game. Most games are tied to an account or use limited number of online DRM.
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]LOL, I just watched the SOPA video you sent me (thanks). The American Government trying to ruin something.... nothing new in my books. I believe some countries (China I think) already have that.SystemsGO
It's 20 minutes long. You have finished it yet. :)
I've seen a video like it (or maybe it was that one).I am quite shocked to see The Witcher or Crysis 2 be "the" most pirated game and not Skyrim ... but then again data in numbers on the internet is mostly false, so meh :P
Code135
Skyrim hasn't been out as long as those two titles so maybe that's the reason?
I don't think that would happen. Sure some people would do that, but as a gamer why would you stop buying games based on not being able to sell them? I play PC games, I can't conveniently take my game anywhere and sell it legally, that hasn't stopped me from buying games, or forced me into pirating games. I still buy them. Just when I'm done with them I give them to friends(which is illegal)
I've heard a lot of people that can only buy games cause they are able to earn back some of the money by selling it, but like I said...it's getting harder and harder. I don't know if giving them to a friend is illegal, u are just giving away ur license.I don't think that would happen. Sure some people would do that, but as a gamer why would you stop buying games based on not being able to sell them? I play PC games, I can't conveniently take my game anywhere and sell it legally, that hasn't stopped me from buying games, or forced me into pirating games. I still buy them. Just when I'm done with them I give them to friends(which is illegal)
SystemsGO
To me used games sells and used car sells are different. If you steal a car you get in trouble. If you say "ya I stole that car" you get arrested and charged with theft. If you steal a car from in front of someones house or from a dealership it is considered wrong, people will look down on you, and you can go to jail. If you download a game the punishment will not be the same. If I say "I downloaded Crysis 2 without paying" chances are your not going to get in trouble. Someon on my face book who bought skyrim on 360 posted how she was downloading skyrim on a torrent site because she wanted to have it for pc too and even posted the link to the torrent site. I'm no law expert but if Bethesta or the police saw the post they couldn't arrest her right? But if she posted "I stole this car" and the owner or the cops saw it then she would be arrested. So thats why I agree that used games sells are worse then piracy. If anything the developers should get a portion of the sale plus with cars its something more people need and people will always be buying new cars to look cool and because they want something that runs better. With games there are people who have no problem buying used games only. As for the argument that pirates will buy if you show them its worth their money or show them it is sometihng they will want to spend their money on, that always isn't the case. I beleive that majority of pirates will still pirate no matter what and come up with any excuse no matter how stupid. Case in point is the new shonen jump alpha. When that launches later this month its only going to be 2 weeks behind the japanese release and its going to have one piece, naruto and bleach for only 63 cents an issue. Now to me thats a really good deal and even though I buy the one piece grahpic novels when they come out, I'm stopping reading the scans because I now have a legal way to read the current chapters of one piece. Now I bet you anything majority of the people who are pirating the one piece, naruto, and bleach manga now are still going to do so, why? They are going to say things such as "its 2 weeks behind the japanese release and I don't want to wait, I can't afford 63 cents a week, I don't like viz's translations, it should be free, if I was in japan I could go into a manga shop and read it free, i don't like the format, the sound effects aren't in katakana, etc" So thats why I hold entertainment to a different standard than cars.
Just because laws are stronger on one case than the other, doesn't make stealing games different or any better/worse. STEALING is STEALING. Be it a car, a game or a mandarin from the grocery shop. As for ur friend, I really wish I could report her from Facebook... it would put a smile on my face :)To me used games sells and used car sells are different. If you steal a car you get in trouble. If you say "ya I stole that car" you get arrested and charged with theft. If you steal a car from in front of someones house or from a dealership it is considered wrong, people will look down on you, and you can go to jail. If you download a game the punishment will not be the same. If I say "I downloaded Crysis 2 without paying" chances are your not going to get in trouble. Someon on my face book who bought skyrim on 360 posted how she was downloading skyrim on a torrent site because she wanted to have it for pc too and even posted the link to the torrent site. I'm no law expert but if Bethesta or the police saw the post they couldn't arrest her right? But if she posted "I stole this car" and the owner or the cops saw it then she would be arrested. So thats why I agree that used games sells are worse then piracy. If anything the developers should get a portion of the sale plus with cars its something more people need and people will always be buying new cars to look cool and because they want something that runs better. With games there are people who have no problem buying used games only. As for the argument that pirates will buy if you show them its worth their money or show them it is sometihng they will want to spend their money on, that always isn't the case. I beleive that majority of pirates will still pirate no matter what and come up with any excuse no matter how stupid. Case in point is the new shonen jump alpha. When that launches later this month its only going to be 2 weeks behind the japanese release and its going to have one piece, naruto and bleach for only 63 cents an issue. Now to me thats a really good deal and even though I buy the one piece grahpic novels when they come out, I'm stopping reading the scans because I now have a legal way to read the current chapters of one piece. Now I bet you anything majority of the people who are pirating the one piece, naruto, and bleach manga now are still going to do so, why? They are going to say things such as "its 2 weeks behind the japanese release and I don't want to wait, I can't afford 63 cents a week, I don't like viz's translations, it should be free, if I was in japan I could go into a manga shop and read it free, i don't like the format, the sound effects aren't in katakana, etc" So thats why I hold entertainment to a different standard than cars.
toddx77
[QUOTE="toddx77"]Just because laws are stronger on one case than the other, doesn't make stealing games different or any better/worse. STEALING is STEALING. Be it a car, a game or a mandarin from the grocery shop. As for ur friend, I really wish I could report her from Facebook... it would put a smile on my face :)To me used games sells and used car sells are different. If you steal a car you get in trouble. If you say "ya I stole that car" you get arrested and charged with theft. If you steal a car from in front of someones house or from a dealership it is considered wrong, people will look down on you, and you can go to jail. If you download a game the punishment will not be the same. If I say "I downloaded Crysis 2 without paying" chances are your not going to get in trouble. Someon on my face book who bought skyrim on 360 posted how she was downloading skyrim on a torrent site because she wanted to have it for pc too and even posted the link to the torrent site. I'm no law expert but if Bethesta or the police saw the post they couldn't arrest her right? But if she posted "I stole this car" and the owner or the cops saw it then she would be arrested. So thats why I agree that used games sells are worse then piracy. If anything the developers should get a portion of the sale plus with cars its something more people need and people will always be buying new cars to look cool and because they want something that runs better. With games there are people who have no problem buying used games only. As for the argument that pirates will buy if you show them its worth their money or show them it is sometihng they will want to spend their money on, that always isn't the case. I beleive that majority of pirates will still pirate no matter what and come up with any excuse no matter how stupid. Case in point is the new shonen jump alpha. When that launches later this month its only going to be 2 weeks behind the japanese release and its going to have one piece, naruto and bleach for only 63 cents an issue. Now to me thats a really good deal and even though I buy the one piece grahpic novels when they come out, I'm stopping reading the scans because I now have a legal way to read the current chapters of one piece. Now I bet you anything majority of the people who are pirating the one piece, naruto, and bleach manga now are still going to do so, why? They are going to say things such as "its 2 weeks behind the japanese release and I don't want to wait, I can't afford 63 cents a week, I don't like viz's translations, it should be free, if I was in japan I could go into a manga shop and read it free, i don't like the format, the sound effects aren't in katakana, etc" So thats why I hold entertainment to a different standard than cars.
FelipeInside
I wasn't trying to say one was worse, stealing a game or car is just as bad. I was trying to say that because stealing a game digitally has less little to no legal impacts compared to stealing car, I think it is fair to say used games sales are wrong while used car sells are not, but I see your point too. When she posted that I was very upset she actually put the torrent site. She said she was tired of playing it on her 360 so I was like "if you don't want to play it on your 360 anymore than why didn't you just trade in your 360 copy and put the credit toward the pc version?" She didn't answer lol.
[QUOTE="DanielDust"]Giving your license is illegal, if you're going at it without any subjectivity, you don't have a right to share your personal license, when you use the key for the first time, you officially activate your limited and personal license, you have no right other than to use it for your personal interests, limited to your personal gain from playing that piece of software. I am not against lending your games to friends (even if I'd never do it), but I consider re-selling illegal and as bad as piracy, and it actually is.FelipeInsideYou can't say selling a used game is AS BAD as piracy. Piracy the dev/pub doesn't get ANY benefit and even suffers on piracy numbers Used game sale, the game was ORIGINALLY BOUGHT LEGALLY so the dev/pub got the sale... and it doesn't show on any piracy numbers.
You can argue the point that an original copy of the game was bouth all you want, but a second copy was not bought while meanwhile that same game bought from someone else is being sold for an outrageous ammount all profited by Gastop or some other used games distributors. In the end it works like this, they COULD have sold 2 copies of the game, but instead they personally sold one, because some dimwit sold their used copy to a store, who then sold it to some shmuck. It's apples and apples really. They lose either way you look at it, be it from piracy or used games sales. However, one front is larger than the other and that is the used games sales industry undoubtedly. Therefore, used games is taking a bigger cut of their money than piracy is. Therefore it's much worse for their business than piracy is. Not to mention, you can still argue the fact that most pirates are simply downloading it to try it out before actually purchasing it. Not to mention in some cases a disc could have an error, but you have a valid key for the game so you download it from a torrent site. They will still count that as an accumulation of piracy as the end result, when the story is never fully or truthfully told. It's just numbers counted, without any back story. Personally, I've had disc issues and had to resort to downloading a torrent, but I ultimately used my valid CD key. But still, in that case I'm a pirate, right?
Just because laws are stronger on one case than the other, doesn't make stealing games different or any better/worse. STEALING is STEALING. Be it a car, a game or a mandarin from the grocery shop. As for ur friend, I really wish I could report her from Facebook... it would put a smile on my face :)[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="toddx77"]
To me used games sells and used car sells are different. If you steal a car you get in trouble. If you say "ya I stole that car" you get arrested and charged with theft. If you steal a car from in front of someones house or from a dealership it is considered wrong, people will look down on you, and you can go to jail. If you download a game the punishment will not be the same. If I say "I downloaded Crysis 2 without paying" chances are your not going to get in trouble. Someon on my face book who bought skyrim on 360 posted how she was downloading skyrim on a torrent site because she wanted to have it for pc too and even posted the link to the torrent site. I'm no law expert but if Bethesta or the police saw the post they couldn't arrest her right? But if she posted "I stole this car" and the owner or the cops saw it then she would be arrested. So thats why I agree that used games sells are worse then piracy. If anything the developers should get a portion of the sale plus with cars its something more people need and people will always be buying new cars to look cool and because they want something that runs better. With games there are people who have no problem buying used games only. As for the argument that pirates will buy if you show them its worth their money or show them it is sometihng they will want to spend their money on, that always isn't the case. I beleive that majority of pirates will still pirate no matter what and come up with any excuse no matter how stupid. Case in point is the new shonen jump alpha. When that launches later this month its only going to be 2 weeks behind the japanese release and its going to have one piece, naruto and bleach for only 63 cents an issue. Now to me thats a really good deal and even though I buy the one piece grahpic novels when they come out, I'm stopping reading the scans because I now have a legal way to read the current chapters of one piece. Now I bet you anything majority of the people who are pirating the one piece, naruto, and bleach manga now are still going to do so, why? They are going to say things such as "its 2 weeks behind the japanese release and I don't want to wait, I can't afford 63 cents a week, I don't like viz's translations, it should be free, if I was in japan I could go into a manga shop and read it free, i don't like the format, the sound effects aren't in katakana, etc" So thats why I hold entertainment to a different standard than cars.
toddx77
I wasn't trying to say one was worse, stealing a game or car is just as bad. I was trying to say that because stealing a game digitally has less little to no legal impacts compared to stealing car, I think it is fair to say used games sales are wrong while used car sells are not, but I see your point too. When she posted that I was very upset she actually put the torrent site. She said she was tired of playing it on her 360 so I was like "if you don't want to play it on your 360 anymore than why didn't you just trade in your 360 copy and put the credit toward the pc version?" She didn't answer lol.
Do you recall how serious they were taking MP3 piracy? When someone got caught doing that they were having to pay thousands upon thousands of dollars for one single song. In some cases people had to do that for over 200-300 songs in one hearing. So, if you ask me that kind of punishment is actually much worse than walking into the store it's self and taking the CD, or walking into a car dealership and driving off. If you drive off with a stolen car you face jail time, point blank. If you steal mp3s, or games you face large lump sums of cash being forfeighted from your check stub every year until it's paid off. I'd rather be in jail than broke and miserable forever. Also in some cases if you don't pay those fines you will pay them with jail time.
[QUOTE="toddx77"]
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] Just because laws are stronger on one case than the other, doesn't make stealing games different or any better/worse. STEALING is STEALING. Be it a car, a game or a mandarin from the grocery shop. As for ur friend, I really wish I could report her from Facebook... it would put a smile on my face :)SystemsGO
I wasn't trying to say one was worse, stealing a game or car is just as bad. I was trying to say that because stealing a game digitally has less little to no legal impacts compared to stealing car, I think it is fair to say used games sales are wrong while used car sells are not, but I see your point too. When she posted that I was very upset she actually put the torrent site. She said she was tired of playing it on her 360 so I was like "if you don't want to play it on your 360 anymore than why didn't you just trade in your 360 copy and put the credit toward the pc version?" She didn't answer lol.
Do you recall how serious they were taking MP3 piracy? When someone got caught doing that they were having to pay thousands upon thousands of dollars for one single song. In some cases people had to do that for over 200-300 songs in one hearing. So, if you ask me that kind of punishment is actually much worse than walking into the store it's self and taking the CD, or walking into a car dealership and driving off. If you drive off with a stolen car you face jail time, point blank. If you steal mp3s, or games you face large lump sums of cash being forfeighted from your check stub every year until it's paid off. I'd rather be in jail than broke and miserable forever. Also in some cases if you don't pay those fines you will pay them with jail time.
Now that you mention it I kind of remember that. Wasn't that common in the early 2000's? Is there any reason why pirates today can't be caught like those MP3 users were? If we could catch people downloading games and movies offline than maybe the industry would be doing better. I know half those people downloading naruto probably have so many trojans on their computer for anyone to trace their IP address.
Now that you mention it I kind of remember that. Wasn't that common in the early 2000's? Is there any reason why pirates today can't be caught like those MP3 users were? If we could catch people downloading games and movies offline than maybe the industry would be doing better. I know half those people downloading naruto probably have so many trojans on their computer for anyone to trace their IP address.toddx77The music industry was being somewhat haphazard about it, as was the movie industry. The vidoe game industry sat back and watched, and learned from their mistakes for the most part. They also historically have bigger fish to fry in going after third-world 'factories' that specialize in copying their games to sell in physical markets. But yeah, they've also done stuff about this quietly in the past. Activision was rolling around suing people in 2004-2006 or so, with keeping quiet about being sued being one of the conditions to settle IIRC. Given that most people are blindly installing a piece of software made by the people they're 'pirating' from in the first place, they can do phone-homes and the like to narrow down who's actually using the software.
First thing first...
If a game costs 1$...and 100 people buy it, the pub/devs will get 100$ for those 100 copy's sold...lets say that everyone from those 100 people sell their copy to another 100 people then those people sell it again to another 100 and so on...How many time u can resell a game whicreally?lets say u can resell it 10 times so 10x100=1000...so 1000 people will play a game for wich the publisher got payed 100$...Now with pirated copy's of the game is like this: 1 copy of the original game,wich is 1$, ends up in the hands of a group like Ski****,Rel***** or RAZ** **** and they crack it....so they will release a cracked game which everyone can download play....So the publisher/devs get only 1$ from 1 copy sold but millions of people play that cracked game...SO WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
Piracy is the black plague of Movie/Music/Game Industry!
Second thing...they are not including online file hosting websites in as a source of pirated material...sorry Fellipe but the link u provided is equal to 0...the numbers there are false...the numbers are at least double...Sites like RapidShare and Fileserve Filesonic Megaupload have been for years now the primary upload spot of cracked games...This sites have millions of visitors each day...They have this numbers because the people who repack/re-archive the cracked games dont use torrents anymore...they upload the games to this file hosting sites...
[QUOTE="DanielDust"]Giving your license is illegal, if you're going at it without any subjectivity, you don't have a right to share your personal license, when you use the key for the first time, you officially activate your limited and personal license, you have no right other than to use it for your personal interests, limited to your personal gain from playing that piece of software. I am not against lending your games to friends (even if I'd never do it), but I consider re-selling illegal and as bad as piracy, and it actually is.FelipeInsideYou can't say selling a used game is AS BAD as piracy. Piracy the dev/pub doesn't get ANY benefit and even suffers on piracy numbers Used game sale, the game was ORIGINALLY BOUGHT LEGALLY so the dev/pub got the sale... and it doesn't show on any piracy numbers. You sold what isn't yours to sell, the way you put it, it's plain and simple, piracy, but worse, somebody is making money from something they do not own rights to, it's in fact, worse than piracy.
You're right, worse isn't as bad as bad, it's worse, I just didn't want to state how serious it was in my first post, I just grouped it together with simple piracy which is not.
1- What's this SOPA thing? 2- Used Game Distributors/Sales is NOT piracy.[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="SystemsGO"]
I'm not intending to be rude or anything... But who cares, really? With the whole SOPA thing going on the last thing I care about is piracy. Not to mention those numbers are entirely false and not including "used games sales" which is where the real piracy comes in to play. The never mentioned piracy, or pirates such as used game distributors and customers.
SystemsGO
In a way, yes it is. The developers or publishers get no benefits from it, and without that retail game sales would go up by leaps and bounds thus more profits for them and much less complaining done by them, and no more stupid things like "SOPA" will happen. Sure, actual piracy numbers might increase too, but not as drastically as actual sales would. I can't link in the forums, because I forgot how so do you mind if I message you this sopa video I watched earlier?
Did you really come in here just to pick a fight again? Your argument is flawed and weak, no matter how many times you come into threads to push it. Buying and selling used items in no way, shape, or form is even comparable to stealing them. Used games are not hurting pc gaming. Closed minded, unrealistic, and brainwashed gamers like yourself are. If you want to continue to argue about it go back to the other thread. If selling used games is illegal, so are libraries and rentals. /discussion.
And we all wonder why we keep getting ridiculous DRM.
So you're comparing licenses with personal goods, cool, you really ended this discussion, because what you said is so random you can't really discuss further. Just so you know next time, movies, music discs, books, cars, houses, etc (since that's where you went with your arguments) is something entirely different from games. These things are do not replicate., games are different, they're do not replicate, lend or sell. Instead of insulting others take a look at how clueless you are to this whole thing, close minded, unrealistic and brainwashed by personal beliefs, Mr. Bean.DanielDustWhy should games be any different? When you get a game they give you a cd key that only you can use. A car uses a key. Should you be able to distribute it? It is absurd that games get special treatment like they do. They are a good just like everything else. They only replicate because developers never let us have ownership of the product that we pay our money for. Games do not deserve special treatment, which is why they should be compared to other goods.
EDIT: To elaborate, selling a used video game is still significantly better than piracy because they made the original sale, whereas in piracy there would be two missing sale, however, a personal license is yours while you are using it. In a game like dead spaces case, I assume you need the disc to play it. When selling the disc, you surrender the right to your license more or less, as you will not be able to play the game without first cracking it. At this point it becomes piracy. A license is only attached to us because we allow it to be. If a tv came with a user license that prevented people from selling it they would become outraged. Video games should be treated no differently. Selling a used game is okay, but you surrender the right to play it once you sell it, otherwise it just becomes piracy, even if you paid for it originally.
And we all wonder why we keep getting ridiculous DRM.
airshocker
That does nothing but hurt the people that actually pay for the game. DRM stops pirates a day or two.
[QUOTE="airshocker"]
And we all wonder why we keep getting ridiculous DRM.
James161324
That does nothing but hurt the people that actually pay for the game. DRM stops pirates a day or two.
Like the immortal pink scorpion. They got around that in no time flat.[QUOTE="SystemsGO"]
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"] 1- What's this SOPA thing? 2- Used Game Distributors/Sales is NOT piracy.GuitarPAaron
In a way, yes it is. The developers or publishers get no benefits from it, and without that retail game sales would go up by leaps and bounds thus more profits for them and much less complaining done by them, and no more stupid things like "SOPA" will happen. Sure, actual piracy numbers might increase too, but not as drastically as actual sales would. I can't link in the forums, because I forgot how so do you mind if I message you this sopa video I watched earlier?
Did you really come in here just to pick a fight again? Your argument is flawed and weak, no matter how many times you come into threads to push it. Buying and selling used items in no way, shape, or form is even comparable to stealing them. Used games are not hurting pc gaming. Closed minded, unrealistic, and brainwashed gamers like yourself are. If you want to continue to argue about it go back to the other thread. If selling used games is illegal, so are libraries and rentals. /discussion.
Oh okay, after checking around on the forums I see now why you called me stupid in another thread. That opened my eyes a great deal, in turn I just realized you're the stupid one. You keep telling me that my argument is flawed or invalid.. But where in this conversation do you provide anything of substance other than complaining about me? So really, am I the stupid one? Will you present a more "Valid" argument for me to see your standards? Until you do that, you're the one who is stupid. In this thread alone there are several people that share my stance on used game sales, but it's only my text you quote and it's only me you bother with? What does that solve? Is there a point behind it, or did I really just hurt your feelings and get under your skin that bad? Next, please. Grow up.
Also, in case you lack basic comprehension skills this thread was the perfect place to speak about piracy and used games sales and the correlation and comparisons between the two. But since you're too busy reading only what I say, you wouldn't have figured that out would you? Especially considering the Title is about piracy and all. Which used game sales is essentially the same thing as far as the developers are concerned and many have spoke out about it being an issue. So once you explain to me where my argument is flawed I'll go ahead and take your word for it, if you somehow muster of the brain power to present to me something with any substance at all, but I'm doubting that you can since you only seem concerned with insulting me.
Also, I don't know in what country sharing a different opinion and stating that opinion leaving it open for a friendly debate or comparison of view points is considered "Picking a fight". You could argue that the debate it's self is arguing, but when you in no way display any harsh feelings I see there being no issue. Forums are generally comprised of a myriad of different opinions and view points, so it seems to me that voicing those things is kind of the thing to do, right? Plus, who knows.. Maybe between what I say, and what someone else says back to me either one of us could embrace a diverse opinion and learn something actually insightful, but I supposed that concept is too broad for you. It seems like you're the one trying to pick the fight here, not me.
[QUOTE="airshocker"]
And we all wonder why we keep getting ridiculous DRM.
James161324
That does nothing but hurt the people that actually pay for the game. DRM stops pirates a day or two.
Agreed, DRM is useless and hurts us. Better service is generally provided form the pirates. I would assume though that something like DRM is a trial and error formula. They're going to continue to enforce DRM and impose upon us with it until they find the formula that actually works without also sacrificing quality. When that day comes I'll be happy for one reason.
Either way, enough of the silly stuff. Both things like piracy and used game sales are hurting the industy with a collaborative effort. There is no specific way to determine which one way is the most hurtful. However, I'll simplify how I've come to the opinion I share.
Simply put: If you don't own those rights, but you take it upon yourself to sale those rights to someone else are you in theory pirating those rights?
Oh okay, after checking around on the forums I see now why you called me stupid in another thread. That opened my eyes a great deal, in turn I just realized you're the stupid one. You keep telling me that my argument is flawed or invalid.. But where in this conversation do you provide anything of substance other than complaining about me? So really, am I the stupid one? Will you present a more "Valid" argument for me to see your standards? Until you do that, you're the one who is stupid. In this thread alone there are several people that share my stance on used game sales, but it's only my text you quote and it's only me you bother with? What does that solve? Is there a point behind it, or did I really just hurt your feelings and get under your skin that bad? Next, please. Grow up.
Also, in case you lack basic comprehension skills this thread was the perfect place to speak about piracy and used games sales and the correlation and comparisons between the two. But since you're too busy reading only what I say, you wouldn't have figured that out would you? Especially considering the Title is about piracy and all. Which used game sales is essentially the same thing as far as the developers are concerned and many have spoke out about it being an issue. So once you explain to me where my argument is flawed I'll go ahead and take your word for it, if you somehow muster of the brain power to present to me something with any substance at all, but I'm doubting that you can since you only seem concerned with insulting me.SystemsGO
It isn't just you that I am disagreeing with. And my post in the other thread obviously needed more clarification, which was a mistake on my part. You are not stupid. Very very strong in your beliefs yes, which is why this discussion will ultimately lead nowhere. We are both stubborn as hell. You have just brought up how buying things used is significantly worse than stealing them in numerous threads now in the last few days, to the point where it looks like any slightly related thing becomes your soapbox.
The point is that you and the other people also supporting your opinion, are saying that software needs to be treated differently from everything else that we buy, because of the software license. There are only licenses because the companies say there are. When you sell a game, you also need to surrender your license to the game. There are tons of areas of the economy that sell used things, and quite frankly buying everything new is impractical. As a student I can say that buying all of my textbooks new is absolutely impractical. My books this quarter would have been 700 dollars had I not bought them used. If you buy a used game, EA Games wont recieve any money from the resale. If you buy a used car, toyota isn't going to see a dime. The man who built your house isn't getting money from every time it is sold over the next hundred years or however long it lasts. The economy runs on both new and used sales, and video games are not excluded from this, nor should they be. They are a good and should be treated like it. When I buy a movie, I should be able to watch it at my house with family in the room. We should not have to buy 6 copies of the movie for everyone watching it.
Either way, enough of the silly stuff. Both things like piracy and used game sales are hurting the industy with a collaborative effort. There is no specific way to determine which one way is the most hurtful. However, I'll simplify how I've come to the opinion I share.
Simply put: If you don't own those rights, but you take it upon yourself to sale those rights to someone else are you in theory pirating those rights?SystemsGO
Agreed that they both hurt it, and where our opinions appear to differ is at the license. When you buy a game, I believe that you buy the rights to the license as well. You should not be renting it. The license should be yours to do what you want with it. Agree to disagree. I have been a chucklef***. I am fully aware of this and for that I do apologize.
I don't understand how people are getting so upset over used game sales. If you buy a physical copy of a game you own that particular copy of the game. Microsoft owns my copy of Halo as much as Dodge owns my truck - not at all. Microsoft maintains copyright protection over Halo just like how a musician maintains rights to a song. All this means is Microsoft can stop replication of the software by other parties, just like how the Foo Fighters can prevent another band from releasing a cover of "Everlong". When you sell your copy of a game, you are forfeiting your right to use that software - if this were illegal, stores like Gamestop would have been shut down years ago and anyone who has ever sold an old console and the games they had for it could be prosecuted.
I saw a response earlier saying that used car sales are different than used game sales because car dealers still get revenue from the used car sale. That is exactly the same as a store selling used games. Ford doesn't get squat if you buy a 1990 Ford Taurus these days since dealerships generally speaking are not owned by the manufacturer.
When talking about PC games in particular it gets a little more complicated, since a lot of games these days are tied to an account which allows the game to be downloaded - think about Skyrim being tied to Steam. All Bethesda has done is prevent me from forfeiting my right to use the software. Used PC game sales seems like a moot point for discussion anyway, since I don't remember the last time I saw a used copy of a PC game for sale in a store.
[QUOTE="James161324"]
[QUOTE="airshocker"]
And we all wonder why we keep getting ridiculous DRM.
SystemsGO
That does nothing but hurt the people that actually pay for the game. DRM stops pirates a day or two.
Agreed, DRM is useless and hurts us. Better service is generally provided form the pirates. I would assume though that something like DRM is a trial and error formula. They're going to continue to enforce DRM and impose upon us with it until they find the formula that actually works without also sacrificing quality. When that day comes I'll be happy for one reason.
It never will though. Hackers will always get past what ever they try. EA thought they had something right with battlelog, that was put out with a crack within a week. The only way piracy will slow down if games get cheaper. Which will not happen.
I lol @ those who pirated bf3 and mw3 for playing the sp. Developers probably bother into including an sp campaign just for making them realise that they shouldn't do that again :P
Lots of people play CoD for the SP campaign, and I agree with them. It's fairly long and fun. Not everyone wants to play MP u know.I lol @ those who pirated bf3 and mw3 for playing the sp. Developers probably bother into including an sp campaign just for making them realise that they shouldn't do that again :P
alan_carter
I don't understand how people are getting so upset over used game sales. If you buy a physical copy of a game you own that particular copy of the game. Microsoft owns my copy of Halo as much as Dodge owns my truck - not at all. Microsoft maintains copyright protection over Halo just like how a musician maintains rights to a song. All this means is Microsoft can stop replication of the software by other parties, just like how the Foo Fighters can prevent another band from releasing a cover of "Everlong". When you sell your copy of a game, you are forfeiting your right to use that software - if this were illegal, stores like Gamestop would have been shut down years ago and anyone who has ever sold an old console and the games they had for it could be prosecuted.
I saw a response earlier saying that used car sales are different than used game sales because car dealers still get revenue from the used car sale. That is exactly the same as a store selling used games. Ford doesn't get squat if you buy a 1990 Ford Taurus these days since dealerships generally speaking are not owned by the manufacturer.
When talking about PC games in particular it gets a little more complicated, since a lot of games these days are tied to an account which allows the game to be downloaded - think about Skyrim being tied to Steam. All Bethesda has done is prevent me from forfeiting my right to use the software. Used PC game sales seems like a moot point for discussion anyway, since I don't remember the last time I saw a used copy of a PC game for sale in a store.
mudflaps2001
2nd hand pc game sale is almost dead thesedays, on stores u'll probly find old titles, as u said, most games are tied to a drm. Console side is falling soon cos friendly companies such as EA want to put an end to it with the garbage of online passes and all that.
I remember a bunch of friends, who got years ago 2nd hand bf2 for playing with me for like 10 dollars.There's no harm in doing that, the game store gets some profit, the user who paid for the game license gets some some money back, but the company doesn't get ANYTHING. Maybe the guy who originally bought the game will invest that money in games from the same company, but thats not economically viable and trusty for em ^^
Btw Everlong is one of my fav foos song :D bit off-topic but just had to say it ^^
[QUOTE="alan_carter"]Lots of people play CoD for the SP campaign, and I agree with them. It's fairly long and fun. Not everyone wants to play MP u know. I bought old cods "til 4" for the campaign. Loved cod 2 sp, i even replayed it like 3-4 times. Sp was good, and mp was surprisingly fun, they stuck there, so that's the reason of my passiveness for the sp in these games.. on the battlefield side, they just included sp to rival cod. COPYCATSI lol @ those who pirated bf3 and mw3 for playing the sp. Developers probably bother into including an sp campaign just for making them realise that they shouldn't do that again :P
FelipeInside
[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="alan_carter"]Lots of people play CoD for the SP campaign, and I agree with them. It's fairly long and fun. Not everyone wants to play MP u know. I bought old cods "til 4" for the campaign. Loved cod 2 sp, i even replayed it like 3-4 times. Sp was good, and mp was surprisingly fun, they stuck there, so that's the reason of my passiveness for the sp in these games.. on the battlefield side, they just included sp to rival cod. COPYCATS Yes, BF3 SP was just there for a practice run.....it was a really poor campaign. CoD's MP has always been one of it's strong points, but they have always paid attention to the SP and Co-Op Campaigns.I lol @ those who pirated bf3 and mw3 for playing the sp. Developers probably bother into including an sp campaign just for making them realise that they shouldn't do that again :P
alan_carter
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