Anyone else finding the storytelling in SWTOR to be a little flat?

I've been playing SWTOR since the first day of early access and I was initially quite impressed by the way that BioWare managed to integrate story into an MMO.

But the more I play of the game the more I'm starting to feel that there are some severe limitations to the storytelling experience that are detracting from the experience.

Because SWTOR is an MMO it has to give up some of the usual tricks of telling a good story, such as letting you meaningfully change the world or making you feel like you're unique and special in the world.

At level 39 I'm also feeling that there is a real pacing issue with the main class story, as I'm spending several hours on side quests before I get to advance my main quest line. I suppose that this is both a limitation on the amount of content that BioWare could create and also to try to encourage you to go try other things, but as a big story fan it just really annoys the heck out of me.

I've also made a more detailed post about my issues with the storytelling over on my blog that you're welcome to check out.

Am I the only one that is almost wishing for a "single player mode" so they could just focus on playing through the story?

I've been playing SWTOR since the first day of early access and I was initially quite impressed by the way that BioWare managed to integrate story into an MMO.

But the more I play of the game the more I'm starting to feel that there are some severe limitations to the storytelling experience that are detracting from the experience.

Because SWTOR is an MMO it has to give up some of the usual tricks of telling a good story, such as letting you meaningfully change the world or making you feel like you're unique and special in the world.

At level 39 I'm also feeling that there is a real pacing issue with the main class story, as I'm spending several hours on side quests before I get to advance my main quest line. I suppose that this is both a limitation on the amount of content that BioWare could create and also to try to encourage you to go try other things, but as a big story fan it just really annoys the heck out of me.

I've also made a more detailed post about my issues with the storytelling over on my blog that you're welcome to check out.

Am I the only one that is almost wishing for a "single player mode" so they could just focus on playing through the story?

Technomancer82

No, you aren't. Throughout the beta I wanted them to just scrap it and make another KOTOR.

My main gripe, though, is the blandness of some of the stories. I've played every single character up to level 20, and some to 50, and the only memorable stories are the IA, BH, Sith Warrior, Sith Assassin, and Smuggler. The Trooper and both Jedi stories blow.

It's starting to show with the extreme imbalance on my server. Sith outnumber Republic three to one. I don't know how Bioware is going to fix that, but I sure am glad they don't have an open-world PvP system like WAR did. It would have been miserable.

No, the dialogue sucks. The voice acting sucks. They really screwed up big on the one thing they were doing different then other mmos.

No, the dialogue sucks. The voice acting sucks. They really screwed up big on the one thing they were doing different then other mmos.

Prexxus

At level 39 I'm also feeling that there is a real pacing issue with the main class story, as I'm spending several hours on side quests before I get to advance my main quest line. I suppose that this is both a limitation on the amount of content that BioWare could create and also to try to encourage you to go try other things, but as a big story fan it just really annoys the heck out of me..

Technomancer82

[QUOTE="Technomancer82"]

At level 39 I'm also feeling that there is a real pacing issue with the main class story, as I'm spending several hours on side quests before I get to advance my main quest line. I suppose that this is both a limitation on the amount of content that BioWare could create and also to try to encourage you to go try other things, but as a big story fan it just really annoys the heck out of me..

vfibsux

As for the topic. Pacing is natural....they don't want u to do the main storyline in 5 hours, that's what side quests are for (and it is an MMO remember).

EVERY RPG does this....you never just breeze thru the main storyline, you go off and do sidequests in the middle to level up and come back to the main inbetween.FelipeInside

The traditional Everquest-type gameplay just doesn't play along nicely with a focused storytelling experience and it's unfortunate BioWare didn't make any effort, at least outwardly, to create something that would fit their "Story first" focus better.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]
As for the topic. Pacing is natural....they don't want u to do the main storyline in 5 hours, that's what side quests are for (and it is an MMO remember).

EVERY RPG does this....you never just breeze thru the main storyline, you go off and do sidequests in the middle to level up and come back to the main inbetween.MadCat46

The traditional Everquest-type gameplay just doesn't play along nicely with a focused storytelling experience and it's unfortunate BioWare didn't make any effort, at least outwardly, to create something that would fit their "Story first" focus better.

Exactly, but this happens in SP RPG games as well.

Hell, it even happens in TV Shows, where you have Episodes in between which have nothing to do with the main plot. Books too.

I just basically take interest in the side stories as well....so I'm happy and entertained with both the main story and side ones.

[QUOTE="MadCat46"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]
As for the topic. Pacing is natural....they don't want u to do the main storyline in 5 hours, that's what side quests are for (and it is an MMO remember).

EVERY RPG does this....you never just breeze thru the main storyline, you go off and do sidequests in the middle to level up and come back to the main inbetween.FelipeInside

The traditional Everquest-type gameplay just doesn't play along nicely with a focused storytelling experience and it's unfortunate BioWare didn't make any effort, at least outwardly, to create something that would fit their "Story first" focus better.

Exactly, but this happens in SP RPG games as well.

Hell, it even happens in TV Shows, where you have Episodes in between which have nothing to do with the main plot. Books too.

I just basically take interest in the side stories as well....so I'm happy and entertained with both the main story and side ones.

But you're not paying a monthly subscription for single player rpgs.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

[QUOTE="MadCat46"] That's one of the main reasons every MMO's story feels flat and uninteresting though, there's to much forced detraction from the main story into completely unrelated aspects (Videos games in general really though it's to a lesser extent in single player games). Any sense of urgency or any momentum built up by the plot is completely ground to a halt. You have to hold off on finding out what happens next in that important section of the plot to help out a couple of irrelevant farmers and city guards with their innane tasks because you need another level or two in order to make it through the next section of the story.

The traditional Everquest-type gameplay just doesn't play along nicely with a focused storytelling experience and it's unfortunate BioWare didn't make any effort, at least outwardly, to create something that would fit their "Story first" focus better.

xLittlekillx

Exactly, but this happens in SP RPG games as well.

Hell, it even happens in TV Shows, where you have Episodes in between which have nothing to do with the main plot. Books too.

I just basically take interest in the side stories as well....so I'm happy and entertained with both the main story and side ones.

But you're not paying a monthly subscription for single player rpgs.

Try both sides, I think the story telling is fantastic.

Level 26 Jedi KNight and Level 15 Sith Iquisitor.

Both sides have good stories, very different, but both enjoyable so far for me.

Voice acting, story, atmosphere, sound design are all very well done. most mmos by this time I am bored of the grind and gameplay, but with SWTOR the story really keeps me interested and wanting to play more.

MMO and Storytelling do not mix well, as Bioware might find out soon. They really should just have made a single player game.

I found the Imperial Agent and Sith Inquisitor (before it becomes ghostbusters in SPACE) to be decent. The rest were quite bad, especially the Jedis. Choices and consequences are typical of bioware quality (in other words non-existant). In every BW game since Mass Effect what you say during conversations have no affect except for a line or 2, after which the NPC progresses the conversation in his way no matter what you said.

Exactly, but this happens in SP RPG games as well.

Hell, it even happens in TV Shows, where you have Episodes in between which have nothing to do with the main plot. Books too.

I just basically take interest in the side stories as well....so I'm happy and entertained with both the main story and side ones.

FelipeInside

Well, yeah. That's why I said it happens with story focused games in general, just to a lesser extent in single player games because they typically employ some form of level scaling which means level isn't as much a barrier. And it's good that you're able to take interest and maintain it with both the main story and side stories, that however doesn't really take away from the fact that it is terrible storytelling and doing something which equates to terrible storytelling is a no-no when the thing your touting the most about your product is story.

Like I said it's incredibly disappointing that with all that money being thrown around and the rather unique approach they seemed to want to take that they wouldn't build the game to be more complimentary to that approach and instead opted for the same old same old which runs in the opposite direction of that approach, it shows a lack of vision and balls. Gah ToR could have been unbelieveably amazing and unique if someone in a leadership role over at BW/EA/LA had a head on his shoulder and a pair in his pants. Such a waste.

I am level 42 and at this point am skipping all the voice acting all together except the class story, i have like 4 or 5 days played, It was cool at first but it is boring now to have all the pointless quests voiced. I play on darth sion, the server is full yet it is a total pain in the ass to get a grp for anything at all, and I am a healer. It needs a grp finder, it also needs a dual spec, respecting is not cheap after doing it a few times and its lame to be stuck in healing spec ALL THE TIME when my character can do both. Its a ok mmo, but so far the mmo part has been lacking everyone is soloing. To be honest I was enjoying DCUO this soon after release more then this. The instances are also so far not very good, yes wow is still better here, which is sad because it is a old game at this point. All in all i can see this being something great IF THEY CHANGE some things and add good instances, because so far they have been lame.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Exactly, but this happens in SP RPG games as well.

Hell, it even happens in TV Shows, where you have Episodes in between which have nothing to do with the main plot. Books too.

I just basically take interest in the side stories as well....so I'm happy and entertained with both the main story and side ones.

MadCat46

Well, yeah. That's why I said it happens with story focused games in general, just to a lesser extent in single player games because they typically employ some form of level scaling which means level isn't as much a barrier. And it's good that you're able to take interest and maintain it with both the main story and side stories, that however doesn't really take away from the fact that it is terrible storytelling and doing something which equates to terrible storytelling is a no-no when the thing your touting the most about your product is story.

Like I said it's incredibly disappointing that with all that money being thrown around and the rather unique approach they seemed to want to take that they wouldn't build the game to be more complimentary to that approach and instead opted for the same old same old which runs in the opposite direction of that approach, it shows a lack of vision and balls. Gah ToR could have been unbelieveably amazing and unique if someone in a leadership role over at BW/EA/LA had a head on his shoulder and a pair in his pants. Such a waste.

I am level 42 and at this point am skipping all the voice acting all together except the class story, i have like 4 or 5 days played, It was cool at first but it is boring now to have all the pointless quests voiced. I play on darth sion, the server is full yet it is a total pain in the ass to get a grp for anything at all, and I am a healer. It needs a grp finder, it also needs a dual spec, respecting is not cheap after doing it a few times and its lame to be stuck in healing spec ALL THE TIME when my character can do both. Its a ok mmo, but so far the mmo part has been lacking everyone is soloing. To be honest I was enjoying DCUO this soon after release more then this. The instances are also so far not very good, yes wow is still better here, which is sad because it is a old game at this point. All in all i can see this being something great IF THEY CHANGE some things and add good instances, because so far they have been lame.

Advid-Gamer

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

I am level 42 and at this point am skipping all the voice acting all together except the class story, i have like 4 or 5 days played, It was cool at first but it is boring now to have all the pointless quests voiced. I play on darth sion, the server is full yet it is a total pain in the ass to get a grp for anything at all, and I am a healer. It needs a grp finder, it also needs a dual spec, respecting is not cheap after doing it a few times and its lame to be stuck in healing spec ALL THE TIME when my character can do both. Its a ok mmo, but so far the mmo part has been lacking everyone is soloing. To be honest I was enjoying DCUO this soon after release more then this. The instances are also so far not very good, yes wow is still better here, which is sad because it is a old game at this point. All in all i can see this being something great IF THEY CHANGE some things and add good instances, because so far they have been lame.

FelipeInside

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"]

I am level 42 and at this point am skipping all the voice acting all together except the class story, i have like 4 or 5 days played, It was cool at first but it is boring now to have all the pointless quests voiced. I play on darth sion, the server is full yet it is a total pain in the ass to get a grp for anything at all, and I am a healer. It needs a grp finder, it also needs a dual spec, respecting is not cheap after doing it a few times and its lame to be stuck in healing spec ALL THE TIME when my character can do both. Its a ok mmo, but so far the mmo part has been lacking everyone is soloing. To be honest I was enjoying DCUO this soon after release more then this. The instances are also so far not very good, yes wow is still better here, which is sad because it is a old game at this point. All in all i can see this being something great IF THEY CHANGE some things and add good instances, because so far they have been lame.

Advid-Gamer

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] But that seems to be the case with you Advid and every MMO I've seen you comment about. You enjoy it but then find it boring quickly down the track. Does it happen with SP games as well?FelipeInside

I agree that with the story-telling they could have done more IN SOME PARTS, I don't agree though that it's terrible storytelling. The story is fine, it's not a best seller book but far from terrible. (there are other games that can be called terrible). As for the game, it's BioWare's first MMO so it's understandable that they took points from WoW and tried to make it similar on some fronts. Didn't WoW take points from Everquest and improve on the parts (BioWare has done the same, taking the formula and improving it). I don't see this as a bad thing necessarily, there are millions playing already and having a ball.FelipeInside

Well I'm not calling the story terrible, just the approach to telling it. If you take a literature or creative writing course one of the the first things you learn is to stay focused on the plot, diverging is bad. If you're writing Little Red Riding Hood you're not going to write in a scene where she foils an armed robbery at a McDonalds in the middle of the plot nor would you praise a writer for doing so. But that's exactly what MMO's do with their stories, at least those based off the Everquest mold. They start you on the plot, force you to stop and take you in a completely different direction for a little bit, then stick you back on the plot only to take you off in a totally other direction a bit later. There's no rhythm, no momentum, no urgency or focus, basicly everything you're taught to create in a story is lacking. And that's fine for most MMO's as they're not putting the story out at center stage, it's there as a guide through the world, maybe there to earn some nice loot and cash. Unfortunatly though BioWare stuck there story out there on center stage under the brightest spotlights, dressed it up with as much glitz as possible and has it out there doing the Can Can. It doesn't make it a poor story, it just means it was poorly executed and certainly an area which deserves critcism.

In regards to the first MMO deal, come on. BioWare is under the thumb of a multi-billion dollar company, a company which has published numerous MMO's by the way, and had a budget which at this point in time would make NASA jealous. You don't think they brought in a number of people who have decades worth of experence combined in MMO development? They weren't playing it safe due to a lack of experience nor did they make glaring missteps due to incompetence. And for the numbers, it's great that people find enjoyment I'm not going to tell anyone they're wrong for having fun. But The CoD series has broken records which extends outside the gaming world, I highly doubt you or anyone is campaigning for it to be regarded and the pinnacle of entertainment for this generation of humanity. Enjoy the game, I'm sure it's good. I'm just upset with what could have been had some risks been taken and some creative thinking been undertaken and not every decision be based on stockholders reactions.

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

.MadCat46

Well I'm not calling the story terrible, just the approach to telling it. If you take a literature or creative writing course one of the the first things you learn is to stay focused on the plot, diverging is bad. If you're writing Little Red Riding Hood you're not going to write in a scene where she foils an armed robbery at a McDonalds in the middle of the plot nor would you praise a writer for doing so. But that's exactly what MMO's do with their stories, at least those based off the Everquest mold. They start you on the plot, force you to stop and take you in a completely different direction for a little bit, then stick you back on the plot only to take you off in a totally other direction a bit later. There's no rhythm, no momentum, no urgency or focus, basicly everything you're taught to create in a story is lacking. And that's fine for most MMO's as they're not putting the story out at center stage, it's there as a guide through the world, maybe there to earn some nice loot and cash. Unfortunatly though BioWare stuck there story out there on center stage under the brightest spotlights, dressed it up with as much glitz as possible and has it out there doing the Can Can. It doesn't make it a poor story, it just means it was poorly executed and certainly an area which deserves critcism.

In regards to the first MMO deal, come on. BioWare is under the thumb of a multi-billion dollar company, a company which has published numerous MMO's by the way, and had a budget which at this point in time would make NASA jealous. You don't think they brought in a number of people who have decades worth of experence combined in MMO development? They weren't playing it safe due to a lack of experience nor did they make glaring missteps due to incompetence. And for the numbers, it's great that people find enjoyment I'm not going to tell anyone they're wrong for having fun. But The CoD series has broken records which extends outside the gaming world, I highly doubt you or anyone is campaigning for it to be regarded and the pinnacle of entertainment for this generation of humanity. Enjoy the game, I'm sure it's good. I'm just upset with what could have been had some risks been taken and some creative thinking been undertaken and not every decision be based on stockholders reactions.

True, but maybe this is an OLD practice? Most TV Shows, Books and Games do this. Stephen King (imo one of the best writers in history), does this a LOT in nearly every book he writes. Yes, sometimes I want to get back to the main story, but he has such a way of doing it that you take interest anyway on the side, then BAM!, he hits you with the main story again. I feel like this in SWTOR sometimes, I'm interested in the side story and then all of a sudden I get sucked back into the main story and it impacts me.

This is true, but let's forget about the MMO and WoW for a second then. SWTOR plays very similar to KOTOR so maybe BioWare (knowing that it was the continuation of KOTOR), just stuck to that formula which they know best (and most of their games play like) and added the MMO elements.

I too would have loved more things, but you have to praise them on what they did right. (and also give them time to expand and fix things)

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

I agree that with the story-telling they could have done more IN SOME PARTS, I don't agree though that it's terrible storytelling. The story is fine, it's not a best seller book but far from terrible. (there are other games that can be called terrible). As for the game, it's BioWare's first MMO so it's understandable that they took points from WoW and tried to make it similar on some fronts. Didn't WoW take points from Everquest and improve on the parts (BioWare has done the same, taking the formula and improving it). I don't see this as a bad thing necessarily, there are millions playing already and having a ball.MadCat46

Well I'm not calling the story terrible, just the approach to telling it. If you take a literature or creative writing course one of the the first things you learn is to stay focused on the plot, diverging is bad. If you're writing Little Red Riding Hood you're not going to write in a scene where she foils an armed robbery at a McDonalds in the middle of the plot nor would you praise a writer for doing so. But that's exactly what MMO's do with their stories, at least those based off the Everquest mold. They start you on the plot, force you to stop and take you in a completely different direction for a little bit, then stick you back on the plot only to take you off in a totally other direction a bit later. There's no rhythm, no momentum, no urgency or focus, basicly everything you're taught to create in a story is lacking. And that's fine for most MMO's as they're not putting the story out at center stage, it's there as a guide through the world, maybe there to earn some nice loot and cash. Unfortunatly though BioWare stuck there story out there on center stage under the brightest spotlights, dressed it up with as much glitz as possible and has it out there doing the Can Can. It doesn't make it a poor story, it just means it was poorly executed and certainly an area which deserves critcism.

In regards to the first MMO deal, come on. BioWare is under the thumb of a multi-billion dollar company, a company which has published numerous MMO's by the way, and had a budget which at this point in time would make NASA jealous. You don't think they brought in a number of people who have decades worth of experence combined in MMO development? They weren't playing it safe due to a lack of experience nor did they make glaring missteps due to incompetence. And for the numbers, it's great that people find enjoyment I'm not going to tell anyone they're wrong for having fun. But The CoD series has broken records which extends outside the gaming world, I highly doubt you or anyone is campaigning for it to be regarded and the pinnacle of entertainment for this generation of humanity. Enjoy the game, I'm sure it's good. I'm just upset with what could have been had some risks been taken and some creative thinking been undertaken and not every decision be based on stockholders reactions.

I'm sorry, but I really, really can't understand why anybody would pay so much money for what essentially amounts to a mediocre single player rpg with a retardedly bad interface and a chat box, not to mention combat that amounts to watching a cartoonishly art directed character beat the air in front of an enemy with a lightsaber until it dies. This isn't fun. There is nothing fun about SWTOR. It's addicting, sure. But it's certainly not fun.

And if any of you actually paid the $5 fee for the preorder, an extra fee for your privilege to give EA money for a game that hasn't yet been released, you are part of the greater sickness that is killing my favorite hobby.

To answer the OP.

I think it is heavily dependent on the cIass (really GS I can't type c l a s s?) you are playing. It seems really hit or miss in terms of the story. I played the beta for 2 months and played Trooper, Consular, Inquisitor, and Scoundrel to 25+ and out of the characters I played the Trooper and Inquisitor had really great stories. The Consular on the other hand was bloody awful and boring. To tell you the truth that is why I didn't end up buying the game. I had planned on playing a healer and can't stomach playing the Scoundrel, not to mention I loved the play-styIe and concept behind the Consular. But the fact that I was skipping dialogue after level 17 or so sealed it for me.

I can deal with the Inq having flashier powers and better looking armor, but having a WAY better storyline too? I wanted to play a healer, and that really only left me with playing Sith, which I didn't want to do.

This game would be fun... if i had never played WoW or GW before and the pvp didnt blow.

Most TV Shows, Books and Games do this. Stephen King (imo one of the best writers in history), does this a LOT in nearly every book he writes. FelipeInside

I'm sorry, but I really, really can't understand why anybody would pay so much money for what essentially amounts to a mediocre single player rpg with a retardedly bad interface and a chat box, not to mention combat that amounts to watching a cartoonishly art directed character beat the air in front of an enemy with a lightsaber until it dies. This isn't fun. There is nothing fun about SWTOR. It's addicting, sure. But it's certainly not fun.

And if any of you actually paid the $5 fee for the preorder, an extra fee for your privilege to give EA money for a game that hasn't yet been released, you are part of the greater sickness that is killing my favorite hobby.

xLittlekillx

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]Most TV Shows, Books and Games do this. Stephen King (imo one of the best writers in history), does this a LOT in nearly every book he writes. Zubinen

I think it doing a bunch of side quests can kill the mood of the main story but thats it. I thought about skipping the side missions but then I wouldn't level up as fast. Also having played final fantasy xi I was used to doing 1 mission than having to wait from a day to a month to do the next one because you needed a group for everything.

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

I'm sorry, but I really, really can't understand why anybody would pay so much money for what essentially amounts to a mediocre single player rpg with a retardedly bad interface and a chat box, not to mention combat that amounts to watching a cartoonishly art directed character beat the air in front of an enemy with a lightsaber until it dies. This isn't fun. There is nothing fun about SWTOR. It's addicting, sure. But it's certainly not fun.

And if any of you actually paid the $5 fee for the preorder, an extra fee for your privilege to give EA money for a game that hasn't yet been released, you are part of the greater sickness that is killing my favorite hobby.

FelipeInside

"Hey, just because you don't like eating crap doesn't mean nobody should like eating crap! Look at us all stuffing these huge turds in our mouths! MMMMM I WISH I COULD PAY MORE FOR THESE TURDS!"

True, but maybe this is an OLD practice? Most TV Shows, Books and Games do this. Stephen King (imo one of the best writers in history), does this a LOT in nearly every book he writes. Yes, sometimes I want to get back to the main story, but he has such a way of doing it that you take interest anyway on the side, then BAM!, he hits you with the main story again. I feel like this in SWTOR sometimes, I'm interested in the side story and then all of a sudden I get sucked back into the main story and it impacts me.FelipeInside

This is true, but let's forget about the MMO and WoW for a second then. SWTOR plays very similar to KOTOR so maybe BioWare (knowing that it was the continuation of KOTOR), just stuck to that formula which they know best (and most of their games play like) and added the MMO elements. I too would have loved more things, but you have to praise them on what they did right. (and also give them time to expand and fix things)

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]

Exactly, but this happens in SP RPG games as well.

Hell, it even happens in TV Shows, where you have Episodes in between which have nothing to do with the main plot. Books too.

I just basically take interest in the side stories as well....so I'm happy and entertained with both the main story and side ones.

FelipeInside

But you're not paying a monthly subscription for single player rpgs.

[QUOTE="vfibsux"][QUOTE="Technomancer82"]

At level 39 I'm also feeling that there is a real pacing issue with the main class story, as I'm spending several hours on side quests before I get to advance my main quest line. I suppose that this is both a limitation on the amount of content that BioWare could create and also to try to encourage you to go try other things, but as a big story fan it just really annoys the heck out of me..

FelipeInside

[QUOTE="vfibsux"][QUOTE="Technomancer82"]

At level 39 I'm also feeling that there is a real pacing issue with the main class story, as I'm spending several hours on side quests before I get to advance my main quest line. I suppose that this is both a limitation on the amount of content that BioWare could create and also to try to encourage you to go try other things, but as a big story fan it just really annoys the heck out of me..

FelipeInside

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

But you're not paying a monthly subscription for single player rpgs.

OgreB

[QUOTE="OgreB"][QUOTE="FelipeInside"] That's relative and has nothing to do with it. You pay less x month and get more content out of an MMO than paying full price for a SP RPG.Elann2008

That's the weirdest rationalization I've ever seen. You do realize that if you're buying 2 games a month, you're getting more games, right?

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"][QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

I'm sorry, but I really, really can't understand why anybody would pay so much money for what essentially amounts to a mediocre single player rpg with a retardedly bad interface and a chat box, not to mention combat that amounts to watching a cartoonishly art directed character beat the air in front of an enemy with a lightsaber until it dies. This isn't fun. There is nothing fun about SWTOR. It's addicting, sure. But it's certainly not fun.

And if any of you actually paid the $5 fee for the preorder, an extra fee for your privilege to give EA money for a game that hasn't yet been released, you are part of the greater sickness that is killing my favorite hobby.

xLittlekillx

"Hey, just because you don't like eating crap doesn't mean nobody should like eating crap! Look at us all stuffing these huge turds in our mouths! MMMMM I WISH I COULD PAY MORE FOR THESE TURDS!"

[QUOTE="FelipeInside"]True, but maybe this is an OLD practice? Most TV Shows, Books and Games do this. Stephen King (imo one of the best writers in history), does this a LOT in nearly every book he writes. Yes, sometimes I want to get back to the main story, but he has such a way of doing it that you take interest anyway on the side, then BAM!, he hits you with the main story again. I feel like this in SWTOR sometimes, I'm interested in the side story and then all of a sudden I get sucked back into the main story and it impacts me.MadCat46

This is true, but let's forget about the MMO and WoW for a second then. SWTOR plays very similar to KOTOR so maybe BioWare (knowing that it was the continuation of KOTOR), just stuck to that formula which they know best (and most of their games play like) and added the MMO elements. I too would have loved more things, but you have to praise them on what they did right. (and also give them time to expand and fix things)

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

[QUOTE="OgreB"] What ? I have gotten way more hours out of most SP RPGs then most MMOs. And you only have to pay for the game once. Having a huge MMO world does not equal fun...and then there is the add on packs that MMOs pop out every few months...which you have to buy or be left behind. Then there is end game ( Until next expansion ) where you spend more time getting a group together to run some dungeon for the billionth time because there is nothing left to do///until the next expansion. Not to mention waiting forever to find some people to do a class quest....just try find a party to run Champion quest in CD in LOTRO ? I finally had to hire a group to do my class quest. I have played a lot of MMOs ( and will probably try this one ) but I get way more for my money buying a SP RPG then MMOs. And even though many MMOs are now free...to get the good stuff you need micro transactions which can add up very very fast. ( I hate micro transactions ) I'd rather pay the premium monthly and get it all...but I'm not going to pay 60 bucks for a game then another 10 on top of that every month. The there is always the mid game tweaking that they do...Champs used to rock in LOTRO ! Next update they are useless. FYI I play other MMOs But just look at how many are still up and running. Not many...xLittlekillx

That's the weirdest rationalization I've ever seen. You do realize that if you're buying 2 games a month, you're getting more games, right?

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

[QUOTE="OgreB"] What ? I have gotten way more hours out of most SP RPGs then most MMOs. And you only have to pay for the game once. Having a huge MMO world does not equal fun...and then there is the add on packs that MMOs pop out every few months...which you have to buy or be left behind. Then there is end game ( Until next expansion ) where you spend more time getting a group together to run some dungeon for the billionth time because there is nothing left to do///until the next expansion. Not to mention waiting forever to find some people to do a class quest....just try find a party to run Champion quest in CD in LOTRO ? I finally had to hire a group to do my class quest. I have played a lot of MMOs ( and will probably try this one ) but I get way more for my money buying a SP RPG then MMOs. And even though many MMOs are now free...to get the good stuff you need micro transactions which can add up very very fast. ( I hate micro transactions ) I'd rather pay the premium monthly and get it all...but I'm not going to pay 60 bucks for a game then another 10 on top of that every month. The there is always the mid game tweaking that they do...Champs used to rock in LOTRO ! Next update they are useless. FYI I play other MMOs But just look at how many are still up and running. Not many...xLittlekillx

That's the weirdest rationalization I've ever seen. You do realize that if you're buying 2 games a month, you're getting more games, right?

While some of the storylines may be awful, I just went five hours playing warzones until they took the servers down. We lost TWICE, out of about 20 matches. Loving it, and got a whole new suit of armor.

[QUOTE="xLittlekillx"]

[QUOTE="Elann2008"] Please don't make me bring out my giant calculator to do the math for you... If a person played only one MMOG, compared to someone who buys 1-2 or MORE SP games a month - Who do you think is paying more per month? Okay, thanks bye.. .

Elann2008

That's the weirdest rationalization I've ever seen. You do realize that if you're buying 2 games a month, you're getting more games, right?

I'm actually enjoying my Warriors storyline. Level 33 and just got of Alderran (sp?) I view it the game as another mmo to play. I've always liked games where I get new pieces of armor and see my character tranform. Can't wait till I start raiding with the guild.

I don't like the GTM however. They should just let search for items, instead of having to go through all those sub catagories. If I know what I want, but don't know what it's a part of, it's a real pain trying to find it. Also, they really need a group finder. I'm a tank and I'm still having troubles finding groups for flashpoints.

What annoys me somewhat is that the class-quests feels like "just another quest".

It would also be cool if quests were longer and bigger and took place on more than one planet occasionally.

Also, the planets don't feel as ambient when it's basically a narrow path.

Well, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one feeling like this.

As to the argument about the pacing issues can also be found in single player RPG's I'd say yes, but to a completely different degree. I completed Mass Effect and Dragon Age in 20-30 hours or so. After playing SWTOR for 30 hours I was level 30 and hadn't even finished chapter 1 of my story. This is not due to the incredibly amount of great story content, but due to the incredible amount of grindy filler stuff that is thrown in to drag out my story.

Again, I fully appreciate why BioWare felt the need to handle the story in this way, namely that it's a MMO and you have to keep the player engaged for a much longer time than in a single player game, but I still think the story experience really suffers as a result.